strategy Strategy for Expiring/Deleting Domains

[Name Trader]

Here is a comprehensive strategy for buying domains at Expiring/Deleting Domain Auctions, as of Sept 2015. This process describes how the process of capturing .COM/.NET domains work.

Graphic Courtesy of ICANN​

PRE-RELEASE DOMAIN AUCTIONS

A Pre-Release Domain Auction is an Auction for a domain which has Expired but which can still be renewed or transferred out (restrictions apply.. see below) by the current Registrant.

This is the first stage of the domain dropping process. From 0-45 days after expiry. (The Auto-Renew Grace Period, in ICANN speak). All Pre-Release Auctions end whilst the Registrar still has control of the domain before Day 45 after expiry. On day 46 the domain is given back by the Registrar to the Registry and it will definitely be deleted. There are only very rare exceptions. Renewal (the renewal price plus the Registrar's penalty) by the original Registrant is the most common.

Usually these Auctions begin at most Registrars or Drop Catchers at around 35 days after expiry (varies with Auctioneer) and the domain has still not been renewed by the current Registrant.

The main venues for these auctions are either at a Registrar which has an Auction System, like GoDaddy, or at Snapnames/NameJet which have entered into agreements with some Registrars to be the sole Auctioneer for their Expiring Domain Names.

Usually the current Owner of these domains still has the right to renew the domain. But sometimes Registrars who have agreements with Snapnames/Namejet restrict these rights. GoDaddy is the most generous. Allowing transfer out (or renewal at Godaddy with a penalty) up to 42 days after expiry. You need to read each individual Registrars ToS to know the time they give you to renew the domain or then lose your ownership rights. ICANN says it should be at 45 days. But no significant Registrar follows ICANN rules, here.

GoDaddy is the biggest Pre-Release Auction Market on the planet by way of the fact they are by far the biggest Registrar. SnapNames/Namejet are 2nd and 3rd to GoDaddy, respectively. Everyone else are bit players in this Market. They have a small Market Share. How much? difficult to say, but probably less than 10% for all of them combined. No facts to substantiate this.

It is highly recommended that if you see a domain in a Pre-Release Auction Market you want, you should bid on it at that Auction and not anywhere else. ie: If it is at SnapNames then only bid on it at SnapNames because they control the domain. It is your first and best chance of obtaining the domain.

The biggest downsides are, 1) The existing registrant can still renew the domain, and will be motivated to do so if they see it has value. 2) It is a Public Auction, so you can be outbid by anyone joining the Auction.

The biggest upsides are, 1) You sidestep the Pending Delete Auction which is open to everyone (including Dropcatch/HugeDomains. More on them later) 2) You retain the original registration date (which I like personally. YMMV)


PENDING DELETE DOMAIN AUCTIONS

A Pending Delete Auction is an Auction for a domain which has entered the Pending Delete stage of it's current registration. Almost dead and dropped.

Domains enter Pending Delete stage 75 days after expiry (46-75 days is the Redemption Grace Period, in ICANN speak). There is no coming back from Pending Delete. The domain will delete 5 days after it enters Pending Delete and will be available for re-registration the next day (day 6 after entering Pending Delete or 81 days after expiry).

These Auctions begin when the Domain hits Pending Delete status. It is a free-for-all when a domain drops. The company with the best drop catching system usually wins most drop-caches. This is DropCatch with over 500 registrars knocking on the Registry's door.

The main venues for these Auctions are DropCatch, SnapNames, NameJet. There are a miriad of other competitors, but they are only bit-players. Bit players ocassionally get lucky and capture Pending Delete domains. Usually (not always) the domains nobody else wants.

There are no official statistics, but DropCatch probably captures at least 50% of all drop-caught domains. It could be a lot more. they are the Goliath of Pending Delete Auctions. The reason for this is mainly because their sister company, HugeDomains, wants to snap up all dropping domains which have any value, and to place them on their own Domain Marketplace for sale. Partnering with Dropcatch has, to date, been a very successful strategy for them. But we cannot see if this is profitable or not for them.

The previous Goliaths were SnapNames/NameJet, who held the position now held by DropCatch.

It goes without saying. If you are serious at wanting a domain, you should be backordering it at all 3 of these companies. backorders are free. You only pay if you win the domain. If you are the only backorderer at the capturing company, you win the domain outright.

Now this is where it become interesting because of the different policies of DropCatch to SnapNames/NameJet relating to more than one backorderer.

For SnapNames/Namejet, if there is more than backorder placed at their venue and they capture the domain, then the domain goes into a three day Private Auction. Highest bid wins the domain.

For DropCatch, if there is more than one backorder placed on a domain at their venue, and they capture the domain, then the domain goes into a 3 day Public Auction. Where anybody can bid on the domain.

Because everyone is used to the old system at SnapNames/NameJet where a domain goes to a Private Auction, they reel at the though that anybody can bid on a drop-catch with multiple bidders, if it is caught by Dropcatch. they feel cheated. But it is only the marketplace at work. Of course a Private Auction is preferred because the domain has fewer bidders, not everyone. But with DropCatch capturing the lions share of all drop-caught domains, they have chosen to hold Public Auctions, where prices are naturally bid higher than at Private Auctions. Some say too high. But in general, it is only being bid up to a price where another Domainer can still sell the domain and make a profit, in their opinion. Of course opinions between domainers vary about the price.

There is a twist to this DropCatch dropcatching. As as sop to other domainers, they have stated that HugeDomains would not be permitted to participate in any Dropcatch Auction. This of course is fine, until they are being bid up by other domainers What is not so good, is they recently introduced a Discount Club, where HugeDomains have priority over any backorder. this is not good at all, as users of this service see most of their backorders being captured by HugeDomains. IMHO, you should never use their Discount Club and only participate in their full price backordering, which cuts out HugeDomains access to the domain. You still need to participate in the Public Auction if there was more than one backorder at DropCatch, if you want to capture the domain. The exception only would be if you are placed at the highest bidder and nobody else bid on the domain, which is quite rare.

Personally, I see DropCatch's method of doing business as a paradigm shift. It's not going away. Either embrace it or hate it. It will make flips harder because of the higher pricing, and will usher in longer hold times for domains. I actually like the fact I can poke my finger in the eye of HugeDomains (our biggest single competitor) by placing a full price backorder on DropCatch. Even if I don't bid on any auction, and I just take the captures where I was the only backorderer. It's peanuts in the big scale of things, but it gives me satisfaction

For domains which are not worth the $59 dropcatch fee. I usually backorder at Pheenix. They capture some but not all. With their recently added 100 drop-catch Registrars, they should become more competitive. But they have announced the same policy of as DropCatch of Public Auctions on domains with more than 1 backorder placed on their system, from Sept 19th 2015. This won't suit everybody. But I believe it is the wave of the future. Some day, all dropcatchers will operate like this. IMHO.

CONCLUSION

For Pre-Release domains I only bid at the Auction House which has the domain up for Auction. Nowhere else works. GoDaddy, or SnapNames, or NameJet, or if the domain is registered at a Registrar which runs it's own Auction House, eg Dynadot.

For Pending Delete domains which have value and desirability, I backorder at all three major players DropCatch, SnapNames, NameJet. For domains which I think won't get picked up by any of these three, I use the cheaper drop-catcher, Pheenix. The hundred registrars they just added will make them very competitive in this section. I might even add them to my top three and see how many they catch

See more about DropCatch and Domainers/HugeDomains backorders below.

 

[Kate]

I would vote for making this thread a sticky...

 

[Name Trader]

There is a double-edged sword placing your backorder at DropCatch. If you are the only backorderer, then great. You win the domain. But if there is more than one backorderer then it goes to Public Auction which can be bid on by anybody, and the price usually goes up.

Is there a strategy to defeat this? Well no. Declining to place a backorder at DropCatch, and relying solely on SnapNames/NameJet capturing the domain will put you in an inferior position to capture the domain. Which is only recoverable, in the case where DropCatch captures the domain, and if there are 2 or more backorders on DropCatch and you can then duke it out with everybody else in DropCatch's Public Auction.

This is why you should backorder the domain at all 3 drop-catchers. It puts you in the best position to capture the domain. However, realistically, if you don't backorder the domain at DropCatch, you will find, if DropCatch captures the domain, you will either lose the domain because there was only one other backorder at DropCatch, or you will lose the domain because you didn't bid high enough in the Public Auction.

Also, you need to consider what happens if nobody places a backorder at DropCatch? Then DropCatch catches the domain for HugeDomains, in most cases. Two other possibilities are 1) It's a crap name nobody wants, and it drops, or 2) SnapNames/NameJet capture the domain either because nobody wanted it at DropCatch, or they actually beat DropCatch to the domain. Yes this does happen occassionally.

As an aside. You will have noticed that HugeDomains gobbles up a significant number of dropping domains and put them up for sale at fixed prices on their website. Any full priced DropCatch backorders means HugeDomains are precluded from going after that domain, because of a conflict of interest (same owner who is selling drop-catching to third party's). So your full priced bid at DropCatch prevents this from happening, even if you don't capture the domain outright or at auction. Plus one, for the little guy Not to feel guilty about this because it's only the free market at work. Someone other than HugeDomains captured the domain.

However. I am not suggesting you place a backorder for a domain on DropCatch which you have no intention of honoring. This will quickly get you banned from DropCatch Auctions, and would be folly, considering their dominance in the marketplace.

 

[Name Trader]

Because I am unfamiliar with the Blog Section. What benefit does it bring? I thought I posted this in the most appropriate section. I don't really see myself as a blogger.

 

[Name Trader]

Thanks for this post.
I also discoverred tht Dropcatch is a good catcher now.
But there are others lik Pool.com, domainmonster.co.uk, Eurodns, NAMEBRIGHT etc...
A bit slow is godaddy, but I did some backorders that succeeded for me.

This post has some warped thinking.

1) Firstly you are mixing up GoDaddy Pre-Release Auctions with the rest doing Pending Delete Auctions.

2) Pool had announced more than a year ago that they were giving up on Pending Delete Auctions, but are still operating. The reason they were giving up is because they are useless at it, and probably losing money.

3) DropCatch have been phenomenal from the get go.

4) NameBright are DropCatch's Registrar. They don't participate in the auctions.

5) All you mentioned are bit players except DropCatch (the biggest Pending Delete drop-catcher) and GoDaddy (the biggest Pre-Release Auctioneer).

 

[davidc1]

you can request auth codes thru icaan

https://forms.icann.org/en/resources/compliance/complaints/transfer/form

 

[Name Trader]

@pozitronic - At this point if the original owner wants to reactivate this domain, they will need to pay eNom's reactivation fee. From memory that's about $260. So the likelihood of them doing this is very slim. You are correct about missing out on the Pre-Release auction. But you should watch it carefully for 1 week after the 45 days to be absolutely sure it was not picked up in the Pre-Release auction because NameJet might just be waiting for payment to clear. Yes again, the next step is the Drop Catching/Pending Delete Auction.

You are correct again (good you actually been reading and learning), you should drop your backorder and only backorder at the last moment. Not knowing the desirability of the domain, but assuming it did not get picked up at Pre-Release, I assume that (generally) it is not a top desirable domain (not always the case).

Your best strategy, since you are already prepared to pay for a backorder, would be to place a full backorder at DropCatch, SnapNames, NameJet, and Pheenix. Pheenix being the least likely to capture the domain, and DropCatch the most likely to capture the domain. If more than 1 person backorders the domain anywhere you have backordered, you will meet stiff competion at any of these Drop-Catchers in the pursuing auction. Worst at DropCatch. But if you are the only backorderer, it won't matter.You win.

Overall, I think you have to backorder at DropCatch because they are the most successful DropCatcher. Because if it goes to auction, and you haven't a backorder, you've lost out.

A lot of your strategy might depend how much you want the domain. The above assumes you WANT the domain. You might pursue a more risky strategy, if it is only a so, so domain for you.

 

[Name Trader]

Usually, I'm tucked up, fast asleep in bed at the time that .com domains drop. Approx 2am my time. So I always put in my highest bid I want to pay, or in the case of domains I consider have a chance of not being picked up, I place an order with Pheenix. It's not a scientific number. But I's guess I capture approx 50-60% of the domains I backorder at Pheenix. Between 0 and 3 backorders per day. Probably 80-90% of the domains I don't win are caught by DropCatch.

This is just the preamble. Today I was up when drop came around. As always I check to see what Pheenix caught and who caught the others. At 2:40am, I noticed one of my backorders wasn't registered. So I duly registered it. So my handreg, which included the time to put in a new credit card, beat a Pheenix Backorder. This is shades of inefficiency usually attributed to GoDaddy Backorders. Which shouldn't be happening with the number of backorder registrars Pheenix own.

I mention this because it surprised me. I don't mind the premium I pay over regfee to capture domains while I'm asleep. But I was not aware Pheenix was so inefficient in capturing their backorders. Maybe it was an exception. So I just mention it as part of my Pheenix DropCatching experience.

 

[Name Trader]

My strategy as of today.

Jump to the last paragraph, for the summary.

If I think a domain will definitely be backordered by DropCatch or SnapNames/NameJet. I place a full-priced backorder at DropCatch. This is not so many domains, because I try to concentrate on domains which will not be backordered at these drop-catchers. I probably backorder 1 domain there, maybe once in every two weeks.

My results have been mixed. Just a couple of days ago, I saw a domain with a keyword I wanted, which I have seen HugeDomains capture every other domain using that keyword, in the last couple of months. So I backordered it at DropCatch. I was pleasantly surprised I won the backorder without any competition. Which probably means my backorder, took HugeDomains out of the picture for that domain. As DropCatch's policy states. This small win gave me immense pleasure

But mostly, there is more than 1 backorder, and I lose the domain in the auction, because there were 2 backorderers, and a public auction. And the auction goes beyond my price cap.

I don't bid on SnapNames/NameJet. If I bid for a full price backorder, it's always at DropCatch. But I would still advise to bid at both DropCatch AND SnapNames if you really want the domain. SnapNames can, on rare occasions, beat DropCatch.

As an aside. I have tried David's PRnator service, who is a SnapNames Reseller backorder service. Cost is 30 Euros (approx $32). I've used it twice. Both times it has captured the domain. These were domains which I thought might be below DropCatch's high standards, but possibly could have been picked-up by SnapNames/Namejet, which I wanted. This is not a full review of David's service, but I didn't like that you can only top up amounts of 100 Euros. This means after 3 purchases, you have 10 Euros to refund of top up another 100 Euros. It would be better if he change the top-up to 90 Euros, so that after every three purchases, your balance is completely extinguished. The only other thing was, he pushes the domains to you with privacy enabled, with his privacy details. But NetSol's Account says your privacy is not enabled. And it's a PITA to get NetSol to remove that privacy. It can be done. But if he changed his standard operation to push without privacy, all that would not be necessary. His service is not fully automated. You have to email him the domain(s) you wish to backorder. I think the dropcatch pecking order is DropCatch, SnapNames/NameJet, PRnator, Dynadot/Pheenix, in that order. Of the services I've mentioned in this thread.

Well that was a lot of words, for something I don't normally use.

My main focus, is the bottom feeding of domains not backordered at DC/SN/NJ. I backorder both at Dynadot and Pheenix. Now that Pheenix have bought, what was it, 500 more registrars, which I don't know if they've been deployed yet. Pheenix now captures the odd domain, when before they bought these 500 new registrars, they were being whitewashed by Dynadot. I would say, from my experience, of which I don't have any deep knowledge of how it works. That Dynadot has a much better system in catching these dropping domains, with their dozen or so registrars compared to, what is it now, 800 or so, for Pheenix. I thought it was whoever got contact with the Registry first wins the domain. So the more the registrars you have the greater chances you have. But there must be some other factors at work here, that I am not aware of. There must be some way they prioritize their contacts with the Registry (thinking aloud)

So in summary. Most of what I have written in my first and subsequent posts remains true today. If I really want a domain, I backorder it at DropCatch (but I'd recommend also to use SnapNames). Although the chances are slim that I will capture the domain outright. Otherwise I backorder at Dynadot and Pheenix. And get beaten by mostly DropCatch or SnapNames, if my assessment was wrong. I would say my success rate is approx 50% plus/minus 10%.

 

[Name Trader]

PENDING DELETE DOMAIN AUCTIONS (update July 2018)

As far as capturing dropping domains. there are today only 3 sizable players. DropCatch, NameJet, SnapNames. There might be other companies who claim to be competitive. But they are still bit players. In fact, the resources behind DropCatch are so large and overwhelming, that they dominate the market today, July 2018. And probably have been in that position from the time of my first post on this subject.

My own personal strategy has changed slightly. If there is a dropping domain I want. I go straight ahead and backorder it at DropCatch for $59. $20 cheaper than their closest other rivals. Most times, I have been lucky that I won the domain outright. But if it goes to auction, because of other backorders. I generally lose in the auction. But this has been an excellent strategy for me. Backordering it at DropCatch has 3 distinct advantages. 1) HugeDomains cannot particpate, even if they wanted too, and 2) The main competition of NameJet/SnapNames has also been eliminated. 3) Maybe nobody else has thought to backorder at DropCatch for whatever reason

I would also say that there are some great dropping domains, mostly gobbled up by HugeDomains, because nobody else has backordered the domains at DropCatch, like I'm suggesting, and do. If you look at the quality of domains which have more than 2 bidders and have gone to auction. They really aren't that great, IMHO. Of course there will always be exceptions. They appear to have a distinct Chinese flavor to them. IMHO. So there are a great number of dropping domains, caught by HugeDomains, because nobody else has backordered them at DropCatch.

Just my 2c of wisdom on dropping domain strategies in July 2018

 

[ulterios]

Because I am unfamiliar with the Blog Section. What benefit does it bring? I thought I posted this in the most appropriate section. I don't really see myself as a blogger.

Well what you wrote would be great for the blog section. It would have been a nice change up from the norm. It was well written and informative and those are great to have in a blog post. I don't see myself as one but I do it daily on my sites.

Maybe next one you can post there.

Benefit is it will bring exposure to you and what ever you have in your sig. Marketing is why many of the others do it.

Either way, it was a real nice article.

 

[davidc1]

How's that you can't find? Just take amy drop list, from DD, NJ, etc.

It's usually like 80-130k drops every day, com + net + org + info + co + cc + biz + name + *.uk



Where do you have these stats from? I highly highly doubt there are 4k domains dropping daily worth backordering.

using expireddomains.net , caught section, filter by registrar name

 

[Name Trader]

When I said not many .com's there and mostly .io I'm referring to those domains captured with more than two bidders. Of course Dynadot have the same dropping domains as the other companies. The price for a com dropcatch is $24.99. Which is considerably cheaper than elsewhere, but you should understand that those dropcatchers with bigger resources, will catch most of the drops. But to be fair, they do catch a number of domains which you might expect to be picked up elsewhere. You don't pay unless it's captured. So no harm in trying them. it's worked out for me on occasions.

 

[xull]

@stub Thank you. A very good reading.

 

[PAINC]

Best of luck with that one. Probably a pretty good domain

And thank you for sharing your strategy.
Yes a pretty good one, I could not help laughing at my self yesterday thinking I might be the only one.

 

[campout]

If you place a backorder with GoDaddy for a GoDaddy-registered domain before or while it is going through the GoDaddy auctions process, the backorder will automatically count as an immediate $10 bid on the domain. This bid will be publicly visible to everyone, and this will likely attract other bidders far in advance of the auction end, that may not have noticed the name otherwise. There is no benefit to doing this

It's such an awful strategy that it's hard to believe anyone dumb enough to employ it would have even $10 to their name.

I know your comment was made 5 months ago but I happened to be re-browsing this thread and couldn't resist giving my 2 cents. I just do not understand why so many early, initial bids occur on these names.

 

[Name Trader]

Recent News

Pheenix.com dropped most of their Registrars, and so are no longer competitive at drop catching domains. So please ignore any comments about regarding Pheenix in this thread.

NameCatch on the other hand have added another 500 or so in the last year. They were the biggest Drop-Catcher on the planet even before they almost doubled their number of registrars. but they are now capturing maybe up to 70% of all drop catches, with their approx 1200-1300 (Too many to count) registrars. Making them even more essential not to ignore them.

Because of this. I rarely consider any cheap drop-catchers any more. $59 (DropCatch) are about the lowest I consider paying these days. The thing being, that if they capture the domain (and they often do), if nobody else has also ordered it at DropCatch. You win the domain outright. And if other people are still trying to capture at any other cheap registrar. Their chances are slim. This is how pervasive DropCatch have become with their drop-catching.

 

[werty]

After how long ? This was a while back

I think their account funds are fully refundable at any time. So you can request refund for your unused funds.

 

[Name Trader]

OK. I just have a little belated announcement about Dynadot drop-catches. For some time now (maybe up to a year), if 2 or more people backorder the domain at Dynadot, they used to go to a private auction. Nowadays all domains caught with 2 or more backorderers all go to public auctions (ala DropCatch). You won't learn much from watching these auctions. But you might see a domain you might want to bid on. Not many .com's there. They mostly seem to be .io domains.

 

[Name Trader]

So both GoDaddy's Expiring auctions and Closeout auctions occur during the 0-45 day Pre-Release Stage? Apologies for the questions, just trying to make sure I've understood the stages properly so I have a better idea of what happens when.

Only the Closeouts occur during the period BEFORE the domain is referred back to the Registry (Day 46). A Backorder, can be placed any time, but usually would be from Day 46 to the date it is available for Re-Registration. Bids on Closeouts are a completely different order to a BackOrder. But as I have said, GoDaddy only wins BackOrders after every Drop-Catcher has had their chance, because GoDaddy do not allocate enough resources (registrars), like DropCatch (some 2500 registrars, from memory). In my experiences in the past, a GoDaddy BackOrder cannot even beat a Hand-Registration once the domain becomes available again. They are pretty much worthless for most dropping domains. They are only useful for people who prefer not to Hand-Register a domain. IMHO.

 

[Hybrid Names]

Thanks for this post. It's always good to learn from the senior

 

[ulterios]

Excellent post stub. Very informative and will especially help new domainers that aren't familiar with the whole process.

I do have one question for you. Why didn't you post this in the blog section of this site? This would be a great blog post.

 

[Branded Domains]

very Informative ....thanks for throwing some light on my mind

 

[AndyM]

Great thread stub. Thankyou

 

[Vinod R]

Thank You for taking the time to post this.