What side of illegal immigration are you on?

[movingconcierge]

Caution
Does this video make you mad because of what happens to the US post office or does it make you mad because the people videotaping get so mad at the protesters?

Strong language caution.

Tough issue, but should be obvious from this video that it's coming to a head pronto. I've been eating coffee and watching these for about 30 hours now. I'm depressed and disappointed and hopping f'ing mad.

If you're not from the US, how would you feel if this were happening in your country?

 

[B33R]

Why can't these people show some patience like the others and do it the right way....why is that so hard to understand.

Is it so hard to say hey I want to become an American citizen I am going to go fill out the paperwork and get the ball rolling...meanwhile I will continue to work and support my family like a resposible human being until we receive confirmation that we may enter the country legally....wow that is so hard!

Yeah sure, if you like waiting years, with a huge possibility of being turned down unless you're ultra-skilled, like a brain surgeon or something (which BTW doesn't mean non-brain surgeons don't have something to offer society) and somewhere in the region of low $XX,XXX, oh yeah, not to mention a job on the other side which you'd already have had to go and find, and get your potential employer to support your application.

Yeah, that's sooooooo easy! I can't imagine why they don't want to go through that.....

I guess if I need some money badly to feed my family or save my house and I need it today and I goto the bank and they say this is going to take at least 3 days..I should just rob the bank instead because I don't want to wait...I can't wait...must be now!

This is a really dumb argument. Like 3 days waiting for money (does this even happen????) is the same as wanting a decent life for yourself and your kids.

You don't have even one compassionate bone in your body? I presume you've never been short of money, you've never wanted something better for yourself and your family? I guess some people are just born lucky...

 

[DN Tycoon]

Yeah sure, if you like waiting years, with a huge possibility of being turned down unless you're ultra-skilled, like a brain surgeon or something (which BTW doesn't mean non-brain surgeons don't have something to offer society) and somewhere in the region of low $XX,XXX, oh yeah, not to mention a job on the other side which you'd already have had to go and find, and get your potential employer to support your application.

Yeah, that's sooooooo easy! I can't imagine why they don't want to go through that.....

Funny I know plenty of people who are not even ultra-skilled as you have put it and are legal. As a matter of fact I know people who lived in the U.S on a 2 year pass waiting to get their citizenship and they are working in factories...strange how this works..those who apply themselves seem to do fine and those who don't do even better illegally....

This is a really dumb argument. Like 3 days waiting for money (does this even happen????) is the same as wanting a decent life for yourself and your kids.

You don't have even one compassionate bone in your body? I presume you've never been short of money, you've never wanted something better for yourself and your family? I guess some people are just born lucky...

Of course it is a dumb argument and so is letting those who break our laws get away with it...my point! I have worked since I was 11 years old and to this day everything I own is mine and paid with hard earned money..I lived in the ghettos of Baltimore and withstood the test of life many times over an dI have always taken the right road..the resposible road...don't think for a second that I am some silver spoon kid my friend I do not know a single person who has been through what I have and have managed to stay resposible and on the right path without straying......You want to make excuses for these people and feel sorry for them...even though they are breaking the law.....alot of use struggle through life and it is our duty to set examples to those behind us to work hard and earn what you get not to try and get things for free and go around the laws.....I do not care who wants to enter this country as long as they do it the legal way and are resposible citizens...and yet this is too much to ask...too much to ask to fill out some paperwork...get a 2 year pass and wait for citizenship while working in the U.S tax free I might add. I wish I could have lived in this country for 2 years tax free would have helped me alot in those tough times.

Like I said before i respect all walks of life big and small...insect to elephant...but I do not respect those who break the law!

 

[movingconcierge]

Yeah sure, if you like waiting years, with a huge possibility of being turned down unless you're ultra-skilled, like a brain surgeon or something (which BTW doesn't mean non-brain surgeons don't have something to offer society) and somewhere in the region of low $XX,XXX, oh yeah, not to mention a job on the other side which you'd already have had to go and find, and get your potential employer to support your application.

Yeah, that's sooooooo easy! I can't imagine why they don't want to go through that.....

This is a really dumb argument. Like 3 days waiting for money (does this even happen????) is the same as wanting a decent life for yourself and your kids.

You don't have even one compassionate bone in your body? I presume you've never been short of money, you've never wanted something better for yourself and your family? I guess some people are just born lucky...

Thank you for pointing out we're being stingy with the country we fought and died for. You're right. Everyone! Come on in! Don't wait. Don't bring anything to the table. We need to revise the ode to the immigrant to read, give us your communists (watch the video), your disrespectful, your felons...

Why is it that the US has to be the receive all country? Why is it that other countries like, oh say, Mexico can say no perm status, no land ownership, no voting rights, no nada for LEGAL aliens. God only knows what ILLEGAL aliens get in return for LOOKING FOR A BETTER LIFE.

I think those who are into giving illegal aliens everything with a smile do not have them impacting their communities. Yes they kill people. Yes they do drugs. Yes they have fake driver's licenses and cause accidents. Yes they lower wages. Yes they SUCK THE LIFE out of government services that legal Americans rely on like public hospitals, welfare, unemployment, etc. If you don't beleive it, you don't live in it. Come on down to Sunny Los Angeles on a Saturday. Go to a Home Depot or Lowes, or any street corner near a building materials store and watch bastard contractors opt for the cheap alternative to legal citizens. What about OUR families? Watch them get hurt on the job and sue the unknowing homeowner that hired that bastard contractor. Watch them go to a public ER and not get turned away and take a bed from a legal citizen. Yeah...There's nothing wrong with that is there?

 

[B33R]

Like I said before i respect all walks of life big and small...insect to elephant...but I do not respect those who break the law!

To quote someone else....

"Weren’t Washington, Jefferson, Franklin and all the founding fathers lawbreakers? Wasn’t Thoreau? Or Martin Luther King?
Wasn’t the Declaration of Independence itself an act of lawbreaking?"

How about the Holocaust? If everyone was like you and followed the law to the letter, how many more Jews would have been killed? If no one helped the Jews escape, how many more would be gassed or shot? After all the people who shopped the Jews, the people who killed the Jews, they were only following the law weren't they?

How about starving people in third world countries? Should they not steal food because it's against the law? The alternative for them is really appealing, isn't it?

What about people fleeing persecution in Iraq or another dictatorship? We should just ship them back without worrying about the reasons?

There's two sides to every story, laws can be unjust. If you can't see things from the other people's point of view, then I truly pity you. If no one had any empathy, tolerance or compassion, then I'm certain the world wouldn't be worth living in.

As for this other member, "Yes they kill people. Yes they do drugs. Yes they have fake driver's licenses and cause accidents."

Immigrants may break one law but that doesn't mean they break every law, if only life were that simple and you could stereotype everyone like that...

I'm sure every black man is a street robber, everyone who plays videogames is gonna rampage through a school, everyone who works with children is a paedophile... the list of unfair stereotypes goes on...

 

[labrocca]

FYI- I live in Vegas..I am around PLENTY if Mexicans...I don't ask them for paperwork since it's not my business but I would guess that plenty of them are illegal. As I stated before...I never been bothered by them. My sons school I realize can be effected negatively by a large non-english speaking class but we all have crosses to bear.

Is it so hard to say hey I want to become an American citizen I am going to go fill out the paperwork and get the ball rolling...meanwhile I will continue to work and support my family like a resposible human being until we receive confirmation that we may enter the country legally....wow that is so hard!

It's really not as easy as you make it sound. Many of the illegals pay a years wage or more to get out of Mexico. Do you really think they would do that if they can just fill out a form and wait?

Also..let's think about crime and being an illegal immigrant. Wouldn't you think a fair amount of immigrants want to remain incognito since ANY police action...even a traffic pullover could get them deported.

Complaining about bad drivers, crime, drugs, and the rest has very little to do with illegal immigrants. People are annoying...all of them.

As a police officer I really think you are too focused on their legal status. It's just not as cut and dry as that otherwise the problem would be solved by now. There are economic factors involved here. From factories to restaurants to Walmart....many Americans benefit from the cheap labor. I can't imagine what my landscaping would have cost if not for the Mexicans that did the job. I never seen harder working people that simply don't complain because A) they need the money and B) Mexico must really suck and being here is very important to them.

I personally wish for amnesty and that every person in America be given a fair and equal chance. Immigration law itself imho isn't fair. This is a free and open society...we should let anyone come that wants to provided they knock first and sign the guestbook. The problem isn't the legal status of immigrants...the problem is politicians that can't work them into our society.

 

[DN Tycoon]

FYI- I live in Vegas..I am around PLENTY if Mexicans...I don't ask them for paperwork since it's not my business but I would guess that plenty of them are illegal. As I stated before...I never been bothered by them. My sons school I realize can be effected negatively by a large non-english speaking class but we all have crosses to bear.



It's really not as easy as you make it sound. Many of the illegals pay a years wage or more to get out of Mexico. Do you really think they would do that if they can just fill out a form and wait?

Also..let's think about crime and being an illegal immigrant. Wouldn't you think a fair amount of immigrants want to remain incognito since ANY police action...even a traffic pullover could get them deported.

Complaining about bad drivers, crime, drugs, and the rest has very little to do with illegal immigrants. People are annoying...all of them.

As a police officer I really think you are too focused on their legal status. It's just not as cut and dry as that otherwise the problem would be solved by now. There are economic factors involved here. From factories to restaurants to Walmart....many Americans benefit from the cheap labor. I can't imagine what my landscaping would have cost if not for the Mexicans that did the job. I never seen harder working people that simply don't complain because A) they need the money and B) Mexico must really suck and being here is very important to them.

I personally wish for amnesty and that every person in America be given a fair and equal chance. Immigration law itself imho isn't fair. This is a free and open society...we should let anyone come that wants to provided they knock first and sign the guestbook. The problem isn't the legal status of immigrants...the problem is politicians that can't work them into our society.

There you go blaming everyone else but the illegals....I gues you are right we should have open borders and let people come and go as they please....I do not see how you figure cheap labor helps our community seeing how it lowers wages and as we all know the cost of living goes up not down.....so an illegal takes a job for $4.00hr that is normally $12.00hr and now the American citizen either has to work for $4.00hr or struggle...it's nice to know everything is going in the way of those who break the law..while legal citizen suffer....I never said the act of becomming a citizen was easy but if thousands of immigrants can do it then why can't the others..simple because they don't care they only want the now....

B33R I am not even going to respond to your post as it is wat off base.

 

[movingconcierge]

How about the Holocaust? If everyone was like you and followed the law to the letter, how many more Jews would have been killed? If no one helped the Jews escape, how many more would be gassed or shot? After all the people who shopped the Jews, the people who killed the Jews, they were only following the law weren't they?

Nice hitler comment, B33R. I couldn't have predicted such a low brow response at sometime during this debate. It was actually pretty civil up until you posed your crass and ignorant comparison. I could whip out some of the slurs I heard from your fellow countrymen directed at some of the Middle-Easterners that have migrated LEGALLY to your country. But let's just leave that sour taste to fade.

I'm not sure your welcome back to this thread.

 

[B33R]

Nice hitler comment, B33R. I couldn't have predicted such a low brow response at sometime during this debate. It was actually pretty civil up until you posed your crass and ignorant comparison. I could whip out some of the slurs I heard from your fellow countrymen directed at some of the Middle-Easterners that have migrated LEGALLY to your country. But let's just leave that sour taste to fade.

I'm not sure your welcome back to this thread.

Hitler comment?

I was only saying that if they'd followed the "law" to the letter, as you're suggesting everyone should at all times, the consequences would have been even more severe. I didn't even mention Hitler...

As for "whipping out some slurs", feel free. They have nothing to do with me, I've never said anything like that, in fact, quite the opposite. All I do is stick up for the people who are trying do what's right for themselves and their family.
So feel free to bring up any slurs you please. I'm sure your country has its fair share of idiots and racists too.

Anyway, you can say what you like but the fact still remains, you want to get rid of the illegal foreigners but you still can't propose a way of removing them and making sure they stay out and that no more come in.

The world isn't always black and white, right and wrong. Sometimes people have to do crazy things just to survive and to live life. If you can't accept that then I suggest you go ask some illegal immigrants why they're in your country. You might even learn something by doing it.

 

[labrocca]

There you go blaming everyone else but the illegals....I gues you are right we should have open borders and let people come and go as they please....I do not see how you figure cheap labor helps our community seeing how it lowers wages and as we all know the cost of living goes up not down.....so an illegal takes a job for $4.00hr that is normally $12.00hr and now the American citizen either has to work for $4.00hr or struggle...it's nice to know everything is going in the way of those who break the law..while legal citizen suffer....I never said the act of becomming a citizen was easy but if thousands of immigrants can do it then why can't the others..simple because they don't care they only want the now....

B33R I am not even going to respond to your post as it is wat off base.

The proof is in the pudding. Low unemployment rates! How do you figure Americans are losing jobs? I tell you one thing...more outsourcing to other countries may take place if we lose the cheap immigration work force. As least a good portion of the money stays here when it's given to the immigrants.

Immigrants help keep the cost of living down BECAUSE they get paid so little. It's proven economics.

http://www.businessweek.com/investor/content/apr2006/pi20060407_072803.htm

My favorite quote from that article:

Each year, for example, the U.S. Social Security Administration maintains roughly $6 billion to $7 billion of Social Security contributions in an "earnings suspense file" -- an account for W-2 tax forms that cannot be matched to the correct Social Security number. The vast majority of these numbers are attributable to undocumented workers who will never claim their benefits.

Also

Taxes from the spending of undocumented workers can help offset the costs those workers generate. Past studies have shown that even in a state like California, which has the highest number of undocumented immigrants, those immigrants generate approximately one-third to one-half of their estimated costs to the state through sales taxes and other assorted fees. In short, these costs are real, but they could also be more manageable.

Yes there are negative impacts on the economy as well as positives. The same could be said for a lot of people or even COMPANIES. Corporate welfare is MUCH worse problem than illegal immigrants imho. Corporations shouldn't be given blank checks whenever they need it (airlines for example...farmers too).


The immigration issue can be turned into a positive if our elected officials choose to make it so. Most of the immigrants from Mexico are in 4 states..mainly California. Why not help them to move around a bit? Start programs in the mid-west.

Oh and for the hitler comment. It's tiresome all the times in political arguements people make a comparison to Hitler or the Nazi's. It gets old and truth be told...That era is nothing like today or this situation. People use it for shock value alone and normally it's because they are unable to argue their point any other way.

Nuff said bout that.

 

[Ixix]

There you go blaming everyone else but the illegals....I gues you are right we should have open borders and let people come and go as they please....I do not see how you figure cheap labor helps our community seeing how it lowers wages and as we all know the cost of living goes up not down.....so an illegal takes a job for $4.00hr that is normally $12.00hr and now the American citizen either has to work for $4.00hr or struggle...it's nice to know everything is going in the way of those who break the law..while legal citizen suffer....I never said the act of becomming a citizen was easy but if thousands of immigrants can do it then why can't the others..simple because they don't care they only want the now....

B33R I am not even going to respond to your post as it is wat off base.

I am personally curious to see how many friends you know that are working for 4.00 an hour. How many 'legal citizens' are suffering in your neighboorhood. According to the major economical reports, not many....because employment's up, spending is up....so much so the fed's continually raising interest rates to curb inflation.

If you look at a crowd of immigrants, can you tell which is legal and which is illegal? Are we going to have to 'stamp' some sort of emblem on the forhead of every immigrant that comes into the country?

Don't tell me that I don't have a clue about the immigration issue. I live in Arizona, where political entities are using this topic to win elections. Everyday, i see the positive results hispanic immigrants have on our community. I see them performing hard labor intensive work early in the morning and late in the evening. I don't know about you, but looking at them, i can't tell which one is the legal, and which one is the illegal. Our communities are not going down, they are improving. Yes, there are some bad apples that might cross over, but i see that as the exception, not the rule....just like bad american citzens.

The beauty of this country, is that you can become rich and wealthy without getting a 'job' either. By this, i mean that while many americans make there livelihoods having a 9-5 job, the truely wealthy started out with their own business and made money working for themselves. If anything, the reason why most americans are struggling financially has nothing to do with illegal immigration, You're never gonna get rich with the basic 9-5 job. (credit card debt is also a major reason why americans are suffering financially which has nothing to do w/illegals) I read somewhere that in the turn of the 1900's a majority of americans had their own business, and a few worked for someone else.....now those numbers are switched.

If i listen to the news broadcasts, or political entities....i'd think that there's a big disastrous problem. But, I ignore the spin, and look and think for myself. From where i stand, this country was built on the backs of legal and illegal immigrants, and the heart of this 'illegal' debate is nothing more than an attempt to divide us and to put hatred on our hearts by people that just want to win an election.

 

[movingconcierge]

I am personally curious to see how many friends you know that are working for 4.00 an hour. How many 'legal citizens' are suffering in your neighboorhood. According to the major economical reports, not many....because employment's up, spending is up....so much so the fed's continually raising interest rates to curb inflation.

If one legal American citizen is displaced by the acts of his illegal immigrant equal it is too many. I'd like to hear how you disagree with this.

If you look at a crowd of immigrants, can you tell which is legal and which is illegal? Are we going to have to 'stamp' some sort of emblem on the forhead of every immigrant that comes into the country?

You could / should start with the 80/20 rule; i.e. you could ID 80% of ILLEGAL aliens by taking a 20% action. That action would be station INS / ICE agents at major hardware and building material suppliers.

To find the remaining 20% would remain a challenge but the immediate relief and disruption of this major thumbing of the nose at the LAW would be a huge help.

Don't tell me that I don't have a clue about the immigration issue. I live in Arizona, where political entities are using this topic to win elections.

It is exactly BECAUSE this issue is used in political debates that we should pay attention to it. Do you think that politicians run on platforms that only 2 people in their constituency find important? If so, you don't have a firm grasp of what it takes to run a political campaign. You must have a LARGE platform; i.e. that 80/20 rule again.

Everyday, i see the positive results hispanic immigrants have on our community. I see them performing hard labor intensive work early in the morning and late in the evening. I don't know about you, but looking at them, i can't tell which one is the legal, and which one is the illegal.

Again the same, repetitive, muddy response. It is ILLEGAL immigrants from Mexico. Of course they work hard. Their government has forced them to live hard lives. They've taken a hard journey. They will make many dollars more per hour ILLEGALLY and under the table than they ever have. I'd work hard too.

I can tell the "ones" that probably are illegal by seeing where they congregate and how they secure work. I see the "new ones" scatter when a police cruiser drives by. The veterans know that the police don't do squat.

I don't deny that some of them are good-hearted, hard-working people.

It's that arrogant ILLEGAL, circumventing the system,

that demanding the same rights that Americans fought and died for,

that waiving the Mexican flag instead of the American flag,

that ignorant position that California, and several other states are in the process of being reclaimed by some Mexican organizations,

that hypocrisy of the Mexican government whose immigration laws are 10x more strict than the US',

that arrogant and unearned opinion that US citizens should just accept these border jumpers because they have had it hard...WELL WHAT ABOUT OUR LEGAL POOR?

Our communities are not going down, they are improving. Yes, there are some bad apples that might cross over, but i see that as the exception, not the rule....just like bad american citzens.

I think this is a delusional statement.

Our communities do go down when there are ten ILLEGAL aliens living in a one or two bedroom apartment.

Our communities do go down when dozens of ILLEGAL aliens congregate on our corners, leaving their trash and urinating and defecating in public.

Our communities do go down when ILLEGAL aliens get sick or hurt and visit hospitals and clinics set up for legal American citizens.

Our communities do go down when ILLEGAL aliens take a job away from a legal American citizen for less than the usual wage.

Our communities are going down. It may be that you are not immersed in it or are immune to it for one reason or another. Personally, I am immersed and not immune and I see things completely different from you.

The beauty of this country, is that you can become rich and wealthy without getting a 'job' either. [...]

I don't know what this paragraph has to do with it.

If i listen to the news broadcasts, or political entities....i'd think that there's a big disastrous problem. But, I ignore the spin, and look and think for myself. From where i stand, this country was built on the backs of legal and illegal immigrants, and the heart of this 'illegal' debate is nothing more than an attempt to divide us and to put hatred on our hearts by people that just want to win an election.

And here in lies the majority of the problem. My opinion is that because there is so much conflict and emotion in this argument some people shut down or begin to think irrationally, on both sides. The problem is real. It is just a shame that emotion is overrunning logic. Law is analytical and not emotional. That is how it should be. Compassion in the law is rare and is the exception and not the rule. To overrule such a major legal policy with emotional arguments would be a huge mistake in my opinion.

Good debate...anyone else have a civil opinion or response?

 

[labrocca]

If one legal American citizen is displaced by the acts of his illegal immigrant equal it is too many. I'd like to hear how you disagree with this.

I don't agree. Unemployment is incredibly low..there are jobs out there...LOTS of jobs. Doubtful many Americans want to wash dishes for minimum wage or stand in 110 degree heat and work a shovel.

that demanding the same rights that Americans fought and died for,

You do realize that some of the people we fought and killed were Mexicans. And in the past wars and the current Iraq there have been plenty of Mexicans fighting for us.

I think there is a difference between Mexicans taking over California and MEXICO taking over. The flag raisings are NOT cool but I think they are the stupid actions of a few. I think California will have a problem if they decide to kick out Mexicans...you risk riots and dare a say..a civil war. These people came here for our society and jobs not to make enemies.

I really want you to think and answer this one:
You have a lot of emphasis on the illegal status. If they were given amnesty...making them legal...what would be your position then?

 

[movingconcierge]

I don't agree. Unemployment is incredibly low..there are jobs out there...LOTS of jobs. Doubtful many Americans want to wash dishes for minimum wage or stand in 110 degree heat and work a shovel.

Does that include those Americans who come here legally from Mexico and South America? Because they are the same only some came here the right way and some arrogantly took something that did not belong to them.

You do realize that some of the people we fought and killed were Mexicans.

Of course, but what does that have to do with people jumping the border?

And in the past wars and the current Iraq there have been plenty of Mexicans fighting for us.

Were they ILLEGAL aliens or were they nationalized citizens. I want to emphasize that the only reason I folded Mexico into this debate was the claim of many of their groups that California and other states are Mexican land. If a nationalized citizen originally from Mexico fought for us, then you should say they were American and not Mexican. You cannot have a dual citizenship and join the military so far as I know. You cannot be an ILLEGAL alien either.

I think there is a difference between Mexicans taking over California and MEXICO taking over. The flag raisings are NOT cool but I think they are the stupid actions of a few.

In EVERY SINGLE march, gathering, protest, demonstration, etc. I have seen the Mexican flag waived, praised, saluted, and put above the American flag. It can only be inferred from these images and facts that these groups want to assimilate America into Mexico and NOT visa versa.

I think California will have a problem if they decide to kick out Mexicans...you risk riots and dare a say..a civil war. These people came here for our society and jobs not to make enemies.

That is fallacious reasoning not to take the right and proper action out of fear of resistance. Of course there would be resistance! A civil war assumes that both groups are Americans. I think a more accurate assessment would be we would have to fight a foreign insurgency.

In the same breath as you say ILLEGAL aliens are here for jobs and peace you mention their propensity towards violence. I concur.

I really want you to think and answer this one:
You have a lot of emphasis on the illegal status. If they were given amnesty...making them legal...what would be your position then?

My position would be one of animosity and resentment for putting us in such a position to have to give a get out of jail free card to millions simply because there are millions. I'm sure I could extrapolate several scenarios that most would find offensive and unacceptable, but that follow the same line of logic as granting amnesty. It is a bad policy. It is the policy of failure. I say fight. That's my position.

 

[labrocca]

I can't really refute what you say. You have stated your position and rather well too I might add. Ultimately it's our votes and the politicians we elect that will decide this mess.

I think if amnesty is granted there will be a lot of animosity and resentment toward the Mexicans. It will definitely be a negative. It's impossible in this situation to please everyone.

Can I ask you if you felt this way 3-4 years ago? When did you feel you were polarized on the issue?

imho this debate is similar to gay marriage...I am against it but I know it will eventually become law. America has a history of folding to those that demand equality. I just don't see any way to deal with the immigration problem than Amnesty. We do need better policy.

I still think we should go the radical route and take Mexico. If we are in Iraq to keep the terrorists there why not take the fight to Mexico....won't that do the same?

 

[movingconcierge]

I can't really refute what you say. You have stated your position and rather well too I might add. Ultimately it's our votes and the politicians we elect that will decide this mess.

Thanks. I wish I could change your mind.

I think if amnesty is granted there will be a lot of animosity and resentment toward the Mexicans. It will definitely be a negative. It's impossible in this situation to please everyone.

Best to start with your American countrymen.

Can I ask you if you felt this way 3-4 years ago? When did you feel you were polarized on the issue?

I grew up VERY liberal, integrated, and happy about it. It really has become a bigger issue since I planted roots in a community, took out the biggest debt of my life, and had a child. I look toward to the future and try to wrap my head around seamingly little things and apply a global view to them.

More recently, I've had family move out of the area specifically noting the illegal alien issue. They are in construction and were being lowballed on job after job. They got sick of the uninsured laborers driving down wages.

It's really been a culmination of time and straws.

imho this debate is similar to gay marriage...I am against it but I know it will eventually become law.

You see, I'm on the other side of the fence again. I think they should have all the positives and negatives that come with marriage. If you are against ellicit sex, why would you prohibit monogamy? That seems counter-intuitive to me. Start a gay marriage thread and we'll debate it!

America has a history of folding to those that demand equality. I just don't see any way to deal with the immigration problem than Amnesty. We do need better policy.

Equality is earned not stolen.

I still think we should go the radical route and take Mexico. If we are in Iraq to keep the terrorists there why not take the fight to Mexico....won't that do the same?

I think we should mind our on f'ing business in the world and keep our troops on the borders. That is the more global problem. What the hell do I care about warring factions in some land I can't pin on a map when I pass two dozen homeless on my way to the store?

Don't our priorities seem a little backward? We seem to want to help everyone but our (LEGAL) own. It's sort of sadistic. If we just focused on home, we'd be stronger and more confident dealing with foreign relations.

 

[vrwrys]

You misunderstood me!I don't support illegal immigration at all,but i do think a man trying to feed his family should not have a gun pointed at his face.Would you?There are other ways of handling it,like making it mandatory to speak our language before you can qualify for a visa.I'm not saying it would stop the problem but it will slow down the influx of people looking for jobs and as far as illegal children being born on US soil, they are still under the guardianship of there parents until they become of age to decide which country they want to live in.Now that will stop illegals from having children for residency.Not just mexicans anybody.Believe me no other country tolerates this but the United States.You have to speak the language of that country to recieve any kind of benefits or apply for a job.

 

[robert widener]

illegals can take their asses home

 

[wormfood]

 

[robert widener]

FYI- I live in Vegas..I am around PLENTY if Mexicans...I don't ask them for paperwork since it's not my business but I would guess that plenty of them are illegal. As I stated before...I never been bothered by them. My sons school I realize can be effected negatively by a large non-english speaking class but we all have crosses to bear.



It's really not as easy as you make it sound. Many of the illegals pay a years wage or more to get out of Mexico. Do you really think they would do that if they can just fill out a form and wait?

Also..let's think about crime and being an illegal immigrant. Wouldn't you think a fair amount of immigrants want to remain incognito since ANY police action...even a traffic pullover could get them deported.

Complaining about bad drivers, crime, drugs, and the rest has very little to do with illegal immigrants. People are annoying...all of them.

As a police officer I really think you are too focused on their legal status. It's just not as cut and dry as that otherwise the problem would be solved by now. There are economic factors involved here. From factories to restaurants to Walmart....many Americans benefit from the cheap labor. I can't imagine what my landscaping would have cost if not for the Mexicans that did the job. I never seen harder working people that simply don't complain because A) they need the money and B) Mexico must really suck and being here is very important to them.

I personally wish for amnesty and that every person in America be given a fair and equal chance. Immigration law itself imho isn't fair. This is a free and open society...we should let anyone come that wants to provided they knock first and sign the guestbook. The problem isn't the legal status of immigrants...the problem is politicians that can't work them into our society.

wrong