alert PayPal Chargeback Scam (Arunas Zygis / [email protected])

[varmuk]

I have sold two domain on 25 oct 2016 to a buyer here @ namepro .

@John Pem

Payment sent:
Customer Number: 140330781
[email protected]

Now on 30 Oct 2016 I have found a dispute [unauthorized transition] for the same payment, in paypal. The paypal account holder (Arunas Zygis) is saying some else has used his account without his permission. Buyer is not available here from last 24-48 hours,

Domain stolen >> "Xwire,com", "Ujvj.com"
paypal claim attached from [email protected] / [email protected]

---

Update on Mar 29, 2017:

• https://www.namepros.com/threads/1009388/

 

[thekiller]

Immediately, from now on, when someone wants to buy one your domains, like a llll.com or any other "expensive" domain tell the buyer you will send him a paypal invoice/request for money...

Put this exact info on the invoice -->

This transaction represents the service for the digital transfer of ownership of website domain ______________
No goods are present or sent and nothing was "shipped." No refunds are offered.

I have seen this before, possibly from you but question arises will PayPal accept these terms on top of their own terms that provide protection to the buyers?

 

[Hani A.]

Best solution is to use an escrow service
or to accept payments in non refundable method e.g. Bitcoin or Bank Transfer

 

[alcy]

I have seen this before, possibly from you but question arises will PayPal accept these terms on top of their own terms that provide protection to the buyers?

this is just for clarity's sake. nothing we invent takes priority over paypal terms. but when claims arise, paypal needs clear info as to what the deal was about. so that's all that does.

when they pay you as family/friends payment, if you can convince buyer to do that for yuo, then claims are not not issue. cause neither buyer nor seller can do anytning.. it's a final payment. yes they can try to file chargeback if pauid via credit card, but I Was told in 9/10 cases, chargeback will be denied cause it was all listed as personal money payment.

so the real problem is chargebacks.
all else is fine with paypal.

like I Said before, you can also try to get out of buyr information whether they can pay with paypal balance. maybe even ask for screenshot as proof. paypal balance also means no chance of chargeback. or alernatively, bank funded echeck/instant bank payment. in those two last cases, buyer stil is fully protected against you not delivering domain, and can file claim.. but if he gets domain he cannot falsely file chargeback on you.

cheers

 

[krx]

yes! a very nice template to add to invoice. paypal also emphasized when I Talked to them that the buyer selects "no shipping address"... it may not seem like much to people here, and it didn't seem like much to me either, but when I called management abotu all this, they put a whole lot of emphasis on this no shipping address part.. and said its crucial in case of claims and problems later on.... so might as well keep that in mind.

So under "Seller Protection Address" on the Transaction Details it will show no address, is that how you would confirm this?

 

[alcy]

So under "Seller Protection Address" on the Transaction Details it will show no address, is that how you would confirm this?

yes. but that is something the buyer needs to select at checkout.. click on address info, and change it to "no shiping address". it's not something you can pick for him on invoice or money request.

 

[varmuk]

Buyer has "non verified US account".
Is this thing matter ?

 

[alcy]

Buyer has "non verified US account".
Is this thing matter ?

it's always ideal to have US accounts of verified people.. but those things mostly matter for sales of shippable goods.. when you want seller protection etc..

for domain transfers, what you want to prevent is chargebacks from credit card. that's the problem with paypal. and its the only problem with paypal. in usa they also have prepaid paypal mycash cards.. u go to market, you buy card for XXX$, then load it into your paypal balance using some X digit pin on card. no chargebacks there either.

 

[CraigAK]

Sadly this has been going on for years with PayPal and they don't seem to care. I don't think they have taken any action to prevent this.

 

[Jeff Weller]

We first got charged back by Paypal on merchandise going back 15 years ago. If you live with Paypal you must have a 2nd "sweep" account that they don't have access to. Move your balance to the sweep account immediately and never leave money in Paypal. These days many US banks offer free no service charge accounts so a 2nd sweep account is easy.
Is it foolproof ? Not if you are constantly getting Paypal funds. If they can't grab enough to recover the chargeback from funds in your account or your back up source they will disable your account until the matter is resolved or you pay up. Make sure your backup funding source is a controlled minimum amount.
All you may do by this method is prevent them from charging you back one time but if your account is closed you obviously have to find another payment method. The horror story of Varmuk here is a common one.
There are many. People have lost businesses and worse. Go to PaypalSucksdotcom to read some amazing stories. The Paypal user agreement and online dispute form now is so one sided against the merchant/seller that if you deliver physical merchandise, someone can receive it, replace the contents with rocks, ship it back with tracking and once the tracking is confirmed as being received by the merchant - the buyer/scammer will immediately be credited and the merchant charged back. If you are a small seller with no dedicated account rep - good luck trying to fight it.
If this doesn't scare the crap out of you - it should.

 

[900Worldwide]

This is super easy case to win with Paypal.. I suggest you call them and explain your situation have them escalate your claim.. Their going to have you upload proof that you transferred the domains to this person.. Screenshots of your conversation and the emails from the registrar.. Also you have to prove that the buyer made an informed decision... Buyer is not cover for buyers remorse..
This happen to me a few times and I won all the time... PayPal has seller protection

 

[ngenme]

what is the result? if this is fraud can you report this to cops? Somebody may go to jail

 

[Dondomainer]

when you talk to paypal you have to be clear, i will not pay, until I can recover my property.

I think paypal must update its terms because this is becoming more common.

by the way, who is the user ?

 

[decades80]

When buying on Namepros and Paying by Paypal to avoid Escrow fees, I always offer to pay as gift, did that already several times in 500 - 1000 USD range. Some people with 1 or 2 ratings already offered to me to transfer the domain first. So I think it should be as per rule, that lets say weaker link (fewer feedbacks) pay as Gift by Paypal.

 

[alcy]

When buying on Namepros and Paying by Paypal to avoid Escrow fees, I always offer to pay as gift, did that already several times in 500 - 1000 USD range. Some people with 1 or 2 ratings already offered to me to transfer the domain first. So I think it should be as per rule, that lets say weaker link (fewer feedbacks) pay as Gift by Paypal.

yes! agreed! gift=family/friends payment.
bulletproof for seller!
I'd love to see low feedback people here obligated to pay as gift to higher rep sellers... sadly, knowing the mods here, this will never ever happen as a rule.

cheers.

 

[mitch007]

yes! agreed! gift=family/friends payment.
bulletproof for seller!
I'd love to see low feedback people here obligated to pay as gift to higher rep sellers... sadly, knowing the mods here, this will never ever happen as a rule.

cheers.

Thats right.. there is a conflict with Namepros rules on selling.

Not sure what to do now since all the newbies and lurkers in here now know there is a "Paypal" gray scam area that they did not not existed before. I think we need some directives now

 

[alcy]

But what about the conflict with Namepros rules on selling ????

absolutely true!
its mostly because of this I said we will never see this implemented.

but .. rules are just rules.. same people who made them can change them.. if they want to.

 

[DnDigger]

yes! agreed! gift=family/friends payment.
bulletproof for seller!
I'd love to see low feedback people here obligated to pay as gift to higher rep sellers... sadly, knowing the mods here, this will never ever happen as a rule.

cheers.

It isn't bulletproof (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=997358.10)

 

[mitch007]

absolutely true!
its mostly because of this I said we will never see this implemented.

but .. rules are just rules.. same people who made them can change them.. if they want to.

So the bottom line if we sell a domain via gift-family and friends procedure the buyer has no recourse against us (the seller) and cannot do a paypal chargeback??

 

[maya-zir]

i paid as gift by paypal this march and could recieve money back.
ok, it was not domain related issue, but i recieved around 60 euros without any proof.
i offered to paypal whatsapp chat screens and audio records with seller, butthey told no necesary.

 

[HotKey]

i paid as gift by paypal this march and could recieve money back.
ok, it was not domain related issue, but i recieved around 60 euros without any proof.
i offered to paypal whatsapp chat screens and audio records with seller, butthey told no necesary.

Really? That's the first I heard of that being able to be done with the "gift" payment.. Can you give more details?

 

[HotKey]

So the bottom line if we sell a domain via gift-family and friends procedure the buyer has no recourse against us (the seller) and cannot do a paypal chargeback??

Yes, but you end up having to explain to first-time buyers why they have to pay as gift, and then they may end up feeling uncomfortable and backing out of the sale.

 

[maya-zir]

i just called to paypal and told i paid around 60 euros and the seller asked me to pay as gift, i knew him and acepted.
i told i had whatsapp chat screen and all our conversation audio records (i use call record app on my mobile).
i told i could send them all.
they told no necesary.
i think they just paid me ftom thier funds, because the sum was small and i had a good history of my paypal account as seller and as buyer.
the seller also had a good history (i think) so they just paid me 60 euro and told not to pay as gift anymore.

 

[Domaintics]

@varmuk So sad to hear this

 

[decades80]

Yes Paypal as gift should be applied just in extreme cases, because paying as gift for domains could be against Paypal policy, doing it to often, could cause limitation of your Paypal account. I normally just offer it for a seller to feel safe the next 180 days and there is only 0.5 - 1% fee when you pay as a Gift with your Paypal balance.

 

[DTradr]

definitely use escrow .com even if you have to cover a couple of points in fees. well worth the piece of mind..