Vegan Debate

[En]

Do we have any vegans at NamePros?

Anyone want to debate why they believe they have the right to enslave, manipulate, force, bully into submission, and send innocent gentle animals to a slaughterhouse full of uneducated employees that have a career in mass murder?

 

[ZapNano]

Science= plants and animals= all living things.

 

[championshipforum]

I appreciate and respect why people choose to be vegan.

To the vegetarians that preach that eating meat is wrong but are happy to eat dairy, i find them types to be hypocrites.

 

[baseballworld]

If science is to plants and plants can be illegal makes my newer domains Science Laws make sense now.

 

[JB Lions]

The problem with "debating" preachy type Vegans is that they either knowingly lie or post nonsense. As an example:

Show attachment 38515

That's not true. Broccoli does not have more protein than beef. And you have to eat a lot more to get the same amount of calories. Won't even get into the lack of amino acids and other stuff.

Or en linking to an article but leaving out "As would be expected, the risk was found to be most pronounced among people who also engaged in other unhealthy activities, including having a history of smoking, drinking heavily or being obese."

or PriYank posting this:

Approximately 25 gallons of water are needed to produce 1 pound of wheat. Around 2,500 gallons of water are needed to produce 1 pound of meat.

Which is some more bs. As if Google doesn't exist and you can go find real sources.

And people who are "meat eaters" doesn't mean they only eat meat obviously. They can eat vegetables as well, have a more balanced diet so they don't end up on domain forums making misery loves company type posts.

I'm going to have hamburgers later and will enjoy every bite.

 

[enlytend]

This thread sounds like it was spun from straight a peta pamphlet . (Don't get me started on that bunch.)

Im a long time vegetarian, I'm not vegan, I respect other people's choices and in return expect them to respect mine. We're all on our own path.

That said,

• Not everyone can eat all plant protein. Some people are allergic to soy or nuts. Some people are gluten intolerant. People with conditions like Crohns have to keep vegetable intake to a minimum. Most plants, while they have protein, do not have complete amino acids, making the protein less usable.
• Vegan foods, especially organic foods, can be expensive. The higher the demand,the higher the prices go. Over the years I've watched several one-time vegetarian staples become popular and the prices get crazy accordingly. Quinoa, for example. used to be cheap, then it got popular.
• The production of meat for food is a huge industry, many people depend on it to put food on their own tables. Abolish the industry and you put people out of jobs, human families suffer. Economies suffer.
• As a food source, meat and dairy production is less susceptible to damage from unexpected weather conditions - heat, frost, drought, excessive rain, and the like.
• Having all the animals running around in the sun like a small happy family farm is a nice picture. It would also dramatically raise the prices of food. A lot of low income families subsist on eggs because they're cheap and nutritious. Lower productivity in the industry and the price goes up, possibly out of reach for those families.
• Many food animals are raised in restrictive conditions and don't have good lives. Many humans are born into dismal conditions and lead sad lives too. Some babies die of disease or starvation before reaching adulthood - at least the animals are fed. Maybe they all committed heinous deeds in a past life and this is their destiny.

 

[baseballworld]

Yeah it could go to peta but we also have to realize everyone has there own opinion on things.

 

[LER]

I think artificial meat is going to be a big deal in the next decade. I predict that when the price falls below the real thing, all the fast food chains will start serving it. People might say they don't want to eat fake, imitation meat, but they will. It's just a matter of marketing.

Fun fact: the former CEO of McDonalds last year joined the board of Beyond Meat (google it).

 

[baseballworld]

I think artificial meat is going to be a big deal in the next decade. I predict that when the price falls below the real thing, all the fast food chains will start serving it. People might say they don't want to eat fake, imitation meat, but they will. It's just a matter of marketing.

Fun fact: the former CEO of McDonalds last year joined the board of Beyond Meat (google it).

Kind of weird for a guy that makes a huge salary based on it. Guess mcdonalds could be looking for a future in new products to offer the vegan customers happy.

 

[JB Lions]

I think artificial meat is going to be a big deal in the next decade. I predict that when the price falls below the real thing, all the fast food chains will start serving it. People might say they don't want to eat fake, imitation meat, but they will. It's just a matter of marketing.

Fun fact: the former CEO of McDonalds last year joined the board of Beyond Meat (google it).

It's not a matter of marketing, it's a matter of taste. It doesn't taste like real meat, marketing isn't going to change that.

If anything, things are headed more to quality meat. If you just take a look at hamburgers/fast food restaurants and the direction that's going. Some of them dealing with some of the issues some vegans have. How animals are treated, use of hormones etc.

You mentioned McDonalds, see some of the changes due to consumer pressure/market:

http://www.businessinsider.com/mcdonalds-is-making-a-major-change-to-its-hamburger-buns-2016-8

 

[frank-germany]

I think artificial meat is going to be a big deal in the next decade. I predict that when the price falls below the real thing, all the fast food chains will start serving it. People might say they don't want to eat fake, imitation meat, but they will. It's just a matter of marketing.

Fun fact: the former CEO of McDonalds last year joined the board of Beyond Meat (google it).

in germany mcdonnalds serves vegatarian hamburgers
and dishes which contain only salades

they really care only for the money

 

[Winfluence]

Vegan here. But I don't hassle people about their diet. Too many vegans have given the term a bad rep. The machine that is mainstream culture has too firm of a grip on society for most to be able to change, even they want to. I share videos like this with friends and most say they want to become vegan but can't imagine a lifestyle "eating broccoli for dinner", etc.

I do recommend this video as it shows how it's hypocritical to be vegetarian but not vegan.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=602137903278535

 

[hidefind]

Regardless of where you stand on the issue, eating animals the way we do in the US is unsustainable. Animal agriculture has one of the largest land and water footprints on the planet, and the methane produced by livestock waste is out of hand (~75 kilos annually per dairy cow). They require much more food grown annually to sustain than their human counterparts.

There's an excellent documentary that touches on this called "Cowspiracy". Because USDA has such strong political influence, very little research is done on these due to the financial implications this knowledge could have. You can be apathetic and to each their own- just know your selfishness and ignorance is hurting the earth.

 

[frank-germany]

It's not a matter of marketing, it's a matter of taste. It doesn't taste like real meat, marketing isn't going to change that.

1) in germany we have soy food that can be served as if it was burgers
and I bet you won't taste a difference
-meat doesn't taste much w/o spices and salt
and w/o the internal sugar roasted while grilling it -

2) artifical meat is going to be a very different kind of meat
as they are right now in the process of

cloning only the meat cells

so they can reproduce only the cells
which results in real muscle meat
that never had any kind of consciousness or ever felt any pain


hope they do it soon

 

[Winfluence]

Vegans eat good! There are many ways to prepare vegan meals that are just as good and tasty as meat. Going vegan doesn't mean broccoli for dinner. Let it be known lol...

 

[LER]

It's not a matter of marketing, it's a matter of taste. It doesn't taste like real meat, marketing isn't going to change that.

If anything, things are headed more to quality meat. If you just take a look at hamburgers/fast food restaurants and the direction that's going. Some of them dealing with some of the issues some vegans have. How animals are treated, use of hormones etc.

You mentioned McDonalds, see some of the changes due to consumer pressure/market:

http://www.businessinsider.com/mcdonalds-is-making-a-major-change-to-its-hamburger-buns-2016-8

That's a good point. Consumer pressure goes a long way. "It tastes the same but without the stuff you don't like." If they develop an artificial burger that tastes exactly like beef, I think a similar thing might happen.

 

[frank-germany]

there is another huge impact we as humans all share equaly:
the meat industrie is removing the rain forest from this planet
that has a huge effect on the climate on this planet
we all breath the same air

trees produce it

if you take away the rain forest
you will see in drastic climate changes

2015 beeing the hotest year since weather being reported
-2016 may be even hotter -

so n the end
eating burgers destroys the rain forest

 

[LER]

Well anyway, I'm going to go read some domain-related threads.

 

[frank-germany]

We're at the top of the food chain. Animals eat other animals, that's nature, how it's supposed to be. It's not pretty how we get our meat but neither is a lion devouring an impala.

you are right

if you look at nature there is a constant eating of other life forms

but:
the lion has no choice
so do other wild life forms

the lion has only the impala that he can eat

humans do have the choice
we may either eat meat or plants
it's up to you

our teeth are build in the same way as the teeth of porks
they are very simular

but the lion has completely different teeth
he will either die or eat impalas

you won't die if you stopp eating meat

 

[JB Lions]

you are right

if you look at nature there is a constant eating of other life forms

but:
the lion has no choice
so do other wild life forms

the lion has only the impala that he can eat

humans do have the choice
we may either eat meat or plants
it's up to you

our teeth are build in the same way as the teeth of porks
they are very simular

but the lion has completely different teeth
he will either die or eat impalas

you won't die if you stopp eating meat

Right, we have a choice. I don't disagree you can live being a vegan. But back to choice, most choose to eat meat. In the U.S. Vegans are not even 1%.

"The just-released “Vegetarianism in America” study, published by Vegetarian Times (vegetariantimes.com), shows that 3.2 percent of U.S. adults, or 7.3 million people, follow a vegetarian-based diet. Approximately 0.5 percent, or 1 million, of those are vegans, who consume no animal products at all."

Regardless of where you stand on the issue, eating animals the way we do in the US is unsustainable. Animal agriculture has one of the largest land and water footprints on the planet, and the methane produced by livestock waste is out of hand (~75 kilos annually per dairy cow). They require much more food grown annually to sustain than their human counterparts.

There's an excellent documentary that touches on this called "Cowspiracy". Because USDA has such strong political influence, very little research is done on these due to the financial implications this knowledge could have. You can be apathetic and to each their own- just know your selfishness and ignorance is hurting the earth.

When you watch stuff like that, you should also Google Cowspiracy Debunked or terms like that. If you want to get a better picture. Because again, with Vegans, it's usually animals above everything, even telling the truth. Sometimes people play very loose with the figures. Some of it might be correct, some not.

Vegans and such keep hoping to make some product that tastes like meat, to this point I haven't seen it. I don't think they quite understand it's just not going to happen for most people, they enjoy eating meat/good food.

 

[frank-germany]

Ketchup is concentrated blood of dead tomatoes.

the tomatoe plant produces its fruits -the tomatoe- for the only pupose that someone will eat it sooner or later

thats why it tries to make them look as beautifull as possible
so someone wants to eat it

as the seeds then then be spread into the world
- at least that's what the tomatoe "thinks" will happen.

so the tomatoe welcomes you
when you want to eat it


a cow will have fear when its taken to the slaugherhouse
and it will be sad when it smells the death of its compaignons

thats a completely different story
don't you think so?

 

[Winfluence]

Vegan here. But I don't hassle people about their diet. The machine that is mainstream culture has too firm of a grip on society for most to be able to change, even they want to. Too many vegans have given the term a bad rep. I share videos like this with friends and most say they want to become vegan but can't imagine a lifestyle "eating broccoli for dinner", etc.

I do recommend this video as it shows how it's hypocritical to be vegetarian but not vegan.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=602137903278535

Just watched this vid again...wow....gotta see the whole thing....it's worth it!

 

[frank-germany]

Right, we have a choice. I don't disagree you can live being a vegan. But back to choice, most choose to eat meat. In the U.S. Vegans are not even 1%..

thats why I bother to post here

 

[JB Lions]

thats why I bother to post here

It's not that better in Germany - There were an estimated 800,000 vegans (1%) in Germany as of 2013.

 

[frank-germany]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultured_meat

The culturing of stem cells from animals has been possible since the 1990s, including the production of small quantities of tissue which could, in principle be cooked and eaten. NASA has been conducting experiments since 2001, producing cultured meat from turkey cells.[6][7] The first edible sample was produced by the NSR/Touro Applied BioScience Research Consortium in 2002:goldfish cells grown to resemble fish fillets.[8][9][10]

In 2008, PETA offered a $1 million prize to the first company to bring lab-grown chicken meat to consumers by 2012

On August 5, 2013, the world's first lab-grown burger was cooked and eaten at a news conference in London. Scientists from Maastricht University in the Netherlands, led by professor Mark Post, had taken stem cells from a cow and grown them into strips of muscle which they then combined to make a burger. The burger was cooked by chef Richard McGeown of Couch's Great House Restaurant, Polperro, Cornwall, and tasted by critics Hanni Ruetzler, a food researcher from the Future Food Studio and Josh Schonwald.[3]Ruetzler stated,

There is really a bite to it, there is quite some flavour with the browning. I know there is no fat in it so I didn't really know how juicy it would be, but there is quite some intense taste; it's close to meat, it's not that juicy, but the consistency is perfect. This is meat to me... It's really something to bite on and I think the look is quite similar.[22]

Ruetzler added that even in a blind trial she would have taken the product for meat rather than a soya copy.[22]

 

[frank-germany]

It's not that bet

ter in Germany - There were an estimated 800,000 vegans (1%) in Germany as of 2013.

vegans are a narrow group within the group of vegatarians

most people here are vegatarians not vegans

( vegans don't drink milk / eat eggs / vegetarians do )

I am not a vegan