The USA Political Thread

[lennco]

Here you can spout your USA political views.

Rules:
1. Keep it clean
2. No fighting
3. Respect the views of others.
4. US Political views, No Religious views
5. Have fun

:wave:

 

[DU]

The cubbyhole must be a euphemism for a category "dumber than dirt"

 

[verbster]

I see GM is getting a $35 million fine for their "business decision" to go with the faulty ignition switch in 2001. I sure hope that money goes to the families of the 13 who died and others who were injured.

Besides the small fine, I guess the DOJ is investigating. As it seems many employees, including the CEO, at GM knew the ignition switch was faulty years ago ( it sometimes shut the engine down or didn't allow the airbag to deploy among other things), I'm wondering if that's some sort of negligent homicide to not say or do anything after people started dying because of the faulty part.

 

[johname]

Clay Aiken: Politics is tougher than ‘Idol’

LOL I hope so

 

[RogueWriter]

The cubbyhole must be a euphemism for a category "dumber than dirt"

If by dumber than dirt you mean single handedly building yourself into a multimillion dollar a year worldwide brand that can influence political parties with a simple nod of approval or disapproval, if by dumber than dirt you mean building up a support base that will turn every book you write into an immediate bestseller, if by dumber than dirt you mean that you are knowledgable enough on topics of interest that cable channels fawn over the rights to publish your reality shows and specials, if by dumber than dirt you mean that your opponents don't know whether to spend money tearing you down or not because they don't want to waste money on someone who may or may not run for office, then yeah, sign me up for some of that.

 

[RogueWriter]

I see GM is getting a $35 million fine for their "business decision" to go with the faulty ignition switch in 2001. I sure hope that money goes to the families of the 13 who died and others who were injured.

Besides the small fine, I guess the DOJ is investigating. As it seems many employees, including the CEO, at GM knew the ignition switch was faulty years ago ( it sometimes shut the engine down or didn't allow the airbag to deploy among other things), I'm wondering if that's some sort of negligent homicide to not say or do anything after people started dying because of the faulty part.

Somehow, 35 mil doesn't seem like enough, if they knowingly made a decision that was going to get people killed. I hope the doj goes after them. I wonder, and this is probably where I lose a couple of you, if the government should get some of the blame for forcing the previous leadership out and installing their own in GM, or whether the issue predates their GM coup.

 

[DU]

If by dumber than dirt you mean single handedly building yourself into a multimillion dollar a year worldwide brand that can influence political parties with a simple nod of approval or disapproval, if by dumber than dirt you mean building up a support base that will turn every book you write into an immediate bestseller, if by dumber than dirt you mean that you are knowledgable enough on topics of interest that cable channels fawn over the rights to publish your reality shows and specials, if by dumber than dirt you mean that your opponents don't know whether to spend money tearing you down or not because they don't want to waste money on someone who may or may not run for office, then yeah, sign me up for some of that.

Single-handedly in the same way that Honey Boo Boo or Justin Bieber did the same, I guess.

I don't equate mass appeal and wealth with intelligence.

 

[DU]

I see GM is getting a $35 million fine for their "business decision" to go with the faulty ignition switch in 2001. I sure hope that money goes to the families of the 13 who died and others who were injured.

Besides the small fine, I guess the DOJ is investigating. As it seems many employees, including the CEO, at GM knew the ignition switch was faulty years ago ( it sometimes shut the engine down or didn't allow the airbag to deploy among other things), I'm wondering if that's some sort of negligent homicide to not say or do anything after people started dying because of the faulty part.

Texting while driving kills 6,000 people a year.
Watch/Read fight club if you want to know how commerce works.

If people actually gave a damn about people they wouldn't buy clothes from India, they wouldn't buy phones from China. How many victims do you think there are in order for you to get $5 t-shirts shipped to your door?

This fake righteousness is total crap - where's your own personal responsibility in the modern economy?

Everyone who works for a corporation works for someone who does something that fucks over someone. They pay your mortgage, they pay for your stuff, and that makes it ok.

 

[verbster]

Texting while driving kills 6,000 people a year.
Watch/Read fight club if you want to know how commerce works.

If people actually gave a damn about people they wouldn't buy clothes from India, they wouldn't buy phones from China. How many victims do you think there are in order for you to get $5 t-shirts shipped to your door?

This fake righteousness is total crap - where's your own personal responsibility in the modern economy?

Everyone who works for a corporation works for someone who does something that fucks over someone. They pay your mortgage, they pay for your stuff, and that makes it ok.

I'm guessing either a loose dog woke you up too early, or you didn't have enough milk for Cheerios? I can see how you got on the commerce pulpit, but that really wasn't my point. Of course, not having the amazing mental acuity of a true brainiac like Ms Palin, I probably don't know what my point was.

"Fake righteousness"? I've heard that's contagious.

I wish I knew where my own personal responsibility in the modern economy was . . . but I'd rather wonder about my personal responsibility to something higher on the shelf.

Golly, remember, corporations are people, too . . . so say the folks in the black robes.

 

[DU]

"Fake righteousness"? I've heard that's contagious.

That's exactly my point. The fake righteousness I spoke of was not yours.

 

[verbster]

If by dumber than dirt you mean single handedly building yourself into a multimillion dollar a year worldwide brand that can influence political parties with a simple nod of approval or disapproval, if by dumber than dirt you mean building up a support base that will turn every book you write into an immediate bestseller, if by dumber than dirt you mean that you are knowledgable enough on topics of interest that cable channels fawn over the rights to publish your reality shows and specials, if by dumber than dirt you mean that your opponents don't know whether to spend money tearing you down or not because they don't want to waste money on someone who may or may not run for office, then yeah, sign me up for some of that.

Sarah loves any description of her that includes "single handedly". She's a small town person with a small town education and an overwhelming need to be recognized exactly as you've done. There are many success stories like hers, but she is an example of the perfect storm. Her popularity or infamy, depending on who you ask, was created by the unknown McCain staff person who somehow convinced McCain to select her as a running mate with without even meeting her or performing due diligence. Without that opening (which she believes to be her personal divine plan), Palin wouldn't be the sideshow that she is. You don't believe she writes her own books, do you? And my favorite "knowledgable enough on topics of interest that cable channels fawn over the rights to publish your reality shows and specials"; you mean like how Mama Grizzly was supposed to be a hunter and know how to handle firearms, but couldn't hit the broad side of a ban on her caribou hunt, didn't have her own rifle and asked stuff like, "Will it kick?" before missing five shots in a row.

 

[GILSAN]

Sarah loves any description of her that includes "single handedly". She's a small town person with a small town education and an overwhelming need to be recognized exactly as you've done. There are many success stories like hers, but she is an example of the perfect storm. Her popularity or infamy, depending on who you ask, was created by the unknown McCain staff person who somehow convinced McCain to select her as a running mate with without even meeting her or performing due diligence. Without that opening (which she believes to be her personal divine plan), Palin wouldn't be the sideshow that she is. You don't believe she writes her own books, do you? And my favorite "knowledgable enough on topics of interest that cable channels fawn over the rights to publish your reality shows and specials"; you mean like how Mama Grizzly was supposed to be a hunter and know how to handle firearms, but couldn't hit the broad side of a ban on her caribou hunt, didn't have her own rifle and asked stuff like, "Will it kick?" before missing five shots in a row.

Wow.... what an obsession you have about Sarah Palin. For someone you despise so much, you seem to know a lot more about her than 99.99% of the journalists out there. Why don't you pick on someone else for a change? Do you ever dream of one day dropping her off in the middle of bear country during their mating season, without a gun to defend herself?

Don't be so bloody biased... pick on a dumb Democrat for a change; there are tons of them out there. You could start with the one who believes there are 57 States in the US and doesn't know how to talk without a teleprompter... even when speaking at an elementary school to a bunch of 6th grade kids

What say yee to this?

 

[verbster]

. . . doesn't know how to talk without a teleprompter... even when speaking at an elementary school to a bunch of 6th grade kids

What say yee to this?

I'd say once again you got caught trying to spread a lie. Once again you chose to believe something bad about Obama just because you don't like him, not because what you claim is true, which is the ultimate bias and exactly what I'm trying to expose about Palin. She's perky and people believe what she says, most of which is not true, just like your post. http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/photos/6thgrade.asp

Wow.... what an obsession you have about Sarah Palin. For someone you despise so much, you seem to know a lot more about her than 99.99% of the journalists out there. Why don't you pick on someone else for a change? Do you ever dream of one day dropping her off in the middle of bear country during their mating season, without a gun to defend herself?

I'm not obsessed with Palin, I'm disgusted by what people think she is and what little she knows. What makes you think I don't know a lot about her? Alaska is a big place but with a very small population. You'd be surprised who attends the same workout classes and who knows what.

Don't be so bloody biased... pick on a dumb Democrat for a change; there are tons of them out there. You could start with the one who believes there are 57 States in the US and doesn't know how to talk without a teleprompter...

Telling me not to be so biased, followed by "pick on a dumb Democrat . . ." is almost funny.

 

[verbster]

Came across this today: When Bush took office 1/20/2001, the stock market (Dow Jones) was 10, 587. Four years later, when re-elected it was at 10, 471. And when he left office it was 7949, over a 20% drop in eight years.

After four years of Obama, it was 12, 720 (up 60%). And today it's around 16, 500 (up over 100% in six years)

 

[JB Lions]

Came across this today: When Bush took office 1/20/2001, the stock market (Dow Jones) was 10, 587. Four years later, when re-elected it was at 10, 471. And when he left office it was 7949, over a 20% drop in eight years.

After four years of Obama, it was 12, 720 (up 60%). And today it's around 16, 500 (up over 100% in six years)

Haven't checked the Unemployment rate in awhile

When Obama first took office - 7.8%, went all the way up to 10%.

Now 6.3%. Full point and a half lower than what Bush handed off.

 

[Theo Goodman]

looks like a "recovery"

 

[JB Lions]

haha, I knew when I posted that, Theo would come and try to find some Unofficial numbers from some Conservative group. Haven't failed to disappoint me yet.

Unemployment is still at 6.3% tho.

 

[Theo Goodman]

real income still down tho
social benefits as % of disposable income still ATH tho
that is only one unemployment indicator that is at 6.3% tho
that indicator does not truly show the full picture tho
the recovery is largely satistical tho
dow at such levels does not reflect economic reality due to low intrest rates an practialy free money for banks that in turn pump it into the stock market as opposed to the real economy, at nearly no risk who wouldnt do that?
Here is some more conservative media (since allegedly that is what I look for even though I have posted articles from wsj, bloomberg etal) that also begs the question , does the "offical" unemployment rate paint the whole picture? http://www.cnbc.com/id/101636683http://www.cnbc.com/id/101636683

amd guess what, at the ultra conservative conspiracy theory news source CNBC they conducted a poll, "
Which measure do you think reflects the unemployment situation best?"
4% agree with JB that the "offical" rate reflects the unemployment situhation best
81% say that the U-6 rate best describes the unemployment situation
and
12% A different rate altogether
Total Votes: 19272

So not only are so called "conservatives" or "obama haters" quick to question the unemployment numbers dished out by the goverment but the liberal CNBC is as well. This has nothing to do with convervative vs. liberal / obama vs. bushes

BTW your favorite shadowstats that uses the old method: 23%

 

[verbster]

It took a while to get to one measurement everyone could use as a simple standard, and here you go confusing us again with all those pretty graphs, quotes and such.

 

[Theo Goodman]

What part are you confused about?
&
Who exactly decided what is the so called "standard?

 

[RogueWriter]

Single-handedly in the same way that Honey Boo Boo or Justin Bieber did the same, I guess.

I don't equate mass appeal and wealth with intelligence.

I think you meant to say "Single-handedly in the same way that Honey Boo Boo, Barack Obama or Justin Bieber did the same..."

I mean, a guy with slightly more experience than a postage stamp being elected into the most powerful position in the most powerful nation in the history of the world, must have enjoyed mass appeal and wealth, for he certainly had no opportunity to demonstrate intelligence or experience. And frankly, if we are going to elect postage stamps into the Presidency, I think we should vote for one that wants to use smaller numbers on the checks.

Personally, I could use a little mass appeal and wealth in my life right now; I have needs.

 

[RogueWriter]

What part are you confused about?
&
Who exactly decided what is the so called "standard?

Any actual fact appears to confound liberals.

 

[JB Lions]

Who exactly decided what is the so called "standard?

Society? Republicans and Democrats? People? News Outlets? It's always been the number used, we've gone over this many times. I pointed out to you it was the number Romney used to go after Obama, with it being over 8%. Of course that backfired when it went under 8%.

It goes like this. The economy was very bad, that started to go downhill under Bush. So this was used against Obama. Economy this, economy that. It used to be the #1 topic they used to go after him. But then the numbers started to change and if they used the numbers that have always been used, it would have shown that. It's about the time they stopped talking about the economy and started talking about all this other stuff.

6.3%, the number both Republicans and Democrats have always used, from a high of 10%. If Romney was in the White House or some other Republican, you would be hearing about it all day long on Fox and Republican sites. You disagree with that?

So in the end, it's a good thing the economy is getting better. I would be happy with that regardless of who was in the White House.

 

[Theo Goodman]

No, it is not the number that has - always- been used. We have been over this. The way that it was calculated was changed, it was not always like this. The goverment decides what is the "offical" rate, not the news outlets or people.

Yes you pointed out the Romney thing, and I also responded many times that I dont care, and that it is not what I am talking about , at all.
Sure maybe FOX et all would be ranting about "low" unemployment if they (REPs) were in office, however they would still be painting a very incompleate picture of unemployment. This is what I mean when I say that this is not about Rep vs. Dem / "Conservitive" vs. "Liberal".

Ironicly as posted above not only am I the only one that thinks that the "offical" number does not reflect reality but also the non conservitive network CNBC even asks that question, and when conducting a poll about it a very large majorty of the vistors agreed with me.

So in the end I disagree that the economy is getting better. I would say that regardless of who was in the White House.
I am wondering how long the DOW bubble can continue before it pops, I guess as long as he interest rates are low it should be fine.

 

[GILSAN]

Ironicly as posted above not only am I the only one that thinks that the "offical" number does not reflect reality but also the non conservitive network CNBC even asks that question, and when conducting a poll about it a very large majorty of the vistors agreed with me.

So in the end I disagree that the economy is getting better. I would say that regardless of who was in the White House.
I am wondering how long the DOW bubble can continue before it pops, I guess as long as he interest rates are low it should be fine.

And Ironically, I agree with you in this matter. In fact I talked about this a long time ago, if not in this thread then in another. Politicians (the vast majority of them) love to manipulate numbers in their favor. Here in Portugal most of our BS, good for nothing, worthless and corrupt Politicians also love to lie and manipulate numbers, including the true unemployment numbers

The gap between rich and poor has widened. Wages of the average American worker have stagnated or gone down in the past 20-30 years. The richest 1% of the population take home 13% of the total wages.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/13/s...ductivity-climbs-but-wages-stagnate.html?_r=0

I have no problem in the rich getting richer, but NOT at the expense of everyone else, unfortunately since the Politicians are there to protect the very rich as one of their main priorities, it's up to the people to kick them out, come election time.

But then comes election time and the people get manipulated once again by the MSM and politicians to vote on A or B. Only 2 choices... how frustrating... a country with such a diverse variety of people from all over the world, so many different opinions and only 2 parties to choose from.

What amazes me most is that there are people that firmly believe and swear till they are blue in their faces that the unemployment numbers that the governments give us are true and are not lies or manipulated.

Yea right.... and I'm the one who needs help... at least according to a few distinguished and enlightened members of Namepros. But I'm with that

 

[verbster]

Any actual fact appears to confound liberals.

Naw, just the junk that some conservatives claim are "obvious truths and facts" but are almost always just opinions, speculation, outright lies, conspiracy theories, stereotyping, name calling and my favorite, what ifs. All a person has to do is read this thread to discover the faulty logic used to masquerade as facts.

As far as the economy is going, look how hard Theo had to work to try and prove (for some reason) that things weren't better now than 6-8 years ago. If anyone thinks things are as bad now as they were 6-8 years ago, far be it for me to waste time convincing them that if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, eats like a duck and shits like a duck, it's probably a duck, not a fox dressed up like a duck. But sometimes certain people want the duck to be a fox that they'll say it is, and other people who want something to bitch about will accept the lie about the duck being a fox and spread their own lies without ever bothering to check for the truth.

I would enjoy reading any facts you think would confound liberals. It's a fact that the Dow Jones has doubled in the last six years. It's also a fact that the national debt is the highest it's ever been. Maybe Theo can explain why that is. Nothing like a nice graph.