question Are random 4L .com domains worth anything?

[Jetheat]

I have an opportunity to buy a random 4L .COM domain.

It's just a mixture of number and letters which don't mean anything.

Is there such a huge demand for 4L domains even if they mean nothing, or is the demand ONLY for those that have a pronounceable / brandable word?

Appreciate the help.

JH

 

[Bob Hawkes]

domains with numbers and letter combinations, basically have no value above reg fee.

While I agree that in general a letter / number combination is worth much less, I see them on the NameBio list more than I might think. I disagree with the statement implying they all are simply reg fee value.

For example, looking only at last 2 years, and just say at LLLN in .com there have been 93 sales with an average price of about $700 on NameBio (not high, but remember mix of lot of domainer sales in database). While some of these have obvious word or acronym worth, like Net2, Row6, Big8, Roy6 all sold for $4k or more in last two years. Some of the others, at least to me, appear more like the random characters in this thread. For example ENX3 sold for $5k, SSC1 for $1.5k (does have technical meaning), HGN8 $999, DZS5 $740 etc.

It seems that LLNN are significantly more popular than LLLN, and there are 472 sales of them in last two years with average price of $700 (three of them sold for $10k or more). To me a number of the two characters don't have obvious meaning and yet still commanded decent prices.

I agree with @biggie statement that there is a difference between 4 character and 4 letter for sure. Are they all worth just reg fee? I don't think so.

I agree with @lock view that they have value, but whether reasonable investments depends on how much you pay for them.

JMHO

Bob

 

[biggie]

I have an opportunity to buy a random 4L .COM domain.

It's just a mixture of number and letters which don't mean anything.

there is difference between a 4 Letter .com and a 4 character.com

domains with numbers and letter combinations, basically have no value above reg fee.

imo...

 

[Ategy]

NEVER BUY DOMAINS YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND !!!

Your hesitation about these domains is spot on and fully justified.

Just ask yourself .. who is going to buy that domain? Who will be able to use that domain?

The answer for RANDOM 4C is that they are totally useless and garbage domains.

Sure there might be a very rare few that could be worth a bit in the Chinese market, but unless you know Chinese Pinyin codes and Chinese numeric culture, and even more specifically how to even sell them, then STAY AWAY!

99.99% of them have no value beyond their liquid value.

As for liquid value .. I never understood domainers who trade in these .. it's more commodity trading than it is domaining. Sure if you think the entire market will go up for a particular sub-set of domains, then it's something you might want to invest in .. but it's not really domaining .. and the liquid market very dangerous at the lower levels considering how much renewals bite into potential profits.

(4C = 4 character = mix of letters/numbers, otherwise it would be 4N = 4 number or 4L = 4 letter)

The few sales you see relative to the large number of actual 4C domains is mostly those with specific Chinese meaning and/or those with traffic .. so do NOT look at those sales .. do NOT even consider them.

*IF* there is meaning to the domain, then definitely consider it based on the other merits of potential value .. but just the simple fact it's a 4C attributes virtually zero extra value beyond those other attributes.

Oh yeah .. and before I forget .. lol ...

NEVER BUY DOMAINS YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND !!!

 

[equity78]

While I agree that in general a letter / number combination is worth much less, I see them on the NameBio list more than I might think. I disagree with the statement implying they all are simply reg fee value.

For example, looking only at last 2 years, and just say at LLLN in .com there have been 93 sales with an average price of about $700 on NameBio (not high, but remember mix of lot of domainer sales in database). While some of these have obvious word or acronym worth, like Net2, Row6, Big8, Roy6 all sold for $4k or more in last two years. Some of the others, at least to me, appear more like the random characters in this thread. For example ENX3 sold for $5k, SSC1 for $1.5k (does have technical meaning), HGN8 $999, DZS5 $740 etc.

It seems that LLNN are significantly more popular than LLLN, and there are 472 sales of them in last two years with average price of $700 (three of them sold for $10k or more). To me a number of the two characters don't have obvious meaning and yet still commanded decent prices.

I agree with @biggie statement that there is a difference between 4 character and 4 letter for sure. Are they all worth just reg fee? I don't think so.

JMHO

Bob

I think @biggie might have been speaking about wholesale or liquid pricing. I have been writing about LLNN.com for many years now and some do sell for nice prices, especially repeating letter, repeating number with LL ending in 88 and 99 being the most popular. starting with HG,CP,QP being highly touted starting letters. These are mostly a Chinese phenomenon with few other buyers.

There are many that drop daily and many that get no action here, example, I was tired of a name I owned that got a bit of traffic, AA92.com I saw AA88 and AA99 going for big $$$ and they are far superior to my AA92.com. I started an auction here while those auctions were going on GoDaddy. provided comps, etc... starting the auction at $1 and got no bids, as I always do if no bids for 1 hour, close and delete the auction listing.

I placed it for sale on Sedo at $99 and got a sale a couple weeks later, nettted $80. Which imo would have been more than I would have gotten here.

I own a couple still and if I put them up for sale here I think I would get little to no action here, so I get what @biggie is saying, a 4L.com here is going to get some action, not end user pricing but it's always going to get bids and offers.

 

[biggie]

I think @biggie might have been speaking about wholesale or liquid pricing. I have been writing about LLNN.com for many years now and some do sell for nice prices, especially repeating letter, repeating number

I was just responding to his question about buying "random" 4 L .com domains
and pointed out the differences in his perspective of them.

per the examples you pointed out, they would not be considered as "random" in that category, or in the eye of buyers looking for such patterns.

that's why I said, basically, they have no value above reg fee.

but it's good you went deeper

imo...

 

[Kassey Lee]

What is random or not random? AGSX.com was sold recently for 12,061 yuan. AGSX can be an acronym for Pinyin words A Ge Shang Xue (阿哥上学=elder brother goes to school), which is suitable for application in the educational field. 4L demains have genuine demand from corporate users in China. Example is YLWL.cn for You Long Wang Luo (游龙网络), #69 on 2018 Top 100 Chinese Internet Companies list.

 

[lock]

They have value now but depends on how much you pay for them. 4L abbreviations or just short domains are worth more than reg fee. You want something that will sell though don't buy anything you can't sell or not going to use .

 

[Ategy]

What about random four letters? Does that hold intrinsic value at all above the reg fee? Something like jhgf.com

At the risk of repeating myself .. lol:

NEVER BUY DOMAINS YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND !!!

Seriously .. who are you going to sell a domain with random characters or letters to?

Sure, 2L and 3L are super hot .. but that's because as short domains, the number of companies who use those acronyms are SIGNIFICANTLY higher.

Sure 4L also have minimal liquid value .. but are you going to waste your time buying a domain for $50 to resell at $57? If you're buying/selling hundreds of such domains then maybe .. but even then the risk is just as high that the liquid value will go down .. plus you also need to factor in renewals and the fact it's a huge pain in the butt!

At 4L the number of companies that can use such domains is definitely still there .. but vastly reduced compared to 3L domains.

In this case the answer is that even 4L domains are indeed also garbage (not nearly as bad as 4C, but still bad) unless you can actually buy them well below liquid value only to resell them for a few dollars more. UNLESS ...

Unless the 4 letters in question actually mean or represent something. Google is a domainer's best friend .. go search to see if there are companies that use those specific letters .. if you find a few, then what domains are they currently using .. will the 4L.com be an upgrade or a downgrade? Do the companies make money and will have money to spend for a domain?

An extra tip is that 4L's ending in C tend to be a little more in demand because the C can stand for Corp .. so effectively all you'd need is to look for a company that has a 3 letter acronym where the extra C on the end makes sense.

Also .. 4L's with the 3rd letter being an O might have better chances as the O could stand for "of".

I personally do NOT like most 4L domains unless there's a pattern in them or something phonetically pleasing about them .. basically something that makes them more memorable than just 4 random letters. Despite what people think .. in general nobody remembers 4L domains unless there's something special about them or some extra motivation .. that fact to me tells me these domains are hard to sell unless you found several results on Google.

All that said .. I'll repeat .. lol ...
NEVER BUY DOMAINS YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND !!!

 

[Kassey Lee]

NEVER BUY DOMAINS YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND !!!

Essence of domain investing! THANK YOU.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

If you are talking sales to other domainers, I agree @equity78 that most would command essentially nothing (the same applies to lots of other types of domains, of course). I had not read in the OP post that @Jetheat was meaning for sale to other domainers, but I guess the OP can clarify if that was the meaning.

I have only four letter number combinations in almost 500 names in my portfolio, so it is not that I am enthusiastic on them. It is not something I routinely look for, and would not personally buy something random in either pure letters or mixed unless a huge deal. Interestingly I just posted a sale of a mixed .org this morning in report completed sales here.

As with any potential acquisition, I would be very hesitant about any acquisition for which one has no idea of end use. If it was LLNN and you can come up with a bunch of acronym applications for the LL I would consider it at the right price, and the background @equity78 provides on more desired numbers is useful intelligence to further determine worth. For example if the letters were CC that to me could mean credit card, climate change, casino coin, etc. so I would view that as desired (also memorable since repeated_ whereas if the letters are ZQ the possibilities are less obvious to me.

Bob

 

[Daniel Owens]

NNLL
or LLLN
often have value, it's all about the sequence and also 4 and 0 are bad. The letters should not be vowels.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Can I say I 100% agree with @Ategy.com to never buy any domain you do not understand. I would add though that randomness is in the eye of the beholder sometimes. Many of the $600+ mixed mode sales I see to me seem like random collections of letters. But just because I do not see a pattern, does not mean there is not one. In particular, it appears some of the ones in end use and that sold for good amounts went to Chinese market, so keep in mind the caution Ategy gives.

Sure there might be a very rare few that could be worth a bit in the Chinese market, but unless you know Chinese Pinyin codes and Chinese numeric culture, and even more specifically how to even sell them, then STAY AWAY!

I would repeat again what I said earlier and is the key point I think.

As with any potential acquisition, I would be very hesitant about any acquisition for which one has no idea of end use.

If you see realistic end-use possibilities that are not random, it may make sense at right price. If they are random to you, you probably should stick away from any domain.

I think there is also some caution here though to not be too regionally biased in our view. Clearly certain regions like numbers and mixed much more than the US, and other regions like hyphens. Don't invest for those markets if you don't genuinely understand them, but also accept that each of us bring our own biases to the discussion.

Bob

PS Can someone tell me why JS is so attractive in LLNN names? It has sold about 10 times with good average price of almost $4000 but to me JS seems random. It must have a meaning I do not see.

 

[Ostrados]

According to my experience:

• random LLLL.com domains have minimum value of $80 and can easily sell for up to $100. But If the name is premium it can sell at more than that (research about western premium and Chinese premium domains)
• Semi-pronounceable 4Ls can sell above $150, and pronounceable ones can easily sell at more than that. And again if the letters are premium the domain can sell at higher price.
• Also you have CVCV domains which worth at lease $1k-$2k regardless of the letters combinations.
• Regarding 4C domains the value depends on the name, and can be anywhere from 0 to xxx. I would avoid them unless I find a very special domain (ex: repetitive chars pattern like B999 or BB99.. etc).

Please note that I am talking here about wholesale prices not end user prices.

In general 4L & 4C domains are tricky and you need to do a lot of research before you start buying them.

 

[biggie]

here are a few random, 4 char .com that are available to register
feel free to grab and hold for the future

u6p2.com
u7p2.com
u7p3.com
u7p1.com
u7p0.com
e7p0.com
e6p0.com


imo….

 

[BrandPlease]

Just need to be careful when you are thinking in very general terms. Value, conclude, & random are very dangerous words when used so generally. I wouldn't say run out and get random 4l just because it's .com - yeah there is a bit of liquidity - but you could start much easier.... That said - check out this post on 4L (and short names): Short Domain Buyer handbook.

 

[MapleDots]

domains with numbers and letter combinations, basically have no value above reg fee.

There are some exception, for instance when something looks good together and can be used as a brandable.

For instance

K1D.com (one of mine but a 3 letter)

Can stand for #1 Kid

Apply that to a four letter number combination that could somehow be used as a brandable or similar.

example 9HOL

As biggie said, a lot of them are worthless but if you hunt you can find the odd gem.

 

[Recons.Com]

I agree with the sentiment that you have to understand why the number is meaningful not just in 4C.com but in any domain.

Here are some from my portfolio and why I liked them:

12AY/com - means 12 months in Turkic languages, including in Turkish
4-P/com - the famous 4 Ps of marketing
OnThe9/com - On the 9th Cloud
180Recovery/com - Recovery basically often means making complete change of direction, which is 180 degree turn.
21Living/com - Living in 21st century. Will be relevant for next 80+ years ))
32Store/com - in reference to 32 teeth, dental products
4EA/com plenty of meanings to put behind
UK9/com - UK plus number, or u+Canine, dog related
4XOL/com and 4XUS/com - Forex Online or Forex US
5KLoans/com - 5K or $5000 is a popular amount to ask for for a personal loan. Hence plenty of end users.


Just make sure, your total number domains are not more than 1-2% of your total portfolio, as they are definitely higher risk.

 

[tinabacot]

Can I say I 100% agree with @Ategy.com to never buy any domain you do not understand. I would add though that randomness is in the eye of the beholder sometimes. Many of the $600+ mixed mode sales I see to me seem like random collections of letters. But just because I do not see a pattern, does not mean there is not one. In particular, it appears some of the ones in end use and that sold for good amounts went to Chinese market, so keep in mind the caution Ategy gives.

I would repeat again what I said earlier and is the key point I think.
If you see realistic end-use possibilities that are not random, it may make sense at right price. If they are random to you, you probably should stick away from any domain.

I think there is also some caution here though to not be too regionally biased in our view. Clearly certain regions like numbers and mixed much more than the US, and other regions like hyphens. Don't invest for those markets if you don't genuinely understand them, but also accept that each of us bring our own biases to the discussion.

Bob

PS Can someone tell me why JS is so attractive in LLNN names? It has sold about 10 times with good average price of almost $4000 but to me JS seems random. It must have a meaning I do not see.

I was wondering if anyone was going to comment on the Chinese aspect of these combinations. We can't have tunnel-vision when valuating in the U.S. We are not the only ones who visit websites. There is a world out there larger than us and they utilize the web as well. While other countries may have their own extensions, they do use the irreplaceable .com.
My opinion: how many 4L, 4N, or a combination of either can we come up with? While it may not make "sense" to us in our own world, someone may see what we do not. I do not think we can value domains based on historical data alone. While it is a benchmark and measurement tool, we need to factor in "change." The world is changing & always has been progressive-thus we have gone from horse & buggies to autos to who knows what's next...ask Elon.
If you see a domain that has 4 of anything only, I recommend buying it. There are hard to acquire and desireable to someone. Especially if there is a root word, acronym or something you see that can be marketable. Think of other countries, research terms, near terms, and try to make sense of what it all means or could mean. You could have an angle on something big.
While not a good comparable "apples to apples," etsy is a prime example of a nonsense type "word" or acronym that I don't think has a meaning. There is former Etsy employee who claims that the name was a resultant of logarithm searches and combinations. Thus, the company name was founded based upon value of combinations of 4 letters of consonants & vowels.

Now the very strongly branded "Etsy" has a meaning that we associate a prime shopping experience with by that combination that 15 years ago was garbled to our ears. Nike is synonymous with shoes, much like etsy has succeeded in becoming synonymous with online shopping. many use to make their livings & has become a go-to for unique products.

Thank goodness we cannot measure everything, or we would repeat ourselves over and over in history and extinguish change & progress.

Just like the wise Bob here has pointed out the Chinese language, I would have a different recommendation for domain investors. The best advice I have ever heard about the topic of how much any domain is correctly answered with, "whatever someone is willing to pay."

How much would you pay for etsy? How much would you pay for evye? I just made that last one up. I don't know...neither does anyone truly. The future will hold the answer. I have a practice of thinking forward.

If I follow the current lessons in domain investing, I will pay a lot for many highly sought and fought over domains. That's stressful and no fun. I instead, look at the domain as a visionary. Yes, a visionary. Whatever value is placed upon my idea today could be less than $100. In 5 years, that could be a million-dollar site.

I have one for example I bought from godaddy after it expired. I looked at it and thought, "hmmm I see something." I wasn't really sure what I saw. I have not paid it much attention until last month. I have been reviewing my portfolio and this is the only domain I have at godaddy and nearly one hundred I own.

As I remembered my one little godaddy domain to review, I looked again, and it hit me. Now, I know why I bought it. I see it more clearly now. I created a logo, tagline, and it was so easy to see it! It was, in fact, too easy!

I looked and began singing, " It's so easy, it's so easy, yeahhh so doggone easy, to fall in love, it's so easy to fall in love...
You are singing too, aren't you? I was reviewing my domain tooesy.com
I have it for sale. I don't have a price and I will listen to offers. It's tooesy to fall in love, it's too esy to fall in love with tooesy.com.

While we base good decisions on the available historical data as that is what is available, let us open our minds instead of researching facts, tidbits, email blasts, and canned information. There is always a better cat house (notice I am tired of the "mouse-trap" example), and I want to find that. I don't want to fight over what everyone else "thinks" is hot and miss the opportunities of tomorrow.

One of the richest men I ever personally met gave me the best advice: Be a visionary. Visionaries become wealthy. Practitioners make a living. That is my copyrighted quote.
I took parts of his advice and coined my own quote, copyrighted quote by Tina Bacot:

"Practitioners make a living, but Visionaries become wealthy."

Cheers! TB.

 

[equity78]

If you are talking sales to other domainers, I agree @equity78 that most would command essentially nothing (the same applies to lots of other types of domains, of course). I had not read in the OP post that @Jetheat was meaning for sale to other domainers, but I guess the OP can clarify if that was the meaning.

I have only four letter number combinations in almost 500 names in my portfolio, so it is not that I am enthusiastic on them. It is not something I routinely look for, and would not personally buy something random in either pure letters or mixed unless a huge deal. Interestingly I just posted a sale of a mixed .org this morning in report completed sales here.

As with any potential acquisition, I would be very hesitant about any acquisition for which one has no idea of end use. If it was LLNN and you can come up with a bunch of acronym applications for the LL I would consider it at the right price, and the background @equity78 provides on more desired numbers is useful intelligence to further determine worth. For example if the letters were CC that to me could mean credit card, climate change, casino coin, etc. so I would view that as desired (also memorable since repeated_ whereas if the letters are ZQ the possibilities are less obvious to me.

Bob

Oh I agree Bob I didn't think they mentioned about selling to other domainers, I thought they figured there was built in intrinsic value in any LLNN.

 

[BradWilson]

PS Can someone tell me why JS is so attractive in LLNN names? It has sold about 10 times with good average price of almost $4000 but to me JS seems random. It must have a meaning I do not see.

I can answer that... JS is JavaScript and as a programmer I'd snag it in a heartbeat

Or Just Saying ha

 

[handpicked]

Nice info...thanks all for the valuable insight.. my 2 cents.. I bought FOF7 and developed it into 'Facts Of Football 7 Days a Week' but couldn't sell it.. years later I dropped it ... that was many years ago... it still stays there untouched/unregistered.

 

[Ostrados]

I agree with your suggestions on the 4L categories, thanks for sharing. By the way, in which category would you define Nium.com which recently sold here for $90,000 ?

Pronounceable 4L. These types of domains are brandable names and so they have a chance to sell at high price if a new brand wants the name so badly. I think 90k was too high for this domain though.

 

[poweredbyme]

PS Can someone tell me why JS is so attractive in LLNN names? It has sold about 10 times with good average price of almost $4000 but to me JS seems random. It must have a meaning I do not see.

JS is javascript.
Javascript file names end with dot js.
Click CTRL + U on your browser while reading this post. Then click CTRL + F in the new window and search for ".js" or only "js". You will see how many javascript files this page has. If you do the same on other websites, you will see almost all websites you will visit have at least 1 javascript file.

 

[Jetheat]

Thanks, that makes sense.