Vegan Debate

[En]

Do we have any vegans at NamePros?

Anyone want to debate why they believe they have the right to enslave, manipulate, force, bully into submission, and send innocent gentle animals to a slaughterhouse full of uneducated employees that have a career in mass murder?

 

[Haris]

in india people used to not eat cows as they were regarded as holy
but they are still around there

so I dare to say
that your future view
is more or less very unlikely

There are a lot of cow/meat eaters in india,.

 

[Haris]

"There are as many creatures on your body as there are people on Earth."

If you think you aren't killing living things all day long, you're nuts. Just to put it in perspective, there are thousands of mites living just in your eyebrows alone. You can be munching a carrot in the shower feeling great and yet be drowning hundreds of live beings and not even know it!

So if life requires death, no matter what you eat, then maybe this argument is not about what you think it is about. Maybe we are all just assholes looking to point out why other people should be our type of a*hole and not theirs.

Great point.

 

[420domainer]

Just got down reading about the Donner party. Thanks alot guys, this is exactly what I wanted to be doing today!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donner_Party

(veganism vs. cannabalism- will it be the next NP debate?)

 

[JB Lions]

Just got down reading about the Donner party. Thanks alot guys, this is exactly what I wanted to be doing today!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donner_Party

(veganism vs. cannabalism- will it be the next NP debate?)

Pretty good movie out there on this event - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972_Andes_flight_disaster

When it comes down to it, if it's a do this or die situation, most people people will "do this", survival instincts kick in.

If it makes people fell better, go the Buddhist route, where the dead body is just an empty vessel/meat. Remembering seeing this video awhile back, you can search for this title on YouTube, not for the faint at heart. Apparently ground is too hard to bury people in, so monks help the buzzards out-
Buddhist People after death doing with humans body!

 

[frank-germany]

If you think you aren't killing living things all day long, you're nuts. Just to put it in perspective, there are thousands of mites living just in your eyebrows alone.

there are billions of bacteria in your colon

they are eating you
obviously no vegaterians

thats really not the point here


for me its about :
torturing sensible inteligent creatures for as long as they live
and then kill them more or less fast and "painless"
-actually they are very much afraid and feel fear as much as you would-
and then eat them
without urge and without having no alternatives
for the short joy of " but I like the taste "
which I think is disgusting

 

[Haris]

"A nociceptor is a sensory nerve cell that responds to damaging or potentially damaging stimuli by sending signals to the spinal cord and brain. This process, called nociception, usually causes the physical sensation of pain in sentient beings"

When the veins/arteries/whatever in the neck get cut by a knife (animal gets slaughtered), the body can no longer feel pain because the pain signals no longer reach the brain.

We have been told that we must cut those veins and arteries in the neck fast and with a sharp knife so that the animals don't feel much pain. That's the right way to slaughter an animal. But many companies use machines to kill animals which not only hurts the animals but also mixes the meat with excrement, which I don't support at all.

I also want to let you know that I and every sane person whether vegan/vegetarian or not will never support torture of animals during their lives nor at the time of their death.

 

[JB Lions]

there are billions of bacteria in your colon

they are eating you
obviously no vegaterians

thats really not the point here


for me its about :
torturing sensible inteligent creatures for as long as they live
and then kill them more or less fast and "painless"
-actually they are very much afraid and feel fear as much as you would-
and then eat them
without urge and without having no alternatives
for the short joy of " but I like the taste "
which I think is disgusting

Stop eating chicken then. Don't they have alternatives that taste like chicken. You are a meat eater, not a vegetarian or vegan.

 

[frank-germany]

When the veins/arteries/whatever in the neck get cut by a knife (animal gets slaughtered), the body can no longer feel pain because the pain signals no longer reach the brain.

I do not know where you life
but here in germany
animals are put on trucks
and driven to to the slaughterhouses

then they wait in line
and hear and smell the fear of the other animals

they may not feel the pain of the cut

but they feel fear


and they feel fear pain
as they are treated like furnitures while being transported

 

[frank-germany]

Stop eating chicken then. Don't they have alternatives that taste like chicken. You are a meat eater, not a vegetarian or vegan.

yes you are right
I should not eat chicken either

but no matter how you put it
I am a vegetarian

 

[james haw]

in india people used to not eat cows as they were regarded as holy
but they are still around there

so I dare to say
that your future view
is more or less very unlikely

So, we should all stop eating meat and worship the animals? Is that an argument of some kind?

And India is far from the only country to worship such animals. It's just a culture thing. The French eat horse, English do not. So myself being English, do I therefore consider it wrong of the French to eat horse? Of course not, because I have an open mind.





Are you vegetarian/vegan, for the love of animals? No worries
However, in line with how Priyank put it:

Milk products does not lead to death of the animal, and therefore its considered vegetarian.

Do you eat yoghurt, or drink milk? That's ok because an animal is not slaughtered right?

At least animals being slaughtered die in a min or so. Those poor cows above, well, their lives are not so rosy for months/years eh?

Next time you drink your tea or coffee, or glass of milk, or eat your yoghurt, or slurp on that self righteous smoothie instead of your beef burger, think of all those poor cows, crammed together with machines draining them dry all day!


Sorry to be an arse, but the world is bigger with more grey areas than you are willing to see.

I welcome people who make life choices which benefit the greater good. I try always to source good meat where the animals have been treat well, eat free range eggs etc etc. But in this world, it's impossible to not do, eat, or wear something or use some service which has not been created via some terrible means.

 

[ecalc]

the definition of a product being vegetarian or non vegetarian in Jain philosophy is whether it leads to death of a being or not. Milk products does not lead to death of the animal, and therefore its considered vegetarian.

WEST HOLLYWOOD (AP) -- LAPD arrested Leonardo DiCrapio and charged him with aggravated A&B after a scuffle at a local vegetarian supper club late last night. Mr. DiCrapio was dining with friends when someone in his party smelled grilled meat marinated in garlic and rosemary. They quickly spotted fellow celebrity Shawn Penn and associates seated nearby gnawing sans utensils on a butterflied leg of lamb the size of a Chevy small block. Mr. Penn explained between sips of Ouzo that the donor sheep was alive and well after suffering a broken leg and life saving amputation, punctuating his comments with: “Nothing died so I’m still a vegetarian you losers.” Darrell Hanna, passing by outside, overheard Penn, raced in and dove into the lamb head first screaming: “I haven’t had a square meal in 30 years!” The board of health quickly shuttered the building and transported all patrons to local hospitals for olfactory treatment and PTSD counseling.

 

[frank-germany]

So, we should all stop eating meat and worship the animals? Is that an argument of some kind?

feeling their pain
and respecting them as beeings
and treating them in a way
so if we eat them
they at least have a good life
until their are killed

is a realistic and human aim

and is not worshipping

 

[james haw]

In terms of us obtaining something which was created in some way via mistreatment, such as inhumane cattle treatment for us to eat meat, surely the same morals and care is extended to humans? So, what about slave labour? We ALL do something every day that is linked to it.

What about homeless people in the very same cities where you and your friends are getting drunk, or you and your partner enjoying a meal in your warm cosy house. Right next to someone dying in the streets from malnutrition and hypothermia.

As a vegan/vegetarian saving the animals, what are you doing about those poor humans?

You spend you money on unnecessary things - sweets, clothes you didn't really need, some treat desert, that nice big new TV even though the old one wasn't terrible.
Someone somewhere is suffering and starving to death while you enjoy that TV! Is that ok then? Someone likely suffered FOR you to enjoy that TV via slave labour to make it! Is it ok for people to suffer for the things you do and use, as long as cattle are not being killed inhumanely?

• Don't wear most high street clothes or shoes as they were likely put together by some poor barely paid overseas kids or low paid workers somewhere.

• Sat at your PC/Laptop reading this? Slave labour probably made it. Human cruelty is just as bad as animal cruelty right? So, you will sell your PC right? Of course you will.

• Drive a car, or even a bicycle? Go see how your rubber gets obtained before it becomes your tyre!

• Enjoying your vegetables instead of meat? Of course. And all those workers picking them are paid so much they all live in mansions. Wait, no, I got that wrong. They get paid less than enough to live on, to pay for their tiny hut with no toilet, and live in severe poverty called slave labour!

My original point stands - about if we all stopped eating meat there'd be no cows, sheep, pigs, chickens, etc. Not everywhere is like India, most countries only (sadly) care about their income, not treat it as sacred.

So, they would not exist if it weren't for meat eaters. Do you want to thank me for that, for giving them a life? Or...debate some more?

Before you debate some more...Would you never buy a PC or laptop again knowing it was made via slave labour? Or, like meat eaters, do you just turn a blind eye and hope (sincerely) that the powers that be do something about it!

 

[frank-germany]

But in this world, it's impossible to not do, eat, or wear something or use some service which has not been created via some terrible means.

you are right

but I don't want to forget that is not the optimal situation
and I will take any chance to change it to the better

 

[james haw]

you are right

but I don't want to forget that is not the optimal situation
and I will take any chance to change it to the better

Fine, but my point is essentially that people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones

 

[frank-germany]

In terms of us obtaining something which was created in some way via mistreatment, such as inhumane cattle treatment for us to eat meat, surely the same morals and care is extended to humans? So, what about slave labour? We ALL do something every day that is linked to it.

there are a lot of things that are unperfect

but none of those makes any of the others
less undesireable


basically
you are trolling

 

[frank-germany]

Fine, but my point is essentially that people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones

you are right
at least they should be very carefully while throwing ..

 

[james haw]

there are a lot of things that are unperfect
but none of those makes any of the others less undesireable

Of course, so what? Was that not kinda my point?

basically
you are trolling

You think my post is trolling? It was just my opinion.
Given my posts and likes, and a post which was at least vaguely educated, it's sad you called me a troll.

 

[Brands.International]

I am not vegan, as I like meat

 

[hidefind]

Sorry to be an arse, but the world is bigger with more grey areas than you are willing to see.

I welcome people who make life choices which benefit the greater good. I try always to source good meat where the animals have been treat well, eat free range eggs etc etc. But in this world, it's impossible to not do, eat, or wear something or use some service which has not been created via some terrible means.

All these terrible things would stop if people quit subscribing to their services. To throw your hands up and say, "it's never going to stop because nobody else will, so I'll just be a good little sheep and follow the herd" is weak as fuck - simple as that. Excuse the language but hopefully we can be adults here. I COMMEND people who have done their research, understand the damage they're doing and make the sacrifices the other ostriches are unwilling to make. They should be admired, not convinced they're up against a rigged system. Every time you pass on a meal with meat, you're decreasing the demand for these factory farms. That's not nothing. If everyone did that, the market would change drastically.

 

[JB Lions]

All these terrible things would stop if people quit subscribing to their services. To throw your hands up and say, "it's never going to stop because nobody else will, so I'll just be a good little sheep and follow the herd" is weak as f*ck - simple as that. Excuse the language but hopefully we can be adults here. I COMMEND people who have done their research, understand the damage they're doing and make the sacrifices the other ostriches are unwilling to make. They should be admired, not convinced they're up against a rigged system. Every time you pass on a meal with meat, you're decreasing the demand for these factory farms. That's not nothing. If everyone did that, the market would change drastically.

What part of people like to eat meat do you struggle with? Maybe we should start eating preachy Vegans, make the world a truly better place.

 

[hidefind]

What part of people like to eat meat do you struggle with?

That one's easy: definately the "how we kill animals to satisfy the demand part".

And let me be clear - if they hung you by a rotary mechanical machine by your legs and slit your throat, I'd weep for you as well. That's not how we should be treating life. We used to do a lot of things we don't do anymore because it's wrong. Selfishness wins the day unfortunately, but that's what it is at it's root.

 

[JB Lions]

That one's easy: definately the "how we kill animals to satisfy the demand part".

And let me be clear - if they hung you by a rotary mechanical machine by your legs and slit your throat, I'd weep for you as well. That's not how we should be treating life. We used to do a lot of things we don't do anymore because it's wrong. Selfishness wins the day unfortunately, but that's what it is at it's root.

It's not wrong to eat meat, we were meant to. Is your issue just in all meat eating or certain meat eating, based on how we came about it?

 

[hidefind]

It's not wrong to eat meat, we were meant to. Is your issue just in all meat eating or certain meat eating, based on how we came about it?

We were given the tools we needed to survive but we're well beyond that now. We obviously haven't evolved beyond that primitive thought and an ever increasing demand has lead to factory farming to satisfy the market. It's sick what they're doing to those animals. If you're brave enough, youtube "undercover factory farm" and at least understand the system you support. There's a guided effort to separate you (the consumer) with the source (the producer) - because anyone with a soul wouldn't support these practices. Some would sure, but again, it all circles back to selfishness.

 

[JB Lions]

We were given the tools we needed to survive but we're well beyond that now. We obviously haven't evolved beyond that primitive thought and an ever increasing demand has lead to factory farming to satisfy the market. It's sick what they're doing to those animals. If you're brave enough, youtube "undercover factory farm" and at least understand the system you support. There's a guided effort to separate you (the consumer) with the source (the producer) - because anyone with a soul wouldn't support these practices. Some would sure, but again, it all circles back to selfishness.

That didn't answer my question. If the animals were treated nicely, to your standards, would it be ok then? Or are you against all meat eating, no matter what.