Payoneer Escrow to shut down. What are the alternatives?

[peace800]

As some of you will know Payoneer has announced that they will be closing their escrow business.

Now what are the alternatives for domainers apart from escrow. com. Particularly for large transactions?

 

[Crysis]

Look at wire fees at escrow.domains
Sedo fee is 15 EUR for SWIFT payout.

Sedo has its own escrow (External Transfer Service) which is this:
https://sedo.com/us/services/domain-transfer-service/external-transfer-order-page/

In addition to it, Sedo has also partnered with Escrow.Domains which is this:
https://sedo.com/us/services/domain-transfer-service/escrow/
https://domainnamewire.com/2017/05/23/sedo-adds-new-escrow-option-partnership-escrow-domains/

Both are DIFFERENT. I am not DEBATING about the price. I am also not saying Escrow.Domains is better than Sedo's own Escrow. IMO Sedo's own escrow (External Transfer Service) is better than Escrow.Domains. All I am saying is if someone does not want to use Sedo's own Escrow (for whatever reasons), they can consider Escrow.Domains.

 

[D Haynes]

Safefunds.com is another transaction platform.

 

[vincew]

Safefunds.com is another transaction platform.

I have used and recommend them too.

 

[tonyk2000]

In order to better understand what _really_ happened and why, a comment from @Brandon Abbey would be greatly appreciaded. I have a good imagination and I also follow all escrow.com (not payoneer escrow) unfortunate developements, so I have some ideas which I beleive are true, however I'd avoid posting "speculations" in a public forum, or any forum. What @Brandon Abbey can (and, hopefully, will) comment should be considered as an authoritative opinion, but even Brandon may not be allowed to post anything he likes or wants to share.

So, just a few predicitons for Q4 2018 and 2019. Sincerely hope that I'm wrong:

- Escrow.com will also close their doors earlier or later, or will be sold again.

- No U.S.-based escrow comany will be able provide online domain escrow services of a reasonable quality that domainers do expect (or, at least, not in a long run).

- Non-U.S.-based escrow companies will try to enter this market, or increase their existing presence. Good luck to them. They should not serve buyers/sellers from some U.S. states / with specific escrow (over)regulations / to remain more-or-less safe.

- Domain marketplaces will have to increase commissions to ~20% industry-wide, even if their current commission level is lower. They will also start avoiding using the term "escrow" more and more frequently in their ToS, FAQs and routine communications. Marketplaces will not go anywhere though, even U.S.-based, as their business model is in fact completely different (vs "escrow" in strictly legal sense of this term).

For the sake of clarity, by "escrow" I mean a company that either holds an escrow license issued by a competent authority somewhere, or is providing escrow services from such a country where this specific licensing does not exist or is not necessary (maybe even from U.S. where attorneys or lawyers are allowed to occasionally provide escrow services without extra licensing if it is not a main part of their business). Most domain markerplaces are not "escrow comanies" in this sense, even if they currently claim that they offer escrow services.

 

[Slanted]

Epik is a good alternative to escrow agents in general:

• More secure, since we actually take possession of both funds and domain.
• Escrow agencies don't really know who owns a domain after GDPR. As a registrar, we do.
• Regulated by ICANN and TLD registries, unlike escrow agencies.
• Cheaper than other marketplaces at 5%. Free (0%) if the funds are used at Epik (e.g. for renewals)
• By far the best monthly payment plans in the industry.

There are few creases I aim to iron out at Epik still. (I was hired as Director of Operations a year ago.) Genuinely, though, I question why anybody needs an escrow agent. After GDPR especially it's risky. And with all the delays and – now – the lack of competition to Escrow.com, why go through a third party? Why not use a reliable registrar / marketplace to deliver the domain?

See my comment at DNW:

https://domainnamewire.com/2018/07/10/payoneer-exits-the-escrow-business/

 

[tonyk2000]

@Slanted

Epik may be fine. But, For God's sake, please ask your Jessica to stop spamming. Example:

=====

This email will take only a moment of your time.

We have the domain <...> and are currently managing a process to sell or lease it. If you would like to find out more about this domain please contact us. We can then provide you with pricing details and options.

We look forward to hearing from you! Have a great day.

Regards,

Jessica Robison
Portfolio Services Team
Epik.com

=====

Also, there were emails where Jessica and/or her colleagues incorrectly guessed that I"m not going to renew this or that domain and offered to purchase it.

I'll gladly consider Epik for escrow needs. However, spamming history from Epik makes me worry, what if I start receiving more unwanted communications especially if I open an account, and, accordingly, will need to whitelist @ Epik.com in my email system?

Sorry if offtopic. Not completely offtopic though, as the thread explicitly refers to escrow alternatives. Epik offers an alternative. Which is fine. Epik is a large ICANN-accredited registrar and it makes me feel safe. Other issues are of trust, and one would reasonably guess that a trusted registrar / escrow should never send out unsolicited emails to begin with.

 

[Jackson Elsegood]

Hi Everyone,
I'm jumping into this thread late so there's a few open questions that need an answer.

Why would a buyer or seller use a professional escrow company like Escrow.com?
Escrow.com has been in the business of providing safe online transcations for nearly 20 years. We don't just say that our transactions are safe, our licenses guarantee it. Escrow means your funds are held in non-interest earning trust accounts, not invested back into the business or at risk on the stock market. We are audited regularly to make sure that the funds that we hold are being held as they should be. We also provide 100% protection against chargebacks which mean that if a payment is reversed, Escrow.com fights the credit card company, not the seller.

What is account verification?
We ask buyers and sellers in transactions exceeding $3,000 to provide some proof of identity (like a drivers license with name and address on it) to verify who they are. We do this because all money transmitters doing business in the US are required to verify the source and destination of funds by law (US PATRIOT Act s326). If the money transmitter isn't doing this you should be asking what else they're not doing.

Do we take control of the domain?
Yes. If you are wary of sending a domain to a registrar that may not act in your interests, we can take custody of the domain for you, we call this Domain Concierege

What do we charge?
Escrow.com's fees start at 3.25% and go down to 0.89% for larger deals. Buyer and seller can also select additional services like Domain Concierge with additional fees. Disbursements out via ACH out are always free, wire transfers are $10.

Jackson Elsegood
General Manager, Escrow.com

 

[anantj]

Hi Everyone,
I'm jumping into this thread late so there's a few open questions that need an answer.

Why would a buyer or seller use a professional escrow company like Escrow.com?
Escrow.com has been in the business of providing safe online transcations for nearly 20 years. We don't just say that our transactions are safe, our licenses guarantee it. Escrow means your funds are held in non-interest earning trust accounts, not invested back into the business or at risk on the stock market. We are audited regularly to make sure that the funds that we hold are being held as they should be. We also provide 100% protection against chargebacks which mean that if a payment is reversed, Escrow.com fights the credit card company, not the seller.

What is account verification?
We ask buyers and sellers in transactions exceeding $3,000 to provide some proof of identity (like a drivers license with name and address on it) to verify who they are. We do this because all money transmitters doing business in the US are required to verify the source and destination of funds by law (US PATRIOT Act s326). If the money transmitter isn't doing this you should be asking what else they're not doing.

Do we take control of the domain?
Yes. If you are wary of sending a domain to a registrar that may not act in your interests, we can take custody of the domain for you, we call this Domain Concierege

What do we charge?
Escrow.com's fees start at 3.25% and go down to 0.89% for larger deals. Buyer and seller can also select additional services like Domain Concierge with additional fees. Disbursements out via ACH out are always free, wire transfers are $10.

Jackson Elsegood
General Manager, Escrow.com

Given all this awesomeness in Escrow.com as stated by you, can you please explain what happened with cqd.com ? Pretty much most of the awesomeness stated above was a failure

 

[D Haynes]

Given all this awesomeness in Escrow.com as stated by you, can you please explain what happened with cqd.com ? Pretty much most of the awesomeness stated above was a failure

Exactly what I was thinking. For me personally that whole episode made Escrow look practically obsolete.

 

[golan]

Hi Everyone,
I'm jumping into this thread late so there's a few open questions that need an answer.

Why would a buyer or seller use a professional escrow company like Escrow.com?
Escrow.com has been in the business of providing safe online transcations for nearly 20 years. We don't just say that our transactions are safe, our licenses guarantee it. Escrow means your funds are held in non-interest earning trust accounts, not invested back into the business or at risk on the stock market. We are audited regularly to make sure that the funds that we hold are being held as they should be. We also provide 100% protection against chargebacks which mean that if a payment is reversed, Escrow.com fights the credit card company, not the seller.

What is account verification?
We ask buyers and sellers in transactions exceeding $3,000 to provide some proof of identity (like a drivers license with name and address on it) to verify who they are. We do this because all money transmitters doing business in the US are required to verify the source and destination of funds by law (US PATRIOT Act s326). If the money transmitter isn't doing this you should be asking what else they're not doing.

Do we take control of the domain?
Yes. If you are wary of sending a domain to a registrar that may not act in your interests, we can take custody of the domain for you, we call this Domain Concierege

What do we charge?
Escrow.com's fees start at 3.25% and go down to 0.89% for larger deals. Buyer and seller can also select additional services like Domain Concierge with additional fees. Disbursements out via ACH out are always free, wire transfers are $10.

Jackson Elsegood
General Manager, Escrow.com

It's so easy to jump into a thread where people are wondering what escrow to use from now, and to dance on the bones of a dead competitor.

But where have you been back then when all this 70 or so pages fight was rolling, and people like 100 times asked you to comment?

 

[Lakshan]

Pretty sad to see Payoneer Escrow close. It was a very comveniant Escrow service for many domainers in 3rd world countries where most Payment processors do ot support and high payout fee with escrow services. Hope to see a good alternative for them.

Anyway, At the moment I like Epik. They support many payment methods and charge only 5% fee if you have the domain with them before the transaction.

 

[toughdomains]

I may be misstating here but as far as I know an escrow service is highly regulated and requires alot more hoops to jump through...a strait domain sale with a marketplace acting as a broker like undev or epik does not have the same restrictions.

 

[tonyk2000]

As a side effect, brokerage services that used Payoneer (and, accordingly, we paid directly by Payoneer) are "homeless" again. OK, in most aspects. Such as domainagents dot com for example, who (historically) used escrow.com but were OK with Payoneer as well. Now they can use escrow.com only which mean that a number of domainers/customers would not even open their email solicitations, as they'd rather prefer not to sell the domain at all (vs. "touching" escrow.com for any purpose). Unfortunately I'm not aware of any platform that supports 3rd-party-broker powered sales /excluding escrow.com/ Maybe escrow.domains does though, anybody knows?

 

[toughdomains]

As a side effect, brokerage services that used Payoneer (and, accordingly, we paid directly by Payoneer) are "homeless" again. OK, in most aspects. Such as domainagents dot com for example, who (historically) used escrow.com but were OK with Payoneer as well. Now they can use escrow.com only which mean that a number of domainers/customers would not even open their email solicitations, as they'd rather prefer not to sell the domain at all (vs. "touching" escrow.com for any purpose). Unfortunately I'm not aware of any platform that supports 3rd-party-broker powered sales /excluding escrow.com/ Maybe escrow.domains does though, anybody knows?

you really only need escrow if you are allowing a direct transaction btw buyer and seller. If you act as the broker you can have buyer and seller send funds and assets and deliver to each. one of our members needed help with a transaction through afternic im pretty sure they dont use any escrow they actually took the name from the sellers account (there was a buy now price in place) and took funds from the buyer...the seller is now waiting to receive the funds but needs to submit some payment and tax info...says could take 4 to 6 weeks. but it looks like it was a brokered transaction with no escrow. i have to assume afternic is selling hundreds to thousands of names per month.

 

[stevanlieberman]

Apart from the options listed above, there are few other alternatives. I have not used any of them. Please do your due diligence before using any of the below services

DN.com @DN.com
https://www.namepros.com/threads/dn-com-escrow-review.1013410/
https://www.namepros.com/threads/a-letter-from-dn-com-to-you.880164/
https://www.namepros.com/threads/share-your-dn-com-experience.840158/
https://www.namepros.com/threads/is-dn-com-a-good-service.889940/

Transpact.com @FairTrial
https://www.namepros.com/threads/transpact-com-account-verification-process.993567/
https://www.namepros.com/threads/transpact-com-uk-eu-members-should-check-them-out.769988/
https://www.namepros.com/threads/any-idea-about-transpact-escrow.1075667/

Escrow.Domains, a service offered by law firm Greenberg & Lieberman, LLC (Coins.com was recently sold via Escrow.Domains. Sedo has also partnered with Escrow.Domains to provide secure fund transfers through an independent law firm. ) @stevanlieberman

https://www.namepros.com/threads/escrow-domains-what-are-your-experiences-with-them.1010558/
https://www.namepros.com/threads/escrow-domains.943492/

If anyone has any questions re our escrow service please just give me a call or email. I am happy to answer any questions.

Thanks

Stevan
http://www.aplegal.com
http://www.escrowdomains.com
direct: 202-625-7016

 

[stevanlieberman]

And per my understanding, escrow.domains is like escrow.com
They do nothing... just receive and keep money... a few days/weeks of 0% loans while the seller and buyer are doing all work to transfer the domain.

Sedo is TRUE escrow... you can push the domain into their account and that's all, finish.

EscrowDomains offers premium escrow where we take control over both the domain name and the money. Our lowest fee is $25 for basic escrow. We also can do any type of escrow you can imagine no matter how complicated. We have done many escrows that include crypto currencies. We can do payments over time. Please just ask and I am sure we can both match anyone else's fees, do what ever they can do and more and if there are any issues we have full time support plus I am always around.

Thanks

Stevan
http://www.aplegal.com
http://www.escrowdomains.com
direct: 202-625-7016

 

[peace800]

Do escrow.domains payout to UK banks as well?


So I'm a UK domain seller and my buyer is from the USA can I use escrow.domains?

Is it like Escrow.com where buyer pays, escrow holds funds, buyer inspects,everyone happy then funds released to seller?

What's the difference?

Is it a licensed escrow service?

Does the buyer and seller have to submit id like Escrow .com?

Can anyone vouch for them?

 

[anantj]

Given all this awesomeness in Escrow.com as stated by you, can you please explain what happened with cqd.com ? Pretty much most of the awesomeness stated above was a failure

@Jackson Elsegood still waiting for your reply on this!

 

[FairTrial]

Transpact.com is Europe's leading escrow service.

We do NOT charge percentage pricing, but very low cost banded pricing - we are much lower cost generally than all other escrow services, because we have a different business model.

We are FCA (UK Government financial agency) authorised and regulated as a payment service provider.

We daily perform many domain and website transactions for many users.
Depending on where our users are, we offer the fastest end to end escrow service (our record is less than 19 minutes from buyer's payment leaving their bank account to seller payment arriving cleared in their bank account - that was for a UK transaction with both users in the UK - but we are generally faster than other escrow services).

We have been operating since 2009, and are growing.

From participating in a different thread talking about Payoneer's escrow closing, it appears many people on Namepros.com are not aware of Transpact.com.

 

[peace800]

Transpact.com is Europe's leading escrow service.

We do NOT charge percentage pricing, but very low cost banded pricing - we are much lower cost generally than all other escrow services, because we have a different business model.

We are FCA (UK Government financial agency) authorised and regulated as a payment service provider.

We daily perform many domain and website transactions for many users.
Depending on where our users are, we offer the fastest end to end escrow service (our record is less than 19 minutes from buyer's payment leaving their bank account to seller payment arriving cleared in their bank account - that was for a UK transaction with both users in the UK - but we are generally faster than other escrow services).

We have been operating since 2009, and are growing.

From participating in a different thread talking about Payoneer's escrow closing, it appears many people on Namepros.com are not aware of Transpact.com.

Can I buyer from the USA or any other country use Transpact if the seller is in the UK?

 

[FairTrial]

Can I buyer from the USA or any other country use Transpact if the seller is in the UK?

Transpact.com operates in the UK, and anyone dealing with Transpact.com does so on the understanding that they are transacting and making payment in the UK, under UK and EU law.

Transpact.com allows (with a few restrictions) users from outside the UK, but only if their bank account is in one of the following countries:
Any EU country or Australia, Brazil, Canada, Hong Kong, India, Japan, Mexico, Norway, Singapore, Switzerland or the United States.
So if you are completing a transaction with a Virgin Island seller, or a Cayman Island buyer, then you cannot benefit from Transpact.com's service.

 

[SheikhOvais]

I am glad I checked this thread before making a new one about which escrow company to go with since Payoneer has closed its domain escrow services.

Here are my questions and I would appreciate fellow domainers to share their thoughts and experiences:

1. Account Verification Process: So I am already aware of few horror stories about Escrow.com and how they ask for seller/buyer verification "after" the transaction has been initiated and the money is in their possession. So my first question is, what is the 'verification process' for the seller and the buyer of the following escrow companies:

1. Escrow.domains
2. Transpact.com

2. Question for @FairTrial: So after reading your last post here, I can make a transaction if I am based in the United States; correct?


I look forward to your answers. Have a good one.

 

[FairTrial]

@SheikhOvais,

May I answer your question in parts ?

a) Every marketplace or company that operates an escrow service or handles client money in the EU, must since 13th January 2018 be Government registered under EU law. Similar laws probably operate elsewhere around the world.

And any such Government regulated company must both identify and verify their customers under anti-money laundering and counter terrorist financing laws.

b) So if you are dealing with a company that provides escrow and it does not both identify you and verify your identity, then that company is probably breaking the law by remitting money whilst not Government regulated.

c) How a company identifies and verifies its customers varies from company to company.
At Transpact.com, we often identify and verify our customers without them ever realising they have done so, and without them requiring extra steps to do so.

As cumulative payment sizes increase, or if other risk factors indicate, or even due to arbitrary random selection (random sampling is required by law), extra evidence of identity may sometimes be required from a customer. That is broadly the law across the world, in all jurisdictions.

d) A few minority players in the domain world have abused the system and used domain transfers for significant money laundering.
(The definition of Money laundering in the EU has included for the last year the movement of money that has not been properly taxed, and this has exacerbated the problem).

So whilst the majority of those transferring domains do so entirely properly and without issue, the acts of the minority have meant that any escrow service (or client money handling service) has to perform checks to ensure that any one transaction is not a case of money laundering or terrorist financing (the assassination of Hamas's Mahmoud Al-Mabhouh is just one case where the terrorist funding for the terrorist event clearly occurred through an escrow service).

e) So it is unlikely that we will ever go back to a world where you can use an escrow service without having to provide evidence of your identity.

That means that when using an escrow service, you have to worry about identity theft and the escrow service getting hacked and sharing your personal documents.

That is actually a good reason to choose an EU authorised payment firm because of two key EU laws:
i) EU law from 13th January 2018 demands that any payment firm cannot be authorised unless it has performed a complete information and IT security lockdown and investigation, and ensured that it cannot be hacked, and thereafter requires an annual audit to ensure that this remains so (as well as a lot of other constant vigilance measures), and
ii) EU law has introduced GDPR, that states that if a firm is hacked and loses its customers information, it can be fined up to €20 million or 4% of its worldwide turnover (whichever is greater !).

So an EU authorised payment firm offers you a fairly reasonable guarantee that your personal infromation will be kept confidential and secure.

f) At Transpact.com, a transaction cannot become 'Live & Protected' if any customer verification is outstanding. That means, if we ever ask for evidence of identity (and often we do not), then you can always cancel the transaction and take back your payment if you wish, as the escrow transaction will not have commenced yet.

I think this has happened to us just once in almost nine years of trading.

g) In answer to your second question, being in the USA does not rule you out of a transaction with us. But remember, you will be transacting in the UK under UK and EU law. But this offers very, very substantial protection (and probably more protection than your local law).

Sorry for the long diatribe.

 

[SheikhOvais]

@SheikhOvais,

May I answer your question in parts ?

a) Every marketplace or company that operates an escrow service or handles client money in the EU, must since 13th January 2018 be Government registered under EU law. Similar laws probably operate elsewhere around the world.

And any such Government regulated company must both identify and verify their customers under anti-money laundering and counter terrorist financing laws.

b) So if you are dealing with a company that provides escrow and it does not both identify you and verify your identity, then that company is probably breaking the law by remitting money whilst not Government regulated.

c) How a company identifies and verifies its customers varies from company to company.
At Transpact.com, we often identify and verify our customers without them ever realising they have done so, and without them requiring extra steps to do so.

As cumulative payment sizes increase, or if other risk factors indicate, or even due to arbitrary random selection (random sampling is required by law), extra evidence of identity may sometimes be required from a customer. That is broadly the law across the world, in all jurisdictions.

d) A few minority players in the domain world have abused the system and used domain transfers for significant money laundering.
(The definition of Money laundering in the EU has included for the last year the movement of money that has not been properly taxed, and this has exacerbated the problem).

So whilst the majority of those transferring domains do so entirely properly and without issue, the acts of the minority have meant that any escrow service (or client money handling service) has to perform checks to ensure that any one transaction is not a case of money laundering or terrorist financing (the assassination of Hamas's Mahmoud Al-Mabhouh is just one case where the terrorist funding for the terrorist event clearly occurred through an escrow service).

e) So it is unlikely that we will ever go back to a world where you can use an escrow service without having to provide evidence of your identity.

That means that when using an escrow service, you have to worry about identity theft and the escrow service getting hacked and sharing your personal documents.

That is actually a good reason to choose an EU authorised payment firm because of two key EU laws:
i) EU law from 13th January 2018 demands that any payment firm cannot be authorised unless it has performed a complete information and IT security lockdown and investigation, and ensured that it cannot be hacked, and thereafter requires an annual audit to ensure that this remains so (as well as a lot of other constant vigilance measures), and
ii) EU law has introduced GDPR, that states that if a firm is hacked and loses its customers information, it can be fined up to €20 million or 4% of its worldwide turnover (whichever is greater !).

So an EU authorised payment firm offers you a fairly reasonable guarantee that your personal infromation will be kept confidential and secure.

f) At Transpact.com, a transaction cannot become 'Live & Protected' if any customer verification is outstanding. That means, if we ever ask for evidence of identity (and often we do not), then you can always cancel the transaction and take back your payment if you wish, as the escrow transaction will not have commenced yet.

I think this has happened to us just once in almost nine years of trading.

g) In answer to your second question, being in the USA does not rule you out of a transaction with us. But remember, you will be transacting in the UK under UK and EU law. But this offers very, very substantial protection (and probably more protection than your local law).

Sorry for the long diatribe.

Thank you for your detailed response, I really appreciate it.

I understand everything you have shared and I do realize how important it is to verify identification if needed and I don't have any issue with that. My actual concerns were to get verified before initiating the escrow transaction so that the buyer won't have any discomfort or bad experience during the escrow transaction (which you have already answered, thanks), .

New question: You mentioned that I will be transacting under UK and EU law, so are there any "taxes" related things that I should be aware of? Like, being a seller, will my money be liable for a tax deduction per UK/EU law, or will I receive full money (minus your escrow fee)?

Thanks again for your response.

 

[FairTrial]

Thank you for your detailed response, I really appreciate it.
...

New question: You mentioned that I will be transacting under UK and EU law, so are there any "taxes" related things that I should be aware of? Like, being a seller, will my money be liable for a tax deduction per UK/EU law, or will I receive full money (minus your escrow fee)?

In response, there are no taxes and no deductions whatsoever when using our service, apart from our fees as clearly shown on our website.
We act in this regard in a similar way to a bank sending money. Just as a bank would not deduct "taxes" from a payment, nor do we.