registrars Why do domainers use shitty registrars ?

[Kate]

Hello,

After so many years doing domaining and attending this forum I have noticed that domainers seem to be complacent and willing to use subpar registrars.

But domainers are supposed to know better. They are demanding customers with large portfolios and specific needs, so they should pay more attention than the average person.
Because things can go wrong sometimes.

Let's revisit History:

As early as in 2006 we told you that Registerfly was not a reliable registrar and was best avoided, because of their bugs, security holes, and deficient CP.
You didn't listen, Icann had to intervene and improvise a transfer process that didn't really exist at the time.

Back in 2008 we told you that Estdomains was an unsavory registrar associated with nefarious activity, and even run by a criminal.
You didn't listen, Icann had to step in again.
The funny thing, is that some people were so fond of that registrar that they even blamed Icann for initiating termination proceedings. Come on...

Then again, in 2018 we told you that Alpnames was not a good registrar and seems to exist only as an enabler of abuse and illegal activity.
You didn't listen, Icann had to intervene again (becoming routine), now pray for your domains if they are even worthy anything.

Told you so !

Then again, we have been telling you for a long time that Network Solutions is not good registrar. You know it.
OK, this one has been around forever and is unlikely to go down. But you know they are not trustworthy, and difficult to deal with. You want below-cost pricing but at some point those savings are gonna cost you. Time is money. Peace of mind is precious. Mental health is not an option.


Maybe you're thinking that in a worst-case scenario, Icann will intervene and organize a bulk transfer to another registrar.
But what if you have expiring domains that cannot be renewed in time ?
Or if whois data escrow is not reliable ?
Or something else does not go well ?

As a result of the bulk transfer your names may land at another difficult registrar, that you didn't choose.
Many problems could have been avoided if domain holders had paid attention to the early warning signs.

Bottom line:

• if you have valuable names renew them for a few years ahead and use a decent registrar
• do not assume that Icann or somebody will always save you, or act in time
• trust your instincts and move your domains if you see unseemly stuff
  
• if you sleep with dogs you'll catch fleas (quote is not mine)

 

[Jv1999]

Yeah. Stick with premium registrars like GoDaddy lol, then end up losing domains anyway like what happened to @stub

We transferred to alpnames, because instead of spending $8,300 for transfers, we spent only $5,000.

And it’s not like alp had bad rep when they did their promos.

I agree with Kate that for valuable domains and long-term holdings, we shouldn’t use bad registrars.

But I think you grossly underestimate $1 vs $8. With 100 dollaz, we can get 100 domains, while you got only 12... that’s a big deal. With 100, you can see what sails and what doesn’t. And ofc there’s the geo.

People saying they’d rather get $8 reggae and sail for x,xxx... if it were that easy, we would all be doing that instead of buying aftermarket.

The point is that you’d have to be beyond pro to routinely buy $8 .coms in bulk and still sail enough for x,xxx yearly to have a comfortable net profit. Because even pros like Imadoer and Federer use $1 deals for profit purposes.

 

[Furquan]

Can someone let me knew why most of the oldest names are with network solutions?

Alpanames, I can't tell anything about them as didn't have an account there. But whatever I have invested on Netsol promo I already got paid by 100 plus return.

Sure I will think twice to move my names from another register to Netsol but as far as $1 deal going on I will be there & will be registering the the name.

I am not going to see Netsol going to be shut even in another 20years.

 

[frank-germany]

Can someone let me knew why most of the oldest names are with network solutions?

what can you when there is only 1 registrar available?

 

[briguy]

NOT me, I only use The Premium registrar GoDaddy.

GoDaddy was my first and the one that I am most familiar using.

Another plus is majority of my sales have been through them or Sedo.

But currently because of the high (strong) currency of the US dollar, I have been moving my long term portfolio to a registrar that is more of my currency friendly. Saving 25% on each renewal was my deciding factor!

I still plan on using Godaddy/Sedo to sell cause of the traffic and more important (to me), getting paid in US currency.

 

[Furquan]

what can you when there is only 1 registrar available?

I will be registering names only there as I dont have options. But once there will be more Register I will transfer out my names.

But yet that oldest names still there & I am assuming it will be there always.

I just checked the Wiki about Netso, now i will register more names even transfer names if i get good transfer promo.

40 years old & still counting & people here advising it's not trust worthy?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Solutions

 

[Furquan]

For me Godaddy is pain in my....

It's asking me to pay Tax, Dynadot take my money but not register my name instead of returning the money to the source where is deducted they take your money as a hostage in your dynadot account.

 

[frank-germany]

I will be registering names only there as I dont have options. But once there will be more Register I will transfer out my names.

But yet that oldest names still there & I am assuming it will be there always.

I just checked the Wiki about Netso, now i will register more names even transfer names if i get good transfer promo.

40 years old & still counting & people here advising it's not trust worthy?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Solutions

you will have a hard time to find a worse registar
even godaddy is better

 

[Kate]

Heh, sorry for typo... That's a life changing $24,000, month in, month out, on each $1,000 investment...

Selling fifty or a hundred (5% - 10%) out of every thousand at, say, $300 a pop works, too.

Shi**y registrar, my ass! Profit to risk assessment, Kate!

Are you saying you made 24K using a subpar registrar ? I don't think this is what you mean

But I think you grossly underestimate $1 vs $8. With 100 dollaz, we can get 100 domains, while you got only 12... that’s a big deal. With 100, you can see what sails and what doesn’t. And ofc there’s the geo.

People saying they’d rather get $8 reggae and sail for x,xxx... if it were that easy, we would all be doing that instead of buying aftermarket.

If you think $8 is too much for a domain, maybe you have too many domains, or you are not selling enough. Even if you buy at $1, after a year you have to renew them or drop them. Indeed you could transfer them somewhere else but it takes time and time is valuable. And why buy domains if you don't think they are worth renewing ? Perhaps you should buy fewer but better domains so you won't have to ponder on the issue of renewal.

If the registrar does not make money, you are not a valuable customer and they have no incentive to treat you well. Of course it's their fault if they attract cheapskates with promos but it does not mean they are happy to retain your business. They want people who are too lazy to transfer out and willing to pay higher renewal fees. The others are not welcome.

When I am talking about shitty registrars it's not just the low-cost ones but also the overpriced ones that are nothing special and try to deny transfers out. Register.com for example.

 

[Domains - Wanted]

Can someone let me knew why most of the oldest names are with network solutions?

Once upon the time, back in the 20th century, there was one and only gTLD registrar: Network Sulutions. All .com, .net and .org names were registered with NetSol. This monopoly ended around 1999, with Register.com, Bulkregister, Tucows (OpenSRS) and a few others arriving on the scene as the new breed of ICANN accredited registrars. About a year later NetSol was bought out by Verisign and soon thereafter was merged with them. I remember that well, had to stop using our NetSol Gold Partner logo and switch to Verisign instead. Verisign won the jackpot and became the .com and .net registry and Network Solutions was reincarnated, that is separated from Verisign again, completely new logo and all...

 

[Jv1999]

Are you saying you made 24K using a subpar registrar ? I don't think this is what you mean


If you think $8 is too much for a domain, maybe you have too many domains, or you are not selling enough. Even if you buy at $1, after a year you have to renew them or drop them. Indeed you could transfer them somewhere else but it takes time and time is valuable. And why buy domains if you don't think they are worth renewing ? Perhaps you should buy fewer but better domains so you won't have to ponder on the issue of renewal.

If the registrar does not make money, you are not a valuable customer and they have no incentive to treat you well. Of course it's their fault if they attract cheapskates with promos but it does not mean they are happy to retain your business. They want people who are too lazy to transfer out and willing to pay higher renewal fees. The others are not welcome.

When I am talking about sh*tty registrars it's not just the low-cost ones but also the overpriced ones that are nothing special and try to deny transfers out. Register.com for example.

8 is too much!! C'mon lol. If i wanted a portfolio of 100 domains, that's 830 dollars to reggae! Then I might not even sail anything that year. Second year, id probably sail 1 or max 2, for maybe 1,200. That's less than 1k profit in 2 years lol.

Then the argument is to get a bigger portfolio, well then you're looking at costs of tens of thousands of dollars just to make 20k to 30k in 2 years haha.

I know hand reggae can sail for more. But we don't all randomly have a bank account with 6 figures sitting there to be blown away on $8 dollars.

 

[Jv1999]

Once upon the time, back in the 20th century, there was one and only gTLD registrar: Network Sulutions. All .com, .net and .org names were registered with NetSol. This monopoly ended around 1999, with Register.com, Bulkregister, Tucows (OpenSRS) and a few others arriving on the scene as the new breed of ICANN accredited registrars. About a year later NetSol was bought out by Verisign and soon thereafter was merged with them. I remember that well, had to stop using our NetSol Gold Partner logo and switch to Verisign instead. Verisign won the jackpot and became the .com and .net registry and Network Solutions was reincarnated, that is separated from Verisign again, completely new logo and all...

Wow, that means netsol still has a chance to be big again! If they only have been recently separated from VeriSign

 

[Domains - Wanted]

Are you saying you made 24K using a subpar registrar ? I don't think this is what you mean

Let me quote from my post, stressing a few important keywords you seem to have missed...

But here's the real kicker: what if, come their first year's end, you could make a measely $30 per month on, say, 800 out of every 1,000 of them? That's a life changing $24,000, month in, month out, on each $1,000 investment...

I'm working towards this scenario and expect to make that measely $30 each month, if not more, on each domain come end of this year. May not be 800 domains I mentioned in my example above, but having ran first limited tests recently, I'm pretty confident it will be in the hundreds.

I realize this sounds like many domainers' pipe dreams. Well, I've spent these past 2 years learning, researching and implementing the automation tools that put such pipe dreams within reach

 

[Domains - Wanted]

Wow, that means netsol still has a chance to be big again! If they only have been recently separated from VeriSign

Actually, NetSol's reincarnation took place a long time ago, in the early 2000's. They did come out shooting, though, with all their old customers' business intact. Hence so many old domains, like 1980's and 1990's old, are still registered with NetSol. Most of those old customers couldn't care less about NetSol's $35 renewal fees, assuming that they even realize there are other options, registrars out there.

 

[Furquan]

Actually, NetSol's reincarnation took place a long time ago, in the early 2000's. They did come out shooting, though, with all their old customers' business intact. Hence so many old domains, like 1980's and 1990's old, are still registered with NetSol. Most of those old customers couldn't care less about NetSol's $35 renewal fees, assuming that they even realize there are other options, registrars out there.

May be old customers think paying $35 per year is no risk compare to transferring out the domain to new register like Dynadot, Godaddy etc etc

 

[novasyd]

Short answer: Bcos we HATE monopoly and we LOVE 99cents promos

 

[Furquan]

Short answer: Bcos we HATE monopoly and we LOVE 99cents promos

We are not deep-pocketed millioner domainers, we are small domainer with a very low budget. So we always happy to make our $1 into $50 to $500 even sometimes we lose $100 on 100 domain in a year if it's not get sold but that's always impossible

 

[BrandableDomain]

Here is the reality of a Network Solutions Cyber Monday $1 “offer”.

Sure, you could register a domain for $1 under the “offer” - but if you wanted to transfer it out in the first year there is a ”$20 Service Fee”!

So now your domain has actually cost you $21!

DomainNameWire reported this horrible deal like this:

“But if you read the fine print sent in an email to customers today, you’ll find that this is a horrible deal.”

DNW then quotes from a Network Solutions email to customers:

“*$1 promotional pricing applies to the first year and is valid for 1 new purchase only. Domains transferred out prior to the first renewal will incur a $20 service fee per domain.”

Network Solutions has some sneaky fine print in its Cyber Monday special

Domain Name Wire, November 2017

https://domainnamewire.com/2017/11/27/network-solutions-sneaky-fine-print-cyber-monday-special/

If you want to read more about Network Solutions you can read the furious opinions of angry Network Solutions customers at ConsumerAffairs:

https://www.consumeraffairs.com/internet/network_solutions.htm

I remember feeling an awesome feeling of relief when I switched from SnapNames over to DropCatch and managed to get most of my names out of Network Solutions (after having to complain to ICANN).

 

[karmaco]

Most of us were smart enough to avoid the cyber day promo and continued to use the regular $1.00 up to 5 promo.

 

[Kate]

Here is the reality of a Network Solutions Cyber Monday $1 “offer”.

Sure, you could register a domain for $1 under the “offer” - but if you wanted to transfer it out in the first year there is a ”$20 Service Fee”!

Since you mention this, most people are probably unaware that some registrars charge you to transfer out and this is allowed under ICANN rules
https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/name-holder-faqs-2017-10-10-en
Would be good to compile a list of such registrars
Here is another one: https://www.namepros.com/threads/i-hate-vistaprint-asking-24-to-transfer-a-domain.985703/

 

[Asfas1000]

Just to answer to the original question..."Because a lot of so-so domains are worth renting for $1 / year , but not for $9 / year".

 

[golan]

Here is the reality of a Network Solutions Cyber Monday $1 “offer”.

Sure, you could register a domain for $1 under the “offer” - but if you wanted to transfer it out in the first year there is a ”$20 Service Fee”!

But we are mostly talking here about their "regular" (albeit obscure) promo which doesn't imply this transfer trap.

 

[Windoms]

Some register thousands of domains at $1.
Others register some at $8, with more precision.
2nd category I think you acquire more skills in the long run and have less headaches.
1$ domains you can always make it succeed but if it takes all your time and focus, forever.. not very good.
In my opinion.

 

[lock]

A lot of gtlds are not supported by all registras so it is the reason why i have some scattered domains. I do believe some registras hinder sales.

 

[alisajoycee]

It is all about for money that sit...

 

[Bob Hawkes]

I think that we need to realize that there are risks of various kinds in various domain service providers. Yes, in retrospect, easy to say we should see something. It is harder in the time. Alpnames were I think something like 9th place in the new extension space (maybe higher) so not small. Their user interface (I now see it was LogicBoxes) worked I would argue very well. They did not try to upsell, at least not unduly. They did not trick consumers into buying extra things they did not need. Their customer service was decent. They had been around for years. Their reviews were not terrible (kind of middling overall).

Even what seem the very biggest players are not without risk. At the peak of the tech 'bubble' Nortel was a huge company and a household word in Canada. I think something like 30% of the value of the entire stock market in Canada at one point was that company. They had existed since 1895 (a few renames over the years). They had a highly respected research arm. They were regarded a blue chip stock. Where is Nortel now? They filed for bankruptcy in 2009, not a decade after their peak.

It must be unimaginably stressful for those who operate as big players. The margins in registrars are smaller, much smaller than a decade ago (I learned at NamesCon).

True their pricing and bulk program meant that they were usually on the Bad Top 10 abuse registrar list (although so are some names that we use extensively among NP members). True their close association with former FFM was probably not good for either, and when that ended I agree problems on horizon perhaps should have been seen.

Just my look back at Alpnames, RIP.

Bob