Vegan Debate

[En]

Do we have any vegans at NamePros?

Anyone want to debate why they believe they have the right to enslave, manipulate, force, bully into submission, and send innocent gentle animals to a slaughterhouse full of uneducated employees that have a career in mass murder?

 

[carob]

It may be correct for pets, not for "meat/milk" industry animals. They usually don't get vegetables suitable for human consumption, only residues, cornmeal, hay and leaves. Sometimes there are vegetables, that may not be marketed for any reason, so feeding animals is better way to utilize these vegetables.

A lot of land is used to produce feed crops for animals, where that land can be used to produce plant food directly for humans. So it takes far less land, and other inputs, to feed people on a plant-based diet. So plant-based diets are more efficient, also resulting in less C02 emissions and generally being less expensive. As well as healthier.

 

[Yuri Kt]

ok you don't want to understand the idea

thats fine
as you are obviously not open
to rethink

I've raised between steppes and mountains. I know what sheeps and cows eat and why they move from place to place. And I worked for the agricultural industry during 3 years, mostly in chicken/eggs production. I don't need ideas, I have some knowledge.

 

[carob]

Me not eating meat changes nothing. If I wanted to make a difference I'd go campaign, buy a domain name and set up some website and make people aware etc.

The truth of it is, I do care, deeply, I have had pets all my life, who have been healthy and happy by the kind way I've trained and treated them. But I don't have time to go to the government and picket for them to do the right thing. They should already be doing something about it all. I as a single person am powerless. Not eating meat, given the trivial amount I consume, would do nothing.

And if you say "but if everyone thought that way" you'd be absolutely correct, if 70% stopped eating meat unless humane practice was everywhere, then it would make a difference. But that will never happen in this world now, too many people don't care, don't think about it, waste meat and throw it away, are too busy to think about it with 3 kids a job and school runs, etc etc.

Not eating meat is not the answer without so many people doing it as a campaign, and it just won't happen. So not eating meat is not the answer to animal cruelty I'm afraid.

This seems to be presenting a confusing Catch-22 where you say you'd like to stop but only when everyone else does which you think won't happen because it would require a huge campaign that you don't have time to run?

No one is stopping you from stopping if you want to, sounds like the person you are are wrestling with at length is yourself. Would someone say I'll only stop smoking when everyone else does?

 

[frank-germany]

humans have a very long colon
thats typical for plant eaters

meat eaters usually have very short colons

so the meat stays much longer in your colon
then it will in meat eating animals

there are many people having colon issues

but that may be coincidentely

 

[frank-germany]

I've raised between steppes and mountains. I know what sheeps and cows eat and why they move from place to place. And I worked for the agricultural industry during 3 years, mostly in chicken/eggs production. I don't need ideas, I have some knowledge.

yes but obviously
you are not open to rethink

 

[Yuri Kt]

ok you don't want to understand the idea

thats fine
as you are obviously not open
to rethink

Why not ? Thinking and rethinking in air-conditioned room is much more comfortable than building terraces in mountains.

 

[frank-germany]

And I worked for the agricultural industry during 3 years, mostly in chicken/eggs production. I don't need ideas, I have some knowledge.

yes so your an expert in the field of food production

 

[carob]

yes but obviously
you are not open to rethink

Hi you didn't say that to me but I'd like to make a comment. People usually don't rethink their diet in a hurry, unless maybe after a medical emergency. Often they have doubts and questions and find it hard to change, or they change and then go back, and then try again. And again. So often what is needed is info, support and advice with first steps and keeping on the path.

 

[frank-germany]

Hi you didn't say that to me but I'd like to make a comment. People usually don't rethink their diet in a hurry, unless maybe after a medical emergency. Often they have doubts and questions and find it hard to change, or they change and then go back, and then try again. And again. So often what is needed is info, support and advice with first steps and keeping on the path.

yes you are right
I'am an inpatient person

 

[Yuri Kt]

yes so your an expert in the field of food production

No, just some little amount of real experience vs propaganda-stuffed heads.
My nephew(and business partner in one of projects) became a vegan two years ago. He also stopped drinking alcohol. I respect his way, he respects mine.

 

[frank-germany]

No, just some little amount of real experience vs propaganda-stuffed heads.
My nephew(and business partner in one of projects) became a vegan two years ago. He also stopped drinking alcohol. I respect his way, he respects mine.

I respect yours as well

sorry for being rude

 

[Yuri Kt]

I respect yours as well

sorry for being rude

Thanks. The world is moving toward synthetic meat producing. This is the real way to reduce killings and suffer, still having a good juicy piece of meat for dinner.

 

[En]

My views aren't based on propaganda. When I was 16 I worked as a lab technician during my school summer break. I didn't see many of the animals, until one day I was given a trash bag to take out. On my way out I heard noises coming from the bag so I opened it up, to find little baby mice still alive!

Not to mention the bodybuilding culture around where I live, where they are eating 6-8 meals a day! The only reason is to "look good".

If anyone has been brainwashed, it's not me.

 

[En]

Thanks. The world is moving toward synthetic meat producing. This is the real way to reduce killings and suffer, still having a good juicy piece of meat for dinner.

I'm glad we agree that the future is not torturing animals.

Begs the question why wait for the future to stop, if you have the choice of not doing it now?

 

[Yuri Kt]

Because our selfishness is the great progress factor.
And we choose to sacrifice animals for research and for food.

 

[Wannabean]

You either like it because it tastes good or for nutritional purposes.

What about convenience, habit or expectations of friends and family. There are lots of reasons people eat meat. Some bad, some good.

 

[Wannabean]

And a vegan already schooled you that vegetarians are hypocrites

That depends on why someone is vegetarian. I don't eat meat because it's filled with steroids and antibiotics.

I accept biology as a mutual eating society. Everything eats and eventually gets eaten.

 

[Wannabean]

I'm glad we agree that the future is not torturing animals.

Let us assume that one day your message is heard and humans stop 'torturing' and eating animals. We're all vegan.

Then how are you going to stop animals 'torturing' and eating each other? Or is that acceptable because it is part of nature? (a ridiculous statement, because it suggests human beings somehow aren't part of nature)

 

[En]

our selfishness

Exactly! The same reason for every single terrible thing happening on our planet today.

 

[Wannabean]

Exactly! The same reason for every single terrible thing happening on our planet today.

In a way, to live is to be selfish. You survive by eating plants, at the plants expense. That's selfish. There's no way of escaping it.

 

[En]

In a way, to live is to be selfish. You survive by eating plants, at the plants expense. That's selfish. There's no way of escaping it.

You are aware of your selfishness.

 

[En]

So long as humans choose the best path for planet Earth, that's good enough for me.

When we greet life from a different planet, they will then be happy to communicate.

 

[james haw]

This seems to be presenting a confusing Catch-22 where you say you'd like to stop but only when everyone else does which you think won't happen because it would require a huge campaign that you don't have time to run?

No one is stopping you from stopping if you want to, sounds like the person you are are wrestling with at length is yourself. Would someone say I'll only stop smoking when everyone else does?

never said nor insinuated I want to stop.
I want animal cruelty to stop, just the same as cruelty to humans who pick vegetables and make our clothes and other things.

Do you suggest I don't eat anything animal based nor vegetables and walk around naked not using any products due to a high likelihood of someone or some animal being treated badly for me to have them?

 

[Wannabean]

You are aware of your selfishness.

Yes, I am aware of the inherent selfishness involved in being alive, including my own. But I don't feel guilty because one day something will get to eat me (bacteria, worms, maybe a lion if i'm unlucky ) and so it goes on.

 

[Wannabean]

When we greet life from a different planet, they will then be happy to communicate.

Unless we are a good food source, in which case they might just eat us instead.