question How do end users find names?

[NameGroove]

I can see Sedo has search functionality. So as an example, let's say an architectural company wants to find a name with architect in it. They can go to Sedo search and search for domains with that term. Whether they know of Sedo is another issue - but at least it exists. https://sedo.com/search/?language=us&keyword=architect

On Dan/Afternic/GoDaddy - is there any way for an end user to search for names with a keyword? The only search functionality I can find on GD is to type a keyword; e.g., "architect" and it shows TLDs with that specific keyword. But it doesn't show coolarchitect.com, hiparchitect.com, etc, like it does on Sedo. Is there any way for end users to search terms with a keyword in them (like on Sedo)?

Or do they have to come up with the names on their own and type them in?

 

[NameGroove]

You’re describing brandable marketplaces like Atom and BrandBucket

Yes, that's exactly what I'm describing. I get many names listed on Atom and BB to market as described. However, there are 2 issues. One, not all names get chosen to be listed on those platforms. And there are 2 types I'm left with after being denied on both (fully brandable names without an anchor keyword) which become almost worthless when not chosen (which is fine - just saying). And words with an anchor keyword in them (like the architecture example). Since both those marketplaces are for brandables they generally choose names that are more generic (not JRArchitects) as @biggie described above. So if I hold JRArchitects (or anything really... HippyArchitects, etc), and it's not chosen - it is very difficult for an end user to find (unless they come up with the exact same name). They may, but it can take many years.

I believe there is a marketplace for end users who don't know they want HippyArchitects until they see it (and most of the names like this will not be chosen for Atom or BB). GD could make this so easy by offering search functionality similar to Sedo (which most people don't know of). But of course GD is in the business of selling hand regs and not aftermarket sales. @Bob Hawkes I agree, GD has directed it's marketing intentionally - although it is weird to me since they make commission on aftermarket sales. That is to say, they could so easily offer a way to allow end users some search for aftermarket names - and since they make commission it's in their best interest to do so.

 

[NameGroove]

This is an important topic, and thank you for starting it @Sperry8.

A number of years ago I summarized some of the many ways that people can find your names in this article.
https://www.namepros.com/blog/the-many-ways-people-might-discover-your-domain-name.1196876/

I think which are important depends a lot on the type of name. If you have a generic or service/product match name, as long as they can reach you through a lander or Whois it may not make much difference, although a marketplace and registration stream has to held the sell-through rate.

For a made-up brandable name the odds of someone independently coming up with exactly the name and getting to a lander are low, so you need to visibility of being on a brandable marketplace, or on a standard one if it has good and smart search, and if there is an anchor word that might be searched for.

Despite their protestations about only 1% of sales come that way, I can't help but think that abandoning search at Afternic will not have a big impact on them, and on those of us who sell there.

Let's say I have a name EXAMPLE in a middling TLD like .cc or .me. In the old Afternic search, if somesone searched on Afternic these options would show on page 1. Even if the buyer had come in thinking they wanted the .com or .io, they would see the other options right there.

Also, with GoDaddy search matches across the dot are never shown unless the dot is included and whole name given, or unless the name is available as a hand registration. These aftermarket match type names have at one swoosh of the corporate decision making become essentially impossible to find in GD/Afternic.

-Bob

I just found on your old blog post this:

https://www.google.com/search?sca_e...d=1t:200715&ictx=111&biw=1152&bih=629&dpr=2.5

It's a very cool way to find/search for Architect names - although not sure many end users know about it. Would be great if Atom and BrandBucket could expand to the google searches (outside the shopping tab)

 

[Kyle Tully]

Yes, that's exactly what I'm describing. I get many names listed on Atom and BB to market as described. However, there are 2 issues. One, not all names get chosen to be listed on those platforms. And there are 2 types I'm left with after being denied on both (fully brandable names without an anchor keyword) which become almost worthless when not chosen (which is fine - just saying). And words with an anchor keyword in them (like the architecture example). Since both those marketplaces are for brandables they generally choose names that are more generic (not JRArchitects) as @biggie described above. So if I hold JRArchitects (or anything really... HippyArchitects, etc), and it's not chosen - it is very difficult for an end user to find (unless they come up with the exact same name). They may, but it can take many years.

I believe there is a marketplace for end users who don't know they want HippyArchitects until they see it (and most of the names like this will not be chosen for Atom or BB). GD could make this so easy by offering search functionality similar to Sedo (which most people don't know of). But of course GD is in the business of selling hand regs and not aftermarket sales. @Bob Hawkes I agree, GD has directed it's marketing intentionally - although it is weird to me since they make commission on aftermarket sales. That is to say, they could so easily offer a way to allow end users some search for aftermarket names - and since they make commission it's in their best interest to do so.

Maybe you need to create your own marketplace for these names. If you believe they just need to get in front of end users then whip up a landing page and start bidding on keywords.

But I suspect you’ll have a much easier time domain investing if you buy the types of names other people are already buying.

 

[NameGroove]

Maybe you need to create your own marketplace for these names. If you believe they just need to get in front of end users then whip up a landing page and start bidding on keywords.

But I suspect you’ll have a much easier time domain investing if you buy the types of names other people are already buying.

That is likely all true. But if we all followed that advice there would be an unserved market. How can end users find brandables then? In the world you painted, they'd have to make them up themselves (if they weren't listed on BB or Atom already). Another unserved market would be services. An architect may not be creative enough to come up with an interesting name. But he may know it when he sees it. How does Etsy name itself? Did they find that name or create it? Even if they created it - others search for it and find it (already made).

You are also missing huge segments of what is bought and sold with your position. 4L names are big business, but how does one search for them? In your world, you can't own em since a user doesn't know it wants "etsy" til it sees it.

 

[Kyle Tully]

That is likely all true. But if we all followed that advice there would be an unserved market. How can end users find brandables then? In the world you painted, they'd have to make them up themselves (if they weren't listed on BB or Atom already). Another unserved market would be services. An architect may not be creative enough to come up with an interesting name. But he may know it when he sees it. How does Etsy name itself? Did they find that name or create it? Even if they created it - others search for it and find it (already made).

You are also missing huge segments of what is bought and sold with your position. 4L names are big business, but how does one search for them? In your world, you can't own em since a user doesn't know it wants "etsy" til it sees it.

My position is based on data and how to make money. I have no concerns about creating a beautiful utopia where random brandables can be found, beyond what already exists. If you do by all means go for it.

 

[NameGroove]

My position is based on data and how to make money. I have no concerns about creating a beautiful utopia where random brandables can be found, beyond what already exists. If you do by all means go for it.

Your "data" is missing many sales then. Because 4 & 5L sales are good business. I'm not asking for utopia... just better search-ability offered by GD (who controls most of the aftermarket). Further, even within the segment we agree upon, it would still help that segment to sell faster as well.

Anyway, no need to go round and round. I was just wondering if I was missing something (whether there was a way for end users to easily find names). It appears there is not (beyond Atom, BB, and Sedo search). Obviously I must work within what exists, not what I'd like to exist.

 

[Edukar]

Anyway, no need to go round and round. I was just wondering if I was missing something (whether there was a way for end users to easily find names). It appears there is not (beyond Atom, BB, and Sedo search). Obviously I must work within what exists, not what I'd like to exist.

Domainers are not silent sheep. We will not be silent. We have the right to demand from GD to return an intuitive search at Afternic, because this site has most sales.

 

[Jannes]

Would you be willing to give GD a 25 percent commission if they introduce a great aftermarket search experience? I bet they are thinking about it, and actually were already thinking about it when they nixed the AN search.

 

[Edukar]

Would you be willing to give GD a 25 percent commission, if they introduce a great aftermarket search experience? I bet they are thinking about it right now.

Yes of course. This comission don't amaze me. I sell domains at Atom :0) I do not need a commission of 10-15% if no one sees my domains. I will prefer a marketplace where there is a good search, which will be convenient for customers and sellers

 

[NameGroove]

Yes of course. This comission don't amaze me. I sell domains at Atom :0) I do not need a commission of 10-15% if no one sees my domains. I will prefer a marketplace where there is a good search, which will be convenient for customers and sellers

Agreed. I already pay 30% commission at BB and Atom. I pay extra because they get me sales I otherwise wouldn't get. If GD had something similar, I see no reason I wouldn't pay a higher commission for a subset of my names that otherwise would have trouble getting noticed

 

[biggie]

similar to Sedo (which most people don't know of)

Hi

how many is "most people"?

cuz, i've been using them since 2004.


imo...

 

[NameGroove]

Hi

how many is "most people"?

cuz, i've been using them since 2004.


imo...

fair point. I just assume most end-users don't know to use them to search for domains they want to buy. I would expect among the domaining industry they would be more well known. Of course, I could be wrong

 

[biggie]

I just assume most end-users don't know to use them

Hi

i could point to some of my past sales there, which are being "end used" and no doubt many other sellers could do so as well.
ie: hdc/net > upyo/com

suggest you follow the money on the sales to see what is done with the domain, after the transaction.

imo...

 

[Samer]

https://www.namepros.com/threads/how-to-find-potential-end-users.68798/#post-446965

 

[Edukar]

GD did not just remove the domain search at Afternic. It slowly kills this useful rnarketplace. I decided to check the domain Evoke.co listed at Afternic, and GD search gives all TLDs except for this domain. By the way, it costs $ 125,000! It’s just terrible - a beautiful domain registered by Godaddy itself, ain't visible at market in the search by the word! Bravo!

PS Open Godaddy.com and type Evoke.
You'll never find Evoke.co
GD search really sucks!

 

[Kyle Tully]

GD did not just remove the domain search at Afternic. It slowly kills this useful rnarketplace. I decided to check the domain Evoke.co listed at Afternic, and GD search gives all TLDs except for this domain. By the way, it costs $ 125,000! It’s just terrible - a beautiful domain registered by Godaddy itself, ain't visible at market in the search by the word! Bravo!

PS Open Godaddy.com and type Evoke.
You'll never find Evoke.co
GD search really sucks!

Maybe they’re just filtering out insane domain prices that 99.999% of people searching for evoke are never going to buy.

If they want evoke.co they can type it in and it pops right up.

 

[Edukar]

Maybe they’re just filtering out insane domain prices that 99.999% of people searching for evoke are never going to buy.

If they want evoke.co they can type it in and it pops right up.

No my friend it ain;t so. They show evoke.net for $50,000
and other TLDs. This is a big bug.
Now I checked other dictionary domains f.e. Cigar.co for $24,888
And when I type Cigar in search .... drum roll... I see many nice domains but no cigar.co. Wonder that I found cigarbar.co but no that I really did not find that I typed. If I write to all domain dot CO owners that their domains cannot be found at Godaddy/Afternic, I think they will decide to list their domains in another marketplaces. If GD will not fix this great bug of course.

However, it is impossible write to every domainer, I hope this info will be placed on a well -known domain blog, so that thousands of domainers will get acquainted with it. I am responsible for my words. Everyone can check that I am telling the truth. If we are silent, GD will not do anything

 

[trelgor]

Domainers manage to search terms while end users do not. End users that mean business (looking to build a brand) want and need a name, not a flat and square literal description. The ones that have already built one or settled for one need the exact match in dotcom.

That is where the majority of financial means are, brand identity. No argument. And there is no reason not to believe that this definition of the market dwarfs the current search keyword-geared and limited aftermarket.

Within the aftermarket apparatus at large, the kind of intelligent search required to adequately enough incorporate "targeted imagination" does not exist. Atom have been trying to create something, but from my perspective, generative AI seems to come up short. The registrar "attempts" are merely laughable.

A hellbent unrelenting visionary is required. Few and far between anywhere, but even more so in domains. Complacency and backwardness rules supreme.

TM pundits have argued that depletion and congestion are not threats for a long time still. But the growth of the value of a brand is the strongest upward tendency on the planet. And brand name identities are not random. They have centers of gravity. No one would pick "SOPRGH".

Niches and hypes come and go, but possessing the mental infrastructure of a functional brand identity will only increase in value. With domains the technical infrastructure of the internet also comes into play. It's an incredible combínation of infrastructures. You need both, you can't compromise and expect to win.

I just wonder how old I'm going to have to grow before reality dawns on the domain industry and someone comes along with the game changer, which has to revolve around search for new identities to embody, as well as efficiently empowering acquisitions of more "taken" identities held by smaller fry than the best buyer.

I guess then they will be acquired by Godaddy and mothballed and exterminated.

 

[Bravo Mod Team]

Or do they have to come up with the names on their own and type them in?

Largely, yes.

There isn't much out there in terms of assisted discovery that's used by end users, but here are a few that exist:

1. Flippa
2. NameStall.com
3. InstantDomainSearch.com

If we add up all the traffic to those sites, plus every other discovery marketplace that we've heard about (e.g., Sedo), the total user count is a negligible size of the end-user market. That's why services like Dofo couldn't survive by trying to serve them.

Here's our opinion based on decades of experience:

A very small fraction of end-user sales happen from discovery. Domain discovery is mostly used by domainers for acquisitions, not by end-users. That's why it doesn't make sense to give marketplaces a large percentage of your sales. The only time paying 10-30% of your sale makes sense is if a full-service domain brokerage is assisting you.

In order to be a stable and successful domain investor for the foreseeable future, you cannot depend on other companies to sell your domains. You must purchase domains that sell themselves. Otherwise, a big company can flip a switch and put you out of business at any moment. That big company could be Verisign, GoDaddy, etc.

Our landers are designed to help you succeed.

---

New related article, courtesy of @Bob Hawkes:

• What Is The Path For Most Domain Name Sales? 
Data and Insights

 

[Mister Funsky]

Or do they have to come up with the names on their own and type them in?

The answer is.....

TYPE IN