discuss Shocking stats of 4N.in --> Chinese Interest in Indian extension is huge

[domainpundit]

we all knew chinese are interested in many extensions , many unaware that they are gaining controls on Indian extension .IN too. some interesting stats on 4N.in has proved the same point. Based on the who is its provens almost 75% of the 4N.in are owned by chinese , Indians are sad to miss this important opportunity...
China - 74.76%
Iran - 11.25%
US - 3.81%
India - 3.67%
Canada - 3.15%
UK - 1.22%
Others - remaining - 2.14%

At very high level i felt the similar invasion is going on 3N.in , 5N.in too.. will share the stats later as still working on it.. also they are showing huge interest on 3L.in names too. also recently most of CVCV.in names are registered by chinese .

is .IN is the next target for big chinese investors.. Its very alarming for those missing .IN boat.

worth a great discussion on this topic..

 

[4pm]

There are just around 1000 combinations of nnn.in, very rare. Even if you exclude Chinese buyer, thr are people interested in nnn.in. You just need to look around.

..if you exclude Chinese you would easily see that all that stuff from 4L.net "chips" to NNN.ins was free to reg and no one cared. if at some point Chinese stop throwing their money out regging/buying everything shorter than 5 chars or 6 numbers all that inventory will have no value as no end user in his right mind would develop anything on 376.in or xzjk.net... hope that wont happen soon but every bubble has its burst..

 

[Chirag]

NNN.ins was free to reg and no one cared.

they have been regged from long long ago. @domainpundit can tell you from how many yrs they have been regged.

 

[domainpundit]

they have been regged from long long ago. @domainpundit can tell you from how many yrs they have been regged.

I agree with chirag.. I am tracking nnn.in stats for last 8 years.. I am unaware of any nnn.in left over, there are few names dropped and registered again.. Otherwise nnn.in buyout is continuing for last 8 years.. I can't talk before that but have hints from stats the first buyout occurred in September 2006

 

[4pm]

they have been regged from long long ago. @domainpundit can tell you from how many yrs they have been regged.

...and have never had any interest from end users. till Chinese came

all 4L.com "chips" were also regged long ago, but youll find it very difficult to find any end user sales. dont fool yourself by thinking numerical .ins are of any interest to anyone except Chinese and those who hope to sell to them.. which is not bad because otherwise you would be sitting on them for another 20 years with no offers, honestly..

13 reported sales in 7' years (2007-2014) 6 of which is some really funny "private" package sale that took place in 2008 at $588 apiece, then some were dropped and regged again in 2012 (not too long ago contrary to what you said)

 

[domainpundit]

...and have never had any interest from end users. till Chinese came

all 4L.com "chips" were also regged long ago, but youll find it very difficult to find any end user sales. dont fool yourself by thinking numerical .ins are of any interest to anyone except Chinese and those who hope to sell to them.. which is not bad because otherwise you would be sitting on them for another 20 years with no offers, honestly..

13 reported sales in 7' years (2007-2014) 6 of which is some really funny "private" package sale that took place in 2008 at $588 apiece, then some were dropped and regged again in 2012 (not too long ago contrary to what you said)

Well, you are fooling yourself by taking your past experience and applying the same future while ignoring many things happening around you.. It's not only Chinese but it also smart phones overall Internet usage pattern has changed compare to 10 years before. Do we have a smart phone traffic 10 years before and what's now.. Shorter URLS are in demand, they could be anything.. Nnn.in, lll.in, nnn.com, llll.com etc..

In terms of number of reported sales, I don't care those when compare to dot in names as I personally many other unreported sales on namebio kind of sites.. Thr are many many sales made unreported through namebio as they are private sales happened through escrow service like escrow.com.. You seems to be too conventional and not looking at future trends.. Good luck anyways

 

[Kokoro]

13 reported sales in 7' years (2007-2014) 6 of which is some really funny "private" package sale that took place in 2008 at $588 apiece, then some were dropped and regged again in 2012 (not too long ago contrary to what you said)

Why don't put it this way:

NNN.in's were traded $10 - $20 just at the beginning of 2015 and by the end of the year the floor price was like $500. Quite a nice surge within several months, no? From domainers perspective it really doesn't matter whether the demand is pushed by Chinese, Indians or Paraguayans. What matters is the market value and the prospects of further growth.

As for NNN.in reported sales, I think they are hardly reported anywhere. One of the persons you discuss with in this thread sold an NNN.in for 4 or 5k (don't remember exactly now) in a private sale. Those reported are certainly more than 13, you can see for example here: http://www.domainmarket.in/sales/

Edit:
Yes, there is (almost) no end user market for NNN.in's in India, but that may change in the future too. Indians access the Internet mostly by mobiles and typing 279.in is certainly simpler and faster than realestateinbangalore.in.

 

[4pm]

Yes, there is (almost) no end user market for NNN.in's in India,

..thats what i was trying to say, thanks

as for faster type ins - well, to most end users branding and serp are much more important than fast type in... unless its 100.in or somethng like that how many users would find it easier to remember 639.in vs airtel.in or pizza.in? do you really believe you can brand your business better around 6031.in than on CheapPhones.in? is that going to change soon, why would it? faster type in - does it really matter for people typing 1000s words a day already thanks to popular messengers/chat apps..
would you visit Namepros more often if it were NP.com?

cmon, if not Chinese this thread would not even exist...

 

[Soofi]

Whoever is saying domain industry is in nascent stage in India is little bit off of the current market scenario as the industry is growing four folds and investors plus companies are paying 5-6 figure USD sum for new acquisitions now a days in a flash.

You have to be here to know what's happening and where..

 

[donnied79]

When I had to chose I dropped all my NNN.in except 2 (mistake) and keep all my LLL.in because I think too that unless you're chinese it's difficult to brand something with numbers.
But what count is the market and at the moment NNN have value and they have value in one of the biggest ccTLD in the world, not in dot KQ or something that only chinese will buy...

 

[domainpundit]

Whoever is saying domain industry is in nascent stage in India is little bit off of the current market scenario as the industry is growing four folds and investors plus companies are paying 5-6 figure USD sum for new acquisitions now a days in a flash.

You have to be here to know what's happening and where..

100% right, market is so growing so fast .. Unfortunately many on this forum couldn't see .. its shame specially many so called Indian domineers cant see the market their home has and writing so naive comments here to mislead .. many people will realize later ( perhaps in a year or two) and will surely regret they have missed the boat.. those who can believe they can walk with us and those who cant believe they can continue to do what they are doing .. good luck.

 

[domainpundit]

...don't fool yourself by thinking numerical .ins are of any interest to anyone except Chinese and those who hope to sell to them..

I am sure you will change your opinion , you are talking about one of the largest populative country code extension having millions of small businesses in the same country. you are not talking about some crap extension. its not far away to change your opinion..

13 reported sales in 7' years (2007-2014) 6 of which is some really funny "private" package sale that took place in 2008 at $588 apiece, then some were dropped and regged again in 2012 (not too long ago contrary to what you said)

Again you are missing important things. .IN names sales will not be reported as many happen in escrow and the sellers never willing to report them for various reasons which even you cant understand, if you are a .IN domainer you will certainly could have realized already this one. i am not talking out of theory or out of belief, i am saying as i can clearly see the offline sales which you cant see..clearly, i have bit of extra information than you have . thats the only difference... I am 200% sure you will not trust me, even i wont mind if you not trust me.. i will do the same when i cant see the data.. the other hand try to buy NNN.in any of any worst quality from the current holders and let me if you are lucky to get any name below 500 , even below 1000 you cant get beyond 100 names.. i bet on it.. go ahead.. so what it means the current owners has some belief their names are worth more and they might have extra bit of information than you have.

 

[Templr]

@Chirag Sorry but I think these are high expectations with the admission that the norm is feasible.

I appreciate you and many want to fly the flag, I too wanted to fly the flag for the UK when broadband was being rolled out back in 2004, and little ole UK are still working hard on high speed bb to all areas let alone 4G.

 

[Kokoro]

..thats what i was trying to say, thanks
(...)
cmon, if not Chinese this thread would not even exist...

This thread would also not exist if US Army didn't invent Internet network to survive nuclear attack. So what's the point?

The Chinese have created a new reality in domaining where no end user is needed at all. Numeric domains are skyrocketing despite of all reason and that's an undisputable fact. How long it will last nobody knows. Scientists say that our universe is also a bubble which will collapse in a distant future. It's up to everybody whether to stay aside and wait when / if it bursts or hop in and make some money while it lasts.

Now back to India, it is worth to remember this is a subcontinent with population almost equal to Chinese (and will surpass China soon). In not so distant future they will have more Internet users than US + Europe combined. With that numbers even a niche domains like NNN.in's may be in demand sooner or later regardless of the Chinese impact. For now the game is led by China but another giant is coming and will change the world economic gravity (look, it's already changing: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/journey-economic-center-world). I would be surprised if the national ccTLD would not follow these developments.

 

[domainpundit]

@Chirag Sorry but I think these are high expectations with the admission that the norm is feasible.

I appreciate you and many want to fly the flag, I too wanted to fly the flag for the UK when broadband was being rolled out back in 2004, and little ole UK are still working hard on high speed bb to all areas let alone 4G.

One important thing you are believing strongly is numbers doesnt matter , only speed matters..
"numbers does make things difference.." this is what i believe in.. India has 1280+ million population and the UK has 60 million population...Its adding more than UK population every year. Indeed UK is one of the few first developed countries ( also lead the worlds colonization) however its population size is much limited, so the organisations who wants to Invest they will think how to get ROI back from limited population size , so their investment sizes also will be in proportion to it , as they couldnt scale up further due to saturation limits.

in terms of India , I also i fully agree with you the speed at village levels in India is perhaps less than 10 MBPS.. but there are lot of nice things i have noticed which may or may not possible in many developed countries too.. let me tell you.. I went to few remote villages a month before as part of my India trip and i have used Airtel 4G hotspot .. the speed is limited however connectivity is in place.. Unlike the developed nations Indian government and privated organisations understand this connectivity issue and betting high on 4G technology and huge amount of investments are made .. I have toured for one month very recently and can see the technology adoption is advancing much better than expected rate at village level. I cant speak for the entire India as its huge country and it take ages to tour across India . at least I can speak for four states i have visited recently - Tamil Nadu, Karantaka, Andhra Pradesh and Telangana ( few selective locations) . all southern states .. all these four roughly has an estimated number of 215+ million population at least and easily over 100+ million internet users.. so lot of opportunities to scale up, so companies does invest money as they know they get ROI.

the other hand one city like newyork or London amounts to lot of business, its a proven fact.. many Indian metros can offer close to 1 GBPS connectivity to businesses.. so the businesses which need speed they can setup their offices from metros .. in terms of people , they can choose the connection speed in metros and remote villages is getting addressed.

An interesting thing i have personally noticed is many internet browsing centers are there in villages too.. for those people who cant access internet they can always take a person who knows how to use internet and pay for the service.. like if they want to place a eCommerce order , those browsing center operators can order on behalf of the customer and pay there immediately and collect the item from browsing center later. which i couldn't see any developed country.. so the message i would like to let you know is business models does evolve as per the need.. also lot of youth power , so they does create new business models inline to the saying of " necessity is the mother of invention".

i have also read your article at oozel.com.. there is one correction i need to bring to your attention.. chinese holds 74+% of NNNN.in names ( a total of only 10000 names can be possible in NNNN.in category) and not across all .IN names.. its never going to be possible as .IN although getting used for different reasons like .INTERNET, .INTERNATIONAL , .INC, .INSTRUMENT, .INvestment..so on .. mainly its indian country code CCTLD... Indians registrations always higher than any other country citizens..

 

[Templr]

@domainpundit Thanks for the heads up on the stats to be corrected.
I would like to see data as I'm a evidence based guy, but hey. And you're right, as in pm, the whole high speed broadband is probably going to take up to ten years to complete.

 

[Templr]

Whoever is saying domain industry is in nascent stage in India is little bit off of the current market scenario as the industry is growing four folds and investors plus companies are paying 5-6 figure USD sum for new acquisitions now a days in a flash.

You have to be here to know what's happening and where..

Misquoted. My article addresses a balance view not usually picked up upon, and is referenced from credible sources, if you read it I actually credit the Indian domain industry; It's also raising concerns on the Digital India Campaign.

https://www.oozel.com/blog/the-indian-domain-name-industry-i-feel-the-need-the-need-for-speed

 

[Suraj Soni]

Being an Indian i personally see that most of the indians don't go for premium domain, and as per NNN.in are concern i have't heard of a single numeric website in India, Indians don't go for Numeric domains, they either by english domain (Second Popular and official Language in India) name or domains which has meaning in Hindi.

So if you guys are looking for nnn domain investment for indian market then it can be a big risk as indians don't establish website on numeric domains and they prefer .com instead of .in.

As per my knowledge Chinese or domainers are the only buyer for the nnn.in.

 

[Michael R.]

Our opinion on NNN.in, NNNN.in, Indian numerology, etc... is not really important.
Question is: is there a market? Answer is yes since sales and buyouts happen.

And market price of these domains will be determined by public auctions in the next months.
And people involved into .in are already aware of some interesting private sales.

The market decides, not domainers, and especially not us.

 

[Silentptnr]

I imagine that Indian end users are no different than any other end users. Very few end users build websites using numeric domains, in any extension, any where on earth presently. The recent increase in numeric domain transactions fueled mostly by Chinese domain investors, has gone beyond .com and has reached into many other extensions, perhaps including .in. Additionally, this relatively recent surge in domain investing activity is thought to be only a fraction of what is to come, I imagine, from many different countries around the world in the future.

 

[Templr]

@JeanClaude

"The market decides, not domainers, and especially not us"

The marketplace will be at domainer/industy level and it will be a pyramid. imo

 

[Michael R.]

@JeanClaude

"The market decides, not domainers, and especially not us"

The marketplace will be at domainer/industy level and it will be a pyramid. imo

Maybe...

But I would like to confront your point of view (shared by many in 2005, even for .com domains) with this article: http://tldinvestors.com/2015/04/num...nnn-10-years-later-interview-with-paxton.html

Another interesting data is NNNN.de sales: http://namebio.com/?s=AMwEDO1IzM
Many .de sales are not reported, and no one cares on this forum, but you can see some pretty nice NNNN.de sales reported from time to time. And I'm pretty sure there is a buyout too for them.

Note that India population is 15 times more than German population... Anybody is free to think that NNNN.in has no value, and that they will give birth to a pyramidal system... But I don't share this point of view, especially in the long them.

 

[domaindia]

All this .in talk is getting me giddy...

I'd have to say domainpundit is probably one of the top authorities for the NNN, NNNN, LLL and LLLL .in market, as he holds a nice portfolio of those particular investments, and sees the interest level based on inbound inquiries... I respect the feedback that if the 'Chinese' did not invest in #'s, this thread would probably not exist.....yet. Maybe not so soon, but eventually when the supply of these nnn and lll shrunk up as is the case now... the demand will also increase from investors in general not just chinese...which we are witnessing.

I am not a .in NNN, NNNN, LLL or LLLL specialist (have a few hundred, nothing close to domainpundit), instead have focused my investments in keyword .ins, and base my feedback on those (few thousand). My top reasons for believing .in.

#1) Instead of receiving 1-2 inquiries a week on my names as I was a year ago....I now am shocked if I don't receive an inquiry every day...multiple inquiries daily is common...sure lots of lowball offers - but nevertheless offers need to start somewhere.
#2) When you can say "NO" to a 20X return on your money and expect 50X+ instead... you're on the right track.
#3) Companies are understanding more that if they are doing business in India and they have the .com, they should most likely get the .in to complement it, or a strong keyword that defines their industry...evidenced by the inquiries received from .com companies.
#4) LLL.in's were easily available a year ago for $25+. Today you will not find a seller selling their LLL.in's for less than $75....that too in the reseller market. I am a buyer of LLL.ins at $75. Will take any combination - it doesn't matter. By next year this time, LLL.in will be at $100 minimum....guaranteed.
#5) Chinese 'chips' and Indian 'chips' are different. We don't mind 0's and 4's in our NNN or NNNN's, unless we're selling to the Chinese, but when Indians are selling to Indians - there is no discrimination there. Sure we may take into account the fact that it may be harder to liquidate to just Indians, and adjust based on that, but those numbers don't have a negative connotation in the Indian culture as far as I know. We prefer to have the letter 'i' in our LLL or LLLL's, and prefer it to be either in the beginning for 'India' or at the end for 'Indian'. To us its more of a bitcoin type of investment, where as the years pass and the supply shrinks, regardless of the letters... the prices will increase.

====

On the other side of the coin... the laissez faire attitude the in registry and NIXI have taken is not helping the case of the .in. They have the opportunity to put .in in the same sentence as .me (Montenegro) and .co (Columbia). These countries are promoting their extensions heavily for "me" and "company" respectively...and are reaping the rewards. If the registry would just open its eyes to the rest of the world and see the opportunity that .in presents itself beyond just India. As domainpundit has pointed out... .in for international, internet, infrastructure, incorporate....literally .infinite possibilities. As .investors, developers, believers in .in, there is only so much we can do to bring about the awareness and the opportunities .in presents itself. Unless NIXI and the .in registry step up their game, growth will be there but at the current rate...

 

[Templr]

Maybe...

But I would like to confront your point of view (shared by many in 2005, even for .com domains) with this article: http://tldinvestors.com/2015/04/num...nnn-10-years-later-interview-with-paxton.html

Another interesting data is NNNN.de sales: http://namebio.com/?s=AMwEDO1IzM
Many .de sales are not reported, and no one cares on this forum, but you can see some pretty nice NNNN.de sales reported from time to time. And I'm pretty sure there is a buyout too for them.

Note that India population is 15 times more than German population... Anybody is free to think that NNNN.in has no value, and that they will give birth to a pyramidal system... But I don't share this point of view, especially in the long them.

Ah confront sounds a little aggressive, let's assume you're more passive on this occasion

1) I don't know what you want me to say about the article, I do admire vision though. But numeric .com are here now anyway.

2) There are only '10' 4N.de recorded from 2009-2013 this does not give any validity. It is not consistent as 4N.tv for example but the prices were higher in .de as they currently sell for in .tv.
.de has always been a strong ccTLD.

3) I don't believe I said that numeric .in did not have any value. I don't believe I made an opinion.

4) Population growth - numbers, just keep getting the net speed up Modi.

 

[Michael R.]

Ah confront sounds a little aggressive, let's assume you're more passive on this occasion

1) I don't know what you want me to say about the article, I do admire vision though. But numeric .com are here now anyway.

2) There are only '10' 4N.de recorded from 2009-2013 this does not give any validity. It is not consistent as 4N.tv for example but the prices were higher in .de as they currently sell for in .tv.
.de has always been a strong ccTLD.

3) I don't believe I said that numeric .in did not have any value. In fact I didn't. I don't believe I made an opinion.

4) Population growth - numbers, just keep at making the net speed up Modi.

I didn't use this term in a aggressive way. Sorry, my English is far from being perfect.

1) You said numerical .in will be a domainer pyramidal system.
Some people were arguing the same thing for .com 10 years ago. Article shows that whereas some were wondering if there will be a market for numeric .com, others were registering valuable domains.

And note that, since nearly all NNNN.com were available in 2000, market was non existant. A reseller AND end user market appeared later.

2) No, sorry, .de has not always been a strong extension. In 1986, it was a weak extension, like .com.
But the potential was huge. Exactly like for .in.

3) You said numerical .in market will be a pyramid. This implicitly means that numeric .in has no intrinsec value.
If the value of an asset increases, there is no pyramidal system.

4) I think that no one will challenge the fact that .cn is one of the strongest ccTLD, right?

Then compare position of China and India here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Internet_connection_speeds
Both are at the bottom of the table.

But note that India has more people surfing above 10 Mb/s than China, and also more people surfing above 15 Mb/s than China, but India average speed is still below China.

My point is: ultra fast Internet is not mandatory to develop a numeric ecosystem linked to a strong ccTLD. And speed is improving in India: detailed figures of Internet speed distribution are surprising compared to China, right ?

By the way, are you investing into .in ?

 

[domainpundit]

Ah confront sounds a little aggressive, let's assume you're more passive on this occasion

1) I don't know what you want me to say about the article, I do admire vision though. But numeric .com are here now anyway.

2) There are only '10' 4N.de recorded from 2009-2013 this does not give any validity. It is not consistent as 4N.tv for example but the prices were higher in .de as they currently sell for in .tv.
.de has always been a strong ccTLD.

3) I don't believe I said that numeric .in did not have any value. I don't believe I made an opinion.

4) Population growth - numbers, just keep getting the net speed up Modi.

.DE is not a strong CCTLD from day 1, it took couple of years to reach that stage. India had poor internet infrastructure a decade back when .IN was originally made available for general public , specially the last five years have been quite important times where the internet infrastructure has massively improved , still improving and will improve to match to the global standards. In Short there is a strong future for India's internet based businesses.

Numberic .IN's will increase and Indians also will use them in future.. the other hand I strongly believe LLL.in are heavily used in India already and they are ROCK SOLID assets in Indian context and very rare assets.. If i have surplus funds i will always happy to acquire NNN, LLL , NNNN , LLLL names. these are categories i strongly believe in and continue pursue my passion in the same.

the other hand i agree the Internet speed in general in India is slower at moment compare to developed nations like US or UK however its important to note massive investments are pouring into the same area as every one knows the same has to be improved in order to facilitate a TRUE DIGITAL INDIA success..