Vegan Debate

[En]

Do we have any vegans at NamePros?

Anyone want to debate why they believe they have the right to enslave, manipulate, force, bully into submission, and send innocent gentle animals to a slaughterhouse full of uneducated employees that have a career in mass murder?

 

[frank-germany]

Then why do you eat it? You hate hamburgers because you don't like the taste? That doesn't make sense.

I don't hate hamburgers

they just are really bad nutrition
and not worth the pain that it had given to an animal

take away the spice and the crusty from fire

just boil your meat with unsalted natural water
and you will taste the taste of meat

all the other flavours you can have produced with supplements of meat as well

 

[Yuri Kt]

take a deep breath
and think of germany

we have a lot of forest here
and we treat it well

propaganda seems to be your best bet in terms of fighting
to not been forced to think

Seht gut. Take care of your forest. You live better than brasilians, you consume more, you pollute more.

 

[frank-germany]

Seht gut. Take care of your forest. You live better than brasilians, you consume more, you pollute more.

you are very close to be ignored

 

[imadoer]

I'm a vegetarian by choice i could give to craps who eats what or does what with there lives nothing will ever change there's no need for debate. if you eat meat or don't its your choice and your life your karma.

 

[frank-germany]

I'm a vegetarian by choice i could give to craps who eats what or does what with there lives nothing will ever change there's no need for debate. if you eat meat or don't its your choice and your life your karma.

I really love a hefty debate
because it forces me to rethink

and if the other parties are adding new points
or controversal points

thats good again

as it forces me to find better arguments

as a result of this thread
I have started to avoid meat even more


take that
" I just love the taste " argument

formerly I would have just accepted it

but now I understand
what a stupid idea that is

if you think of that fat lady loving cream cakes

 

[Yuri Kt]

you are very close to be ignored

Anyway, vegans usually listen to themselves only

 

[frank-germany]

Anyway, vegans usually listen to themselves only

I have listend to you
but you didn't say anything

.. and I am no vegan

 

[Yuri Kt]

You're a german than never ate normal meat. What about good schpeck ? You don't need to boil it in water exploring the "real taste", just keep it couple of days with salt.

 

[frank-germany]

You're a german than never ate normal meat. What about good schpeck ? You don't need to boil it in water exploring the "real taste", just keep it couple of days with salt.

I haven never eaten that
I think its disgusting

 

[Yuri Kt]

It's your feelngs. I guess lot of people surroundng your don't think so.
My 2nd son doesn't touch vegetables of any kind.

 

[frank-germany]

It's your feelngs. I guess lot of people surroundng your don't think so.
My 2nd son doesn't touch vegetables of any kind.

thats not his fault

 

[Yuri Kt]

thats not his fault

No. It just disgusting for him. But he goesn't debate with "tomato eaters" as well.

 

[james haw]

We have the mental capacity to expand our horizons to other issues happening.

Then stop slating meat eaters for doing the same thing you do in those "other issues happening".

Unfortunately, believing you are making any kind of difference at all by not eating meat is a false hope.

Too many people eat meat, you stopping is like taking a thimble full of water and pouring it in the ocean and saying "there we go". So what? Nothing at all.

I feel for the animals, I agree something should be done, but not eating meat is not it.
And my mentality btw is, for example, I won't litter just because there is some already there, because I would be making it worse!
However, would I throw a single sweety wrapper in a huge landfill full of rubbish? Of course I would. I make no difference to it at all.

Me not eating meat changes nothing. If I wanted to make a difference I'd go campaign, buy a domain name and set up some website and make people aware etc.

The truth of it is, I do care, deeply, I have had pets all my life, who have been healthy and happy by the kind way I've trained and treated them. But I don't have time to go to the government and picket for them to do the right thing. They should already be doing something about it all. I as a single person am powerless. Not eating meat, given the trivial amount I consume, would do nothing.

And if you say "but if everyone thought that way" you'd be absolutely correct, if 70% stopped eating meat unless humane practice was everywhere, then it would make a difference. But that will never happen in this world now, too many people don't care, don't think about it, waste meat and throw it away, are too busy to think about it with 3 kids a job and school runs, etc etc.

Not eating meat is not the answer without so many people doing it as a campaign, and it just won't happen. So not eating meat is not the answer to animal cruelty I'm afraid.

 

[frank-germany]

Me not eating meat changes nothing.

it will change a lot.

you are not powerless
-ghandi was not powerless-

when I design a tool
the most complex task can be solved
when broken down into small steps

same is true here

when you will stop eating meat
you will make a change for a lot of animals
that you won't eat

and you may influence other people

concentrate on your ability to feel the pain of those
really powerless beings - the animals

and it will be easy



https://www.facebook.com/frank.mueller.7547/posts/10208890403793841

 

[james haw]

1) would they still want it
if they needed to kill the animal themself?

No, probably a high % of meat eaters wouldn't. People in the masses would buy from those who hunt, like in olden times.
Although I fail to see what argument this brings at all. If I had to carry my own turds in my hands to a place to get rid of it, I'd probably try to not go to the toilet as much. Which is as pointless to this specific debate as whether people would hunt for themselves or not.

2) some people want sex all day,
so - should they get it?

That makes no sense in this argument given you're all about inhumane slaughter. Last time my leg was over, I don't remember much death nor eating at all, well, maybe some of the latter...

you are a trolling expert

Honestly, I am not easily offended. Probably once a month given my thick skin, but this is offensive, and a little ignorant. You might disagree with me, which is your right and I welcome constructive debates where we chew over each others ideas etc, but given the information and discussion points I've brought up I'm clearly not trolling.

TROLL:
One who posts a deliberately provocative message with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument.

How am I being disruptive and provocative? no more then En, but you don't call him a troll, in fact like and agree with a lot of their posts.
Perhaps you think I'm trolling because I don't agree with you?

It's Ironic that it seems deliberately provocative you calling me a troll when any reasonable and intelligent person can see I'm just debating.
I also find it ironic, like JB pointed out, that you claim to eat meat sometimes, but then rant and rave about how meat eaters this that and the other. WTF man? Pick a side, choose what you believe, and go with it.
No good slating all meat eaters, then claiming you eat meat, then backing out cowardly by saying "I know I'm not perfect". That means you think all meat eaters other than yourself are just bad people who do not care about the animals?
What?

Maybe you, like En, just don't want to see the real world? It is a scary place with many bad things. Your shirt you wear now, do you know where it came from? A sweat shop in a poor country perhaps? Perhaps not, but do you know for sure?

the vegetables I eat are not produced by slaves
but you live in USA
-I guess-
there it may happen

I realise something about you now and why you call me a troll. You are extremely presumptuous.
I do not live in the USA
I do not eat vegetables produced by slaves neither
I source meat (mostly) from farms with well treat animals

Presume, presume, presume. Makes for a boring and meaningless discussion.

you are trolling because:
that is not a normal procedure with vegatable production
but animal bad treatment for meat production is standard
and happens all over the world
is is NOT an exception as
your vegetable report

What utter nonsense. Sincerely, go look at the world, it's full of atrocities in all areas of providing services and products we use every day.

And I could say the same for animal slaughter, that many farms run clean and humane practices.

Mate, go read on Google for 10 minutes and with regards to vegetable picking, you'll see words like "Rape, trafficking, poor conditions, death, drowning, horrific life, little or no pay forced to work, children forced to work".
They way you talk is that meat eaters are satan's little workers, but this view is only of those who are ill-informed and ignorant to what is going on in the world, right now.

 

[james haw]

you need 7 times more land to produces the same amount of colories
supplied by meat compared to the amount of land needed for plant nutrition

For what meat, versus what crop? Man, it's just not as black and white as you make it out to be to force it into your argument.

So, lettuce creates more greenhouse gasses than pork and chicken based on calories consumed/provided.
Please, respond to that on topic and without side stepping my actual point!

it will change a lot.
you are not powerless
-ghandi was not powerless-

when I design a tool
the most complex task can be solved
when broken down into small steps

same is true here

when you will stop eating meat
you will make a change for a lot of animals
that you won't eat

and you may influence other people

concentrate on your ability to feel the pain of those
really powerless beings - the animals

and it will be easy

Sorry, you are entirely wrong. If I stopped eating meat, the exact same amount of meat will be produced. It just means some shops would throw away a tiny bit extra to the usual massive amounts they already do - unnoticed and unchanged.

What, you think the farmers and supermarkets of the world would suddenly stop and go "Wait, James has not bought his usual chicken. We need to re-evaluate our margins and try to recoup this noticeable loss".

 

[frank-germany]

Honestly, I am not easily offended. Probably once a month given my thick skin, but this is offensive, and a little ignorant. You might disagree with me, which is your right and I welcome constructive debates where we chew over each others ideas etc, but given the information and discussion points I've brought up I'm clearly not trolling.

TROLL:
One who posts a deliberately provocative message with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument.

I didn't mean to offend you

in my eyes you were clearly pointing to all kind of misery happening in the world
which has nothing to do with the question
if you are vegan or not

which is causing disruption as you call it

 

[frank-germany]

Sorry, you are entirely wrong. If I stopped eating meat, the exact same amount of meat will be produced. It just means some shops would throw away a tiny bit extra to the usual massive amounts they already do - unnoticed and unchanged.

What, you think the farmers and supermarkets of the world would suddenly stop and go "Wait, James has not bought his usual chicken. We need to re-evaluate our margins and try to recoup this noticeable loss".

that makes it a lot easier for you, right?

they through away food
that is right
but the are focused on profitability
so they will order less next time

maybe its more effective if you can convince some neighbors

but its definetely a poor argument

 

[frank-germany]

For what meat, versus what crop? Man, it's just not as black and white as you make it out to be to force it into your argument.

So, lettuce creates more greenhouse gasses than pork and chicken based on calories consumed/provided.
Please, respond to that on topic and without side stepping my actual point!

the idea is this:
you need to feed the animal with vegatables

for that you need ( I have heard ) 7 times more vegetables
then what would be needed if you would eat the vegetables directly

 

[Yuri Kt]

the idea is this:
you need to feed the animal with vegatables

for that you need ( I have heard ) 7 times more vegetables
then what would be needed if you would eat the vegetables directly

It may be correct for pets, not for "meat/milk" industry animals. They usually don't get vegetables suitable for human consumption, only residues, cornmeal, hay and leaves. Sometimes there are vegetables, that may not be marketed for any reason, so feeding animals is better way to utilize these vegetables.

 

[frank-germany]

It may be correct for pets, not for "meat/milk" industry animals. They usually don't get vegetables suitable for human consumption, only residues, cornmeal, hay and leaves. Sometimes there are vegetables, that may not be marketed for any reason, so feeding animals is better way to utilize these vegetables.

vegatable = all kind of plants
those animal needs to be fed

 

[Yuri Kt]

the idea is this:

then what would be needed if you would eat the vegetables directly

Try eating directly "all kind of plants".

 

[frank-germany]

Try eating directly "all kind of plants".

ok you don't want to understand the idea

thats fine
as you are obviously not open
to rethink

 

[tiawalling]

 

[frank-germany]

Show attachment 39113

they are clearly overweighted
at least one of them