strategy How to Find Potential End Users?

[shilmy]

Hi,

Do any of you has regularly sell your domain to end users? If so, do you mind share with me in this thread on how find potential end users for your domain?

Regards,
Sjarief

 

[garptrader]

JoshuaPZ that is useful information to hear though obviously I could only dream of having that sort of hit rate. If your business focuses on selling the exact .COM equivalent to the .Net owner perhaps that would partially explain making one sale for fewer than 20 emails. But it would seem there are limited opportunities to do that. One domainer shared with me he sends up to 100 emails per domain and rarely prices above $500. When you try to hit a grand slam home run, you often strike out. But Federer has been selling a number of domains which aren't .COMs and at fairly attractive sell points. So it would still seem he must be either contacting a large number of end users or making a special effort to get to the decision maker. I'm still guilty of relying on Whois and the website email contacts so perhaps many of my emails only see the delete button. I marketed some geo domains this week primarily to real estate agents advertising with Adwords. We'll see what response I get in the coming weeks.

 

[skulldude]

JoshuaPZ that is useful information to hear though obviously I could only dream of having that sort of hit rate. If your business focuses on selling the exact .COM equivalent to the .Net owner perhaps that would partially explain making one sale for fewer than 20 emails. But it would seem there are limited opportunities to do that. One domainer shared with me he sends up to 100 emails per domain and rarely prices above $500. When you try to hit a grand slam home run, you often strike out. But Federer has been selling a number of domains which aren't .COMs and at fairly attractive sell points. So it would still seem he must be either contacting a large number of end users or making a special effort to get to the decision maker. I'm still guilty of relying on Whois and the website email contacts so perhaps many of my emails only see the delete button. I marketed some geo domains this week primarily to real estate agents advertising with Adwords. We'll see what response I get in the coming weeks.

That's all I send to is the whois and website email contacts and my sales haven't been too bad, with about a 1 to 2 in 10 response rate. I've only been in this business for less than 3 months, so I'm pretty new to this.

The most emails I ever sent out was 50 and that was for a lot of 4 domains and I got about 5 replies. I think it really comes down to the quality of the domain your buying and how well it relates to your enduser.

 

[JoshuaPz]

If your business focuses on selling the exact .COM equivalent to the .Net owner perhaps that would partially explain making one sale for fewer than 20 emails. But it would seem there are limited opportunities to do that.

The nature of our targeted pitching is more complicated than this, but yes, my clients and I have access to special technology than makes many opportunities of this flavor available. Still, I think you could achieve the same response rate by catching product/service generics on the drop and quick-flipping them to end-users who offers that product/service as their primary business. If you read NP's sales thread carefully, this is essentially what Federer and I do.

One domainer shared with me he sends up to 100 emails per domain and rarely prices above $500. When you try to hit a grand slam home run, you often strike out. But Federer has been selling a number of domains which aren't .COMs and at fairly attractive sell points. So it would still seem he must be either contacting a large number of end users or making a special effort to get to the decision maker. I'm still guilty of relying on Whois and the website email contacts so perhaps many of my emails only see the delete button.

Federer probably employs these tactics, coated with an air self-confidence, class, and personal integrity when approaching end-users to achieve his level of success. But I can promise you that his success rate, and my clients', have far more to do with the domains we choose to register than our approach. Federer has a sharp eye for domains with commercial viability, combined with a patience that allows him to scour drop lists for hours upon hours to secure top bargains. Domainers focus far too much on domain syntax & statistics (e.g. keyword search volume) and far too little on domain semantics. This is why most domainers fail.

It's also important to be aware that for every domain name Federer reports as having sold, there are probably 5-10 others he has attempted to quick-flip but failed. Check NamePros' sales threads for giant lists of domains he's attempted to liquidate in bulk, for example. In scanning the NP sales thread you're only gathering his list of successes, not his success rate. But the beauty of end-user selling is that you can double your investment in weeks even if you sell only 1 in every 10 domains you catch for an amount within the traditional $200-$500 quick-flip "sweet spot".

---------- Post added at 12:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:50 AM ----------

think it really comes down to the quality of the domain your buying and how well it relates to your enduser.

Bingo.

 

[FPForum]

sorry but i was lost here.

are you talking about how many emails are needed between an end-user and you for completing an unique sale OR the win ratio on domains sold, that is, in 10 domains catch you sell 1? this last figure is important and would be great if you could share it.

regards,
tonecas

Sorry I meant sometimes for every 10 emails I send on a name I get one response..sometimes its a little higher, just depends on the name.

 

[garptrader]

It is also interesting to note your comment that even those domainers who sell a large number of domains still find themselves liquidating domains. Most domainers with much lower turnover will typically renew their better names and consider dropping those that might be more difficult to sell. But another high-volume domainer seems to confirm the practice of an extensive marketing campaign for domains in the initial months and then if noone is interested, the name goes through various stages of discounting and liquidation. Renewals seem to be less common among those who sell large numbers of domains and not necessarily because they have few unsold domains when renewal time comes around.

 

[Soofi]

Joshua, you have been doing some decent GOOD to this thread..

thanks for the valuable input so far!!

 

[Jaco]

Domainers focus far too much on domain syntax & statistics (e.g. keyword search volume) and far too little on domain semantics. This is why most domainers fail.

This is absolutely true.

 

[MicroGuy]

Domainers focus far too much on domain syntax & statistics (e.g. keyword search volume) and far too little on domain semantics. This is why most domainers fail.

True. And many of us are guilty of focusing far too much on domain forums.

 

[JoshuaPz]

True. And many of us are guilty of focusing far too much on domain forums.

Yes, I am guilty of that and then some. I think my days around these parts are finally drawing to a close.

 

[skulldude]

Here is a response I got back from a potential enduser today. It is for a fairly brandable keyword domain. He initially responded to my email and asked about the benefits of a domain I was pitching him, I responded and then did not hear from him for a few days. So, I followed up with him and he sent me the reply below. Do you think it is worth following up with him and trying to give him some more benefits? I am not really sure how to respond to this email any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Here is the email:

"We are not interested in purchasing that domain, (owners name) already has an established branding on his current URL through Television, Yellow Pages and a wide variety of other advertising mediums. His current web site is already dominant in every search engine and bringing a new URL has no SEO value. I do like the domain name for branding purposes, you would be better off going after an up and coming business that has no branding but are looking to get their name out there.

(owners name) is not interested in a “landing page” strategy as this is “old school SEM”, we may have been interested in the URL for an additional Web Site, however, the URL is not aged so has little value to us.

I assure you there is no shortage of other businesses that may be interested in this Domain for Branding purposes.

Good luck,

(their name)"

 

[Soofi]

That's a NO from what I see in this email, if it's not a generic term and there is no seo value to it!!

good luck!

Here is a response I got back from a potential enduser today. It is for a fairly brandable keyword domain. He initially responded to my email and asked about the benefits of a domain I was pitching him, I responded and then did not hear from him for a few days. So, I followed up with him and he sent me the reply below. Do you think it is worth following up with him and trying to give him some more benefits? I am not really sure how to respond to this email any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Here is the email:

"We are not interested in purchasing that domain, (owners name) already has an established branding on his current URL through Television, Yellow Pages and a wide variety of other advertising mediums. His current web site is already dominant in every search engine and bringing a new URL has no SEO value. I do like the domain name for branding purposes, you would be better off going after an up and coming business that has no branding but are looking to get their name out there.

(owners name) is not interested in a “landing page” strategy as this is “old school SEM”, we may have been interested in the URL for an additional Web Site, however, the URL is not aged so has little value to us.

I assure you there is no shortage of other businesses that may be interested in this Domain for Branding purposes.

Good luck,

(their name)"

 

[skulldude]

That's a NO from what I see in this email, if it's not a generic term and there is no seo value to it!!

good luck!

It's a generic term (so there would be seo value), I just don't think he see's the seo value in it, because their site is already ranked in the top results for that term and related terms. I just wasn't sure if there was anything else you could say here.

 

[Soofi]

It's a generic term (so there would be seo value), I just don't think he see's the seo value in it, because their site is already ranked in the top results for that term and related terms. I just wasn't sure if there was anything else you could say here.

In that case, you can show him/her the potential visitors they have been losing through type-ins for not owning the domain name,a nd I'm sure he/she would realize that cuz anyone in the right frame of mind cant really ignore the exact phrase used in their business !!

care pm'n me the name?

 

[skulldude]

In that case, you can show him/her the potential visitors they have been losing through type-ins for not owning the domain name,a nd I'm sure he/she would realize that cuz anyone in the right frame of mind cant really ignore the exact phrase used in their business !!

care pm'n me the name?

I just pm'd you. thanks

 

[Soofi]

I just pm'd you. thanks

Thanks Skull, I personally would never go after the said domain name cuz of its length, however it could be category killer for its niche for the right person.

If their business is related tothe niche, they should just buy it and redirect to their original domain name/site IMHO.

 

[tonecas]

hi skulldude,

Here is a response I got back from a potential enduser today. It is for a fairly brandable keyword domain. He initially responded to my email and asked about the benefits of a domain I was pitching him, I responded and then did not hear from him for a few days. So, I followed up with him and he sent me the reply below. Do you think it is worth following up with him and trying to give him some more benefits? I am not really sure how to respond to this email any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

that is a definitive and clear NO. unless you show them some number really great about that domain them forget those guys as they know what they do.

move on to other options or keep the domain.

regards,
tonecas

 

[JoshuaPz]

Here is a response I got back from a potential enduser today. It is for a fairly brandable keyword domain. He initially responded to my email and asked about the benefits of a domain I was pitching him, I responded and then did not hear from him for a few days. So, I followed up with him and he sent me the reply below. Do you think it is worth following up with him and trying to give him some more benefits? I am not really sure how to respond to this email any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Did you cite him a price? If so, shave off 30-40% and state that you had the the resulting amount in mind as your "final offer".

Have you sold a competitive generic term to an end-user in the past that now ranks well on Google for the exact match term? Is the site ranking well on Alexa / Compete.com? If so, retort with this example and explain the high Alexa / Compete.com ranking is clearly attributable to the domain name itself.

Otherwise, I agree with tonecas: move on. He is sort of right about the notion of building landing pages being "old school" SEO -- i.e. throwing money, low-PR backlinks, and landing pages at the problem instead of creating genuinely valuable content, and I happen to agree with his point of view. He clearly put a lot of thought into his answer and knows far more than you do about SEO and its relation to his business. You would only make a fool out of yourself trying outsmart or outmaneuver him here.

 

[Soofi]

Did you cite him a price? If so, shave off 30-40% and state that you had the the resulting amount in mind as your "final offer".

Have you sold a competitive generic term to an end-user in the past that now ranks well on Google for the exact match term? Is the site ranking well on Alexa / Compete.com? If so, retort with this example and explain the high Alexa / Compete.com ranking is clearly attributable to the domain name itself.

Otherwise, I agree with tonecas: move on. He is sort of right about the notion of building landing pages being "old school" SEO -- i.e. throwing money, low-PR backlinks, and landing pages at the problem instead of creating genuinely valuable content, and I happen to agree with his point of view. He clearly put a lot of thought into his answer and knows far more than you do about SEO and its relation to his business. You would only make a fool out of yourself trying outsmart or outmaneuver him here.

Josh, i couldnt convince him with my answer cuz i didnt know how to put them in better words, but you did the best job again here as usual!

And if you'd know about the domain name, your opinion will stress on not wasting anymore time on the domain name IMHO

+rep added

 

[skulldude]

Thanks for the replies tonecas, josh, and dont.net. Without all of your help and honest responses I couldn't get better at this. I am really trying to grasp and get better at understanding SEO, so I can better market these domains.

If you don't mind I wanted to ask a few questions:

Is there ever a time when an enduser might want to use a landing page and not consider it a waste of time?

Assuming the enduser you are selling to has a well developed site and ranks well for the majority of their main search terms, is there any other benefits that you can explain to the enduser for a strong keyword generic domain other than just redirecting to their site for type in traffic or building an additional website?

Also, in the letter I posted up the potential customer mentioned that he would have been interested if the url was aged. Do aged domains affect SEO, as I have read in some places that they don't or why would he care about this?

Sorry about all the questions, thanks again.

 

[IGetMoney]

I've had my best luck with Flippa, but i hate their frickin fees. They SUCK.

 

[krx]

For quick-flips, consider domain industry market cap over anything else. Yachts sell for much more that paperclips, for example. I would avoid food-industry and religion-oriented domains entirely, unless you're lucky enough to own a domain like Jesus.net.

Next, consider keywords search volume and PPC.

Other factors like # of TLDs taken, age, etc. are tertiary factors you could employ as bargaining chips.

IMO, only purchase domains for which 4+ highly targetable, well-established end-user candidates already exists. If XYZ.com has 3 potential end-user candidates and the best-off one generates only $50,000 in sales per year, XYZ.com is not going to sell for more than $150 or so. Your quick-flip earnings are bounded by how much your potential end-user candidates are (1) able and (2) willing to pay (whichever of the two amounts is smaller).

Some very helpful material in this thread. A couple questions if I may...

Avoiding religious domains needs no explanation (ie, you'll be competing with the Sunday school snack fund) but not sure I see why you recommend avoiding the food industry. Could you expound on that a bit?

The religious bit makes me wonder what percentage of non-profits you target in general, if any? Do you proceed any differently with them?

I have more recently come to place primacy on number of PPC ads (which I get from estibot) in valuing prospective buys. Is that what you mean by PPC (above) or are you referring to max CPC bid amount, as provided by adwords keyword tool?

Thanks!

 

[fm1234]

Quick-flipping generic religious domains is difficult (I own two that I've always thought were great ... running up on four years now for one of them and about to renew the other for the second time.) The problem is that churches and other spiritual organisations, while generally operating with some kind of advertising budget, are generally not interested in the business aspects of what might make a given domain better for their organisation. For any given church, the vast majority of its foot traffic comes from word-of-mouth "promotion" by members and attendees. No amount of SEO or brandability is going to put a dent in the proportion of the church's traffic that comes from simple p2p promotion.

Where I have had success with this type of domain is in doing basic development on geo+kw domains, and on "issues" domains (explained below.) There are many different approaches for this, all of which are easy to put together and which are simple enough to find a target buyer -- and I do not see it being done a lot, so it's sort of an open market (at least in the U.S.)

A "business fellowship directory" (for lack of a better term) is nothing more than a typical geolocal business directory that is donation-supported by businesses and professionals who belong to the church. The money presumably goes to whatever missions and such the church manages. It's a soft sell for the businesses, because even if the efficacy of the site is marginal, they are supporting a cause towards which they probably would have tossed a little money anyway. It's a soft sell to the church because they will likely make money off of it right off the bat, as the usual "front line donors" who exist in any given nfp organisation will jump at any new opportunity to write a cheque.

"Issues" domains are harder to develop, but finding a given hot button issue which non-profits (churches and otherwise) tend to try to tackle, adding on a geo prefix/suffix and building a basic content site with information on how to donate to stop this problem In! Your! Area! is a fairly straightforward procedure, and finding the organisation or organisations in that geo area that are working on the issue is an easy task. Avoid anything that involves political lobbying or social issues over which people can get crazy, eg. abortion. But homelessness, child literacy, drug use, runaways, you name the issue and in any city of any size there is a potential market for a donation-supported information sites.

Again, this is a seriously undertapped market in my opinion, at least in the US. It's not quick flipping, but the work involved is pretty minimal, especially if you already have experience putting together basic sites.


Frank

 

[FPForum]

I'm a little curious what type of approach some of you take when you receive multiple responses? Say you send out 15 emails in one night. The next morning you wake up to 3 different responses asking what you are wanting for the domain. What type of response do you give them? Do you tell them multiple people are interested? Do you give the first chance of getting the name to the person who responded first?

 

[Soofi]

I'm a little curious what type of approach some of you take when you receive multiple responses? Say you send out 15 emails in one night. The next morning you wake up to 3 different responses asking what you are wanting for the domain. What type of response do you give them? Do you tell them multiple people are interested? Do you give the first chance of getting the name to the person who responded first?

FP, I personally haven't experienced this yet, however I would strongly recommend putting a word in about multiple parties interested in the domain name to create quick deal interest!! :sold:

 

[skulldude]

I'm a little curious what type of approach some of you take when you receive multiple responses? Say you send out 15 emails in one night. The next morning you wake up to 3 different responses asking what you are wanting for the domain. What type of response do you give them? Do you tell them multiple people are interested? Do you give the first chance of getting the name to the person who responded first?

I've had this happen quite a few times actually. Typically I just tell them something along the lines of that I've had quite a bit of interest in the domain so far and that the domain is being sold on a first come first purchase basis. I might set my price a bit higher as well depending on the domain and how much interest there is.

If they make me an offer below my asking price, that I am not completely satisfied with, I email the other parties that I received an offer of xxx and if they are interested, to put in a higher offer within next 24 to 48 hours.