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Who is to Blame for the Troubled US Economy?

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  • Both Parties

    270 
    votes
    44.9%
  • Neither Party

    57 
    votes
    9.5%
  • Democrats

    134 
    votes
    22.3%
  • Republicans

    141 
    votes
    23.4%
  • This poll is still running and the standings may change.

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Here you can spout your USA political views.

Rules:
1. Keep it clean
2. No fighting
3. Respect the views of others.
4. US Political views, No Religious views
5. Have fun :)

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The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
Debating with a liberal is like a dog chasing his tail. I'm done. Happy 4th.

The administration did state they broke the law and bypassed Congress to get the traitor back. If it had gone through Congress, NOPE. The left saw a way to 'seize the opportunity to get one of our own back' and traded 5 horrific terrorists for 1 person who got how many Soldiers killed looking for him? And what's that Soldiers' sentence going to be? Five years in captivity is enough. Let's award him the PoW medal, with that since he was 'hurt in captivity', let's give him a Purple Heart (no evidence, but have to be awarded anyway by law). Then, let him get 100% disability from the VA (~$3000/mo), make his father a caretaker (~$1500/mo) and full retirement benefits from the ARMY as well as keep his 300k in retroactive back pay. A solid $6000/mo in retirement benefits coming his way because he wanted to hang out with the jihad instead of doing his [...] job over there. Bravo Obama, way to keep troops in line.

NF.jpg

FOR:
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God bless those that did live the Rambo fantasy and made it through, KIA/MIA/POW. People are trained to not be as weak as you think and to give their lives in order to save others (check out SERE training BTW).
 
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I would like to hear from those that picked Dwight Eisenhower as the worst president. Sixty year grudge for the highway program.
 
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If you are flying into the US from Europe and the Middle East and you notice in the coming days that your flying experience will become increasingly inconvenient, stressful, and even more time-consuming than ever before, then don't forget to thank a follower of the Religion of Peace for it. :(

 
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Debating with a liberal is like a dog chasing his tail. I'm done. Happy 4th.)

You're doing a little bow-wowing of your own. You complained that I didn't reply to your post, and when I did, you complained about that. I'm starting to notice a pattern.

The administration did state they broke the law and bypassed Congress to get the traitor back. If it had gone through Congress, NOPE. The left saw a way to 'seize the opportunity to get one of our own back' and traded 5 horrific terrorists for 1 person who got how many Soldiers killed looking for him? And what's that Soldiers' sentence going to be? Five years in captivity is enough. Let's award him the PoW medal, with that since he was 'hurt in captivity', let's give him a Purple Heart (no evidence, but have to be awarded anyway by law). Then, let him get 100% disability from the VA (~$3000/mo), make his father a caretaker (~$1500/mo) and full retirement benefits from the ARMY as well as keep his 300k in retroactive back pay. A solid $6000/mo in retirement benefits coming his way because he wanted to hang out with the jihad instead of doing his [...] job over there. Bravo Obama, way to keep troops in line..)
Think positive! If Berdahl is as bad as you think, maybe he will be court martialed and put in the slammer where other inmates will practice their own type of advanced penetration techniques on him.

God bless those that did live the Rambo fantasy and made it through, KIA/MIA/POW. People are trained to not be as weak as you think and to give their lives in order to save others (check out SERE training BTW).

What makes you think I don't already know about SERE training or the terrible price that war demands of soldiers?
 
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There is no 'thinking positive' in this case. If you know the UCMJ and the Manual for Courts-Martial, they will never get to a general courts-martial sentencing him to death because Rule 909 after an Article 32.

Do you know anything about military justice or is this just coming out of thin air like every other liberal talk?
 
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There is no 'thinking positive' in this case. If you know the UCMJ and the Manual for Courts-Martial, they will never get to a general courts-martial sentencing him to death because Rule 909 after an Article 32.

Do you know anything about military justice or is this just coming out of thin air like every other liberal talk?

It's amazing how you can accuse others for the crap you do. I said absolutely nothing about the death penalty. In fact I was absolutely clear about the "slammer." Despite that, you pull the death penalty out of your butt, and accuse me of not knowing about it as though I brought it up in the first place. It's delusional. Besides, there hasn't been a military execution carried out in the US in over 50 years, and it's not going to happen now, so why even bring it up?
 
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Once the US pulls out of Afghanistan there is no legal remedy that would allow them to keep those guys as prisoners of war in no-mans-land anyway... not that there is much "legal" about the situation for the current detainees.
 
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It's amazing how you can accuse others for the crap you do. I said absolutely nothing about the death penalty. In fact I was absolutely clear about the "slammer." Despite that, you pull the death penalty out of your butt, and accuse me of not knowing about it as though I brought it up in the first place. It's delusional. Besides, there hasn't been a military execution carried out in the US in over 50 years, and it's not going to happen now, so why even bring it up?
Even if they don't go for the death penalty on countless Articles of the UCMJ broken which deem the death penalty important in this case (not saying put to death, rather death row) it will never see the light of day in any courts-martial proceedings due to Rule 909.

Why would it happen now? I've skimmed over countless Articles that impose the death penalty in which he broke. Over 10, not counting general Articles they can stick on him. However, they can't after a pre-trial investigation of the Article 32 which will send it up the chain, just to be knocked down by Rule 909.

Not only that, but he has the blood of 6 Soldiers on his hands and the American tax payers paid $3,000,000 in life insurance coverage for these men, while this guy gets to walk away scot free with money in the bank, promotions, medals and retirement.
 
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avid Walker said:
No, I'm hoping it fails miserably so that economics is made a general education requirement in high schools after we feel the final effects.
I'm sure your "hometown" values your hopes that they fail miserably so they have a reason to add "minimum wage economics 101" to their high school curricula. After all, it's just poor people trying to make a living on minimum wage. Don't suppose a high school class would help them, but who cares, right?

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The thing is that a minium wage doesnt help poor people make a better living, just the opposite, but your pro-big goverment controled economic values tell you otherwise, but who cares right?

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Given the scope of executive orders from Obama,
arbitrary or unrestrained exercise of power; despotic abuse of authority. Synonyms: despotism, absolutism, dictatorship, could be used in some cases.

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Less than Bush, I would guess. I can tell you Obama has issued 168 Executive Orders in six years compared to 292 for Bush in eight years. You do realize the US is a republic and understand what that means, right?"

This has nothing to do with comparing Bush to Obama, it is Quality over Quanity, do not deflect the fact that Obama has used orders in a major way by bring up Bush, even if Bush has more, what does that prove?
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"
Jeez . . . I hope you are a Tea Party member. Your comments fit right in with them."

Shall we go down this road?

Jeez . . . I hope you are a Comunist Party USA member. Your comments fit right in with them.
 
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Theo_Goodman.... for a Moderator I think the time is long overdue for you to quote the person you are replying to, so as to make it a whole lot easier for others to follow what you are talking about and who you are quoting. Take for example the last part of your post:

"
Jeez . . . I hope you are a Tea Party member. Your comments fit right in with them."

Shall we go down this road?

Jeez . . . I hope you are a Comunist Party USA member. Your comments fit right in with them.

Who are you quoting and is the question yours or somebody else's? It's very confusing
post-36326-1110185726.gif.pagespeed.ce.9YzFhXNl04.gif
 
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The thing is that a minium wage doesnt help poor people make a better living, just the opposite, but your pro-big goverment controled economic values tell you otherwise, but who cares right?

No doubt one of the divergent micro/macro economics theories will prove how having $15 in my pocket makes me worse off than having $9.32 in it.

The increase to $15/hour from $9.32 in Seattle will take seven years. Kind of sounds like getting raises for seven years of work to reach $15/hr

If you want to consider city council "big government" that controls my values, go for it.
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Given the scope of executive orders from Obama, arbitrary or unrestrained exercise of power; despotic abuse of authority. Synonyms: despotism, absolutism, dictatorship, could be used in some cases.

". . . could be used in some cases"? You could say the same for every single president.

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Less than Bush, I would guess. I can tell you Obama has issued 168 Executive Orders in six years compared to 292 for Bush in eight years. You do realize the US is a republic and understand what that means, right?"

This has nothing to do with comparing Bush to Obama, it is Quality over Quanity, do not deflect the fact that Obama has used orders in a major way by bring up Bush, even if Bush has more, what does that prove?
If my point was simply numbers, i'd have used one of the several presidents who issued over 1000 executive orders.

Walker asked the question of how many executive orders Obama has issued that go against majority opinion. I don't think there is any way to answer such a question. The closest way was to figure all presidents issue a percentage of orders that go against the majority and use the total number by the previous president as a comparison. If you can answer the question for both presidents, please do.

"Jeez . . . I hope you are a Tea Party member. Your comments fit right in with them."

Shall we go down this road?

Jeez . . . I hope you are a Comunist Party USA member. Your comments fit right in with them.
Since I've been called mostly a liberal democrat, let's do go down this road. Which comments of mine are indicative of the US Communist party? I'm not sure I can be both, so help me find out which I am.
 
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"VERB: No doubt one of the divergent micro/macro economics theories will prove how having $15 in my pocket makes me worse off than having $9.32 in it.

The increase to $15/hour from $9.32 in Seattle will take seven years. Kind of sounds like getting raises for seven years of work to reach $15/hr

If you want to consider city council "big government" that controls my values, go for it.
"

HI,
So the city council decides what the miniumim wage is? Even if it does that would still be centraly planed economy.


Of course having 15$ in my pocket instead of 9.32 is more. However there is no free lunch.
Where did this 15$ come from? Perhaps it came from increased prices OR less workers being hired. So this does not help "the poor" as it leads to less employment and more regulations for businesses. If it gets too crazy then businesses will just leave. YEs of course some businesses pay stupidly low wages, however having a minimum wage is like shooting yourself in the foot. It just doesnt work. How long has there been a minimum wage in the USA? Great results so far!

A liberal democrat is a small skip to something like the comunist party USA, on many issues there is agreement. This does not mean that you are a communitst per se, however if you are going to go around and say something like " that is like the tea party , you should join the tea party" then it is by no means far reaching to say, "that is like the comunist party usa, you should join them".
 
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Of course having 15$ in my pocket instead of 9.32 is more. However there is no free lunch.
Where did this 15$ come from? Perhaps it came from increased prices OR less workers being hired. So this does not help "the poor" as it leads to less employment and more regulations for businesses. If it gets too crazy then businesses will just leave. YEs of course some businesses pay stupidly low wages, however having a minimum wage is like shooting yourself in the foot. It just doesnt work. How long has there been a minimum wage in the USA? Great results so far!

Not really, a lot of the negative affects people talk about aren't there or are overblown.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage

If people have more money in their pocket, they tend to spend it. Spending stimulates the economy. There is also less turnover, so less training which costs......... money. So money/time is saved there.

It hasn't kept up like it was supposed to/intended, Republicans keep voting against it, blocking it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimu...inimum_to_Average_Wage_for_OECD_Countries.png

$7.25 an hour, c'mon. I'm not saying anything like $20 but $10.10 doesn't seem bad.
 
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HI,
So the city council decides what the miniumim wage is? Even if it does that would still be centraly planed economy.

Central planning is what governments do, big and small. Are you opposed to that, too?


Of course having 15$ in my pocket instead of 9.32 is more. However there is no free lunch.
Where did this 15$ come from? Perhaps it came from increased prices OR less workers being hired. So this does not help "the poor" as it leads to less employment and more regulations for businesses.

You are making assumptions and then treating them as facts. You mean where did the extra $5.68 come from. And "perhaps" it came from tax breaks to businesses. If you don't know, don't act like it is a valid argument. You don't know what it leads to yet, as it's new.

If it gets too crazy then businesses will just leave. ".

You mean like the big corps that go to China? With how cheap they can get labor, no wonder they moved there. When workers make $10 or less a day, why wouldn't they go there? But if China had a $10 per hour minimum wage, they would stay here and help the economy.

YEs of course some businesses pay stupidly low wages, however having a minimum wage is like shooting yourself in the foot. It just doesnt work. How long has there been a minimum wage in the USA? Great results so far!".[/QUOTE]

A liberal democrat is a small skip to something like the comunist party USA, on many issues there is agreement. "

This does not mean that you are a communitst per se, however if you are going to go around and say something like " that is like the tea party , you should join the tea party" then it is by no means far reaching to say, "that is like the comunist party usa, you should join them".

thanks for bringing my attention to the USA Communist party. It's an interesting website, and definitely not "communist" in the cold war evil sense of the word. Their problem is using the word, "communist." Many Americans are socially trained to hate or distrust anything to do with that word, especially since it was associated with truly absolutist, despotic, cruel, governments.

Here's what those USA Communists say they stand for: "A better and peaceful world is possible a world where people and nature come before profits. That’s socialism. That’s our vision. We are the Communist Party USA."

They support net neutrality. They are against the Trans-Pacific Partnership.

Hmmm.... Maybe they believe in a global minimum wage. . .


 
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Not really, a lot of the negative affects people talk about aren't there or are overblown.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage

If people have more money in their pocket, they tend to spend it. Spending stimulates the economy. There is also less turnover, so less training which costs......... money. So money/time is saved there.

One thing you don't understand is a "forced" higher consumer surplus. When someone has more money, corporations will want more of it. This essentially takes the same $5 hamburger and turns it into $7 (to pay employees more, or keep it at $5 and run other small businesses out). What has changed? You wen't from $9.32 to $15, but you still have the same spending habits. How does this stimulate the economy by creating jobs when it's economics 101 states that it's false?

The demand for labor will be negatively sloped in all types of production for two reasons. First, a rise in the wage rate increases the costs of firms producing the commodity, forcing them to raise their selling prices. As the price of the product rises consumers will buy less of it and less output will be produced and sold. This means that less labor will be used. Second, since a rise in wages makes labor more expensive relative to capital, firms will substitute capital for labor. This means that less labor will be used to produce whatever output the firms in the industry sell.

It hasn't kept up like it was supposed to/intended, Republicans keep voting against it, blocking it.

Exactly, because it hurts, more than it will ever help. There will be more people on social programs, keeping American's sucking on the teet of the American government and voting liberals with these views to continue the suckle.


Although I don't believe Wikipedia to be 100% truthful, here is a counter argument to your graphic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rates - Notice the United States starts at 0%, whereas almost all the other countries have a higher flat tax system to help pay for all the social programs they have.

$7.25 an hour, c'mon. I'm not saying anything like $20 but $10.10 doesn't seem bad.
When Obama signed the $10.10 in, it just so happened to be the time of the Fiscal Year that many contracts were up and needed to be bid on through RFP's. As in most cases, the lowest bidder wins the contact. They will have to pay $10.10 at a minimum per employee. As they bid so low, they are not making the profits that they wished (and help their investors out), so they cut back on labor or make extensive policies to overwork people by mandating two 15 minute breaks and 1 hour for lunch (using time systems like Kronos with ID's).

As Kronos tracks by the minute, a good employee may get fired if deemed necessary due to it giving them a point for being even a second late (or early) clocking in because they're at a higher rate (say $25/hour before this).

I've seen people that were "over paid", get released because they were seconds late and points built up on their employee record for 1) clocking in a second early or 2) clocking in a second late. In addition to that, I've seen contracts be bid on so low that they need to be sub-contracted out from corporations like Lockheed Martin to smaller businesses so that $10.10 can be paid. This keeps LM profiting without dispensing their valuable assets around the world (human assets) with relocation expenses, cost of living adjustments, etc.

So tell me, how is $10.10 or even $15 helpful to anyone with an education of economics and a little bit of what I've seen in the government contracting world?

I would just like to propose an alternative and keep the minimum wage in America as is, easing it to no price floor at all. This will create competition among corporations of who pays more and who can hire the most qualified workers. Surely, this will give Wal-Mart a wake-up call as other retailers would pay more to compete with insider knowledge. What are your opinions on that? Nonsense? It borderlines that, but it may be effective.

http://www.bloomberg.com/video/what-will-15-minimum-wage-do-to-seattle-th8Feb8iTnCse9gSzdriyQ.html - First speaker (Richard Vedder, Ohio University Professor of Economics) hits it hard in 45 seconds, then you have a liberal speak tip-toeing around the issue like they always do (if you're right, just stop watching, though Richard Vedder goes on more to teach you some more economic principles).
 
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The Top 10 Countries with the Highest Minimum Wages

http://www.therichest.com/business/the-top-10-countries-with-the-highest-minimum-wages/

Something that has not been mentioned is the impact that illegal workers have on lowering the wages, which companies love. Because they are so grateful for any job, they will work for lower wages and minimal or no benefits, therefore enabling employers to make higher business profits.

http://www.fairus.org/issue/illegal-aliens-taking-u-s-jobs

Most Politicians are mere puppets and defenders of Big Corporations. These in turn don't give a flying crap about their workers and will pay extremely high wages to executives to find ways to pay lower wage employees the minimum possible.

Big companies in the 21st century are vastly different from the ones of 40-50 years ago. Today they want slaves working for them so that their top executives can earn indecently high wages and unbelievable benefits. They (Politicians and Big Corporations) are the scum of the earth, and as the years pass their control over everything we eat, drink, read, think and do, just gets stronger and stronger.

A massive revolution to remove this cancer from our society is long overdue.

http://www.owen.vanderbilt.edu/faculty-and-research/vanderbilt-business-
inbrief/lobbying-expenditures-yield-big-returns-for-companies.cfm

Why is it that Canada, right next door, has a minimum wage and things appear to work fine there, with a standard of living that, correct me if I'm wrong, is higher than the US. The same can be said about Europe where most countries have a minimum wage.

I say the problem is because of Politicians and Big Corporations. They need to have their wings clipped and the sooner the better.

When corporations bankroll politics, we all pay the price

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/oct/29/capitalism-bankrolls-politics-pay-price



 
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Central planning is what governments do, big and small. Are you opposed to that, too?

yes, I am opposed to violence and coercion, that is what goverment is all about.
You are making assumptions and then treating them as facts. You mean where did the extra $5.68 come from. And "perhaps" it came from tax breaks to businesses. If you don't know, don't act like it is a valid argument. You don't know what it leads to yet, as it's new.
No, when I say perhaps I mean perhaps. I guess I am not allowed an opinon as it is new. OK then all things new can not be commented on and there are no facts regarding them, so since it is such a great idea lets just see what happens right? If we use force to dictate the economy then it should be for the better of the poor? No.

You mean like the big corps that go to China? With how cheap they can get labor, no wonder they moved there. When workers make $10 or less a day, why wouldn't they go there? But if China had a $10 per hour minimum wage, they would stay here and help the economy.
No, I did not say China. Why are you -making assumptions and then treating them as facts- the fact is that I did not say China. Why? Because I mean in general, it is not hard to understand. If I am a business and the regulations make it impossible for my business to profit, then I will leave. That is it.

thanks for bringing my attention to the USA Communist party. It's an interesting website, and definitely not "communist" in the cold war evil sense of the word. Their problem is using the word, "communist." Many Americans are socially trained to hate or distrust anything to do with that word, especially since it was associated with truly absolutist, despotic, cruel, governments.

Here's what those USA Communists say they stand for: "A better and peaceful world is possible a world where people and nature come before profits. That’s socialism. That’s our vision. We are the Communist Party USA."

They support net neutrality. They are against the Trans-Pacific Partnership.

Hmmm.... Maybe they believe in a global minimum wage. . .
Umm no they are Communist in the very sense of the "cold war evil sense of the word". Yes of course Americans are socialised to distrust the word "communist". This party is comunist through and through, they are Marxist-Leninists "Our outlook is based on the social science of Marxism-Leninism". I am very sure they would support a world wide minimum wage, but this is of couse an assuption and not a fact. Join the fight! Sign UP! They even think that being a party and voting can be one step in the process towards socialism! I have not searched the archives, however I would also asume that they supported the regimes of soviet russia, cuba, venezuela and have interesting opinions about China and North Korea. You can decide for yourself if they support " truly absolutist, despotic, cruel, governments."

What I was saying though is that the whole concept of "that is a tea party comment, you should join them" - "that is a commuinst comment you should join them" mode of commenting doesnt help anything. It is used to defame someone and is an attempt to paint there opinion as invaild without discussing the point at hand.
 
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"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning" - Henry Ford 1922

This is a video everyone should watch, so as to understand what these bastards are doing to us:

 
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Read in the paper this morning that the USA is now the #1 oil producing country in the world, just edging out Saudi Arabia, but even though we produce 11 million barrels per day, we still import 7.5 million barrels per day to support our thirst.
 
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Read in the paper this morning that the USA is now the #1 oil producing country in the world, just edging out Saudi Arabia, but even though we produce 11 million barrels per day, we still import 7.5 million barrels per day to support our thirst.

If we would just raise the minium wage more then people could afford solar panels for their homes, but I am sure there is a conspiracy against that.
 
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