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Strategy for Expiring/Deleting Domains

Labeled as strategy in Domain Expiration and Domain Drop Catching started by stub, Sep 9, 2015.

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  1. fitkhan

    fitkhan Established Member

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    @stub Thank you very much for such valuable information. I am a newbie and I have 1 question in my mind i.e

    Why domainers don't pick their favt. domain in the PRE-RELEASE DOMAIN AUCTIONS instead of trying to get it in the PENDING DELETE AUCTIONS? (With so many risks involved of loosing it in Pending delete auctions?) Why all good domain names are not picked in Pre Release phase and why they go to the Pending Delete phase? With so many people scanning the lists all the time.
     
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  2. Kate

    Kate Domainosaurus Rex VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Not all registrars do prerelease domains, instead they just drop the unrenewed domains. So prerelease is not always an option.
     
  3. stub

    stub Top Member PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    As @Kate explained, not all registrars hold pre-release auctions or have an arrangement with SnapNames or NameJet for them to run the pre-release auction on their behalf. But most of the large Registrars do.

    Also I agree with you that even a half-a$$ed domainer would prefer to bid in a pre-release auction than to wait for the uncertainly involved with bidding in an expired domain auction, where the dynamics are basically stacked against them.
     
  4. fitkhan

    fitkhan Established Member

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    Thanks Kate & Stub for your replies. Got you now.

    If i find a nice domain name in pre release auctions, unnoticed by fellow domainers. Now placing bid on that domain will alert all the domainers, they might place bid as well and the auction may go out of my price range. domainer111 explained it in his post. Is it possible to place bid at the very last minute so that it is un noticed at the very last moment and in that way will i get it easily?
     
  5. stub

    stub Top Member PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Yes. That's the strategy most of us use. It's a bit risky leaving it to the very last minute. The server time might be in advance of your time. But 2 or 3 minutes, is often ok, if here are no previous bids.
     
  6. fitkhan

    fitkhan Established Member

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    So this strategy will work.....
    Perfect....
    Thanks a lot Stub...
     
  7. stub

    stub Top Member PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    There is always a risk. You just have to minimize the risk the best you can. But bidding on Pre-Release Domains, is a lot better/safer than bidding on Pending Delete Domains.
     
  8. fitkhan

    fitkhan Established Member

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    Yes i got you. I have found a couple of names on Namejet Pre Release List and I am waiting for the right time to place bid. Where can i find GD Pre-Release Domains list?
     
  9. stub

    stub Top Member PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    All GoDaddy expiring domain auctions are Pre-Release auctions. Just do an advanced search and tick Expiring Auctions and Closeouts with any other criteria you might want to use to limit your search.
     
  10. pozitronic

    pozitronic New Member

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    Awesome Post.

    I saw someone else have a similar issue as me for a domain which is in "Reactivation Period". Here's a snippet from the whois data:

    Registrar URL: enom
    Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2016-05-0816:46:10.00Z
    Admin Name: REACTIVATION PERIOD

    As of writing this post, it expired 47 days ago. Let's assume the original owner decides not to reactive it. If I am to understand correctly, I've missed the boat of getting the domain at an Auction House (enom uses namejet), so now I will need to go use a dropcatcher once it goes into Pending Zone. Correct?

    I have a backorder on namejet - I might as well remove it, and move straight to dropcatcher correct?

    And also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I should I wait to register the domain at the last minute as to not attract attention to it? What would be the best strategy in this situation I'm in anyone?

    Thanks

     
  11. stub

    stub Top Member PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    @pozitronic - At this point if the original owner wants to reactivate this domain, they will need to pay eNom's reactivation fee. From memory that's about $260. So the likelihood of them doing this is very slim. You are correct about missing out on the Pre-Release auction. But you should watch it carefully for 1 week after the 45 days to be absolutely sure it was not picked up in the Pre-Release auction because NameJet might just be waiting for payment to clear. Yes again, the next step is the Drop Catching/Pending Delete Auction.

    You are correct again (good you actually been reading and learning), you should drop your backorder and only backorder at the last moment. Not knowing the desirability of the domain, but assuming it did not get picked up at Pre-Release, I assume that (generally) it is not a top desirable domain (not always the case).

    Your best strategy, since you are already prepared to pay for a backorder, would be to place a full backorder at DropCatch, SnapNames, NameJet, and Pheenix. Pheenix being the least likely to capture the domain, and DropCatch the most likely to capture the domain. If more than 1 person backorders the domain anywhere you have backordered, you will meet stiff competion at any of these Drop-Catchers in the pursuing auction. Worst at DropCatch. But if you are the only backorderer, it won't matter.You win.

    Overall, I think you have to backorder at DropCatch because they are the most successful DropCatcher. Because if it goes to auction, and you haven't a backorder, you've lost out.

    A lot of your strategy might depend how much you want the domain. The above assumes you WANT the domain. You might pursue a more risky strategy, if it is only a so, so domain for you.
     
  12. pozitronic

    pozitronic New Member

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    Stub - you are helping me BIG time. Thanks for the clarification. I've removed my backorder from namejet in the meantime. I will put it back (along with dropcatch, snapnames etc). The question is - when?

    The expiration per Whois: Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2016-05-0816:46:10.00Z

    How do I time a few minutes before the 5 day delete zone? is it based on the expiration time?

    Let's assume it enters the Pending Delete Phase is the 25th June (today).

    Will the whois information also stamp it with a time that it went into Pending Delete? And if yes, do I use that to determine when I should I backorder?

    I'm assuming I'd need to do it like 5-10 minutes before, and that I would need to set it up on all three websites: dropcatch, snapnames, namejet, pheenix, and only submit those backorders a few minutes earlier?
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2016
  13. stub

    stub Top Member PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I think you need to read each DropCatchers terms as to when their bidding closes for Pending Delete bids. Bid about 15 minutes before that time.
     
  14. pozitronic

    pozitronic New Member

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    Got it. Will look into it.

    I'm confused why people hate dropcatch more than say jetname when both systems use bidding?
     
  15. stub

    stub Top Member PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    It's because DropCatch catches probably 70% (maybe more) of all caught domains. Mostly for HugeDomains.com their sister company. They are in direct competition with us for every dropping domain. They also have the most aggressive bidders, and more of them. It's because DropCatch bidding is open to every Tom Dick or Harry. Even people who haven't place backorder on the domain can place bids (which corrects what I said above but cannot edit). Not so at NameJet.

    So to be clear. If you place a full backorder on the domain at DropCatch, you prevent them attempting to catch the domain for HugeDomains, and you might be lucky enough to be the only backorderer. In which case you win the domain outright. But if you don't bid on the domain, DC are quite likely to backorder the domain for HD, or there might be only 1 other backorderer. In both cases you lose the domain. If there are 2 or more backorderers, then you can join the auction, even if you didn't backorder the domain with them. Too many if's there. Just be sure to place a full priced backorder at DropCatch.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2016
  16. golan

    golan GolanMedia.com Gold Account VIP

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    Is it still reasonable to backorder both at Snapnames and Namejet, since they teamed up about a month ago?

    Also, i've seen a few good domains caught by Pool lately. They are back in the big game?
     
  17. stub

    stub Top Member PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    @golan - It's true that you no longer need to backorder at both SnapNames and NameJet because they have joined forces. But I have no experience of how that is working. Anyone?

    I have no knowledge about Pool being back in the game or not. I don't think they ever entirely went away. They were still taking backorders, when they were supposed to have stopped. I'd call those captures a flash in the pan, until and unless I see more of that happening. I think they don't have the infrastructure to beat the four (maybe three now) biggest dropcatchers..
     
  18. rajbirkohli

    rajbirkohli Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Thanks for the detailed info. its was very informative. Learnt alot today. :xf.wink:
     
  19. offthehandle

    offthehandle . Gold Account VIP

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    Your ideas of scouring the pre-release lists, preordering, etc. is a good idea and interesting, I did abit last night but not enough to know or try out your approach yet. Really a good thread you have here.

    I would like to add in my own research now several weeks, that if you are ambitious, and you comb the pending delete lists you will find "secondary" two word TLD domains available even a few days after they dropped. They may not be the best, but certainly are not bad- I posted a few yesterday as a contribution here- maybe some are sellable with some niche marketing efforts.

    Let's face it, like all business' you should find your own niche. You either can be a big fish in a small pond (best), or a small fish in a small pond (your funds will increase with sales success), but DropCatch is a Big Fish in a Big Pond. Like it or not, they do get the vast majority of drops as stated either for themselves or on behalf of their customers, they have invested heavily in their infrastructure to do so which is costly and the barrier to entry is huge and I respect them for that and I have used their services, and so far have been happy with them and hope that continues. I only wish that they had a resale discount that was more generous such that they gave financial incentive to those of us actively willing to market and broker domains. My feeling is that the more salespeople you have, the more sales and of course all are independent of your company- no employees. I listened to Frank Schilling's interview on DNW about his salespeople and their good compensation. With my other businesses', I used to advertise all my inventory via snail mail and fax specifically out to all sales reps I knew worldwide and offered a minimum 20% discount for resale and it was great- the more eyes and ears out there the better. Depending on the deal, I even offered a better split on the profit. Perhaps their sales leads are sufficient with their methods- fair enough and by the way I have to add which are really cool- by attaching their name to all the Drops they get and that info is posted on Whois and moving the names into NameBright with the default advertising banner, to the "Oops you are too late" message once they catch a name that has expired.... it's all a well thought out strategy and it impresses me. I don't know how many active leads they get nor salespeople, all I know is it took too long to answer the phone when I called. Network Solutions too, has a lot of infrastructure and they get quite a few drops, not sure if for their own sales or their customers.

    It seems to me that some of the smaller buyers here should look at communicating with brokering names, the ones that "got away", so to speak if you have some personal expertise in that area.
     
  20. stub

    stub Top Member PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    @offthehandle - It a legitimate business model to scour the dropping lists for domain which didn't get picked up by any drop-catcher. But it's a thankless task. Talk about looking for a needle in a haystack! The needle is too big to describe your chances of success :) I refuse to do this. I spend too much energy on the drop process already to have any time left to do that. For these types of domains, I prefer to pay Phoenix's Super Saver 14.95 price. The 50% premium over the regfee is worth it IMHO. Compared to the time spent to do this.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2016
  21. stub

    stub Top Member PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    A year on. And what has changed? SnapNames and NameJet have joined forces. Today, you only need to backorder at one of these services. Effectively consolidating the industry a tad. Other than that. The advice give here is as good today, as it was written 1 year ago.
     
  22. DonMiMiL

    DonMiMiL Established Member

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    Thanks a lot ;) Very nice details ;)
     
  23. stub

    stub Top Member PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Usually, I'm tucked up, fast asleep in bed at the time that .com domains drop. Approx 2am my time. So I always put in my highest bid I want to pay, or in the case of domains I consider have a chance of not being picked up, I place an order with Pheenix. It's not a scientific number. But I's guess I capture approx 50-60% of the domains I backorder at Pheenix. Between 0 and 3 backorders per day. Probably 80-90% of the domains I don't win are caught by DropCatch.

    This is just the preamble. Today I was up when drop came around. As always I check to see what Pheenix caught and who caught the others. At 2:40am, I noticed one of my backorders wasn't registered. So I duly registered it. So my handreg, which included the time to put in a new credit card, beat a Pheenix Backorder. This is shades of inefficiency usually attributed to GoDaddy Backorders. Which shouldn't be happening with the number of backorder registrars Pheenix own.

    I mention this because it surprised me. I don't mind the premium I pay over regfee to capture domains while I'm asleep. But I was not aware Pheenix was so inefficient in capturing their backorders. Maybe it was an exception. So I just mention it as part of my Pheenix DropCatching experience.
     
  24. andromeida

    andromeida Established Member

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    Thank you stub. Good thread
     
  25. stub

    stub Top Member PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I just noticed also that Dynadot also captured a domain I had backordered at Pheenix. Although oddities like this should not happen because of the number of servers Pheenix uses compared to Dynadot, these things can be expected sometimes. But this coming on top of not beating my handreg recently. Had me test it out. So I have 8 domains backordered at Pheenix and Dynadot in the next drop. I'll report how it goes tomorrow.
     

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