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Are random 4L .com domains worth anything?

Labeled as question in "Short" Domain Discussion started by Jetheat, Sep 9, 2019.

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  1. Jetheat

    Jetheat Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I have an opportunity to buy a random 4L .COM domain.

    It's just a mixture of number and letters which don't mean anything.

    Is there such a huge demand for 4L domains even if they mean nothing, or is the demand ONLY for those that have a pronounceable / brandable word?

    Appreciate the help.

    JH
     
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  2. lock

    lock PremiumNameDomain.com VIP

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    They have value now but depends on how much you pay for them. 4L abbreviations or just short domains are worth more than reg fee. You want something that will sell though don't buy anything you can't sell or not going to use .
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  3. biggie

    biggie Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    there is difference between a 4 Letter .com and a 4 character.com

    domains with numbers and letter combinations, basically have no value above reg fee.

    imo...
     
  4. Jetheat

    Jetheat Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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  5. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes formerly MetBob NameTalent Gold Account VIP Trusted Blogger

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    While I agree that in general a letter / number combination is worth much less, I see them on the NameBio list more than I might think. I disagree with the statement implying they all are simply reg fee value.

    For example, looking only at last 2 years, and just say at LLLN in .com there have been 93 sales with an average price of about $700 on NameBio (not high, but remember mix of lot of domainer sales in database). While some of these have obvious word or acronym worth, like Net2, Row6, Big8, Roy6 all sold for $4k or more in last two years. Some of the others, at least to me, appear more like the random characters in this thread. For example ENX3 sold for $5k, SSC1 for $1.5k (does have technical meaning), HGN8 $999, DZS5 $740 etc.

    It seems that LLNN are significantly more popular than LLLN, and there are 472 sales of them in last two years with average price of $700 (three of them sold for $10k or more). To me a number of the two characters don't have obvious meaning and yet still commanded decent prices.

    I agree with @biggie statement that there is a difference between 4 character and 4 letter for sure. Are they all worth just reg fee? I don't think so.

    I agree with @lock view that they have value, but whether reasonable investments depends on how much you pay for them.

    JMHO

    Bob
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  6. equity78

    equity78 Top Member TLDInvestors.com TheDomains Staff PRO Gold Account VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I think @biggie might have been speaking about wholesale or liquid pricing. I have been writing about LLNN.com for many years now and some do sell for nice prices, especially repeating letter, repeating number with LL ending in 88 and 99 being the most popular. starting with HG,CP,QP being highly touted starting letters. These are mostly a Chinese phenomenon with few other buyers.

    There are many that drop daily and many that get no action here, example, I was tired of a name I owned that got a bit of traffic, AA92.com I saw AA88 and AA99 going for big $$$ and they are far superior to my AA92.com. I started an auction here while those auctions were going on GoDaddy. provided comps, etc... starting the auction at $1 and got no bids, as I always do if no bids for 1 hour, close and delete the auction listing.

    I placed it for sale on Sedo at $99 and got a sale a couple weeks later, nettted $80. Which imo would have been more than I would have gotten here.

    I own a couple still and if I put them up for sale here I think I would get little to no action here, so I get what @biggie is saying, a 4L.com here is going to get some action, not end user pricing but it's always going to get bids and offers.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  7. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes formerly MetBob NameTalent Gold Account VIP Trusted Blogger

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    If you are talking sales to other domainers, I agree @equity78 that most would command essentially nothing (the same applies to lots of other types of domains, of course). I had not read in the OP post that @Jetheat was meaning for sale to other domainers, but I guess the OP can clarify if that was the meaning.

    I have only four letter number combinations in almost 500 names in my portfolio, so it is not that I am enthusiastic on them. It is not something I routinely look for, and would not personally buy something random in either pure letters or mixed unless a huge deal. Interestingly I just posted a sale of a mixed .org this morning in report completed sales here.

    As with any potential acquisition, I would be very hesitant about any acquisition for which one has no idea of end use. If it was LLNN and you can come up with a bunch of acronym applications for the LL I would consider it at the right price, and the background @equity78 provides on more desired numbers is useful intelligence to further determine worth. For example if the letters were CC that to me could mean credit card, climate change, casino coin, etc. so I would view that as desired (also memorable since repeated_ whereas if the letters are ZQ the possibilities are less obvious to me.

    Bob
     
  8. Ategy.com

    Ategy.com NameCult.com Gold Account VIP

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    NEVER BUY DOMAINS YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND !!!

    Your hesitation about these domains is spot on and fully justified.

    Just ask yourself .. who is going to buy that domain? Who will be able to use that domain?

    The answer for RANDOM 4C is that they are totally useless and garbage domains.

    Sure there might be a very rare few that could be worth a bit in the Chinese market, but unless you know Chinese Pinyin codes and Chinese numeric culture, and even more specifically how to even sell them, then STAY AWAY!

    99.99% of them have no value beyond their liquid value.

    As for liquid value .. I never understood domainers who trade in these .. it's more commodity trading than it is domaining. Sure if you think the entire market will go up for a particular sub-set of domains, then it's something you might want to invest in .. but it's not really domaining .. and the liquid market very dangerous at the lower levels considering how much renewals bite into potential profits.

    (4C = 4 character = mix of letters/numbers, otherwise it would be 4N = 4 number or 4L = 4 letter)

    The few sales you see relative to the large number of actual 4C domains is mostly those with specific Chinese meaning and/or those with traffic .. so do NOT look at those sales .. do NOT even consider them.

    *IF* there is meaning to the domain, then definitely consider it based on the other merits of potential value .. but just the simple fact it's a 4C attributes virtually zero extra value beyond those other attributes.

    Oh yeah .. and before I forget .. lol ...

    NEVER BUY DOMAINS YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND !!! ;)
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  9. biggie

    biggie Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I was just responding to his question about buying "random" 4 L .com domains
    and pointed out the differences in his perspective of them.

    per the examples you pointed out, they would not be considered as "random" in that category, or in the eye of buyers looking for such patterns.

    that's why I said, basically, they have no value above reg fee.

    but it's good you went deeper

    imo...
     
  10. equity78

    equity78 Top Member TLDInvestors.com TheDomains Staff PRO Gold Account VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Oh I agree Bob I didn't think they mentioned about selling to other domainers, I thought they figured there was built in intrinsic value in any LLNN.
     
  11. Jetheat

    Jetheat Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    What about random four letters? Does that hold intrinsic value at all above the reg fee?

    Something like jhgf.com

    JH
     
  12. Daniel Owens

    Daniel Owens Upgraded Member Gold Account VIP

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    NNLL
    or LLLN
    often have value, it's all about the sequence and also 4 and 0 are bad. The letters should not be vowels.
     
  13. Ategy.com

    Ategy.com NameCult.com Gold Account VIP

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    At the risk of repeating myself .. lol:

    NEVER BUY DOMAINS YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND !!!

    Seriously .. who are you going to sell a domain with random characters or letters to?

    Sure, 2L and 3L are super hot .. but that's because as short domains, the number of companies who use those acronyms are SIGNIFICANTLY higher.

    Sure 4L also have minimal liquid value .. but are you going to waste your time buying a domain for $50 to resell at $57? If you're buying/selling hundreds of such domains then maybe .. but even then the risk is just as high that the liquid value will go down .. plus you also need to factor in renewals and the fact it's a huge pain in the butt!

    At 4L the number of companies that can use such domains is definitely still there .. but vastly reduced compared to 3L domains.

    In this case the answer is that even 4L domains are indeed also garbage (not nearly as bad as 4C, but still bad) unless you can actually buy them well below liquid value only to resell them for a few dollars more. UNLESS ...

    Unless the 4 letters in question actually mean or represent something. Google is a domainer's best friend .. go search to see if there are companies that use those specific letters .. if you find a few, then what domains are they currently using .. will the 4L.com be an upgrade or a downgrade? Do the companies make money and will have money to spend for a domain?

    An extra tip is that 4L's ending in C tend to be a little more in demand because the C can stand for Corp .. so effectively all you'd need is to look for a company that has a 3 letter acronym where the extra C on the end makes sense.

    Also .. 4L's with the 3rd letter being an O might have better chances as the O could stand for "of".

    I personally do NOT like most 4L domains unless there's a pattern in them or something phonetically pleasing about them .. basically something that makes them more memorable than just 4 random letters. Despite what people think .. in general nobody remembers 4L domains unless there's something special about them or some extra motivation .. that fact to me tells me these domains are hard to sell unless you found several results on Google.

    All that said .. I'll repeat .. lol ...
    NEVER BUY DOMAINS YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND !!!
     
  14. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes formerly MetBob NameTalent Gold Account VIP Trusted Blogger

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    Can I say I 100% agree with @Ategy.com to never buy any domain you do not understand. I would add though that randomness is in the eye of the beholder sometimes. Many of the $600+ mixed mode sales I see to me seem like random collections of letters. But just because I do not see a pattern, does not mean there is not one. In particular, it appears some of the ones in end use and that sold for good amounts went to Chinese market, so keep in mind the caution Ategy gives.
    I would repeat again what I said earlier and is the key point I think.
    If you see realistic end-use possibilities that are not random, it may make sense at right price. If they are random to you, you probably should stick away from any domain.

    I think there is also some caution here though to not be too regionally biased in our view. Clearly certain regions like numbers and mixed much more than the US, and other regions like hyphens. Don't invest for those markets if you don't genuinely understand them, but also accept that each of us bring our own biases to the discussion.

    Bob

    PS Can someone tell me why JS is so attractive in LLNN names? It has sold about 10 times with good average price of almost $4000 but to me JS seems random. It must have a meaning I do not see.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  15. Kassey Lee

    Kassey Lee 域名世界 VIP

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    Essence of domain investing! THANK YOU.
     
  16. Super-Annuation

    Super-Annuation Restricted Gold Account

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    OPNZ to me is a pronouncable, so I bought it. End users in mind.

    A random 4L like PXJL would not appeal to me at all.

    I'd rather watch an auction. It's all end users. Try to never think like "domainers are buying them, so if no end user, it's still something I can resell to the community and get my money back."

    I hope this helps.
     
  17. BradWilson

    BradWilson Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    I can answer that... JS is JavaScript and as a programmer I'd snag it in a heartbeat :)

    Or Just Saying ha
     
  18. Kassey Lee

    Kassey Lee 域名世界 VIP

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    What is random or not random? AGSX.com was sold recently for 12,061 yuan. AGSX can be an acronym for Pinyin words A Ge Shang Xue (阿哥上学=elder brother goes to school), which is suitable for application in the educational field. 4L demains have genuine demand from corporate users in China. Example is YLWL.cn for You Long Wang Luo (游龙网络), #69 on 2018 Top 100 Chinese Internet Companies list.
     
  19. Josytal

    Josytal Top Member VIP

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    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
  20. handpicked

    handpicked Established Member

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    Nice info...thanks all for the valuable insight.. my 2 cents.. I bought FOF7 and developed it into 'Facts Of Football 7 Days a Week' but couldn't sell it.. years later I dropped it ... that was many years ago... it still stays there untouched/unregistered.
     
  21. manpreet

    manpreet Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Yes they can be still a good investment for the future. Just note, the prices of random 4L have fallen real low these days, so spend wisely.
     
  22. Ostrados

    Ostrados Entrepreneur VIP

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    According to my experience:
    • random LLLL.com domains have minimum value of $80 and can easily sell for up to $100. But If the name is premium it can sell at more than that (research about western premium and Chinese premium domains)
    • Semi-pronounceable 4Ls can sell above $150, and pronounceable ones can easily sell at more than that. And again if the letters are premium the domain can sell at higher price.
    • Also you have CVCV domains which worth at lease $1k-$2k regardless of the letters combinations.
    • Regarding 4C domains the value depends on the name, and can be anywhere from 0 to xxx. I would avoid them unless I find a very special domain (ex: repetitive chars pattern like B999 or BB99.. etc).

    Please note that I am talking here about wholesale prices not end user prices.

    In general 4L & 4C domains are tricky and you need to do a lot of research before you start buying them.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  23. manpreet

    manpreet Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I agree with your suggestions on the 4L categories, thanks for sharing. By the way, in which category would you define Nium.com which recently sold here for $90,000 ?
     
  24. Ostrados

    Ostrados Entrepreneur VIP

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    Pronounceable 4L. These types of domains are brandable names and so they have a chance to sell at high price if a new brand wants the name so badly. I think 90k was too high for this domain though.
     
  25. biggie

    biggie Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    here are a few random, 4 char .com that are available to register
    feel free to grab and hold for the future

    u6p2.com
    u7p2.com
    u7p3.com
    u7p1.com
    u7p0.com
    e7p0.com
    e6p0.com


    imo….
     

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