Francois Carrillo calls out Brandroot

[Joseph Green]

April 18th, 2016, Francois wrote:

Saturday I bought Qoni.com at Brandroot.com for $2,290

As a side note, Qoni.com was listed with a Buy-It-Now price of only $325 in 2007.


April 20th, 2016, Francois wrote:

Subject:

I did not get QONI.com​

Message:

In the last newsletter I told how I recently bought QONI.com at Brandroot.com...

Things did not go the way I expected:
I was so happy with the purchase that in the feedback box after the sale, I explained with great detail why and how I landed in this site and bought this domain, plus I signed up for their newsletter to get informed of new listings.
But after the Paypal payment the only thing I received was an automatic email template with the logo of the purchased domain (ouch!).
After more than 2 days without any news, I was a bit disappointed, so I posted a message in the landing page of the domain hoping to reach the owner for prepare the push of the domain.
The owner response was a bad surprise:
He was not aware of this sale because he never listed the domain at Brandroot.com and as if it wasn't enough, the domain was absolutely *not for sale* at the price I purchased it.
As Brandroot.com seems to continue silent, I decided to place a Paypal dispute to get my money back asap, and yes I got it back.
But after few days still not a single email to apologize for the failed sale or at minimum an explanation of what happened... I guess this is how things works at Brandroot.com.
It's a fact, people rarely unlist names from marketplaces once sold. And it looks that maybe that is what happened here.There is always the case where the owner changed his mind and or no longer wants to sell or ask for more. This is where the help of the marketplace is expected to help clarify the situation and eventually invite the owner (if it's the lister) to honor a sale.​

I figured @Brandroot would like a chance to reply to this issue.

Has anyone else had a similar experience with Brandroot?

 

[silentg]

It doesn't look good for brandroot. IMO it's too late for them to do anything.

 

[hookbox]

If Francois didn't buy it then why is it forwarded to his landing page at Catchy.com which is owned by Francois?

 

[hookbox]

Listed for sale in his marketplace.

 

[Joseph Green]

If Francois didn't buy it then why is it forwarded to his landing page at Catchy.com

Francois said, "the owner of QONI.com decided to list his nice domain at Catchy.com"

 

[loredan]

Not sure if Brandroot is the main problem here. They obviously owe an explanation/apology to Francois (not to Namepros) but usually these things settle in private not on public forums. Surprised to see Francois shared this story tbh ...

The problem is with the muppets who submit domains, got approved and then sell the names on other platforms or via private deals without asking for removal. Not sure how BR or BB or any other marketplace can check every single domain at any time in order to prevent these things.

 

[hookbox]

March 8, 2016 was the last screenshot of this name and it's clearly not a Brandroot landing page. So whatever did happen took place within the last month.

 

[Joseph Green]

usually these things settle in private not on public forums. Surprised to see Francois shared this story tbh ...

Since it was shared publicly in his newsletter, where Brandroot is unable to respond, this thread can provide both sides of the story and more details on the situation.

 

[hookbox]

Personally I think throwing Brandroot under the bus without them even giving an explanation first is ridiculous. Give the guy a chance to respond before going on a public forum and bashing his company when there could be a very good explanation for what may have occurred.

 

[Coral Cove]

If I must entertain such a vacuous letter I'll attempt to do so as pleasantly as possible. It's a shame I have to waste my time for this.

Quick background, Francois has never really been thrilled with me. Why?

1. I removed the "Domaining Recommends This Site" badge from Brandroot a long time ago. Mostly because of it's very unappealing quality, but also because it's pointless and means nothing.
2. I refused to put it back up when he asked me to
3. I turned down an offer from him to share my blog feed on his website
4. I turned down (mostly ignored) his attempts to sell me his domain, Catchy.com

Have you sold any domains to Francois? I have, and I can tell you, he will NOT buy unless he knows he is getting a great bargain. So the first question I pose Francois is:

Why did you buy without first making an offer to Brandroot? I think the answer will be clear in a second.

Here are the blatant lies in Francois' letter to you all:

1. "After more than 2 days without any news..." - From start to finish this lasted 35 hours and 32 minutes. He purchased the domain after 12:00am on Sunday (Brandroot works very little on Sunday's) and he was refunded before noon the next day (Monday).
2. "so I posted a message in the landing page of the domain..." - This is impossible. Once a domain is sold there is no way to submit a message from that landing page. However we did receive his 12-word message 1 hour before he disputed the purchase at PayPal.
3. "The owner response was a bad surprise:" - We never responded. Francois, please provide a shred of evidence that we responded to your message. We hardly had the opportunity.
4. "He was not aware of this sale..." - Of course we were aware of a $2k+ sale. Once we received the purchase we began investigating why the domain was still listed. The seller was no longer the owner. We had to get all information before reaching out to the buyer. We also attempted to buy the domain from the current owner so we could complete the purchase. At this point, money was no object; we didn't want an unsatisfied customer.
5. "But after few days still not a single email to apologize for the failed sale or at minimum an explanation of what happened" - See the attached refund message that we sent Francois on PayPal. We apologized twice actually and explained the situation.

As I said, I find it exceedingly odd that Francois, a seasoned domainer, bought this domain without first making an offer. ESPECIALLY, since he tells you all in his first newsletter, "In 2014 my buddy Dejan Lesicar proposed me the domain for $xxx, it looks I politely declined." So he admits declining to purchase this 4-letter name for mere hundreds, but he turns around and buys the same name for thousands at Brandroot?? Strange, to say the least.

And of course he then ends his nefarious newsletter with this incriminating plug for his own marketplace:

"I invite you (again) to list your short dot com brands at Catchy.com with a nice logo and benefit of the very targeted traffic this site receives.
I trust this marketplace to exclusively sell my own catchy names for big prices, so why not you?"

My theory: Francois knew well that Brandroot didn't have the authority to sell this name, since "his friend" Dejan was the former owner. He purchased out of spite. He saw an opportunity to point out a Brandroot mistake and then signed up for our newsletter, sent us a quick message and formulated his plan to provoke and insult Brandroot, all as an act of retaliation. This also has to be the very first time a buyer has ever reached out to a seller/owner AFTER a purchase, especially in such a short period of time. What were you worried about Francois? Have I once not sent you a domain you've purchased?

I have already written Francois personally about this issue on LinkedIn. We have been connected and in communication off and on through the years. It's unfortunate he decided to stoop so low and exact retribution in such a childish way. I've received several emails from my sellers, forwarding these silly newsletters to me.

I'll end by actually thanking Francois, as I did personally to him, for the free publicity. Looks like one of his newsletter recipients found a $16k 4-letter domain at Brandroot and has expressed interest in purchasing tomorrow. Stay tuned.

@Joseph Green thanks for the post. Glad we had an opportunity to clear this up a little.

 

[Coral Cove]

Has anyone else had a similar experience with Brandroot?

Do you know of any other domainer who has purchased a domain at full price from a brandable domain platform? To answer your questions, no, nobody has had a smilier experience with Brandroot because domainers aren't our buyers.

 

[AEProgram]

We need a new TV show, Desperate Domainers of Silicon Valley

This BS of people not removing a name from a platform after they sold it elsewhere happens all the time. It creates a major headache. There is only so much a platform can do to prevent this. I guess they can create a script that tracks whois changes and temporarily removes any domain with a major whois change until the seller confirms it is still for sale. Then again, domain privacy names would be hard to detect sometimes and this is not too common of a problem but when it does happen it creates a big headache.

A while back I saw a domain listed for sale on some platform that was deleted and available again to register by just anyone.

 

[kandyan]

Thanks @Brandroot for clearing things up...

I'm also guilty of not clearing Sold/Delisted domains from market places..

but @Sedo.. has a way of doing it nicely.. They'd periodically send me mails of removing Sold/Delisted domains..

 

[asset.domains]

peple mustakes happen sometimes, forgetting the unlusting is an example

 

[Bearded Goat]

1. "so I posted a message in the landing page of the domain..." - This is impossible. Once a domain is sold there is no way to submit a message from that landing page. However we did receive his 12-word message 1 hour before he disputed the purchase at PayPal.
2. "The owner response was a bad surprise:" - We never responded. Francois, please provide a shred of evidence that we responded to your message. We hardly had the opportunity.
3. "He was not aware of this sale..." - Of course we were aware of a $2k+ sale. Once we received the purchase we began investigating why the domain was still listed. The seller was no longer the owner. We had to get all information before reaching out to the buyer. We also attempted to buy the domain from the current owner so we could complete the purchase. At this point, money was no object; we didn't want an unsatisfied customer.

I think what was meant by number 1. is that he went to the actual page the domain was pointed to and submitted a message.

Number 2. He contacted the owner of the domain. Not brandroot....

Number 3. The owner of the domain was unaware of the sale. Again, he wrote to the owner of the domain and that owner claimed to have no knowledge of this listing..

Knowing Francois, he would not purchase something out of spite. He only purchases if he thinks he is getting a good deal.

Isn't this you:

https://www.namepros.com/threads/warning-against-a-member.836920/

Once again, I think you have handled things poorly...

 

[bazabizo]

Fairness is very important in this business. To start with, I had a very tough experience with Brandroot few months ago, that ended with both of us parting ways professionally.

Having looked at the story from both sides, I dont see much error on Brandroot's side, even if, the guy apologized promptly and the refund was sitting in the bank account 4-5 hours into the first business day! We all forget to delist names from market places. I had a domain that was wrongly priced within a bulk listing on Sedo and Afternic, 2 buyers bought it(when I was sleeping), one from each marketplace. The one on afternic bought it first, so I contacted Sedo and told them the story, the guys understood and refunded teh buyer immediately without any issues.

BR honors sales, and if they dont, they wouldnt be selling a lot! We should have a fine line between personal perceptions and professional reviews/messaging that goes publicly! I had some issues previously with BR, but I wouldnt hunt chances to get them into negative publicity. NO POINT! We all do mistakes, one shouldnt be judgemental and opportunisitic negatively!

@Brandroot you have my support in this, and one credit I give you recently is your improved composure! If this problem happened 1 year ago, I would have found screen shots of you here with a Bazooka aiming at everyone who didnt take your side

Ah, and by the way, I even tried to list my names with BR after I left BB, but we couldnt agree on some pricing, so I didnt, So basically I dont have any rolling business with BR nor Francois, I stated the abvoe out of absolute fairness to everyone. Good Luck

 

[AEProgram]

happens time to move on everyone

 

[Bearded Goat]

For me, the "error" was the reply posted above. It lacks professionalism. Could have been answered without all of the digs and accusations. But maybe I am just a nancy...

 

[DomainingCom]

@Brandroot

All what I written in my newsletter is true and to clarify I have absolutely no hard feeling against you:

- I wanted to sell Catchy.com in the past and proposed it for sale to all owners of brandables marketplaces you were one of the lot.
If now I should hate all the people that don't buy my domains!
- Regarding the domaining.com award, I use to confound Namerific and Brandroot (without want to be rude).
Without see your face in the LinkedIN note you sent me last night I will not have matched the marketplace with you, so imagine!

In fact I was so happy of the good deal I found in your site that:
- Made an impulsive purchase buying at BIN (I made my "due diligence" after my purchase).
- I signed in the Brandroot newsletter for 4L.com.
- I take the time to explain how I found your site and the domain.
- I posted a positive note for your site in my newsletter Monday.

I ONLY decided to post a new note in my newsletter because I was so disapointed by your silent after the failed purchase and I owe a clarification to my readers regarding my ownership.
I can prove what I say is true at 100% and that your complot theory makes no sense:

You certainly removed the page about the sold domain from your marketplace but after not get any news regarding the transfer I typed-in the domain and and find this make offer page HookBox copy/paste above.
I was not sure if it was a page from the owner or a "make ofer" page still served by Brandroot, but there I posted a request to have the domain transfered and got this response from the owner April 18th:

"Thanks for messaging, I don't have a account with brandroot.com, I do have a namerific.com account, but I have never used it, it might have been one of the old domain holders, if so I do apologise, I didn't know it was listed on brandroot, and are you sure it was qoni.com? If so please do contact brandroot about this so it can be resolved asap and you can get a refund.
For the domain, I wouldn't have sold it for $2300 USD, I was actually looking for around $15,000 USD for this domain and an enduser, but due to all the confusion, and I am a user of your sites, I will accept a mid $x,xxx offer if you want the domain, I usually sell domains to end users at end user pricing and normally I would wouldn't sell domains below $10,000.
I am really sorry about all this once again, had I known it was listed on brandroot, I would have asked for it to be removed, I don't use the marketplaces as most of my sales are from type ins."

Because you were not responding to emails then I went to Paypal and placed a dispute to get a refund that you accepted quickly (thanks).

For your information, the ONLY issue I have agaisnt you started 2 days ago because you did not had the kindness to respond to my mails to assist me as a customer.

After get the refund I discussed with the owner of Qoni.com and convinced him to list his domain at Catchy.com for a sale commission.

Because I was upset by your lack of consideration and owed my readers an explanation I posted this second note.

Your "fault" is not the domain was listed by a previous owner, it happens in all the marketplaces, including mine (Yes!), but simply because you did not had the kindness to send an email explaining the situation.

Last night I sent you a short note on LinkedIN telling you this":
"You really need to change the way you communicate with your customers."

You respond with:
"You are not a customer. You are a joke..." followed by your complot theory.

I just feel sorry because you have a problem of trust and apparently flagged me as an enemy, which I am not. Obviously you don't know me.

Regards.

PS1:
I just noticed above the copy/paste of this note you written in Paypal (thanks for it).
I did not realize users may attach a note when accepting a refund request.
Too bad, this was sufficient for me. This deserves a correction that will be posted in my next newsletter issue (maybe it will lead to another sale

PS2: And sorry for my bad (Frenchy) english.

 

[loredan]

Francois, these things are usually sorted out in private, like proper men do, rather than posting them out in public.

As per Brandroot's screenshots you requested a refund on 18th at 11:25 and got your money back six minutes later at 11:31 together with an apology.That's six bloody minutes! I can only wish all my refund requests to be processed that fast!

You say you had no idea that users can write notes in Paypal

I just noticed above the copy/paste of this note you written in Paypal (thanks for it).
I did not realize users may attach a note when accepting a refund request.
Too bad, this was sufficient for me. This deserves a correction that will be posted in my next newsletter issue (maybe it will lead to another sale

...but you were the first who wrote a note to BR when you requested refund so you pretty much knew about this.

 

[slimjim270]

"reporting" is more like gossip when facts aren't properly researched.

What I am observing is a screen shot of a request for a refund... and a prompt response with refund initiated (and apology for the mishap included with the prompt refund).

A "newsletter" is not news.

The lack of full disclosure of prior business attempts to sell a domain (Catchy.com) to the platform being called into question in the "newsletter" taints the "news" quality.

What happened to the good old days of a phone call to verify facts before publishing? Simple journalism 101.

-Jim

 

[bazabizo]

Best is always the one that initiates friendship or peace or whatever in such situations. I wish one of you would do that!

 

[hxp]

We need a new TV show, Desperate Domainers of Silicon Valley
...

lmao.

 

[Billy Wagner]

It's always nice to see people acting like professionals and not calling names or pointing fingers. Especially in this industry. Seems like a semi-happy ending for everyone.

 

[MasterOfMyDomains]

I got both emails the first one i just bought and second one critisizing BR
Guess its better to not brag about your purchase to 1000's of people until its in your account.