Vegan Debate

[En]

Do we have any vegans at NamePros?

Anyone want to debate why they believe they have the right to enslave, manipulate, force, bully into submission, and send innocent gentle animals to a slaughterhouse full of uneducated employees that have a career in mass murder?

 

[JB Lions]

Do we have any vegans at NamePros?

Anyone want to debate why they believe they have the right to enslave, manipulate, force, bully into submission, and send innocent gentle animals to a slaughterhouse full of uneducated employees that have a career in mass murder?

We're at the top of the food chain. Animals eat other animals, that's nature, how it's supposed to be. It's not pretty how we get our meat but neither is a lion devouring an impala. Meat is a good source of protein. You deny your nature by not eating meat. Or, it just tastes good. Had a nice 13 oz ribeye today. And what's to debate? Eat what you want. I don't try to convert vegans into meat eaters but it happens the other way around with some. I think with some meat in their diet, they would be less grumpy.

*had an ex that was a vegan, wouldn't even use silverware if it touched meat. And it wasn't an issue.

 

[Yuri Kt]

Meat is murder, cheese is genocide.

Ketchup is concentrated blood of dead tomatoes.

 

[En]

 

[Priyank]

“I do not want to make my stomach a graveyard of dead animals.”

 

[Priyank]

 

[Subc0nci0us]

If i slaughter and eat my dog, people will probably stone me to death and then go eat a pig or a cow while discussing how cruel i was. Why do we discriminate between animals? Puppies and kittens are cute so we spare their lives? I am sure they taste just as good.

This is a very good read even for meat lovers: "Eating Animals" by Jonathan Safran Foer

 

[ikhub]

 

[staringatascreen]

I can't pass up a good vegan debate...

• Beef is consumed 77.8 million times each day across America.
• Beef is the #1 food source for Protein, Vitamin B12 and Zinc! Beef is also the #3 food source of iron behind fortified cereal and grains. 12

The U.S. Government does everything within it's power to make sure that animals are put down in the most humane way possible. Those that don't follow the guidelines will be fined and possibly shut down.

It is what it is and isn't going to change..

None of this is true.
Ok. Number one is true. But Hitler killed 3 million Jews. Still doesn't make it right...


Secondly, the damn protein thing. When did people start coming up with "plants don't have protein"? An overwhelming majority of the protein you eat (from meat or otherwise) during the day is excess and gets excreted. You don't need a lot of protein. Unless you're a body builder, in which case, it's better to get vegan protein because it doesn't contain cholesterol and loads of unsaturated fats. (PS the only male US weightlifter at the Olympics was vegan... but where does he get his protein?? smh) Vitamin B12 is not inherent to beef. It comes from bacteria and is easily synthesized. And yes, contrary to meat eating beliefs, certain non-animal sources carry B12. And again, you don't need much of it. And Zinc. Come on. Spinach, bro. And again... how much Zinc do you think you need?

And the US Govt definitely DOES NOT make sure animals are put down in the most humane way possible. Watch some "humane" slaughterhouse videos. Meat is a massive cash crop. Why would they regulate one of the most powerful food lobbies? They wouldn't. (The US government also does everything within its power to make sure drugs don't exist.... but they do.)

Simply put, if we are the true "evolved" species, we should be able to figure out how to survive in the most "evolved" methods possible. That involves making as little impact as possible to an already fragile ecosystem. Which we can do. If we stop being greedy about "yummy tasting food".

But yeah, you can eat meat. You're totally allowed to. But it would be nice if you understood why you were eating meat. It'd be nice if people could examine their own greed. Self-awareness is a good thing and something us "evolved" beings should exercise once in a while.

PS... we are not on top of the food chain. Go try and kill a deer with your bare hands. Then try and eat it raw. First question: How easy was that? Second question: How do you feel? I'm willing to bet: Not easy; Not good.

 

[hidefind]

But some people want to eat meat. The solution is not cheaper easier to source alternatives, it's to stop the inhumane treatment.


Just like slave labour made your PC, but you still use it. Why? This is not rhetorical.

Regarding eating meat - to each their own but machines make laptops now primarily, humans don't individually install all the components inside the chassis. Even if they did, it's apples and oranges and a topic for a new thread. I was never big on Apple personally, but I imagine their sales suffered when the story surrounding suicide nets at the sweat shops broke. I think the same would happen to meat sales if you knew the history behind the ground you buy at the grocer. Obviously it wouldn't go away completely, but I'd be willing to bet a more informed consumer would lead to a major decline in demand and associated health risks. To me the choice is easy because it's a win-win-win. My diet is murder-free, I feel great, and I'm not contributing to a major factor that's damaging our environment. I hope I don't come across preachy - I'm far from infallible and really try not to judge - just trying to inform. Away from this forum I very much subscribe to a "to each their own" philosophy in life, but this contradicts another that I also follow "live and let live".

Thanks for the good conversation though. You're by far the most civil and mature group I've had this discussion with - on both sides of the issue.

 

[ivey]

I think if you like meat you eat meat. If you don't like meet you eat broccoli.

You can argue for how animals are treated, but not over them being a food source for us.
I'm am not for animal cruelty etc... but killing an animal for the purpose of food is good.

 

[En]

1. Several studies show that a plant-based diet increases the body’s metabolism, causing the body to burn calories up to 16% faster than the body would on a meat-based diet for at least the first 3 hours after meals.j
2. A number of researchers argue that while the human body is capable of digesting meat, our bodies are actually designed to be herbivores. For example, the human molars are similar to those of an herbivore, flat and blunt, which make them good for grinding, not gnashing and tearing.

No one needs to eat meat, it's just how most were born and educated. It's all they know, they've never tried anything else.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...-expectancy-eggs-dairy-research-a7168036.html

 

[korganian]

I have not eaten a bite of any animal meat for the past 3 years since my daughter started me watching documentaries about how the poor animals are raised in the US. It's not just the cruelty, it is also because there is no way that animals raised that way could possibly be healthy to eat.

Chicken is the most popular meat. Chickens are now raised packed together in huge buildings with no natural light. They pump the chickens full of hormones that cause their breasts to develop rapidly to twice their natural size (because most people like white meat better) before their legs even develop yet. So the chickens can't even walk and never even see any sunlight in their poor miserable lives.

Another thing to consider is that animal proteins are not easily used by humans. Plant based food is much easier for our bodies to digest. Over two thirds of the energy of a person with a typical diet is used just to digest what has been eaten. Natural non GMO vegetables, fruits, nuts, and berries will give you more energy and extend your life.

 

[baseballworld]

I had a feeling this thread would eventually pop up.

 

[LER]

I think artificial meat is going to be a big deal in the next decade. I predict that when the price falls below the real thing, all the fast food chains will start serving it. People might say they don't want to eat fake, imitation meat, but they will. It's just a matter of marketing.

Fun fact: the former CEO of McDonalds last year joined the board of Beyond Meat (google it).

 

[En]

An impala is a free animal. Lions are just eating them to survive due to their evolutionary path. They have no other choice.

Humans have evolved to the point where they can produce whatever types of food they want to eat (or at least some have that luxury, I'm sure you do).

There is no comparison to the horrific nature that humans have inflicted on animals. For all we know, the way humans have treated the other lifeforms of planet Earth, they are the most evil beings in the entire universe.

 

[JB Lions]

So when an impala gets torn to shreds, that's not horrific to them? It's ok, because they're "free"?

"they want to eat" many like to eat meat, choose to and do so. You choose something else, and that's fine.

 

[Priyank]

1. Several studies show that a plant-based diet increases the body’s metabolism, causing the body to burn calories up to 16% faster than the body would on a meat-based diet for at least the first 3 hours after meals.j
2. A number of researchers argue that while the human body is capable of digesting meat, our bodies are actually designed to be herbivores. For example, the human molars are similar to those of an herbivore, flat and blunt, which make them good for grinding, not gnashing and tearing.

 

[En]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/17269...illed-with-potentially-fatal-e-coli-bacteria/

Not to mention the danger that these mindless zombie meat-eaters are inflicting upon us :P

 

[ivey]

You should see the way they slaughter these vegetables.. Angry machines ripping through fields, machetes slicing and dicing.. I mean these vegetables are living too????

 

[Yuri Kt]

Show attachment 38518

Matter of taste, I guess

 

[frank-germany]

Already went over it. It tastes good, I like to eat meat, just like other people who eat meat. See other reasons in my first post. That's not changing. Dying is usually not pretty. Whether it's the way we get our meat, or getting torn to shreds. It's a losing battle you're trying to fight, and I get it, it's for the love of animals, but losing battle nonetheless. Meat eaters don't care.

"Meat eaters don't care."
you mean: you don't care


"It tastes good,"
that is a very poor argument


"Dying is usually not pretty. "
its not about dying or killing
it about living

it's about that an animal deserves a good life
if you plan to eat it

and here the story starts to become really ugly
-but of course you don't care-

 

[staringatascreen]

Matter of taste, I guess

Animals are not products. They are living creatures. They have intelligence and sentience. If you ever ate a human and thought it tasted good, would you actively kill more humans to satisfy that taste?

I respect vegan's decisions, but it would be lovely if they respected our decisions too. What I don't like is that a small part of the vegan group is actively forcing their opinions in the face of meat eaters.

I see an overlap with religious extremists. A lot of religious people are very respectable, have noble thoughts and respect other's opinions. However, a small group who cannot accept another opinion can ruin the percention of the total group.

Vegan's respect your decisions too. It's true. The "preachy vegan" is usually a response to the "preachy meat eater". You're also going to get a distorted message via the internet where things like intonation, sarcasms, and subtleties are not apparent.

Secondly, there are some radical fallacies here. First and foremost is the idea that because your ideas are challenged means that the person(s) challenging them is somehow "wrong". If you truly accepted the opinions of others, as you claim, you'd also accept their opinions on how to actively pursue their chosen opinion.

Next, just replace "vegan" with "non-murder" and your sentence reads like this : "I respect non-murderer's decisions, but it would be lovely if they respected our decisions too. What I don't like is that a small part of the non-murder group is actively forcing their opinions in the face of murderes." Sound ridiculous? (Note: I'm not trying to say you're a murderer, I'm just using a less socially acceptable example to point out the logical fallacy with an extendable analogy.)

Finally, your ability to "not accept the opinion" of a "small group who cannot accept another opinion" is a large part of the irony here.

We aren't talking about whether or not eating one thing is wrong; we're talking about willingly taking the life of another being for our own self-interest... ie greed.

But as you say:

I treat both animals and humans the way I would like to be treated. However, I like to eat meat, so I do eat meat.

I'm going to assume you don't allow someone to enslave, torture, and murder another human on your behalf for the sake of your own cannibalistic exploits. Just an assumption though... unless you're a psychopath.

 

[Yuri Kt]

Animals are not products. They are living creatures. They have intelligence and sentience. If you ever ate a human and thought it tasted good, would you actively kill more humans to satisfy that taste?
.

We, humans, kill other humans even without eating their bodies. If you're part of "golden milliard" it's probably because your grandgrandparents were more successful in killing and conquering other humans.

 

[baseballworld]

Wow this thread seemed to have escalated really fast for no apparent reason at all really. We all saw this coming the minute it was created. Lets face it some like to eat meat and some like to toss the salad now move on.

 

[tiawalling]

Old Indian saying they say...