registrars Why do domainers use shitty registrars ?

[Kate]

Hello,

After so many years doing domaining and attending this forum I have noticed that domainers seem to be complacent and willing to use subpar registrars.

But domainers are supposed to know better. They are demanding customers with large portfolios and specific needs, so they should pay more attention than the average person.
Because things can go wrong sometimes.

Let's revisit History:

As early as in 2006 we told you that Registerfly was not a reliable registrar and was best avoided, because of their bugs, security holes, and deficient CP.
You didn't listen, Icann had to intervene and improvise a transfer process that didn't really exist at the time.

Back in 2008 we told you that Estdomains was an unsavory registrar associated with nefarious activity, and even run by a criminal.
You didn't listen, Icann had to step in again.
The funny thing, is that some people were so fond of that registrar that they even blamed Icann for initiating termination proceedings. Come on...

Then again, in 2018 we told you that Alpnames was not a good registrar and seems to exist only as an enabler of abuse and illegal activity.
You didn't listen, Icann had to intervene again (becoming routine), now pray for your domains if they are even worthy anything.

Told you so !

Then again, we have been telling you for a long time that Network Solutions is not good registrar. You know it.
OK, this one has been around forever and is unlikely to go down. But you know they are not trustworthy, and difficult to deal with. You want below-cost pricing but at some point those savings are gonna cost you. Time is money. Peace of mind is precious. Mental health is not an option.


Maybe you're thinking that in a worst-case scenario, Icann will intervene and organize a bulk transfer to another registrar.
But what if you have expiring domains that cannot be renewed in time ?
Or if whois data escrow is not reliable ?
Or something else does not go well ?

As a result of the bulk transfer your names may land at another difficult registrar, that you didn't choose.
Many problems could have been avoided if domain holders had paid attention to the early warning signs.

Bottom line:

• if you have valuable names renew them for a few years ahead and use a decent registrar
• do not assume that Icann or somebody will always save you, or act in time
• trust your instincts and move your domains if you see unseemly stuff
  
• if you sleep with dogs you'll catch fleas (quote is not mine)

 

[Recons.Com]

Lots of sales posted on NP are $xxx bought at $1 from NetSol.

I guess it works fine for some, but I value my time and name choices to much to go around creating multiple accounts and risking dealing with an awful registrar that NS is.

I'd rather pay my $8.29 at GD and sell at $xxxx and not deal with dropping hundreds of names/picking 100s more etc.

I have built a portfolio of around 2800 quality names and will steadily increase its size without having to waste my time, while knowing that quite a few of those will sell on auto-pilot even when I am busy doing other business or being on vacation.

 

[Recons.Com]

Honestly, though, the NS $1 makes lots of sense for whoever starts with small capital. You can spend $500 on some geonames, brandables etc., get 500 names, sell 10 of those within 2-3 on aggressive outbound, earn $300x10=$3000, while having all listed on marketplaces. Within a year, 4-5 could sell to bring another $5000. So suddenly now you have $8000 to play with (this assumes that, while lacking money, you have plenty of time, $/hour expectation is not high, and you know how to choose names).

You can now weed out, based on info during the year, and drop most names, keeping around 100 and moving them to a better place. And also you can reinvest $5000 and buy 100 names at $50 average that you can sell at low-mid $xxxx at 1%-2% sell through annually and rinse and repeat.

But if this is your area of focus, regardless of your financial situation and you put zero value on your time, peace of mind etc., you will never really succeed.

 

[Domains - Wanted]

...But domainers are supposed to know better. They are demanding customers with large portfolios and specific needs, so they should pay more attention than the average person.
Because things can go wrong sometimes...

It's called risk assessment, Kate. There are those of us who know full well better and still use subpar registrars. On occasion. When the risk is warranted.

Take NetSol for example, which is by far the most controversial. For those with a coherent strategy, who decided to take advantage of NetSol's $1 promo, this may turn out to be a life changing gamble. Yes, gamble, as with any one domain handreg or acquisition. Except this gamble has a much better profit to risk ratio!

Never mind savings to the tune of $6,000 per each 1,000 domains registered. Never mind selling 10 of them for $x,xxx or 100 at $xxx each, not a bad strategy at all, if you can make it work. But here's the real kicker: what if, come their first year's end, you could make a measely $30 per month on, say, 800 out of every 1,000 of them? That's a life changing $2,400, month in, month out, on each $1,000 investment.

Now, my confidence is high. I have the tools for the job down pat, testing them as we speak. However, working on this project nearly full time, comes at a cost, severly limiting my earning capabilities. Hence investing $7,000 per every 1,000 domains would be a bit of a strech. Read: my wife would probably have me sedated and hauled off to a mental institution before I registered 500 domains! At $1 a pop, it's a non brainer

I was fully aware of the risks involved. I stand by my decision, even thought NetSol has locked my account and is giving me the run around like... any registrar who'd screwed up and is trying to fix their mistake using any means at their disposal. Seems they plan to wait it out and attempt to auto-renew my 1000+ domains at $35 a pop... well, all's fair in love and war. As I suspect is the case with many others here at NP, I went in with my eyes wide open. The game is on and it was, and still is, a heck of a great gamble to use this subpar registrar!

Disclaimer: I used to be the original NetSol's Gold Partner, so my attitude towards them, even after their reincarnation, is a bit more, well, complicated than most... sort of love-hate relationship

 

[Jv1999]

Yeah. Stick with premium registrars like GoDaddy lol, then end up losing domains anyway like what happened to @stub

We transferred to alpnames, because instead of spending $8,300 for transfers, we spent only $5,000.

And it’s not like alp had bad rep when they did their promos.

I agree with Kate that for valuable domains and long-term holdings, we shouldn’t use bad registrars.

But I think you grossly underestimate $1 vs $8. With 100 dollaz, we can get 100 domains, while you got only 12... that’s a big deal. With 100, you can see what sails and what doesn’t. And ofc there’s the geo.

People saying they’d rather get $8 reggae and sail for x,xxx... if it were that easy, we would all be doing that instead of buying aftermarket.

The point is that you’d have to be beyond pro to routinely buy $8 .coms in bulk and still sail enough for x,xxx yearly to have a comfortable net profit. Because even pros like Imadoer and Federer use $1 deals for profit purposes.

 

[Axc]

Promos.Although i will admit its not worth it.Couple of examples.Exabytes-will try and bill you for renewal even if autorenew is off.tut tut.
Nomanalia €2 to reg €35 to push.lol

 

[carob]

Because things can go wrong sometimes.

And things can change.

At one time Moniker was popular and respected amongst domainers, and comparisons of ToS made them look more secure than others, and their boss was responsive.

But they were full of bugs and had no interest in fixing them - big warning sign. Then they began getting hacked and domainers fled.

It is important to listen, and watch the warning signs too to see what may be coming.

 

[HotKey]

Well it's amazing what we'll do to save a buck.

What we might sacrifice, in the end, to do so, is simply not worth it.

 

[Kate]

Heh, sorry for typo... That's a life changing $24,000, month in, month out, on each $1,000 investment...

Selling fifty or a hundred (5% - 10%) out of every thousand at, say, $300 a pop works, too.

Shi**y registrar, my ass! Profit to risk assessment, Kate!

Are you saying you made 24K using a subpar registrar ? I don't think this is what you mean

But I think you grossly underestimate $1 vs $8. With 100 dollaz, we can get 100 domains, while you got only 12... that’s a big deal. With 100, you can see what sails and what doesn’t. And ofc there’s the geo.

People saying they’d rather get $8 reggae and sail for x,xxx... if it were that easy, we would all be doing that instead of buying aftermarket.

If you think $8 is too much for a domain, maybe you have too many domains, or you are not selling enough. Even if you buy at $1, after a year you have to renew them or drop them. Indeed you could transfer them somewhere else but it takes time and time is valuable. And why buy domains if you don't think they are worth renewing ? Perhaps you should buy fewer but better domains so you won't have to ponder on the issue of renewal.

If the registrar does not make money, you are not a valuable customer and they have no incentive to treat you well. Of course it's their fault if they attract cheapskates with promos but it does not mean they are happy to retain your business. They want people who are too lazy to transfer out and willing to pay higher renewal fees. The others are not welcome.

When I am talking about shitty registrars it's not just the low-cost ones but also the overpriced ones that are nothing special and try to deny transfers out. Register.com for example.

 

[BrandableDomain]

Here is the reality of a Network Solutions Cyber Monday $1 “offer”.

Sure, you could register a domain for $1 under the “offer” - but if you wanted to transfer it out in the first year there is a ”$20 Service Fee”!

So now your domain has actually cost you $21!

DomainNameWire reported this horrible deal like this:

“But if you read the fine print sent in an email to customers today, you’ll find that this is a horrible deal.”

DNW then quotes from a Network Solutions email to customers:

“*$1 promotional pricing applies to the first year and is valid for 1 new purchase only. Domains transferred out prior to the first renewal will incur a $20 service fee per domain.”

Network Solutions has some sneaky fine print in its Cyber Monday special

Domain Name Wire, November 2017

https://domainnamewire.com/2017/11/27/network-solutions-sneaky-fine-print-cyber-monday-special/

If you want to read more about Network Solutions you can read the furious opinions of angry Network Solutions customers at ConsumerAffairs:

https://www.consumeraffairs.com/internet/network_solutions.htm

I remember feeling an awesome feeling of relief when I switched from SnapNames over to DropCatch and managed to get most of my names out of Network Solutions (after having to complain to ICANN).

 

[Kate]

Here is the reality of a Network Solutions Cyber Monday $1 “offer”.

Sure, you could register a domain for $1 under the “offer” - but if you wanted to transfer it out in the first year there is a ”$20 Service Fee”!

Since you mention this, most people are probably unaware that some registrars charge you to transfer out and this is allowed under ICANN rules
https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/name-holder-faqs-2017-10-10-en
Would be good to compile a list of such registrars
Here is another one: https://www.namepros.com/threads/i-hate-vistaprint-asking-24-to-transfer-a-domain.985703/

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Thanks for the sound advice @Kate. You raise numerous good points (although I would argue that saying "seems to exist only as an enabler of abuse and illegal activity" is going too far! jmho).

I agree entirely that peace of mind and time are both to be valued, more than a few cents in savings.

I hope that your thread will lead to a discussion of where is the most trusted registrar. If you have some really high value domain names, where is the safest places to register them? I think one needs to consider all of financial stability of the registrar, their security measures, the quality of the people there and their concern for protecting digital assets, and how steadfast they would be in defending your rights and standing by you.

We all know the famous cases of accidentally un-renewed names. I agree entirely that valuable assets should be renewed years in advance.

I also wonder what people think of using multiple registrars. I know it is awkward, and I do it partly to learn about them for writing, but I sort of like that my domains are spread across 10 domain names, so even if there is a difficulty with one, most of mine are somewhere else.

Thanks again for posting on an important topic, and offering your long term view.

Bob

 

[HotKey]

I also wonder what people think of using multiple registrars. I know it is awkward, and I do it partly to learn about them for writing, but I sort of like that my domains are spread across 10 domain names, so even if there is a difficulty with one, most of mine are somewhere else.

I used to, but much like trimming your domain portfolio, I've trimmed my registrars down to less than a handful which I'm sticking to. Alp was the last of the rogue.
Trust, connection with customer/communication, usability and speed remain top importance for me, pricing is the icing.

 

[HotKey]

Other reasons one may be stuck with a pooper of a registrar, buying a domain from someone. There are times I would rather create an account at the offending site, receiving the push, and then handle the arduous task of transferring out the domain name myself.

 

[frank-germany]

I will be registering names only there as I dont have options. But once there will be more Register I will transfer out my names.

But yet that oldest names still there & I am assuming it will be there always.

I just checked the Wiki about Netso, now i will register more names even transfer names if i get good transfer promo.

40 years old & still counting & people here advising it's not trust worthy?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Solutions

you will have a hard time to find a worse registar
even godaddy is better

 

[Bob Hawkes]

I think that we need to realize that there are risks of various kinds in various domain service providers. Yes, in retrospect, easy to say we should see something. It is harder in the time. Alpnames were I think something like 9th place in the new extension space (maybe higher) so not small. Their user interface (I now see it was LogicBoxes) worked I would argue very well. They did not try to upsell, at least not unduly. They did not trick consumers into buying extra things they did not need. Their customer service was decent. They had been around for years. Their reviews were not terrible (kind of middling overall).

Even what seem the very biggest players are not without risk. At the peak of the tech 'bubble' Nortel was a huge company and a household word in Canada. I think something like 30% of the value of the entire stock market in Canada at one point was that company. They had existed since 1895 (a few renames over the years). They had a highly respected research arm. They were regarded a blue chip stock. Where is Nortel now? They filed for bankruptcy in 2009, not a decade after their peak.

It must be unimaginably stressful for those who operate as big players. The margins in registrars are smaller, much smaller than a decade ago (I learned at NamesCon).

True their pricing and bulk program meant that they were usually on the Bad Top 10 abuse registrar list (although so are some names that we use extensively among NP members). True their close association with former FFM was probably not good for either, and when that ended I agree problems on horizon perhaps should have been seen.

Just my look back at Alpnames, RIP.

Bob

 

[EbookLover]

I'm probably too conservative and risk-averse in my own dealings. I recall the Registerfly fiasco. Fortunately, I did not have domains there but man, that was a mess!

Namepros saved me from Registerfly. I had all my domains with registerfly and then I found Namepros. Read threads about them and got scared and transferred out to Godaddy (not many other options I knew of or felt comfortable with at the time). Transfers took a while as it was a painful process. But I got all my domains out before the SHTF. Wheeew! Thanks NP!

 

[Kate]

Thanks for the sound advice @Kate. You raise numerous good points (although I would argue that saying "seems to exist only as an enabler of abuse and illegal activity" is going too far! jmho).

Mainly seems to be more appropriate then
Note that my strongly-worded post is not an isolated opinion: http://domainincite.com/22659-tech-giants-gunning-for-alpnames-over-new-gtld-abuse

I hope that your thread will lead to a discussion of where is the most trusted registrar.

I would say: your own if you can. I've already set up registrar credentials for some ccTLDs.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

In fairness there used to be some good people associated with Alpnames and all of my personal interactions with them were fine. They did not false bill, trick you into buying things, etc and responded to queries. This shut down or whatever sure has suffered from lack of clarity though.
Bob

 

[karmaco]

Have I used the $1 promo? Sure but not in the crazy high quantity that some people do. The trick IMO is move on Day 61 the names that you intend to keep. Only buy what you have the funds to move out. Quickly.

I often ask myself why people register names they do not intend to keep if unsold in a year’s time. It’s a strategy sure- but it’s not my strategy. I try not to waste even a dollar on bad or experimental names. I tried that strategy the first 6 months (throw anything at the wall and hope it sticks) and I don’t find it to be a good one. You have to be very selective.

Another reason to move them is people are less likely to buy your names if you are at a questionable registrar.

As far as the overarching question of reliable registrars, even the ones at the supposed top of the chain aren’t as reliable as people like to think. You won’t really know how trustworthy or in your corner they are (or are not) until something goes wrong or a problem arises.

So no, I see nothing wrong with using subpar registrars for a deal if you move the names out well before a year has passed.

 

[lock]

A lot of gtlds are not supported by all registras so it is the reason why i have some scattered domains. I do believe some registras hinder sales.

 

[OmarVG]

NOT me, I only use The Premium registrar GoDaddy.

Somebody try to convince me of using a crappy registrar but I refuse to his offer, I ignore all the banner ads of this registrar in this fórum, it seems he is Desperate to get more clients, his registrar is dying slowly LOL :D

 

[Domains - Wanted]

...But here's the real kicker: what if, come their first year's end, you could make a measely $30 per month on, say, 800 out of every 1,000 of them? That's a life changing $2,400, month in, month out, on each $1,000 investment...

Heh, sorry for typo... That's a life changing $24,000, month in, month out, on each $1,000 investment...

Selling fifty or a hundred (5% - 10%) out of every thousand at, say, $300 a pop works, too.

Shi**y registrar, my ass! Profit to risk assessment, Kate!

 

[frank-germany]

In fairness there used to be some good people associated with Alpnames and all of my personal interactions with them were fine. They did not false bill, trick you into buying things, etc and responded to queries. This shut down or whatever sure has suffered from lack of clarity though.
Bob

I had no problems with Alpnames

I liked their interface
and transfers out where hasslefree
as well as any other task

I do still do have

bustier /./top
vneck /.t/op
cash/ ./surf

with them


@Rob Monster

what is going to happen with these names?

 

[frank-germany]

Can someone let me knew why most of the oldest names are with network solutions?

what can you when there is only 1 registrar available?