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SAV auctions advice: DON'T BID against user s_n...

Located in Domain Registrar Reviews, started by HDmarketing, Jun 29, 2020 at 8:20 PM

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  1. HDmarketing

    HDmarketing Top Contributor VIP

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    Hi all, this is quite a specific issue but will interest users engaged in SAV auctions.

    It happened several times already and from what I understood from SAV support, nothing will be done to prevent it, so I might as well make it public, it may help some of you.

    s_n_7cf63f, one of the frequent bidders on SAV auctions, defaults payment lately. So don't enter a bid war with him because it will only lead to the following situations where you overpay for the name:

    1. You loose the bid war and end up second behind him. What happens in this case is that when his payment method is charged and fails, you, as second highest bid, are charged immediately. You win the name , but at a high price.

    2. You win the bid war and end up paying a high amount. But you could have paid way less.

    Here is what you should do instead when you find that user s_n_7cf63f is the current highest bidder:

    1. Bid the lowest amount possible allowed by the bidding system (usually = "highest bid + $1").

    2a. If you are then highest bidder, don't enter a bid war if user s_n_7cf63f tries to beat you. Let him add $1 and wait for the end of the auction. You should end up with the name. (True on 29th of june 2020)

    2b. If you are immediately beaten by a s_n_7cf63f proxy bid, don't enter a bid war. Just wait the end of the auction.

    You understood that to win you should make sure you are second behind s_n_7cf63f and not try to outbid him.

    ===

    A bit of background: got caught up in bid wars in at least two auctions (probably more, but didn't document it back then).
    Last time was last week when I ended up overpaying for two domains on the same day. That's when I realized that there was a repeating scheme.

    Some would say it's all part of the game, but I felt cheated because had I known in time that the user had defaulted on the first domain, I would NEVER had entered the second bid war!!!

    I also feel that SAV could easily act in the case of this specific user by banning him (temporarily) from auctions. I know it's possible because... it was done to me! During the first weeks I used SAV, I had MANY problems with the charging of my visa card. Was banned from auction quite fast!!!!!
    Could never sort it out, had to take a new card with a different bank just to pay SAV... (saw on different threads many users had similar payment problems).


    @Nick R See below for suggestions on how to change that.

    Your support made me understand that user s_n_7cf63f was acting fair and no special measures needed to be taken. I was even answered that I was outbid by a proxy bid (which shows a complete misunderstanding of the problem raised by the way...)

    Shouldn't you implement a better system to take in account these situations?

    Two suggestions :
    - relaunch auction erasing the defaulting user from the bid history.
    or
    - In case of a duel ending with the winner defaulting, charge the second bidder only the amount of his first bid at the start of the bid war.

    Don't know if it's worth the pain for you implementing all that, maybe the ban would simplify things.

    In the meantime, my advice to all users is, you can win against s_n_7cf63f if you act like mentionned above. (disclaimer: True today, will not be true anymore if the user uses a valid payment method).

    Good luck to you all.
    Hagop
     
    The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
  2. NameDeck

    NameDeck Top Contributor VIP

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    100% agree. The fact that they don't do this leaves them vulnerable to shillbidding.

    Since they don't have that much of a track record I'd be cautious anyway.
     
  3. Nick R

    Nick R VIP Member VIP

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    Thanks for the feedback Hagop. We have had conversations with s_n_7cf63f in the past but have now permanently banned them from bidding on any future auctions.
     
  4. MasterOfMyDomains

    MasterOfMyDomains Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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  5. HDmarketing

    HDmarketing Top Contributor VIP

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    Thank you for taking action @Nick R ! I feel as a customer listened to and that somewhat compensates for the money that I overspent on the auctions.
     
  6. kamcreation

    kamcreation Established Member

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    s_n_7cf63f has drove the auction prices up for me too few times, @Nick R all his bids should be erased and auctions restarted (if he has no intentions to pay why let him make fake bids)
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020 at 11:13 AM
  7. NameDeck

    NameDeck Top Contributor VIP

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    Anybody knows about domains he actually did pay for? Would be interesting to know who is behind the username to make sure these are just incidents.
     
  8. NameDrop

    NameDrop Established Member

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    Same thing happened to me a few times, so I just stopped doing their auctions.
     
  9. Recons.Com

    Recons.Com Top Contributor VIP

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    So, let me get it straight.

    The same guy has been driving auction prices on purpose. Even after multiple complaints did not get him banned, until it was made public here.

    Let me repeat: the guy kept cancelling the bids, the platform kept the guy and also all the profits, as they were charging the full amount (winner minus $1). And it was done repeatedly to multiple users even on this thread.

    My opinion: shill bidding with full knowledge and the benefit of the auction house = shill bidding authorized by the house.
     
  10. Samer

    Samer Top Contributor VIP Blue Account

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    At least HD pays...

    Samer
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020 at 11:34 AM
  11. NameDrop

    NameDrop Established Member

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    It seems that way. I complained, and they told me the exact same thing they told @HDmarketing, and I continued to see the user bidding on multiple auctions. This was a while back.
     
  12. alcy

    alcy Top Contributor VIP

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    yea maybe he was friend of sav

    intentionally letting user drive up prices is pretty serious well.....scam

    and apparently he did scam many...to sav benefit
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020 at 11:45 AM
  13. Samer

    Samer Top Contributor VIP Blue Account

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    They just permanently banned how "friend"?

    Has damage been done? Too little too late...
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020 at 4:19 AM
  14. Recons.Com

    Recons.Com Top Contributor VIP

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    You don't know if they banned anyone. It is just a username. It takes seconds to create new one.

    That is if it was someone helping them. Could have been just an insider to help find the true max anyone is willing to pay for a name.
     
  15. Samer

    Samer Top Contributor VIP Blue Account

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    Can elaborate "conversations"..?

    Many said complaints' unheard.

    What _n_7cf63f's excuse? Clearly, multiple offender.

    Samer
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020 at 11:56 AM
  16. Arfy

    Arfy Aphrodite.com Shrew.com VIP

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    Hold on, if shill bidder SN_... has bidded up to $5000 for a name and you were second at $4999, and there was a third at $199, why should you be charged $4999? In my opinion, there was no such bidder as SN_ as he failed to pay and so you should be charged as if you are bidding against person 3 and therefore pay $200.

    Yes, I worked in technical audit for a few years and put together remedial methodologies for many companies who need to reimburse customers. My opinion is that you should probably revisit all auctions SN_ has participated in and reimburse the second bidder using the model of 3rd bidder's highest bid +$1 - amount charged to second bidder due to failure of SN_.. to pay.

    @Nick R - Let me know if you need help with the above. I can suggest a methodology.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020 at 12:00 PM
  17. alcy

    alcy Top Contributor VIP

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    permanent ban aftr 5665655 complaints is not ban..its a laugh
     
  18. Recons.Com

    Recons.Com Top Contributor VIP

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    This is something used by default by any decent auction place.

    I bid for a name up to $xxxx and was charged only $338 by GD when the winner did not pay.

    These guys were openly profiting by duping their visitors. Nick just admitted to the full knowledge of the fact as he had multiple conversations with the violator and never cared to ban or refund.

    @Nick R

    Please disclose for the full transparency and to save any credibility, if still possible by answering this:

    1. How many total auctions were unpaid by this user? What was the total profit of SAV from these cancellations? If you don't know how to calculate this, the amount you charged to 2nd bidder minus the bid from the third bidder + minimum bid increment

    2. How many auctions was this bidder #2? How much did SAV benefit from those? To calculate, Deduct the #3 bidder's amount and add minimum bid increment

    3. Why you thought it was ok to keep this money?

    2
     
  19. HDmarketing

    HDmarketing Top Contributor VIP

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    @Nick R it would also be nice to take care of the current auctions where the banned user still appears:

    For exemple, in the case of WebTracker.co, right now if I want to bid, I have to enter $24. But I should be allowed to bid just above the next bidder ($13) since s_n_7cf... is banned.


    upload_2020-6-30_14-54-0.png
     
  20. NameDeck

    NameDeck Top Contributor VIP

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    How do you list domains for auction anyway? I don't see the option anywhere.
     
  21. Recons.Com

    Recons.Com Top Contributor VIP

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    This platform is a joke! Banned user still bidding and is allowed to have double of the next user...
     
  22. pb

    pb Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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  23. Nick R

    Nick R VIP Member VIP

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    Hello All,

    When we reviewed the bidding history of this bidder, we saw that the majority of the auctions they bid on complete as intended, with them as the high bidder successfully paying. We even reached out to them to confirm what we saw and verify the legitimacy of their bids, which we were able to do.

    However, because of this higher than acceptable payment issue, we have banned them from placing any bids on any additional auctions. Per our How Auctions Works page (https://www.sav.com/pages/how_auctions_work), if their payment method does not go through, the auction will immediately be awarded to the next highest bidder.

    In addition to this, we are going to do a code push later today to automatically ban any bidder with more than 2 declined high bids to prevent this in the future.

    Thank you again to Hagop for bring this to our attention and to everyone on this thread for the great feedback and suggestions. We will look into all of them and see what makes sense for us to implement in the future as well.
     
  24. NameDeck

    NameDeck Top Contributor VIP

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    I checked out about 13 auctions he was participating in. All following the same pattern. As soon as he joins he offers just over double of the current bid. There's definitely something off as on some auctions that just doesn't make sense.
     
  25. NameDeck

    NameDeck Top Contributor VIP

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    @Nick R you keep referring to them as 'they'. Any reason for that?
     

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