alert PayPal Chargeback Scam (Arunas Zygis / [email protected])

[varmuk]

I have sold two domain on 25 oct 2016 to a buyer here @ namepro .

@John Pem

Payment sent:
Customer Number: 140330781
[email protected]

Now on 30 Oct 2016 I have found a dispute [unauthorized transition] for the same payment, in paypal. The paypal account holder (Arunas Zygis) is saying some else has used his account without his permission. Buyer is not available here from last 24-48 hours,

Domain stolen >> "Xwire,com", "Ujvj.com"
paypal claim attached from [email protected] / [email protected]

---

Update on Mar 29, 2017:

• https://www.namepros.com/threads/1009388/

 

[Haz Issac]

The money still in your paypal account? or already transfer to your bank account?

 

[varmuk]

"pending"
negative outstanding balance

 

[Haykay2005]

Always consider trade rating/feedback before doing business with anyone here

 

[adrey]

This is a huge problem for all of us. Something must be done......

 

[steitieh]

This is a huge problem for all of us. Something must be done......

The real problem here is nothing can be done. This doesn't only affect NamePros or even the Domaining niche - it's a general problem while using PayPal overall.

I believe your best bet would be trying to reverse the domains through GoDaddy by sending them the efficient proof or payment reversal. @Joe Styler is a real elegant and helpful person - I am sure if anything can be done in this era he'd be glad to help.

I hope you get your domains and (or) money back ...

 

[Jv1999]

yeah that's really f'in shizzy if they're stealing 4Ls.

Ask ksusha what to do because she was in a similar situation but got the domains back from GD.

I guess the rule of thumb should be for anything over $500, do Escrow.

Wish PayPal wasn't such an idiot, but hey that's online life.

 

[varmuk]

yeah that's really f'in shizzy if they're stealing 4Ls.

Ask ksusha what to do because she was in a similar situation but got the domains back from GD.

I guess the rule of thumb should be for anything over $500, do Escrow.

Wish PayPal wasn't such an idiot, but hey that's online life.

__________________
A PROFILE LINK OF HER WILL BE MORE HELPFULL

 

[Jv1999]

__________________
A PROFILE LINK OF HER WILL BE MORE HELPFULL

@ksusha64

 

[Pierre Barnard]

This is a big problem.

 

[varmuk]

This is a big problem.

in this case 4 only

 

[Apprich]

Paypal is problematic.. We should find better payment type than paypal... Maybe btc, or payoneer.

 

[Eric Lyon]

I just want to let everyone know that we are investigating this.

 

[varmuk]

Godaddy reply:

Discussion Notes
Support Staff Response
Thank you for your email. It appears you entered into a third party agreement regarding the domain name(s) and initiated the account change. As such, we are not able to become involved in this dispute.

Any further dispute over the registration of the domain name(s) will need to be sent either to the registrant, through an ICANN-approved arbitration provider (http://www.icann.org/dndr/udrp/approved-providers.htm) or the court system. Please be assured that if we receive notice of a filed legal dispute we will lock the name(s) so that it cannot be transferred or otherwise modified. Likewise, when we receive a decision we will update the name(s) accordingly. If you file a dispute concerning the domain name(s), please have your legal counsel review our Attorney Tips for information regarding the submission of such documentation to GoDaddy for review: https://www.godaddy.com/agreements/showdoc.aspx?pageid=CIVIL_SUBPOENA. Please note that it is never necessary to name GoDaddy in a dispute, as we will abide by decisions and orders issued by an ICANN-approved arbitration forum or a court of competent jurisdiction.

If you find that you are unable to contact the registrant because information in the Whois database is invalid, such as containing a disconnected telephone number or an undeliverable mailing address, please send a detailed email to [email protected]

 

[Kuffy]

Do people still use PayPal - this stuff has been going on for so long that I'm surprised people still include it as a payment option. There are so many alternatives.

 

[alcy]

I think if you have smaller transactions, then paypal is fine. plus u can request payment as service (not goods), which technicaly a domain transfer is.. a service, cause it sure as heck is not shippable and does not need a shipping address... and for a service, I don't think buyer can do chargeback.

otherwise, for larger deals I too recommend escrow.com or others. gl.

 

[SamQuino]

Show attachment 42287
I have sold two domain on 25 oct 2016 to a buyer here @ namepro .

https://www.namepros.com/members/john-pem.993194/

Now on 30 oct 2016 I have found a dispute [unauthorized transition] for the same payment,in paypal.The paypal account holder is saying some else has used his account without his permission.Buyer is not available here from last 24-48 hours,

Domain stolen >> "Xwire,com", "Ujvj.com"
paypal claim attached

such an amazing 4Ls domain name. how much did this "domain thief" buyer got it?

 

[krx]

Do people still use PayPal - this stuff has been going on for so long that I'm surprised people still include it as a payment option. There are so many alternatives.

Do you know of alternatives for small transactions (eg under $500) that don't have similar issues?

 

[Silentptnr]

Maybe @Joe Styler could help you at GD. No guarantee, but he might be able to help there.

Otherwise, hopefully PP will sort it out and give you the money. Good Luck.

 

[alcy]

also a worthwhile note, cause I actually called paypal to inquire about this today as I wasn't sure myself..

they said this:

1 - domain payments are treated like any other digital good payments.. ebooks etc..
so they do recognize domain payments, what you need to make sure buyer does is selects no shipping address when paying for goods. this tells them its a digital transaction. and its a crucial part of their investigation afterward.. that there be no shipping address present. it can make all difference they told me. they also said its best to create invoice for buyer, and not have them send you money. this way in invoice you can add specific note and details about transaction. like saying it is only ownership transfer and no goods are present or refunds offered.

that's for "payment for goods" chargeback can still be filed, and depending on reason type, they will fight it for you. they will not fight it though if for instance shipping address is present etc. so remember that part they said.

2- .....now about payment for domains as "family friends payment"
no protection offered, BUT they said 9/10 times, they will reject all credit card chargeback claims, as this is clearly a personal payment type. their words not mine.

and lastly:

ideal way to not get chargeback is ask for echeck/bank funded payment. even if takes few days to clear. or simply to pay using paypal balance. can ask for screenshot of paypal balance as proof too from people you do not know. it can fail, be faked at last minute etc.. but it's better than nothing imo.

so those are the things I do to minimize risks. hope to help.
cheers

 

[Apprich]

Do you know of alternatives for small transactions (eg under $500) that don't have similar issues?

- Payoneer has free of charge for money transfer from one account to another account.. Money transfer is not reversible unless you contact to support i guess. So this may solve charge back issue. However minimum amount to transfer is $50 so lower transactions can't be done.

- Btc is taking fractions of the payment fee.. Have not much experience with this, not sure if there is charge back way. But you can send any amount without problem, only issue here Btc value is changing quite fast so you may need to convert your btc into usd or some other currency immediately after transfer.

In all possible ways i see there are issues in terms of safety and security.. So, i think real solution is here not to trade with low trade score members.. Or at least if you are trading with new member with low score on namepros, your transaction amount should not be high as much you would risk to loose..

 

[Kuffy]

Do you know of alternatives for small transactions (eg under $500) that don't have similar issues?

Bitcoin - there is no chargeback, and there is a permanent record of the transaction. It is also possible to incorporate a type of escrow if you use multi-sig, and you have a trusted 3rd party.

 

[mitch007]

Immediately, from now on, when someone wants to buy one your domains, like a llll.com or any other "expensive" domain tell the buyer you will send him a paypal invoice/request for money...

Put this exact info on the invoice -->

This transaction represents the service for the digital transfer of ownership of website domain ______________
No goods are present or sent and nothing was "shipped." No refunds are offered.

 

[alcy]

Bitcoin - there is no chargeback, and there is a permanent record of the transaction. It is also possible to incorporate a type of escrow if you use multi-sig, and you have a trusted 3rd party.

I do not use bitcoin so not sure abotu this 3rd party you mention. but you gotta remember that the buyer wants protection too... so its likely they will be very hesitant to send you btc before getting domain. in same way many who are aware of paypal policies and lack of protection for buyer (and seller) will not want to pay using family/friends payment option.

 

[alcy]

Immediately, from now on, when someone wants to buy one your domains, like a llll.com or any other "expensive" domain tell the buyer you will send him a paypal invoice/request for money...

Put this exact info on the invoice -->

This transaction represents the service for the digital transfer of ownership of website domain ______________
No goods are present or sent and nothing was "shipped." No refunds are offered.

yes! a very nice template to add to invoice. paypal also emphasized when I Talked to them that the buyer selects "no shipping address"... it may not seem like much to people here, and it didn't seem like much to me either, but when I called management abotu all this, they put a whole lot of emphasis on this no shipping address part.. and said its crucial in case of claims and problems later on.... so might as well keep that in mind.