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This thread was created to bring a local new story to light, which can be viewed below:

JACKSON, Ohio (AP) — An Ohio school district decided Tuesday night to keep a portrait of Jesus hanging in the school where it's been 65 years, denying a federal lawsuit's claim the portrait's display unconstitutionally promotes religion in a public school.

The Jackson City Schools board offered a constitutional justification of its own in voting 4-0 to keep the portrait up in its middle school, saying it must protect students' free speech rights. The vote drew cheers and applause from the dozens of people gathered in the elementary school gymnasium.

Read all of it here: http://news.yahoo.com/ohio-school-b...xzBHB0A3N0b3J5cGFnZQR0ZXN0A1Rlc3RfQUZD;_ylv=3

I posted his here @ NP to see what ppl had to say on the issue. As it turns out, this sparked many debates. I've considered closing this thread but after multiple suggestions, I decided to keep it open. Feel free to join in the topics but per forum rules, please refrain from obscene, threatening, rude, or insulting posts.
 
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I would say that Ahmadinejad has walked all over and embarrassed American interviewers virtually every time.

Yeah, he really kicked ass when denying the holocaust.
 
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haha, ahmadinejad is actually not a genius or the god of rhetorics or something.
its just that these interviewers (mostly american interviewers) and the people who prepare the questions are soooooo dumb, even i could kick their ass in an interview with my broken english. asking the same dumb questions over and over again,,,, of course he is prepared. plus seams like these interviewers don't even know the difference between the countries, terror groups, ethnic groups, etc. etc. they always embarrass theirselves with lack of knowledge and stupidity and they don't even realize it. of course ahmadi also had some valid points, just like normally every side has some valid points and some unjustified ones.

there are a lot of other questions which could have put ahmadinejad in difficult and uncomfortable situations, they were just never asked the way they should have been asked.

even the counterquestions were dumb.
for instance when ahmadinejad asked "is killing a policeman seeking for democracy?".
a simple "are you saying that all the political activists, reformists, etc. who are now in your prisons or karoubi and mousavi who are under house arrest, ..they all killed your policeman?" instead of "no obviously not, its a crime". DUMBO

anyway, this interview was old, and there is a new 'president' anyway.
just for laugh (the Bin Laden part lol)
 
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Yeah, he really kicked ass when denying the holocaust.

I really detest Ahmadinejad for his denial of the holocaust, but what I and GiftedDomains are saying is that the American interviewers haven't a clue on how to interview and corner him. They ask dumb questions and keep repeating the same dumb questions in a different way.

A good example of the above video interview was the last question that Stephanopolous asked about whether Bin Laden was living in Iran at the time of the interview. That was pitifully embarrassing. What did he get out of insisting on that question? That Bin Laden was living in New York :lol:

haha, ahmadinejad is actually not a genius or the god of rhetorics or something.
its just that these interviewers (mostly american interviewers) and the people who prepare the questions are soooooo dumb, even i could kick their ass in an interview with my broken english. asking the same dumb questions over and over again,,,, of course he is prepared. plus seams like these interviewers don't even know the difference between the countries, terror groups, ethnic groups, etc. etc. they always embarrass theirselves with lack of knowledge and stupidity and they don't even realize it. of course ahmadi also had some valid points, just like normally every side has some valid points and some unjustified ones.

there are a lot of other questions which could have put ahmadinejad in difficult and uncomfortable situations, they were just never asked the way they should have been asked.

even the counterquestions were dumb.
for instance when ahmadinejad asked "is killing a policeman seeking for democracy?".
a simple "are you saying that all the political activists, reformists, etc. who are now in your prisons or karoubi and mousavi who are under hourse arrest, ..they all killed your policeman?" instead of "no obviously not, its a crime". DUMBO

anyway, this interview was old, and there is a new 'president' anyway.
just for laugh (the Bin Laden part lol)

Agreed. I could never have explained it better myself. The insistence of wanting to know if Bin Laden was living in Iran was so embarrassing :red: that it became laughable. But there were others, like Larry King who also got frustrated because he had a really hard time getting anything out of him.
 
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Some American journalists do their research and conduct great interviews. Unfortunately, you are correct about the stupid questions. Also, unfortunately, most prime time stuff is cut down to the 6th grade level of simplicity. . . not to mention, many who deliver the news are not good at interviews. Most can't even interview their own politicians, let alone get a straight answer.
 
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But there were others, like Larry King who also got frustrated because he had a really hard time getting anything out of him.

Thats because ahmadi is actually a buddhist and always uses buddha's method (with the particularity that he always and only uses the two options which i made bold and never the other two options :D)
There are these four ways of answering questions. Which four? There are questions that should be answered categorically [straightforwardly yes, no, this, that]. There are questions that should be answered with an analytical (qualified) answer [defining or redefining the terms]. There are questions that should be answered with a counter-question. There are questions that should be put aside. These are the four ways of answering questions. ”

—Buddha,
 
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Curious? I'm curious if anyone managed to make it through just the introduction of Sarah Palin's latest book without puking.
 
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I wanna get this thread back on the ground

Maybe 5 months with no one posting in this thread was a clue to drop it

Just an opinion.
 
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Maybe 5 months with no one posting in this thread was a clue to drop it

Just an opinion.
Don't drop it. Too much important stuff has been said. I'm still waiting to see someone puke after reading Sara Palin's latest book, as is Verbster's wish

I have been too busy to really make the 'long, detailed' post I planned to awhile back. So instead, I wanna get this thread back on the ground with this--I'm curious of opinions:

School Omits 'Christ' from 'Silent Night,' Upsetting Parents

They should puke on the members of that school's Board of Education for having such a stupid and offensive idea. What religion would be offended by the words in that song? Perhaps it was some atheist parent objecting.

Seems like in the eyes of some idiots, Christianity has become Politically incorrect
 
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It’s not a challenge I’d look forward to, personally.

Curious? I'm curious if anyone managed to make it through just the introduction of Sarah Palin's latest book without puking.

Nah. People don’t have the greatest attention-spans and we lose track (or just plain forget) numerous things. The fact that 5 months had passed really means nothing, in the greater scheme of things.

Maybe 5 months with no one posting in this thread was a clue to drop it

1.) $20 Paypal to anyone who can read the full thing without losing a lunch.

2.) Maybe/maybe not the word ‘Christ’ would have offended people. Correct me if I’m wrong, but the name is a LYRIC in the song--it’s supposed to be there. It’s desecration to remove the name just to make ppl happy. If they wanted to sing a “non-offensive” song, they should have just belted out “Frosty the Snowman” or something.

Don't drop it. Too much important stuff has been said. I'm still waiting to see someone puke after reading Sara Palin's latest book, as is Verbster's wish



They should puke on the members of that school's Board of Education for having such a stupid and offensive idea. What religion would be offended by the words in that song? Perhaps it was some atheist parent objecting.

Seems like in the eyes of some idiots, Christianity has become Politically incorrect
 
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Don't drop it. Too much important stuff has been said. I'm still waiting to see someone puke after reading Sara Palin's latest book, as is Verbster's wish
.

Nah, just the introduction will suffice.

Seems like in the eyes of some idiots, Christianity has become Politically incorrect

Seems more that religion itself is becoming politically incorrect. Pretty soon we'll be using terms like "The R word" or "The C word" or "The M word" in order not to offend anyone, religious or not. Seems funny that humans have a need to label things to identify them, then turn around and go to great pains to make another label to label the thing we don't want to label for fear of offending anyone. What's the old saying . . . You can please some of the people some of the time . . . .
 
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Marks & Spencer in the UK tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...fuse-serve-customers-buying-alcohol-pork.html

Hmmmm.... does that mean that M & S non-Muslim staff can also refuse to serve shoppers from buying Halal food?

I'll bet they would be fired in the wink of an eye if they dared to do something like that. Political Correctness gone haywire

I know exactly what I'd do if I was refused
 
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Marks & Spencer in the UK tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...fuse-serve-customers-buying-alcohol-pork.html

Hmmmm.... does that mean that M & S non-Muslim staff can also refuse to serve shoppers from buying Halal food?

I'll bet they would be fired in the wink of an eye if they dared to do something like that. Political Correctness gone haywire

I know exactly what I'd do if I was refused

I'd be curious to hear what you would do.
 
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I'd be curious to hear what you would do.
If I was living in the UK and that happened (it would never happen here in Portugal) I would refuse to go to another counter and demand to be served by a non-muslim. If they would not accept that then I'd leave all my shopping at the check-out counter, walk away, never shop at M&S again and make a lot of negative noise against them thereafter.

Now tell me what you'd do
 
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If I was living in the UK and that happened (it would never happen here in Portugal) I would refuse to go to another counter and demand to be served by a non-muslim. If they would not accept that then I'd leave all my shopping at the check-out counter, walk away, never shop at M&S again and make a lot of negative noise against them thereafter.

Now tell me what you'd do

I would switch checkout lines. You can't have it both ways. Either personal freedoms, including the right to serve whomever the owners choose are protected, or employers have no say-so over the action of their employees. Who's to say what business owners can allow or disallow what their employees can do? Isn't it the same thing when an employer insists on having their employs sell something, condoms, for example, even thought the employee doesn't believe in birth control? How can you object to employers their freedom to decide policy for their establishment yet support the right of catholic pharmacies and/or pharmacists to not sell birth control pills to customers?

What makes it okay for any store or restaurant the right to sell or serve any type of food over another? Why do some restaurants allow firearms inside, and others don't (and refuse to serve people carrying weapons? What determines crossing a union strike line is or isn't acceptable? Where does it all begin and end?
 
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I would switch checkout lines. You can't have it both ways. Either personal freedoms, including the right to serve whomever the owners choose are protected, or employers have no say-so over the action of their employees. Who's to say what business owners can allow or disallow what their employees can do? Isn't it the same thing when an employer insists on having their employs sell something, condoms, for example, even thought the employee doesn't believe in birth control? How can you object to employers their freedom to decide policy for their establishment yet support the right of catholic pharmacies and/or pharmacists to not sell birth control pills to customers?

What makes it okay for any store or restaurant the right to sell or serve any type of food over another? Why do some restaurants allow firearms inside, and others don't (and refuse to serve people carrying weapons? What determines crossing a union strike line is or isn't acceptable? Where does it all begin and end?

"I would switch checkout lines" ::lol::...Really????

Catholic Pharmacies not selling birth control pills? :-/. That's a pretty dumb comparison. It's like complaining that Muslim restaurants don't serve bacon.

That's a really typical Politically Correct answer. Didn't really expect anything else from a liberal

If M&S sells booze or pork then they cannot discriminate a customer because of a Muslim employee's religious beliefs. M&S cannot have it both ways, They either have to sell all their products to all their customers, or put that employee doing something else, but preferably have that employee find a job elsewhere.
 
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It's because of the agreement between company and the employer I think.
I live in a country where around %90 of the population is Muslim and there are shops around selling alcohol, birth control pills and condoms. Nobody cares at all. There are even some pig farms. Hehe
I can't say anything, it is up to people's choices.I personally believe we gotta take it easy in such kind of situations.
 
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If you're some companies employee and you're a cashier, you check out whatever the customer brings to the register. You should check your religion at the door. If you have a problem with whatever somebody is selling, then get another job or don't get that job in the first place.
 
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"I would switch checkout lines" ::lol::...Really????

I think one of us has a misunderstanding of what's going on at M&S. It's my understanding, Muslim employees have been given permission not to handle/check out pork and alcohol products at check stands if they don't want to, but people can still buy theses products from non-Muslim employees. If this is the case, then yes, I would simply change check out lines and respect the store's decision to grant a right of refusal to its employees. It's their store and their decision.

Catholic Pharmacies not selling birth control pills? :-/. That's a pretty dumb comparison. It's like complaining that Muslim restaurants don't serve bacon.
You misunderstand. I am not complaining. I'm simply trying to show you that businesses have the right to serve and reserve the right to refuse service customers. And, in this case, the business has opted to respect an employee's religious beliefs and not force them to sell foods their religion finds objectionable.

You may not like their policy, but that was their decision. And since it was their decision, if you choose to shop in M&S, you will need to abide by their decision.

That's a really typical Politically Correct answer. Didn't really expect anything else from a liberal.
Just the kind of comment I would expect from you.

If M&S sells booze or pork then they cannot discriminate a customer because of a Muslim employee's religious beliefs. M&S cannot have it both ways, They either have to sell all their products to all their customers, or put that employee doing something else, but preferably have that employee find a job elsewhere.

Let me simplify this situation using your arguments and see if your newly-found liberal equal opportunity belief structure still applies: If a woman goes to a Wal-Mart pharmacy to buy the "morning after" emergency contraceptive pill, using your "can't have it both ways" argument, if the pharmacy sells it, then the clerks working there must sell it to her, right? Even if a clerk's religion believes using the morning after pill is the equivalent of murder, and even if Wal-Mart has told pharmacy employees they can refuse to sell the morning after pill if their religion does not believe in contraception or abortion. To paraphrase what you wrote, If Wal-Mart sells the morning after pill, then they cannot discriminate a customer because of a Christian employee's religious beliefs (even if Wal-Mart says they can).

---------- Post added at 12:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:05 AM ----------

If you're some companies employee and you're a cashier, you check out whatever the customer brings to the register. You should check your religion at the door. If you have a problem with whatever somebody is selling, then get another job or don't get that job in the first place.

That's the thing about religion, though, isn't it; it's your core of being and not something that can be checked at the door. Besides, your short opinion doesn't include the main consideration of the company granting permission not to sell certain products because of religion. I'd guess the Muslims at M&S checked out whatever people bought until the store changed its policies. Who knows, some Muslims may still check pork and alcohol through despite the new policy. I wouldn't be a all surprised.

The irony here is that while you advise people with religious conflicts with their employment to get another job or don't get that job in the first place, sometimes getting a job, any job, is necessary for survival, and, of course, US employers can't not hire employees because of their religious beliefs.
 
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Marks & Spencer in the UK tells Muslim staff they CAN refuse to serve customers buying alcohol or pork.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...fuse-serve-customers-buying-alcohol-pork.html

First for non-British people - the Daily Mail is a tabloid paper with a reputation for stirring up nationalist sentiment. It is very anti-immigration, has an anti-Polish, anti-German bent, anti- anything that could rile people up bent. They will find the worst benefits cheat in the country thats from Nigeria and spend pages and pages and pages talking about this as the 'new normal'.

People generally consider Daily Mail readers to be be morons.


or put that employee doing something else, but preferably have that employee find a job elsewhere.

That's what their policy is. They failed to follow their guidelines in the store in London and the assistant "very politely declined" and suggested they wait for another person to help.

This is the same as companies allowing Jewish employees to have the Sabbath away from work and Christians to take time off on Sundays.

There's really no story here at all.

There's a bigger issue with the plethora of Sunday based rules across the world... but that doesn't sell papers yet in the same way that anti-muslim sentiment does.
 
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First for non-British people - the Daily Mail is a tabloid paper with a reputation for stirring up nationalist sentiment. It is very anti-immigration, has an anti-Polish, anti-German bent, anti- anything that could rile people up bent. They will find the worst benefits cheat in the country thats from Nigeria and spend pages and pages and pages talking about this as the 'new normal'.

People generally consider Daily Mail readers to be be morons.
People like yourself who Don't read the Daily Mail are the biggest morons for NOT wanting to hear the truth. The MSM is the biggest enemy of the people by maintaining them ignorant of the true facts with their politically correct BS
 
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The same with religion and schools, religion and the workplace isn’t a good combination.

I see it in this light: businesses are not forced to give their business to everyone. I’m a writer and have done a little freelance here and there. But I’m not required to serve anyone of everyone. I can refuse people for any reason I want. The reasons could be good ie my lack of time or my lack of desire to freelance. And yes, I could go the asshole route & refuse people because of their gender, race, religion, sexual identity or orientation etc. I have the right to. And this company has the right to tell its employees that they can refuse to assist certain people. Everything is up to them.

But that doesn’t save people from opinions and backlash.

Hypothetical situation: I’m a pizza delivery guy who is told of a house in a dangerous neighborhood. I believe that I should be able to deny the delivery, for my own safety. And that shouldn’t be condemned or frowned upon. I shouldn’t be forced into it. But let’s say the ppl who ordered it are satanic and I’m a devout Christian. I should NOT be allowed to say, “They’re satanic people. I refuse to even look at them!” If I had no REAL reason to deny it, I should be forced into it, as that is my job. Safety vs personal preference isn’t an argument.

But here, we are talking about a COMPANY THAT ALLOWS ITS WORKERS to deny services. As stated, the company has the right (Verbster really hit it on the head). The company is in sound grounds to do it. There really is no sense in even boycotting the store or anything similar. They work as they do. If you don’t like it, just change lanes. That, of course, or simply don’t shop there. Is that hard to do? Is it impossible to avoid the place and go elsewhere? The store might get a lot of bad press and might lose customers. But if that’s the risk they wanna take, let them take it. It’s not a religious thing any more or less than it is a business thing. Stores are not forced to serve you. So if they don’t, shrug and walk away.
 
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The same with religion and schools, religion and the workplace isn’t a good combination.

I see it in this light: businesses are not forced to give their business to everyone. I’m a writer and have done a little freelance here and there. But I’m not required to serve anyone of everyone. I can refuse people for any reason I want. The reasons could be good ie my lack of time or my lack of desire to freelance. And yes, I could go the asshole route & refuse people because of their gender, race, religion, sexual identity or orientation etc. I have the right to. And this company has the right to tell its employees that they can refuse to assist certain people. Everything is up to them.

But that doesn’t save people from opinions and backlash.

Hypothetical situation: I’m a pizza delivery guy who is told of a house in a dangerous neighborhood. I believe that I should be able to deny the delivery, for my own safety. And that shouldn’t be condemned or frowned upon. I shouldn’t be forced into it. But let’s say the ppl who ordered it are satanic and I’m a devout Christian. I should NOT be allowed to say, “They’re satanic people. I refuse to even look at them!” If I had no REAL reason to deny it, I should be forced into it, as that is my job. Safety vs personal preference isn’t an argument.

But here, we are talking about a COMPANY THAT ALLOWS ITS WORKERS to deny services. As stated, the company has the right (Verbster really hit it on the head). The company is in sound grounds to do it. There really is no sense in even boycotting the store or anything similar. They work as they do. If you don’t like it, just change lanes. That, of course, or simply don’t shop there. Is that hard to do? Is it impossible to avoid the place and go elsewhere? The store might get a lot of bad press and might lose customers. But if that’s the risk they wanna take, let them take it. It’s not a religious thing any more or less than it is a business thing. Stores are not forced to serve you. So if they don’t, shrug and walk away.

Marks & Spencer is a major British multinational retailer with over1,000 stores, employing over 81,000 people worldwide with a revenue of about $14 billion last year. If they have Muslim employees in the UK that refuse to serve a customer who buys alcohol and pork, then they should either remove those products from the shelf or remove the Muslim employee from the check out counter. Nothing complicated about that.

Delivering a pizza to a house in a dangerous neighborhood is a very different situation. The delivery guy is putting his life at risk, so it would be understandable if he refuses.

You say: "If you don’t like it, just change lanes". Now lets imagine you've taken out all your grocery shopping and put it in the counter, the employee has already checked out most of the stuff when he/she notices a bottle of whiskey or some bacon. The employee "politely declines" to continue serving you, so you patiently put all your groceries in the shopping cart and go look for a booze friendly employee. Would you really do this?

M&S probably adopted this pathetic politically correct policy after some complaint from some Muslim employee or Muslim organization, since the goal of many Muslims in the UK is to create a Sharia State there and they are not shy about openly admitting that..

Imagine the uproar if M&S came out with a policy that allowed their non-Muslim staff to refuse to serve Muslim shoppers from buying Halal food. The MSM wouldn't stop talking about it for weeks and DU would be fuming from his ear holes.

So I say: good for the Daily Mail (and others) for exposing this BS
 
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then they should either remove those products from the shelf or remove the Muslim employee from the check out counter. Nothing complicated about that.

From the article you posted:

An M&S spokesman said: 'Where we have an employee whose religious beliefs restrict food or drink they can handle, we work closely with our member of staff to place them in a suitable role.

So no, it's not complicated.

A failure of implementation at a store in London isn't news. The only thing that this article does is spur anti-muslim sentiment.

Perhaps Jewish staff have the same leeway? I'm sure the investigative journalism at the Daily Mail would have thought to look into this but then being anti-semitic isn't as cool these days as it was when Oswald Mosely got favourable print.

I personally don't think the policy makes sense and there are many muslims who feel the same way. Some muslims say you should not even work where profit is made from pork/alcohol at all, some muslims say you should serve anything if you work there as handling the goods doesn't violate any religious laws. Other muslims agree with the opt-out policy.

Acknowledging this diversity within a large group is simply inconvenient and best ignored when you have an EDL type agenda.

I'm more concerned with M&S and its use of Workfare but that's just capitalist enterprise and therefore not worth too much discussion, right? All that does it stop lazy people collecting benefits.

Imagine the uproar if M&S came out with a policy that allowed their non-Muslim staff to refuse to serve Muslim shoppers from buying Halal food. The MSM wouldn't stop talking about it for weeks and DU would be fuming from his ear holes.

How is that the same? In the article the argument is that individuals are allowed to refuse to serve you on the basis of their religion not on yours. You've reversed that.

This is more like a Catholic refusing to sell contraception.

People like yourself who Don't read the Daily Mail are the biggest morons for NOT wanting to hear the truth. The MSM is the biggest enemy of the people by maintaining them ignorant of the true facts with their politically correct BS

The Daily Mail is "truth"?
The MSM keeps people ignorant?

So either the Daily Mail is not MSM or the truth leaves people ignorant?

Either I'm totally confused or you have no clue what you're talking about.
 
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