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Strategy for Expiring/Deleting Domains

Labeled as strategy in Domain Expiration and Domain Drop Catching started by stub, Sep 9, 2015.

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  1. domain invest3r

    domain invest3r Pinyin domains for sale Gold Account

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    Do Dynadot do backorders Stub?
     
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  2. stub

    stub Top Member PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Does anybody know which dropcatcher is catching Web associated domains. My guess would be SnapNames are capturing domains going to NetSol, and NameJet captured domains going to various registrars with Web.com owned DNS servers. Would that be accurate?
     
  3. stub

    stub Top Member PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Yes they do. At the moment, I'm testing out if they are better than Pheenix. My impression is they are. But I'm trying to get the empirical evidence that this is true. But with so little facts, it will probably always be better to backorder at both. My testing will be complete in a couple of days. So look out for it. So far Dynadot has caught all the domains which have been captured except 1 captured at Pheenix. At the moment, I'm trying to prove that if I didn't backorder at Pheenix, then that 1 domain would most likely have been caught by Dynadot. Which is a surprise for me. And would completely reverse my thinking on Pheenix's ability to capture domains with their 100+ registrars.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2016
  4. davidc1

    davidc1 Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    web.com and snapnames is the same company.
     
  5. stub

    stub Top Member PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I'm not sure if I answered that question fully. I've only had 1or2 domains go to auction for the 15 months I've been using Pheenix. This is probably because of my choice criteria. I'm expecting them to be dropping domains not picked up by DropCatch, SnapNames, NameJet. I'm expecting them to drop and to be picked up by Pheenix without any competition, whilst I'm busy sleeping :) Let's say I pickup an average of 1 domain/day for a year. That would be 1/365x100%= 0.274%. An insignificant percentage.
     
  6. stub

    stub Top Member PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Web.com is not solely SnapNames :(
     
  7. davidc1

    davidc1 Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I mean snapnames is now part of web.com
     
  8. stub

    stub Top Member PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Yes. I know. But that isn't really new News. But how can you tell whether it is SnapNames or NameJet which captured the domain, when it is registered at a Web associated company, like netsol or any of a host of other associated companies? Or should we just consider Web.com the drop catching company? Or SnapNames/NameJet combined?
     
  9. davidc1

    davidc1 Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I dont care if the domain is catched by sn or nj as it cost me exactly the same amount and the domain goes to the same nsi account.

    why do you want to know that ?
     
  10. stub

    stub Top Member PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Results from Yesterday's Drop Dynadot-2 DropCatch-1.

    So I captured 2 and Pheenix was again not a player. Likely because I was the only person backordering the domains won by Dynadot.

    So it's beginning to look like all Pheenix's 100+ registrars are not capturing as many low-end domains as Dynadot. And the 1 domain they did catch to-date would probably have been caught by Dynadot, if it had not been backordered at Pheenix as well. Whereas, the other way around, all other backorders caught by Dynadot were not captured by Pheenix, when backordered at both dropcatchers.

    Of course this is a miniscule sample. And there are way to many variables. But for me. My hypothesis is that Dynanot captured all domains to date (with 1 exception), and that exception would have been picked up by Dynadot, if I hadn't backorder it at Pheenix. Making Dynadot are a better low-end dropcatcher than Pheenix. It used to be the other way around. So this is a revelation. At least to me.

    This testing will end with a flurry, with the next drop. Where I have 6 domains backordered this time at both Pheenix and Dynadot.
     
  11. stub

    stub Top Member PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Because I'm trying to be as specific as possible about who captured the domain. Or should I just say DropCatch and Everone Else?

    Are you saying all your dropcaught domains at SN/NJ all go to NetSol Account? Then who is catching all those other domains at a variety of registrars associated with Web.com, which don't mention NetSol in their whois?
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2016
  12. davidc1

    davidc1 Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    yes all my domains goes to my netsol account. But i'm a bulk buyer with a partner account, i dont know if it's different for regular buyers.
     
  13. stub

    stub Top Member PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    OK. I think I continue to say 1. DropCatch, 2. SN/NJ when I see NetSol in whois, 3. Other Web.com when I can see DNS Servers are owned by Web.com (and I don't see Netsol in whois), 4. Dynadot/Pheenix etc. Until I get a better explanation. Anybody?
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2016
  14. davidc1

    davidc1 Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    @stub, give me some registrar sample for : 3.
    I will check if i have some of my domains with the same registrar that i have ordered thru my snapnames account.
     
  15. stub

    stub Top Member PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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  16. stub

    stub Top Member PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    OK. Here is the results of my final test comparing the success of the dropcatching of Dynadot against Pheenix. Of the six domains dropped yesterday....

    Dynadot-4 Web.com Associated(Register)-2

    So. Again. I won 4 at Dynadot, and Pheenix (where I also backordered) nowhere in sight.

    I think this is as conclusive evidence as I can obtain that Dynadot beats Pheenix hands down for dropcatching domains which I consider will not be caught by any of the big dropcatchers. But I would warn there are many variables. The size of the sample being one of the biggest. I'll do the maths later. But whereas Dynadot grabbed many domains for me, Pheenix grabbed only 1. Which, IMHO (and testing) would have been picked up by Dynadot if I hadn't backordered it at Pheenix. But the same cannot be said to be true of Pheenix, based on the evidence here. Although this was never actually tested. Because it wasn't really necessary to test the weaker dropcatcher, when I have already identified the stronger dropcatcher.

    Conclusion. Well obviously the best situation would be to backorder at both Dynadot and Pheenix. But I am going to switch my backordering from Pheenix to Dynadot from now on. 1 lost domain once in a while, is small compared to the number of domains picked up by DropCatch, SN/NJ and other Web.com Associated Companies, because of my wrong assessment that they wouldn't be picked up by anyone else.
     
  17. claudius

    claudius New Member

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    Nice thread, thanks to everyone involved!

    If I back-order a pending delete currently registered by godaddy on their own platform, would it go into public auction if I am successful? (I understand that all domains successfuly backordered go to their public auction system but I'm not sure)

    Can snapnames/dropcatch be better than godaddy if it is the current registrar?

    Thanks for your help
     
  18. stub

    stub Top Member PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    We must first clarify if the domain you are talking about at GoDaddy, is a Pre-Release (their normal auctions before 45 days after expiry) or Pending Delete (the domain is about to drop (81 days after expiry).

    If it is Pre-Release. No point to backorder it anywhere other than where it is registered. In this case GoDaddy.

    If it is Pending Delete. The probability is GoDaddy will not pickup the domain unless it drops and stays dropped. Your choice of backorder company depends on whether it is desirable or not. You could check on NameJet to see if it has any backorders, for instance. If yes. Then I'd backorder it at DropCatch and NameJet. If no. And you don't mind the price and you really want the domain. Place a full priced backorder on DropCatch. If the domain is not essential to you and you don't mind the risk of losing it. You could backorder it at a cheaper backorderer, like Dynadot or Pheenix.

    One proviso. If you place a backorder at DropCatch and more than one other person also backorders at DropCatch, the ensuing auction is public. If you place a backorder on SnapNames/NameJet the ensuing auction would be private. But you give up some certaintly of capturing the domain if there is a backorder also on DropCatch (which you will never know). In both cases, if you are the only backorderer, you win the domain outright.

    Hope that helps.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2016
  19. claudius

    claudius New Member

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    Great answer, that helps a lot!

    The domain is currently Pending Delete. As it's registered with godaddy I felt like they would have more luck in getting it using their own backorder system. But seems like it isn't that good, and once you add money in it's locked there, even if they don't get the domain. Doesn't sound good.

    I'll follow your advice and focus on DropCatch. I'll probably also add a bid on NameJet or SnapNames. By the way, is there any reason to go with one rather than the other of those two, as domains names would end up in the same bidding pool if either of those catches it?

    When you backorder a domain using DropCatch / NameJet is it still possible that a cheaper backorderer, like Dynadot or Pheenix catches the domain or does it never happens?

    Thank you!
     
  20. stub

    stub Top Member PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    DropCatch is by far the premier dropping service. It will catch most of the drops that have orders there. The downside, as I've said, is that if more than one buyer, the auction is open to everybody. Not just those those who bid on the domain. Like at SN/NJ. So prices generally go up in the public auctions compared to the private auctions. SN/NJ pool there dropping resources. So shouldn't be much of a consideration. You can never say never, but it's extremely, extremely unlikely, unless there are no bids at DropCatch and HugeDomains aren't interested in it.
     
  21. claudius

    claudius New Member

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    Ok, great. Thanks stub!
     
  22. stub

    stub Top Member PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    As I said in the Pheenix thread. Dynadot beats Pheenix hands down at dropcatching.
     
  23. cipcip

    cipcip Owner of TutorialIndex.com VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    You can use the one you would like based on reviews. I usually tend to switch between them.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2016
  24. stub

    stub Top Member PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Sorry for the late reply (by a year) ;) I have used, but don't use anymore, their Gold Service. I only use their SuperSaver Service. I always check who wins the domains I've backordered. From my memory, I don't ever recall seeing Pheenix capture a domain, that I've backordered, and either not won outright, or went to auction, because there was another SuperSaver backorder. Meaning. I've never lost a SuperSaver Backorder to a Gold Backorder. However, like a lot of things in this thread. With such small samples, it's difficult to say with certainty, that it doesn't happen. All I can say is, it has NEVER happened to me. But then I only ever use Pheenix for domains which I think may not be backordered, at the big three (DropCatch, SnapNames, Namejet). So. If it's not backordered at those three, it is unlikely to be backordered at Pheenix Gold, also.
     
  25. stub

    stub Top Member PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    My strategy as of today.

    Jump to the last paragraph, for the summary.

    If I think a domain will definitely be backordered by DropCatch or SnapNames/NameJet. I place a full-priced backorder at DropCatch. This is not so many domains, because I try to concentrate on domains which will not be backordered at these drop-catchers. I probably backorder 1 domain there, maybe once in every two weeks.

    My results have been mixed. Just a couple of days ago, I saw a domain with a keyword I wanted, which I have seen HugeDomains capture every other domain using that keyword, in the last couple of months. So I backordered it at DropCatch. I was pleasantly surprised I won the backorder without any competition. Which probably means my backorder, took HugeDomains out of the picture for that domain. As DropCatch's policy states. This small win gave me immense pleasure :)

    But mostly, there is more than 1 backorder, and I lose the domain in the auction, because there were 2 backorderers, and a public auction. And the auction goes beyond my price cap.

    I don't bid on SnapNames/NameJet. If I bid for a full price backorder, it's always at DropCatch. But I would still advise to bid at both DropCatch AND SnapNames if you really want the domain. SnapNames can, on rare occasions, beat DropCatch.

    As an aside. I have tried David's PRnator service, who is a SnapNames Reseller backorder service. Cost is 30 Euros (approx $32). I've used it twice. Both times it has captured the domain. These were domains which I thought might be below DropCatch's high standards, but possibly could have been picked-up by SnapNames/Namejet, which I wanted. This is not a full review of David's service, but I didn't like that you can only top up amounts of 100 Euros. This means after 3 purchases, you have 10 Euros to refund of top up another 100 Euros. It would be better if he change the top-up to 90 Euros, so that after every three purchases, your balance is completely extinguished. The only other thing was, he pushes the domains to you with privacy enabled, with his privacy details. But NetSol's Account says your privacy is not enabled. And it's a PITA to get NetSol to remove that privacy. It can be done. But if he changed his standard operation to push without privacy, all that would not be necessary. His service is not fully automated. You have to email him the domain(s) you wish to backorder. I think the dropcatch pecking order is DropCatch, SnapNames/NameJet, PRnator, Dynadot/Pheenix, in that order. Of the services I've mentioned in this thread.

    Well that was a lot of words, for something I don't normally use.

    My main focus, is the bottom feeding of domains not backordered at DC/SN/NJ. I backorder both at Dynadot and Pheenix. Now that Pheenix have bought, what was it, 500 more registrars, which I don't know if they've been deployed yet. Pheenix now captures the odd domain, when before they bought these 500 new registrars, they were being whitewashed by Dynadot. I would say, from my experience, of which I don't have any deep knowledge of how it works. That Dynadot has a much better system in catching these dropping domains, with their dozen or so registrars compared to, what is it now, 800 or so, for Pheenix. I thought it was whoever got contact with the Registry first wins the domain. So the more the registrars you have the greater chances you have. But there must be some other factors at work here, that I am not aware of. There must be some way they prioritize their contacts with the Registry (thinking aloud)

    So in summary. Most of what I have written in my first and subsequent posts remains true today. If I really want a domain, I backorder it at DropCatch (but I'd recommend also to use SnapNames). Although the chances are slim that I will capture the domain outright. Otherwise I backorder at Dynadot and Pheenix. And get beaten by mostly DropCatch or SnapNames, if my assessment was wrong. I would say my success rate is approx 50% plus/minus 10%.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2017

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