Fake PayPal claim after payment for CCNYS.COM domain name

[Dondomainer]

I will not beat around the bush, this is the real buyer information.

Buyer Name: Milton Silber
Buyer Email: [email protected]
Transaction Amount: $850.00 USD
Transaction Date: Sep 4, 2016

( Phone Number : 347-668-9186 )

Buyer's Address:
183 wilson st
Brooklyn , NY 11211
United States

Claim datail.

The buyer has filed a chargeback with his or her credit card company stating that the buyer did not authorize the payment.

The credit card company has reversed the payment, and we've placed a temporary hold on the funds while we review this case. If this transaction is covered by protection against unauthorized payments, we'll lift the temporary hold and restore the funds to your account. If the transaction is not eligible, we'll return the funds to the buyer or the rightful owner.

For this transaction to be covered by protection against unauthorized payments, please provide proof that you shipped the item through an approved shipper to the address on the Transaction Details page.

If the item is not a tangible good, this transaction is not eligible for protection against unauthorized payments. However, depending on the information you provide, we may be able to help you recover your funds by disputing the chargeback with the credit card company. Please provide us with information about your case. We'll let you know if we can dispute the chargeback with the credit card company.

---------

But what Mr Milton Silber forgets, is the reason of payment.

 

[DNVantage]

one way to get around this I think (double check it) is taking a service payment instead of payment for goods. which a domain transfer essentially is anyway.. cause no shipping occurs, no physical goods involved..

How do you take service payment? Do you need a business Paypal account?

Send PayPal all the namecheap and Goddady transactions.

AFAIK, it wont matter as Paypal TOS does not cover domains.

This type of problem is the reason I have started listing my names at NameCheap marketplace and NameSilo marketplace. Flat 10% and 7.5% fees, no minimum. You can direct buyers to purchase there directly.

Though NameCheap marketplace is really difficult to use. You have to relist again and again plus the name listing url changes every time you list same domain, Quite impractical, as you have to go about updating this url at all places you are marketing your domain ( like Bodis ). It has been more than a year and still no change. I hope they fix it soon coz their live chat support is good and fees are reasonable.

Haven't sold yet thru NameSilo marketplace but I like their marketplace listing.

 

[alcy]

How do you take service payment? Do you need a business Paypal account?



AFAIK, it wont matter as Paypal TOS does not cover domains.

This type of problem is the reason I have started listing my names at NameCheap marketplace and NameSilo marketplace. Flat 10% and 7.5% fees, no minimum. You can direct buyers to purchase there directly.

Though NameCheap marketplace is really difficult to use. You have to relist again and again plus the name listing url changes every time you list same domain, Quite impractical, as you have to go about updating this url at all places you are marketing your domain ( like Bodis ). It has been more than a year and still no change. I hope they fix it soon coz their live chat support is good and fees are reasonable.

Haven't sold yet thru NameSilo marketplace but I like their marketplace listing.

service is aka family/friends send money payment.
I think they called it service in past. then renamed it. before I think it was just service vs goods payments.
so anyone can use it.
but like I said I am not sure if service payments protect you from chargeback. maybe.

I do not use namesilo market.. and I think namecheap is awful market. but let me understand.. are you saying that you are protected on those from buyer chargebacks if they pay with the Creditcard? how so? do those markets offer some kind of seller protection like escrow that we talked abotu?

 

[DNVantage]

At NameCheap (NC), seller can list the domains they have in their NC account and buyer needs a NC account to receive the domain. Domain is moved automatically from seller's account to buyer's account. NC holds payment for 5 days before depositing sale funds into seller's account.

I have not explicitly checked with NC or NameSilo (NS) about chargeback. My guess is, like other major marketplaces, they must have payment checks in place but please clarify with NC/ NS support .

NC/NS are charging a decent % flat fee on sale! It better not be for just listing domain and automatically moving domain from one account to another. Payment escrow + Domain escrow for just 10%/7.5% is why I prefer NC/NS marketplaces.

Also, my understanding is, from Dec 1, as per new ICANN policy, domains will not be allowed to transfer away for 60 days if whois contact info changes for any reason. This should help the marketplace sales as buyer cannot just move the domain away and do a chargeback immediately.

 

[alcy]

At NameCheap (NC), seller can list the domains they have in their NC account and buyer needs a NC account to receive the domain. Domain is moved automatically from seller's account to buyer's account. NC holds payment for 5 days before depositing sale funds into seller's account.

I have not explicitly checked with NC or NameSilo (NS) about chargeback. My guess is, like other major marketplaces, they must have payment checks in place but please clarify with NC/ NS support .

NC/NS are charging a decent % flat fee on sale! It better not be for just listing domain and automatically moving domain from one account to another. Payment escrow + Domain escrow for just 10%/7.5% is why I prefer NC/NS marketplaces.

Also, my understanding is, from Dec 1, as per new ICANN policy, domains will not be allowed to transfer away for 60 days if whois contact info changes for any reason. This should help the marketplace sales as buyer cannot just move the domain away and do a chargeback immediately.

well like we said here before, the whole point and problem of chargebacks is that they have nothing to do with payment checks namesilo or othes may do before releasing buyer payment to you... chargeback is something buyer has up to 6 months or so, to file with the CC company. and the company will listen to him and let him file. and will not care about namesilo or godaddy checks at all... of course in most causes there will not be chargebacks and everyone happy.. but this thread is not about most cases.

unless, like was again said before, u have big shot escrow services that simply offer you seller protectin.. escrow.com does it.. and apparently ecop too.. like others here said.. and if buyer files chargeback, they'll essentially pay from their own pocket to you for it. so sadly, there is no protection against chargeback with godaddy... and imo even less so with tiny markets like nc or ns.

60 day lock is an old policy. only applies to some whois changhes not all. and yes I agree it helps the chargeback policy, cause registar can rcover your domain (even if you lose money).. however, like i said chargeback deadlines are > than 60 days. cheers.

 

[DNVantage]

chargeback deadlines are > than 60 days. cheers.

You are right, it is not a full solution, but with new policy all registrars will need to disable transfer for 60 days if whois contact info changes, and marketplaces are better at mitigating chargeback issues compared to individuals, so it is a reasonable solution, better than using paypal to do transactions with strangers. The tech for payment check is fairly common now and not too costly for the amount of sales marketplaces do. I would be surprised if NC/NS and all other marketplaces don't have it automated for each of their high transaction sale.

btw, AFAIK, CC providers in all countries do not allow such a wide window for chargeback. In India it is about two statements, though it might vary depending on CC provider, and even than it is an uphill task to ask for a chargeback and now with the mandatory realtime OTP conformation per CC domestic transaction in India, the chargeback issue is almost moot. So knowing which country your buyer is from might help ( if it buyer is verified at paypal )

Anyway, I have never understood why have a 6 month window to allow chargeback! 2 or 3 is more than enough.

 

[alcy]

You are right, it is not a full solution, but with new policy all registrars will need to disable transfer for 60 days if whois contact info changes, and marketplaces are better at mitigating chargeback issues compared to individuals, so it is a reasonable solution, better than using paypal to do transactions with strangers. The tech for payment check is fairly common now and not too costly for the amount of sales marketplaces do. I would be surprised if NC/NS and all other marketplaces don't have it automated for each of their high transaction sale.

btw, AFAIK, CC providers in all countries do not allow such a wide window for chargeback. In India it is about two statements, though it might vary depending on CC provider, and even than it is an uphill task to ask for a chargeback and now with the mandatory realtime OTP conformation per CC domestic transaction in India, the chargeback issue is almost moot. So knowing which country your buyer is from might help ( if it buyer is verified at paypal )

Anyway, I have never understood why have a 6 month window to allow chargeback! 2 or 3 is more than enough.

60 day locks after sale/transfer is not some new policy at all.

I am sure more reputable and larger markets like gd take some extra steps to protect against payment retractions such as chargebacks. much more so than ns or nc imo.. and then possibly escrow.com may go even a step further, given they seem to offer full seller protection for cb, and pay from their pocket if it hapens... so checking more deeply would only be in their own best interest.

its my undersanding that all auction payment processing departments are not created equal. and some are better than others, go some extra steps etc. that being said, paypal has fantastic security measures implemented too... anti fraud etc.. best in the world probably... it's only the biggest payment processor in the world.. but there is only so much anyone can do against cc chargebacks.

like stub said, if you want full protection against chargeback, your only way may well be escrow.com .. or others with full seller protection.. unless we are all missing something about that seller protection here.. perhaps @Jackson Elsegood from escrow can confirm this seller protection works like some here say it does, in case of a CC chargeback from buyer.

thanks.

 

[Name Trader]

@alcy - What you don't believe me?

 

[alcy]

@alcy - What you don't believe me?

why make it personal Stub? who here wants to rely on "belief" when comes to transacting with domains, chargebacks and potentially losing a lot of money.

be glad you will hear it from the mouth of the beast, have it settled forever, and no one will ever come ask you for refund if any of it ever fails.

 

[Jackson Elsegood]

60 day locks after sale/transfer is not some new policy at all.

I am sure more reputable and larger markets like gd take some extra steps to protect against payment retractions such as chargebacks. much more so than ns or nc imo.. and then possibly escrow.com may go even a step further, given they seem to offer full seller protection for cb, and pay from their pocket if it hapens... so checking more deeply would only be in their own best interest.

its my undersanding that all auction payment processing departments are not created equal. and some are better than others, go some extra steps etc. that being said, paypal has fantastic security measures implemented too... anti fraud etc.. best in the world probably... it's only the biggest payment processor in the world.. but there is only so much anyone can do against cc chargebacks.

like stub said, if you want full protection against chargeback, your only way may well be escrow.com .. or others with full seller protection.. unless we are all missing something about that seller protection here.. perhaps @Jackson Elsegood from escrow can confirm this seller protection works like some here say it does, in case of a CC chargeback from buyer.

thanks.

All payments to a seller made through Escrow.com are safe from chargebacks and will not be reversed, even if the buyer tries to claim that they never received the domain (they have 6 months to do that with PayPal and most credit card companies).

 

[cdboard]

thanks for that info.

 

[campout]

The name, phone, email and address are real.

His accent was from India

Well his name does not sound Indian to me at all.

 

[NameFit]

We have to keep in mind that 'paypal' is not an 'escrow' company. They are just fluid easy bank that came out existence because of red tape and rules of banks. They always protect the buyer because they are the ones that are 'paying'. To expect that paypal act like escrow is not fair.

So, there is always a risk when you deal with the buyer directly using Paypal. That is why third party escrow services are there like escrow.com/sedo.com - because they guarantee either you will get the name or money (to both buyer and seller). They charge you for the service and hence can guarantee both sides - the 'purpose' of escrow.

 

[campout]

I'm thinking it's a case where someone gained access to a stranger's Paypal account in which case the chargeback would unfortunately for OP be legitimate.

Should be happy this is a domain that as far as I can tell is not worth anywhere near $850 (or maybe even $8.50?) But it still sucks because you thought that money was yours and now it's likely on its way back out.

One weird thing is the buyer's choice of domain. Why but a 5L Chinese when you could get a pronounceable 4L or something with reseller value on par with the $850?

 

[Name Trader]

why make it personal Stub? who here wants to rely on "belief" when comes to transacting with domains, chargebacks and potentially losing a lot of money.

be glad you will hear it from the mouth of the beast, have it settled forever, and no one will ever come ask you for refund if any of it ever fails.

This wasn't intended to be personal. If it came off that way, it's probably because I omitted a . It wasn't a "belief" statement. I don't usually make those statements here on NP (without stating such). And it has is now been confirmed by Jackson.

 

[alcy]

This wasn't intended to be personal. If it came off that way, it's probably because I omitted a . It wasn't a "belief" statement. I don't usually make those statements here on NP (without stating such). And it has is now been confirmed by Jackson.

i agree! it is due to absence of
I know your top man... but hey.. even top man can have a bad hair day haha.

yes I am glad its confirmed too. now if anyone ever gets payment reversed, they can always ask "whats up", and refer to this thread

cheers

 

[Name Trader]

i agree! it is due to absence of
I know your top man... but hey.. even top man can have a bad hair day haha.

yes I am glad its confirmed too. now if anyone ever gets payment reversed, they can always ask "whats up", and refer to this thread

cheers

I never have a bad hair day because I don't have any hair Why does a top man have the feeling that he's always sitting at the bottom of a pile of s***?

 

[Rhaegarys]

Lesson here is for domain transactions over a 100 odd bucks use escrow.com. but ppal usually can solve the issues
If they won't validate I.d. to 3rd party escrow svcs don't sell.

 

[maya-zir]

Stop, stop, if the card is stolen this is the bank problem.
Or you want to tell if somebody stole my credit card and bought furniture from the store, they can make the take back furniture and give back money?
I dint think so.
And if the payment was made by child or family member, so this is thier family problem.
Ok, this is domain, but it could me food, furniture, car or what ever else.
So, all of these stores have to take thier product back?

 

[HotKey]

An option to avoid chargebacks with PayPal is only allowing payment to your PayPal.me username, and ONLY as a Friends/Family gift.

This is a newer service they've only had in place for a year or so.

 

[maya-zir]

An option to avoid chargebacks with PayPal is only allowing payment to your PayPal.me username, and ONLY as a Friends/Family gift.

This is a newer service they've only had in place for a year or so.

Not right.
This March I paid "as gift" to some guy I knew him before, I paid about 60€ but never recieved any products.
I called to PayPal and told I knew him before and acepted this payment option, and also could show them our WhatsApp chats to see he blocked me and stoped answer my requests about the package.
They said no need any chat proof, just asked him for a track number and I recieved money back in 10 days.