discuss Epik vs. Epic and Happy New Year!

[ThatNameGuy]

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=epik

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=domainer

Just like "domainer" isn't a real word, either is epik However, they both are found in the Urban Dictionary and Wiktionary, thus they're not made up words imho.

Like I have with other key words, I've just started accumulating a portfolio titled; EpikNames.com like; EpikTravel.com, EpikVegas.com and EpikJobs.com

Rob Monster the CEO of Epik.com was the first industry leader I met when I accidentally found the domain industry and the secondary market that Verisign says is "hidden in plain sight".

It's been said, if you want a new idea read an old book, and you may want to think of me as the old book I found this industry too late to be involved in "one word" domains, but two word domains have become my skill set that I've been told I'm pretty good at, and hopefully getting better.

Now getting back to Epik vs. Epic. As a business person, would you rather own the domain EpicTravel at 20K or EpikTravel at 2K? In my mind it's a No Brainer, but not so fast old time "domainers" might say? To put things in perspective, I just bought the domain EpikTravel.com from Epik.com for $8 and GD Values it at $1,343 while it Values EpicTravel at $6,455. And while those valuations sound way out of bounds, NameWorth values EpicTravel.com at $9,450 and EpikTravel.com at <less than $500. Furthermore, NameWorth values Epik.com at $64,000 and Epic.com at 10M, that's right ten million dollars

Finally, and maybe it's just me, but I like "Epik" better than "Epic"....maybe it's that EpikWeed I've been smoking. What say you?....Happy New Year

 

[SuperBrander]

Discussing names is great. I love names. There's an infinite amount of them. A creative person can always invent new ones. But since you're also an investor, who's buying domains and expecting to sell them- you moved into domaining territory and you're discussing purchases, their cost, their potential etc. In that territory you claim that you're making great risk-reward decisions even though you're basing them on unreliable appraisal tools, your naming skills (they may be great but are marginally related to actually selling domains) and your confidence that as a salesman you can reach out to entities and be able to convince them to pay $XXX-$XXXX for something that just cost $8. You're confident of that even though your domains generally don't fit into the niches of domains that usually sell via outbound (geo, service industry, exact match that are an upgrade to an existing url etc.).

Since you yourself admit that you're not a domainer in the traditional sense of the word, perhaps you shouldn't dismiss input from successful domainers who do understand a thing or two about this industry and tell them that they don't know what they're talking about. After all, I'm presuming that you are interested in learning, improving and making some money out of this, as much fun as it is to just buy hundreds of $8 domains, write about their perceived potential and then drop many of them at the end of the first year.

 

[ThatNameGuy]

Discussing names is great. I love names. There's an infinite amount of them. A creative person can always invent new ones. But since you're also an investor, who's buying domains and expecting to sell them- you moved into domaining territory and you're discussing purchases, their cost, their potential etc. In that territory you claim that you're making great risk-reward decisions even though you're basing them on unreliable appraisal tools, your naming skills (which may be great but are unrelated to actually selling domains) and your confidence that as a salesman you can reach out to entities and be able to convince them to pay $XXXX for something that just cost $8. You're confident of that even though your domains don't fit into the niches of domains that usually sell via outbound (geo, service industry, exact match that are an upgrade to an existing url etc.).

Since you yourself admit that you're not a domainer in the traditional sense of the word, perhaps you shouldn't dismiss input from successful domainers who do understand a thing or two about this industry and tell them that they don't know what they're talking about. After all, I'm presuming that you are interested in learning, improving and making some money out of this, as much fun as it is to just buy hundreds of $8 domains, write about their perceived potential and then drop many of them at the end of each year.

So you don't think I know how to create names that sell via outbound? As a stakeholder I just helped rebrand the the name of my community (2M People) from "Hampton Roads" to "757" If I'm not mistaken this would be geo names that I own;
Welcome757.com
Bank757.com
757Bank
757Brands
Brand757
Catch757
757Dine
757Guide
757Waterfront
757Residential
757Diet
Coast757
Ocean757
Tour757
Vacation757
Explore757
Mortgage757
Sports757
757Care
Join757

Now forgive me if you think I'm clueless, but I wouldn't have been able to create names like this if I hadn't learned anything about the domain industry in the last 24 months. In case you didn't notice, many of these names are for the "service industry" in the "757".

I've never said or insinuated you don't know what you're doing, but why is it you give me the impression that I don't know what I'm doing? Inquiring minds would luv to know

 

[JB Lions]

but why is it you give me the impression that I don't know what I'm doing? Inquiring minds would luv to know

Same reason given for every other thread you've made saying the same thing. You're not selling domains. Pretty simple.

 

[.X.]

Epik vs Epic

Business is much easier to run with out having other business folks lawyers calling about TM, copyright and all that stuff.

that is why Citibank chose Citi over City , the same reason you will see businesses use Nite instead of Night.

using common spellings can be a pain in the ass , and branding is much harder IMO

 

[SuperBrander]

To quote you: "my LIFE has been built on the concept of risk vs. reward....you REALLY don't understand the concept". And your recent quote: "I've never said or insinuated you don't know what you're doing". I'll just leave these two sentences by each other.

Since I bought Internationally.com for cheap and it's "worth" 2.75 million, I guess I may have a certain clue about risk/reward. OK. I think I've exhausted this conversation from my end and I'll spare myself the dive into your 757 investment. I have more productive things to do.

 

[branding]

Yes, CloudCondom is good....how about ClownCondom? Seriously, I use to be a partner in a business called Bobby the Clowns Party Animals, and Bobby is a friend who's still clowning around to make a living. Isn't it funny how one name/domain triggers another? I'll be driving down the road and see a fantasy license plate, and the next thing you know I'm pulling off the road or coming to a light then checking with GD to see if the name is available. I just bought Yum21.com after seeing a license plate that read Umm2021....go figure

Lol, clowncondoms. That product would endanger the clown species so I'm not sure I'm a fan

We have this shop here near the coast that is selling Christmas stuff all year round. Regular trees but insane stuff as well including santa condoms, Christmas condoms etc. Just checked and all available in .com. An overlooked niche? Maybe.

I like weird/creative stuff and domains. I register some occasionally. Big difference being, I don't expect them to sell. Ever. These kind of names are just not investment grade. That's the reason most domainers won't reg them.

That being said, I'm sure having a brainstorm session with you naming a company would be great fun. But eventually, as @Ategy has already pointed out, thinking up workable domains is basically not gonna cut it for 99.99% of domainers. You can easily spare the hundreds (or thousands) on gamble regs. Most newcomers earning low wages can't. We should be upfront about it and save them from making the mistake of spending their hard-earned money on domains that are likely to give no ROI at all.

What your critics are doing is quite similar to the way your are trying to help homeless people.

Showing the way and what steps to take to better your situation instead of trying to figure it out on your own. Preventing people from spending money on something they basically cannot afford, lured into by false promises of big returns.

You're passionate, you've got a big mouth but are kind-hearted. Use those qualities to your advantage. Embrace criticism and thank people (sincerely) for opposing your views. Lets build bridges, gain friendships, forget the past and better ourselves. Those are my wishes for you and everyone in this forum for 2020. God bless.

 

[.X.]

Bob...a lot of what you're saying proves the need for "outbound" marketing for domains. I checked NameBio like Brad did, and there's a very obvious reason why there are way more sales for Epic vs. Epik domains that should be evident to anyone who knows this business. Bottomline, hell will need to freeze over before before my Epikxxxx.com domains will sell via inbound

marketing as in putting the name out there to see, or, emailing, calling and ect people???

out bounding via email and telephone or by forceful actions is nothing more than straight out solicitation IMO , which I can’t stand, people will always seek out the things they want.

 

[Lox]

OP is rich & do things that are outside box + in 5 days 2500 thread views, 106 replies

 

[Bob Hawkes]

. I don't know if you noticed me saying I have a friend by the name of Clark Rambo who started

I tried not to since I really think you should try to rein in the name dropping. It's not right, or helpful, to bring friends, business associates, etc. into a thread, even when you mean it in a positive way.

Now you might say well how is it different from me mentioning what a branding expert said. In my mind there is a huge difference. He has a naming blog. He has written at least two books on naming. He speaks on the subject. He makes a living helping companies rename. He tweeted about misspelled names recently to a few tens of thousands of people. He is a public persona in the naming and branding world. See the difference?

I liked the original question asked when you started this thread. Is a two-word domain name with one word spelled unconventionally but phonetically a good choice for a business name? Using Epik vs Epic as a useful specific on the question helps. Let's focus the discussion on that important topic that you started this thread with, please.

Let's not muddy the clarity of what it is we are talking about by bringing in friends and their previous companies or Rambo or other domain names you have (there are different parts of NamePros for listing newly registered names or asking for appraisals on names you hold.)

I think you see tenuous links, like I take it the Rubber Ducky company had a misspell? But to my mind that multi-word name is not adding to this discussion in any significant way.

Let's stick to your original question. Double word business names with phonetic spelling or sales of domains like that, and trends, are relevant to what you first asked.

Bob

 

[ThatNameGuy]

marketing as in putting the name out there to see, or, emailing, calling and ect people???

out bounding via email and telephone or by forceful actions is nothing more than straight out solicitation IMO , which I can’t stand, people will always seek out the things they want.[/QUOTE

Addict, spamming isn't my thing....i hate it too. I don't know if you've read any of my posts about taking my domains straight to industries that need them....the financial services industry, the healthcare industry, the real estate and home building industry, the restaurant and food service industries, etc. Addict, I generally buy industry specific domains. Lets take the restaurant and food service industries for example....first off, it's a multi Billion dollar industry. Do you have any idea how many people think they can start a restaurant and make money at it? For the record, I've really started about 20 different businesses in the last fifty years, some successful and some not. However, I've told my wife and all my friends, if I ever say I'm opening a restaurant or even investing in one, please pull our a gun and shoot me That said, I do know that tens of thousands of students graduate from culinary schools every year. How many of them plan to own their own restaurant some day? Pretty much all of them right? How important do you think a name might be to them even thought they can't afford to buy/start a restaurant today? Do you think any of them could afford to pay $25 or $50 a month until such time they can afford to open their doors? I'd explain how I intend to reach out to culinary schools and their students, but it's proprietary information. The same thing is true for exactly how we intend to market to real estate trade groups, trade schools, healthcare organizations and legal/law associations involved with startups.

Outbound also involves mail solicitations that stands out far better than email spam. While I get hundreds of email spam almost daily, I only get a few direct mail solicitation's a day. How might that look? I've been involved in direct mail solicitations all my life. They can look crappy or they can look great and enticing just like a website.

That's all I have time for now Addict, but please don't ever assume anything. Thank you.

 

[ThatNameGuy]

Bob..i can assure you I don't mind you or anyone else using my name to make a point, and the point of me using the name Clark Rambo was because of his names relationship to the to the two Rambo domains I'd just purchased that were being criticized infinitum If I'd bought two Monster domains like MonsterBrands or MonsterTrucks I'm sure Rob would have appreciated the publicity. That said, I'm sorry I offended you.

Moving on...you might want to read my previous post/response to Addict about my "outbound" strategies. However, I doubt seriously any of my critiques will even acknowledge them because they know the more and better outbound strategies work it affects their pocket books. If you need to know how....I'll explain.

Again, thanks for being the voice of reason, but that doesn't mean we will always agree

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Bob...a lot of what you're saying proves the need for "outbound" marketing for domains.

Perhaps I don't remember or understand what I write, it seems , but I did not mean to be at all talking about outbound. I hate getting contacted to buy anything. I don't think an upswing in broad outbound is the way to sell domain names more effectively.

I think there are ways to make the process of people finding names more efficient, ways to get them in front of eyes short of direct contact, better ways to present names, and better ways to build trust in the aftermarket. I think there are ways to influence business and public positive perception of names and the aftermarket. I am all for those things, but not personally in favour of emailing or mailing and definitely not cold calling a bunch of people about a name that might work for them.

I realize that some do domain outbound effectively, and respect that is one way to operate. But it is not what I personally do or encourage. I just wanted to clarify that. I know you are saying that what I wrote proves the need, not that I am saying I propose doing it, but just wanted to be clear.

In any case I think that this is off topic. I really like the topic of are two word names with one word a phonetic spelling investment worthy. I have heard some good arguments and data on both sides. I hope we can stay focussed on that, please.

Bob

 

[branding]

On subject...

Epik.monster is available people

 

[Bob Hawkes]

On subject...

Epik.monster is available people

Really? I bet it won't be for long!

I am trying to take a domain name acquisition break (I am at 31 days 'clean') - yes, I know, i did bid on a NamePros auction today, but since I am now outbid it does not count and I am still on the wagon!

Otherwise I would be so tempted to take Epik.monster just for fun. Not that my existing small group of .monsters are getting a ton of offers .

Now I the person who just said let's stay on topic am off topic! I guess at least we are talking about Epik, which is a phonetic spelling.

Bob

 

[bmugford]

I guess my biggest issue with domains like that is who are you going to pitch them to exactly?

If you had a domain like BostonRoofing.com for instance, it is pretty easy to find a base to pitch to....roofing companies in Boston. There is a natural market. (That is a domain I sold actually)

If you said you were going to proactively pitch that domain I have no doubt you would get interest.

If I had a domain like Epik (Something) who is the end user that is going to pay a premium price for the domain?

You basically either need to convince someone who doesn't have a domain or has a domain to rebrand their company. I don't think either of those options are realistic, on a broad scale, when you consider the time and energy needed.

Strategies and theories only take you so far. At some point you need actual results.
Anything outside actual sales is largely irrelevant.

Brad

 

[Bob Hawkes]

are two word names with one word a phonetic spelling investment worthy.

Here are my thoughts on this.

There are a sufficient number of successful brands in this category that they can be a good brand, in my opinion. It is a way to get a TMable name, as others mentioned. As a negative, many will guess the standard spelling, so without a matching marketing budget the brand may not hold (that is of course true also for branding on a generic word that has little connection to your main product or service).

So I think they can work as brands. What about as domain investments? Here, I think the questions (or some of them) for two word ones are the following:

1. Is the area important enough that there are multiple possible buyers?
2. Is your two-word name the best possible combination of two words in that category, or at least among the best? Would people naturally say your name as a phrase?
3. So in terms of oral sharing you are fighting conventional spelling. Does the name partly make up for this with nice visual impact and memorability?
4. Another way to make up for it, somewhat, is through other features of the name. e.g. Krispy Kreme is unconventional spelling on both. But it brings to the table two words both of which start Kr, sound nice when spoken, each have 5L, and it just looks nice written, imo.

So I am neither on the side of go out and register a ton of these, but nor do I agree with the position that once one word is spelled unconventionally they are all worthless. I don't recall with certainty if I have any (I don't think so, although I have some creative spellings of blocks that maybe count), but I would definitely consider a few in my portfolio.

Bob

 

[ThatNameGuy]

Perhaps I don't remember or understand what I write, it seems , but I did not mean to be at all talking about outbound. I hate getting contacted to buy anything. I don't think an upswing in broad outbound is the way to sell domain names more effectively.

I think there are ways to make the process of people finding names more efficient, ways to get them in front of eyes short of direct contact, better ways to present names, and better ways to build trust in the aftermarket. I think there are ways to influence business and public positive perception of names and the aftermarket. I am all for those things, but not personally in favour of emailing or mailing and definitely not cold calling a bunch of people about a name that might work for them.

I realize that some do domain outbound effectively, and respect that is one way to operate. But it is not what I personally do or encourage. I just wanted to clarify that. I know you are saying that what I wrote proves the need, not that I am saying I propose doing it, but just wanted to be clear.

In any case I think that this is off topic. I really like the topic of are two word names with one word a phonetic spelling investment worthy. I have heard some good arguments and data on both sides. I hope we can stay focussed on that, please.

Bob

ok Bob....here's a little more focus. I just hand reg'd two more Epik two word names; EpikMotors.com and EpikStone.com. I think that makes about 25 that I own with the majority of them involving Billion dollar plus industries...I was going to reg EpikLove, but there's just not enough money in love. How this thread digressed to "outbound" sales is probably my fault in that I don't believe any of my Epik two word domains will sell via "inbound" unless I get very lucky. Like you, not only do I like the word/name Epik for any business that I might start myself, I can envision how it might look in print or in the form of a logo. Take my neighbors Kayak for example. Although the companies domain name is EpicKayaks.com they just have their simple "Epic" logo on their hull, and it looks real cool I don't know if you get my point here, but names like EpikMotors, EpikBoats and EpikCare can do the same sort of thing if they only knew With regards to EpikStone, a gem stone of which there are thousands can be named "Epik" like a Ruby or a Diamond. Sure Rob could maybe stop someone from using the name Epik for a gemstone, but once he learned that kids around the world are named after gem stones, he might like the name "Epik" appearing on birth certificates across the Globe.....or maybe he wouldn't care

 

[ThatNameGuy]

On subject...

Epik.monster is available people

That's great NameDeck and I just read Bob's response. Actually it's my opinion that Epik can go with a lot of things, and the fact that it looks cool adds value in my opinion. Epik vs Epic could become the biggest spectator attraction since David vs. Goliath. I think I'll start printing tickets

 

[Bob Hawkes]

I like the idea in general of phonetic spelling more than I like getting a bunch of Epik names. I don't know the TM categories Epik is registered in (easy enough to find), but even when absolutely no TM issue, some companies will still be hesitant to have a name with a phonetic spelling where there is already an established company on that identical spelling. Like I think Krispy Kreme is cute, but now that it is a well known brand would be hesitant to call my company one of those spellings.

This is probably hard, but ideally I think some Word1Word2, one of which is phonetic, which is a logical phrase, and which has nice aesthetics, and no existing company on the one phonetically spelled wrong, is best. But how to find those, not easy!

Bob

 

[Joe N]

One thing that hasn't been keyed on yet is the fact that many companies might often opt for a mis-spelled two word name because they don't want to pay more than reg fee for the domain name.

If that's the case, it doesn't bode well for investing in phonetic names.

More than anything, degree of current use will be your best friend in determining if these names are worth the money.

 

[ThatNameGuy]

I like the idea in general of phonetic spelling more than I like getting a bunch of Epik names. I don't know the TM categories Epik is registered in (easy enough to find), but even when absolutely no TM issue, some companies will still be hesitant to have a name with a phonetic spelling where there is already an established company on that identical spelling. Like I think Krispy Kreme is cute, but now that it is a well known brand would be hesitant to call my company one of those spellings.

This is probably hard, but ideally I think some Word1Word2, one of which is phonetic, which is a logical phrase, and which has nice aesthetics, and no existing company on the one phonetically spelled wrong, is best. But how to find those, not easy!

Bob

All toll there are about a dozen different TM's for Epik for which Rob Monster owns one that pretty much spells out his business model. The others are for things like orthopeadic devices, restaurant equipment etc. I haven't seen any conflict with any of my names yet, but what do I know

 

[bmugford]

One thing that hasn't been keyed on yet is the fact that many companies might often opt for a mis-spelled two word name because they don't want to pay more than reg fee for the domain name.

If that's the case, it doesn't bode well for investing in phonetic names.

More than anything, degree of current use will be your best friend in determining if these names are worth the money.

Yes. Valid point.

Many companies will just settle for whatever is available rather than even consider paying a premium for a domain.

Brad

 

[ThatNameGuy]

Yes. Valid point.

Many companies will just settle for whatever is available rather than even consider paying a premium for a domain.

Brad

Not if I own all the good ones

 

[Joe N]

Not if I own all the good ones

Whose opinion of "good" are we using?

 

[ThatNameGuy]

Whose opinion of "good" are we using?

Oh I forgot...I'm delusional. The sun was in my eyes, and I accidentally bought EpikSolar.com a few minute ago. What was I thinking