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Vegan Debate

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Do we have any vegans at NamePros?

Anyone want to debate why they believe they have the right to enslave, manipulate, force, bully into submission, and send innocent gentle animals to a slaughterhouse full of uneducated employees that have a career in mass murder?
 
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As a matter of fact I save a lot of money leaving meat out of my meals and I can tell you it's getting better all the time. When I first started which wasn't that long ago (5 years), alternatives were expensive and difficult to find. Over the past few years there's been a huge spike in availability and this is only going to get better in time.
But some people want to eat meat. The solution is not cheaper easier to source alternatives, it's to stop the inhumane treatment.


Just like slave labour made your PC, but you still use it. Why? This is not rhetorical.
 
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But some people want to eat meat. The solution is not cheaper easier to source alternatives, it's to stop the inhumane treatment.


Just like slave labour made your PC, but you still use it. Why? This is not rhetorical.

Regarding eating meat - to each their own but machines make laptops now primarily, humans don't individually install all the components inside the chassis. Even if they did, it's apples and oranges and a topic for a new thread. I was never big on Apple personally, but I imagine their sales suffered when the story surrounding suicide nets at the sweat shops broke. I think the same would happen to meat sales if you knew the history behind the ground you buy at the grocer. Obviously it wouldn't go away completely, but I'd be willing to bet a more informed consumer would lead to a major decline in demand and associated health risks. To me the choice is easy because it's a win-win-win. My diet is murder-free, I feel great, and I'm not contributing to a major factor that's damaging our environment. I hope I don't come across preachy - I'm far from infallible and really try not to judge - just trying to inform. Away from this forum I very much subscribe to a "to each their own" philosophy in life, but this contradicts another that I also follow "live and let live".

Thanks for the good conversation though. You're by far the most civil and mature group I've had this discussion with - on both sides of the issue.
 
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"....a more informed consumer would lead to a major decline in demand and associated health risks."

Well said. This applies to so many things these days. It is amazing how quickly humans have complexified their daily life, compared to 30 years ago.
 
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But some people want to eat meat. The solution is not cheaper easier to source alternatives, it's to stop the inhumane treatment.


Just like slave labour made your PC, but you still use it. Why? This is not rhetorical.

The distinction between want to and need to is important - humans can make choices.

You could argue that in nature animals don't use PCs so we shouldn't either. Or you could argue that because we have fingers we were made to use laptops.
 
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Human beings are atrocious. That is where to start. We should all admit that we are failing the earth miserably and that life on earth would be better off without humans. To not admit something so obvious and simple is to reinforce the problem, that the earth is here for us to use and abuse to our liking.
 
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Being raised on a farm we always treated our animals good, free range and cracked corn. I don't like when I see cruelty to animals, but believe God has given us the answer, sorry about preaching, but my belief system is based on the Bible, I try and make all my decisions based on it. It took me a long time to come to the conclusion that there was a time to kill, serving in the military. I am thankful I never had too. But here is what God says to Noah after the flood

Genesis 9New International Version (NIV)
God’s Covenant With Noah

9 Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth. The fear and dread of you will fall on all the beasts of the earth, and on all the birds in the sky, on every creature that moves along the ground, and on all the fish in the sea; they are given into your hands.3 Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you.C)'> Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.D)'>
 
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Genesis 9New International Version (NIV)
God’s Covenant With Noah

9 Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth. The fear and dread of you will fall on all the beasts of the earth, and on all the birds in the sky, on every creature that moves along the ground, and on all the fish in the sea; they are given into your hands.3 Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you.C)'> Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.D)'>

God sounds like a d*ck.
 
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Anyone want to debate why they believe they have the right to enslave, manipulate, force, bully into submission, and send innocent gentle animals to a slaughterhouse...



Being raised on a farm we always treated our animals good, free range and cracked corn. I don't like when I see cruelty to animals, but believe God has given us the answer, sorry about preaching, but my belief system is based on the Bible, I try and make all my decisions based on it. It took me a long time to come to the conclusion that there was a time to kill, serving in the military. I am thankful I never had too. But here is what God says to Noah after the flood

Genesis 9New International Version (NIV)
God’s Covenant With Noah

9 Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth. The fear and dread of you will fall on all the beasts of the earth, and on all the birds in the sky, on every creature that moves along the ground, and on all the fish in the sea; they are given into your hands.3 Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you.C)'> Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.D)'>

Hi Fatter you did give a clear answer to En's question - you believe the God you believe in has given you permission to use animals as food. But permission is not the same as a command - you still have a choice and you don't have to do it. There are practising Christians who take "they are given into your hands" and "thou shalt not kill" to mean they have a responsibility to avoid harm.
 
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True responsibility cannot be dictated by another, not ever.
It makes no sense that someone can be responsible simply by following directions. To do as one is told without thinking for oneself is about as irresponsible as can be.
 
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God sounds like a d*ck.
May be, but it vegans made him crazy:
"Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually"
And listening to so called "debates" with vegans, I completely understand Him.
 
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your right, my answer is, I choose to eat meat and if God is OK with that so am I, I prefer to spend my additional time and assets helping needy people survive. Including ones not born yet. (can of worms) I have several friends who rescue animals, there entire life revolves around this, The money the spend could easily pay for a well for a remote village in India or Africa, and save many lives,and they spend this every year, one good thing I only have to answer for me, on the day of Judgement
Joe T
 
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Can you have a day of Judgement without a lifetime of judgement?

What I'm saying is this- would you really have any concern about your "day of Judgement" if you didn't spend your entire life judging yourself? Are you helping the needy in order to judge yourself in high favor, or are you simply helping those in need?

Seems to me it would be of utmost importance to you to know if you are genuinely loving. To fake your love for decades sure would not bode well on Judgement day.
 
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Yes 420domainer you are right about that, a persons motive will be exposed on that day as well, it will be a day when hay and stubble will burn (things done for the wrong reason) either for our own edification,or selfish motive, that's why I hesitate to tell what I do, because bible says we shouldn't let our left hand know what our right hand is doing, in other words don't do things for the praise of men, but do them in secret,but for the sake of our discussion I emphasized that there is so much need in the world for food, clothing and clean water for human beings that I and many others would prfer to concentrate on them rather than spending billions to save animals.
 
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I refuse to watch any of those planet earth documentaries because watching an animal kill and eat another animal makes me sad. If my cat even tries to grab and eat a worm, I take the worm and safely put it back in the soil.

But I am also a meat eater. The act of killing for food makes me uncomfortable, but I get it. Knowing just about every other mammal and many other species do the same thing lets me sleep at night. I'm all for more humane ways of raising eventual food, but damn do I love a good strip steak.
 
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I refuse to watch any of those planet earth documentaries because watching an animal kill and eat another animal makes me sad. If my cat even tries to grab and eat a worm, I take the worm and safely put it back in the soil.

But I am also a meat eater. The act of killing for food makes me uncomfortable, but I get it. Knowing just about every other mammal and many other species do the same thing lets me sleep at night. I'm all for more humane ways of raising eventual food, but damn do I love a good strip steak.
How bout crispy.bacon :)
 
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Anyone want to debate why they believe they have the right to enslave, manipulate, force, bully into submission, and send innocent gentle animals to a slaughterhouse full of uneducated employees that have a career in mass murder?

Strong words. Meat eaters are all bad then. And, vegans do nothing wrong, right? Or, do we all do our bit to help, and also without being able to avoid it, all do harm in some way too?

Being a vegan or vegetarian is entirely a life choice, a personal choice, just like whether you want to go skiing or on a beach holiday! In either case, harm is done, to various things!

So, as a vegan who saves the planet by a single act of not eating meat, and obviously does no harm in any other way given your sanctimonious attitude in your first post, do you go on holiday somewhere?

The aeroplane flight causes harm to the planet, the drive to the airport in your car does also. etc etc.
And I'm not just talking about "carbon emissions", I'm talking about so much more than face value.
  1. The aeroplane and car parts, made of plastic, metal, wood etc, where require materials which are sourced in ways which harm the environment in some way, and all formed and made in a factory with processes which causes harm
  2. The trucks that deliver those parts give out emissions and the factory that made the trucks do too.
  3. The obtaining of fuel to drive these vehicles is obtained in a way that kills things and is not good for the planet on a mass scale.
  4. All the way down to your luggage and how it was made, and how the old one you threw away sits in a land fill causing various issues
  5. And so on and so on...

So, do you not go on that holiday to save the planet? Do you own a car? Order goods online which has a datacentre for the website, packaging, deliveries in a truck....?

Almost everything we do now causes harm to something, someone, or was brought to us in some way that caused stress, grief, harm, or some injustice to someone else!!

So it's fine to debate whether we should or should not eat meat based on if animals are humanely slaughtered, but to use this as some kind of "meat eaters are therefore bad" is not on.

I don't need to be a vegan to care about animals! I do care that animals may not have such a quick death, but there is something you and every single person reading this owns or uses as a service which was created via some kind of cruelty or causes some kind of harm to the environment. Whether slave labour, or incredibly harsh working conditions, etc.
Heck, just reading this post uses electricity, a computer made of harmful plastics, the internet is served via systems and hardware full of plastics and bad things on a huge scale, and uses electricity etc.

The fact is, in this world today this is everywhere, and we can all do our bit to try to stop it, and yes one of the many potential choices includes not eating meat for the sake of animals, But please don't think nor insinuate that meat eaters are "bad" just because they choose to eat meat, we all do our bit in some way, and we all do something which causes harm.

For example, how many of you have domain names hosted as a website somewhere? Do you go out of your way to find a green datacentre hosting provider? Which helps the planet and all the animals on it?
I do. Do you? Or is one of your choices to not eat meat? We all do our bit, in different ways.


So instead of lashing out as if you are all good and meat eaters are bad, perhaps take a look at the bigger picture!
The amount of land needed to cater for an influx in a diets alternative to eating meat would be mammoth, and in itself kill billions of animals! Forests and wildlife areas would be levelled to cater for crop growing. All insects, ants, spiders, bees, etc etc, would also be killed, and this has an affect on the survivability of the surrounding plants, trees, and food for other animals like birds etc.

Please, stop seeing the world in black and white! I'm sincerely pleased if you choose to not eat meat for the sake of animals, but until you live in a hut in the middle of no-where and only use things you hand make and use nothing commercial at all, then you have no right to even contest my eating meat!
 
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Let's not use the bible/God as some means of an argument for either side. I mean, who brings religion into a vegan debate, that's like throwing tigers into a bear fight :xf.grin:

God flooded the world, killing all animals, billions to the power of billions etc.
Jesus served fish to 5K people
etc
 
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Being raised on a farm we always treated our animals good, free range and cracked corn. I don't like when I see cruelty to animals, but believe God has given us the answer, sorry about preaching, but my belief system is based on the Bible, I try and make all my decisions based on it. It took me a long time to come to the conclusion that there was a time to kill, serving in the military. I am thankful I never had too. But here is what God says to Noah after the flood

Genesis 9New International Version (NIV)
God’s Covenant With Noah

9 Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth. The fear and dread of you will fall on all the beasts of the earth, and on all the birds in the sky, on every creature that moves along the ground, and on all the fish in the sea; they are given into your hands.3 Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you.C)'> Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.D)'>
http://www.discoveryuk.com/shows/ru...ow-to-survive/poisonous-animals-you-cant-eat/

What about dogs and cats?

Putting animals through hell on Earth to feed your own selfishness? Doesn't sound like something that's getting people into heaven, more likely they will experience the life of all of those animals...

"You are what you eat."

If you're happy experiencing the same fate as what you eat, in the next universe adventure, then fine. Continue eating...

Remember, God also made it that humans can survive without eating meat.

Mainly what I hear from meat eaters is that they "love" eating meat, the taste, "oh just had my steak" bragging, blah. Just basically all selfishness, narcissistic behaviour.

And... "Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually"
And listening to so called "debates" with vegans, I completely understand Him.???

Take a good look at what is happening to the planet.

Ironically 100% of vegans care about whether the seas are being overfished to extinction, yet not for themselves, all meat eaters care about is their next selfish meal and the money that their 'objects' will fetch them.

Wake up!
 
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Take a good look at what is happening to the planet.
Planet is OK, it's 4 milliard years old and still looking good. It survived lot of cataclisms, asteroids, volcanos, meat eating dinosauros etc. If you wanna feel closier to Mother-Nature, stop debating with meat eaters, just ask your dentist treat you without analgesics.
 
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Planet is OK, it's 4 milliard years old and still looking good. It survived lot of cataclisms, asteroids, volcanos, meat eating dinosauros etc. If you wanna feel closier to Mother-Nature, stop debating with meat eaters, just ask your dentist treat you without analgesics.
I'm not talking about the aesthetics of the planet, the outer appearance, the Earth selfie, I'm talking about its soul.

I don't remember hearing about abused, tortured, and bullied dinosaurs? Maybe it's just human nature?
 
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