NamesCon2020

Open Letter To Pro Domainers on Namepros

Labeled as opinion in General Domain Discussion started by oskaaay, Dec 6, 2019.

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  1. oskaaay

    oskaaay Founder, GetDomainData.com

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    Hi NPers,

    In my few time here on Namepros have observed somethings which made me create this open letter. I may be wrong to some or right to others. Whichever side, have just made my view and opinion known.


    To Pro Domainers Responding To Threads :

    First, you deserve accolades and appreciation for doing your best to help starter domainers. You deserve nothing than a heart of gratitude and big THANK YOU!

    NOTE BEFORE YOU READ ON: The term Pro does not target any specific namepros badge like "Pro" "VIP" or others.

    I am of a belief, no matter how well experienced you are or claim to be in the domain business. Each name is unique and you can not always 100% invalidate a domainers portfolio because they seem not to go inline with what you think works.

    Considering my experience in SEO, there are authority tools that tell you a keyword is 0 search volume and waste of time writing on it. Then, you follow your instinct or just simply ready to explore new grounds and break the limits not minding the risks - Only for that same keyword article to explode later bringing you an organic traffic fortune.

    In the domain world, one man's food is another man's poison and so another man's poison fit well as a favourite for another. For example, I can't imagine myself eating animals like a Lizard or Scorpion due to my Nigeria background which made them plenty and playing around us daily because we don't see them as edible but I think that is opposite for a Chinese man.

    So, will encourage pro domainers - Please, don't always throw a blanket ban on other domainers portfolio especially starters.

    It's good you let them know that some of their choices may not be right but at the same time let them realize if they do their homework well and discover something not known by most including yourself worthy enough for them to take the risk, then they should do in as much as they are ready to bear the consequences.

    Mind you, just like @Bob Hawkes stated in this thread https://www.namepros.com/threads/an-inquiry-come-a-day-after-handreg-a-name.1166010/page-2 , a domain is just a year experiment.

    If you see that it does not worth it, you have a whole 12months to test the market and easily drop it just by simply avoiding renewal.

    You have not trapped except if you go overboard with reg for 5 to 10years at a go which a smart domainer will not do for uncertain domain names.


    To me, Domain is like exploration, don't cage anyone's mind....... let's all explore and diversify....it makes our domaining world more exciting and goes round.

    Love you all
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2019
    The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
  2. Michael Ehrhardt

    Michael Ehrhardt Restricted (15-30%)

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  3. Soofi

    Soofi Top Member PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    You dont like their opinion, that's your thought process, but if PRO badged domainers are trying to help someone, save some money, while learning about nitty gritty's of the domaining industry early-on in their career, should be thankful to them rather than pointing them.

    Why target PRO baged domainers when everyone has RIGHT TO AN OPINION here, and that's what makes NamePros - world's largest domainers community!
     
  4. oskaaay

    oskaaay Founder, GetDomainData.com

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    Thanks for your contribution but you missing the point. Its not targeted at those with "PRO" or "VIP" or whatever badaget on Namepros.
     
  5. karmaco

    karmaco Top Member VIP

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    What you view as throwing a wet blanket on a newbie is people giving sound advice. This is a hard business, part skill, part instinct and part luck. Everyone comes in here thinking their names are fantastic and most of the time they are wrong.

    There are so many nuances to learn and there are two ways to do so : trial and error OR believe the answers given to you when you ask for an honest opinion. Most people are obstinate and choose trial and error 😂 but kudos to those who try to learn from other people’s mistakes. I have been at this 3 years and I am still learning.

    So what you may view as shattering someone’s dream is us trying to save them money. Registering garbage adds up real fast and is in the end—on day 365— still garbage.

    I appreciate the spirit with which you wrote this, but the first thing to know in this business is you have to have a good tough shell and not be overly sensitive. If someone can’t take our criticism how will they deal with a son of a gun chewing them out over a price on a domain?

    This is not a nice business. You have to be savvy and patient and have a strong core that can’t be rattled easily. There are nice people within the business but there are sharks too and you have to be able to deal with the negatives inside and outside the industry.

    There are some incredibly smart talented people here who share their knowledge and opinions for the newcomers. Its up to each individual to decide what they will absorb (or not) as sound advice instead of take it as a personal slight.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2019
  6. Not a robot

    Not a robot Established Member

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    Domaining is difficult. Businesses regardless of background or industry or financial backing need dot-com, so you need to know what’s going on outside of your comfort zone. Nobody knows everything, so we need to be receptive of what others say.

    I think it’s rude to provide unsolicited comment on people’s portfolio. I have checked portfolios by some members here, and most of time I scratch my head. Unless you are a top-tier domain investor holding the likes of olive(.)com, your domains are pretty as much hold-and-hope-the-best as mine.

    For domain names posted here, though, fellow domainers should give their honest opinions. It takes some courage to ask for appraisal, so we don’t want to be too harsh so to discourage others from asking the same. It’s not a easy balance.

    We need to keep in mind that people need to hand reg first before asking here. So often we see crappy names, but only because people who ask for opinions often already sense some problem there. But still, they need to hand reg first. I wish there is some way we can confidently ask for opinion before hand registering, but that’s the way life is.

    Even for a domain being offered for sale (not for appraisal), some constructive opinion should be allowed. For example, I did recently comment a certain Chinese name dot-com having no value. It’s probably against forum rule, but if we see a problem, we should speak up. We shouldn’t push bad names to fellow domainers.

    I don’t agree that domains are one-year experiment. .co and .io are expensive, and cost can add up. There aren’t many good domains for hand registering or drop catching. The good ones that are expiring go through pre-release auctions. So good domains are costly, and cheap ones are... meh.

    I have to thank you on analyzing expired domains and put them in a list. As you and many of us would know, even the good ones aren’t too valuable in terms of SEO. But most of us are late comers, so we scrap.

    Overall I think we have a good community here. If someone goes overboard, courteously correct them or just stop responding.
     
  7. oskaaay

    oskaaay Founder, GetDomainData.com

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    Sincerely i do appreciate this comment and some part are even humourous and got me smilling hard.

    "I have to thank you on analyzing expired domains and put them in a list. As you and many of us would know, even the good ones aren’t too valuable in terms of SEO. But most of us are late comers, so we scrap."

    Thanks for the feedback and doing my best daily to comb the expired domain junks to find some SEO gem. Indeed good names aren't always cheap to access. You need huge cash to acquire it before you can resell for profit.

    Also, you are accurate with the "even the good ones aren’t too valuable in terms of SEO" because I do take time to do SEO check on domain sales list and one of my recent discover were sales that capped around $5,000 - $20,000 on Uniregistery which has no SEO value. In fact, most of them seat at Domain Authority (DA1), Page Authority (PA1) and SpamScore of 50%-80%.

    They are nice name for buyers in the look of brandables but not for those after SEO use.

    The world of domaining is just unsatisfiable
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2019
  8. griff

    griff Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    oskaaay, you have a positive attitude, I can see you doing well. I think it's important for people to be honest especially pro's as at the end of the day 99% of us are here to sell and make some profits, but try to be polite and clear as Bob states, if a name is not great, it should always be about the name itself, not a slander on the owner or including bias in judgement, which I see occasionally.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2019
  9. oskaaay

    oskaaay Founder, GetDomainData.com

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    As for me have chosen the part of the domains for SEO use as a focus over other criteria like 1L,2L,3L,4L, brandable etc. which I know for sure is a total turn off for another domainer (most) portfolio focus.

    Yet that doesn't make either you (other domainers) and me wrong for our choices.

    I do have names I selected to explore brand-ability too once a while and list on marketplaces like @epik but they don't fit my SEO portfolio on my own domaining website.

    Just exploring....so interesting:xf.cool::xf.wink::xf.grin::xf.rolleyes:
     
  10. BabayS

    BabayS Draqon.com $2K Blue Account

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    Really niche explanation.
    Thanks for sharing @oskaaay
     
  11. frank-germany

    frank-germany domainer since 2001 / musician VIP

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    looks like your domains are great
    (even though nobody agrees)

    good luck
     
  12. mAd MaX

    mAd MaX Established Member

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    Nobody Knows the Future.

    A mere like or dislike doesn't matter that much.

    As long as anybody got positive ROI it's worth a hustle.
     
  13. Brands.International

    Brands.International formerly lolwarrior Gold Account VIP

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    I will give you 1 advice (maybe you will like it, maybe not):

    If you want to be succesful and be in game for a long time, do not try to get to consensus with other fellow domain investors. Trying that is a straigh road to hell. Period.

    You need to know what are you doing and what you want to achieve. Nobody is going to really help you. You need to have clear vision of what you want to achieve, and then act accordingly. Other people can confuse you a lot.

    From my personal experience: I invest in special domain asset class, which is new gTLDs, which is still not mainstream here. There are some very experienced and succesful domain investors who do the same, but somehow they do not engage here. So do you think someone helped me? Vice versa, there are hundreds of posts which told me I do wrong thing, some really nasty ones during the years. Did I care? No at all. You need to be stuborn, to have your clear vision, otherwise you will be one of tens of thousand of unsuccesful people who are doing a $100 flip from time to time and are all in general consensus, patting each other on their back (and are still poor after years of flipping). So do not care about what others are thinking.

    PS: and think twice before you listen to investment "advice" which is coming from any registrar, or anyone working for registrar, because this is usually even another layer of ridiculousness, imo :)
     
  14. The Durfer

    The Durfer Upgraded Member Gold Account Blue Account VIP

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  15. biggie

    biggie Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Hi

    if you only want to hear or read what pleases you,
    then maybe you should write your own replies

    you can't decide how others choose to express themselves, if and when, they choose to reply.

    and if you don't like the replies, then maybe refrain from posting remarks that are questionable enough for someone like me, to question.

    I've read some of your posts and I questioned them.
    maybe you didn't like what or how I said what I said, but it had to be said the way, it was expressed.

    you might see names from seo perspective and I and others see them differently, so there is a conflict.
    if you can't deal with those contrasting viewpoints, then you won't last long

    imo...
     
  16. frank-germany

    frank-germany domainer since 2001 / musician VIP

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    right.
     
  17. frank-germany

    frank-germany domainer since 2001 / musician VIP

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    love you !
     
  18. DnameAgame

    DnameAgame BrandPlease.com Gold Account

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    I think we can all admit, it is intimidating to ask your first few questions. Some get snap replies because - a few minutes reading on NP will likely find your answer. But that is how it always is, in every business - it's easier to ask then research. (TBH - I do & sure many still do this as well?).

    I do think this is an amazing community & you will get good (and honest advice) - it is your job (new members) to figure out who you find trustworthy & credible.

    Give back, be helpful, honest & humble +Cautious = learning a skill and a business that few really understand. There are true opportunities for just about anyone.
     
  19. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes formerly MetBob NameTalent Gold Account VIP Trusted Blogger

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    I would offer a few personal opinions around this important topic.
    • I think we are fortunate to have those active on NamePros who have long term success, and in the vast majority of times I believe they genuinely are offering what they think is in the best interests of the person they are responding to.
    • Because domaining is so hard, those who have been successful deserve our respect.
    • That said, I think many of us now and then fall into the trap of recommending what is best for us, or worked for us, rather than fully appreciate the position of the other person.
    • We are also fortunate to have some new members who are willing to speak their mind and have the enthusiasm to try new things. This is good and will help our community be innovative. In any discipline most new ideas will fail, but if we try to squash new ideas, domaining will not innovate and improve.
    • I think it is really important that each person takes responsibility for their own decisions, and do not listen blindly to anyone. We should not ask others to make decisions for us nor tell others what to do. We should consider the logic and evidence for anything we read here. I am not saying distrust people, just look at all the evidence and make our own decisions.
    • I learn things of value from many many people here, but I don't blindly accept as the right thing for me any advice offered by anyone. Sorry but thought I should let you all know :xf.wink:. My money, my risk, my decision. I don't think you should accept advice without carefully deciding for yourself, and consulting numerous sources and opinions, either.
    • I am firmly convinced that domaining is not an exact science. If you read the NameBio full report for many days I think you will find domains that you are surprised that they sold for the amount that they did. I've now done this daily for 16 months, and periodically before that, and what sells surprise me many times. That is partly because of holes in my knowledge and expertise, but it is more than that I think.
    • Domaining is hard and far from assured. No one should invest more than they can afford to lose. Please read this point again. It, along with take responsibility for your own decisions, is the most important part of this long post.
    • A recent post of mine was linked by the OP. In that I expressed the concern that while advice along the lines of (not a direct quote of anyone but in spirit of many I have seen) "don't (hand register, invest in that niche, invest in new extensions, invest in anything other than .com, invest in hyphens, etc.) because those renewals will sink you." is honestly offered, there is an inherent assumption that most domain names will/should be renewed. I think we should carefully reflect on measures like similar sales, offers, etc. and critically evaluate what makes sense to renew. Trying something risky is an experiment, keeping following it without any sign of possible success usually is unwise. The pioneers of domain investing took risks most people at that time thought were silly. Certain innovators will continue to try speculative things. Do that sometimes, but realize the risk and also know when to accept it is not working and get out.
    • Domaining is very broad. There are probably well over 100 million businesses globally with very different niches, geographical reaches, sizes, etc. Some invest a lot and serve the big global players. Some serve small businesses. Some do a mix. Some serve the non-business market. Some to a large degree find good names and resell them to other domainers. There is not a one size fits all.
    • We sell best what we are enthusiastic about. While being excited about a domain name is by itself not enough, you need at least one end user to really like it, if you are not excited about a domain name your chances of selling it will be less.
    • Re tone, we all have our own online natures, and that is sort of a fact of life. In many areas there is good evidence that overly blunt advice is, perhaps surprisingly, ineffective since normally it evokes defence mechanisms and makes the person more apt to hold even more tightly an alternative view. I firmly believe that. I do believe in being nice and considerate, but beyond that, I think being constructive is the way to be more effective. Read NamePros guidelines for respect and constructive contributions. They are superb advice (no I did not have any role in writing them, but would be proud if I did).
    • Thank you to EVERYONE who contributes to make this the amazing community that it is.
    Have a nice day everyone,:xf.smile:

    Bob

    PS Thanks to @oskaaay for courage for the open letter. I am not sure that Domain Industry News is the right place for this thread, but will leave that decision to the hard-working and wise moderators. We should thank them more often. (y)
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2019
  20. NickB

    NickB Aka MrAcidic Gold Account VIP

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    If I ask for an opinion on one of my names, I want the truth. I do not want a sugar coated response as this will not help me learn. If it is sh*t then I would rather be told it is and why it is......

    A lot of people are just looking for some kind of self justification are not really looking for the truth.

    If you want an honest opinion then be prepared to read something you might not like......
     
  21. DnameAgame

    DnameAgame BrandPlease.com Gold Account

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    @Bob Hawkes,
    This is an important point you made.

    The point being that advise that is based on what worked for someone - is the best advise. Anything else is speculation or an assumption.

    I try to read as many perspectives as possible, mostly to find out what I am missing or don't understand.

    Real information, tested information, and personal sucess info - is the best info IMO.

    Awsome post - with tons of great info, appreciated Bob & all NP!
     
  22. xynames

    xynames XYNames.com PRO VIP

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    One such domain, maybe five, an experiment.

    A hundred, few hundred, may be quite a tug on the purse strings.

    A few hundred, or more, may be a disaster.

    Tell this, your theory, to ThatNameGuy a.k.a. Bulloney, who has THOUSANDS of domains that never sold, many of which he already dropped after spending TENS of thousands of dollars registering and renewing them.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2019
  23. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes formerly MetBob NameTalent Gold Account VIP Trusted Blogger

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    Even though my opinion is different, somewhat, from yours overall, I totally agree with the part you underlined -- the answer should give the basis for the opinion to be helpful to learn.

    I actually find that information helps me two ways. It helps me understand the thinking and next time apply it on my own. But it also helps me gauge how much weight I should put on the opinion - i.e. how applicable the position and advice is to my own situation.

    It seems to me that a rather small change in a response could easily transform one into one that we both could be happy with.

    EXAMPLE
    Not useful in my opinion: "That is garbage like all the other ones you have listed. You will be gone from domaining soon enough when renewals time comes around."

    Not useful I think in your (or my) opinion (correct me if I am wrong); "Don't like it much, but many kinds of names sell. Get it listed. Good luck with it."

    I would suggest a more constructive answer might be along these lines.

    "I can see why you liked it because the expression is cute and it has alliteration. Thinking it up was creative and that can definitely be good at times. But in my experience names that are too cute, and I think this one is, almost never get offers. Like if we look at zzzz it has only once (in NameBio at least) sold as part of any cute expression and then only for $120. Also by adding zyxy as the other word there are tons of other possibilities that someone could just hand reg is they wanted a phrase."

    To me an answer like the last one both helps learning, but also (as NamePros suggest we all do) it builds in a constructive way in our responses. In other areas of life it has been my experience that has a bigger impact than a blunt or especially a rude response.

    Bob
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2019
  24. biggie

    biggie Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    in many areas,
    I find that excessive pacification of individuals so they will like you, is less constructive and potentially damaging to the person who needs to be told, "quite bluntly" where the fault lies in their ideology or premise.
    as one can provide a constructive solution, answer or criticism, with a blunt reply, all while effectively providing clarity to a clouded situation.

    if that person wants to be defensive, then so be it
    in most cases, it's because they learned some :poop: they need to unlearn, and are unwilling to let it go.

    we're all supposed to be grown, mature adults here, and it's time some start acting like it, instead of whimpering cause they got their feelings hurt.

    better to cry now cuz i hurt your feelings, than to be crying later cuz you spent all your money on crappy names and can't pay rent or buy food.

    so, either you want the hard truths or you want somebody to give you a pacifier to suck on.

    tick, tick, tick...

    imo...
     
  25. Brands.International

    Brands.International formerly lolwarrior Gold Account VIP

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    I agree with the Bob here, but also with Biggie in a way. You can really give lot of basically very hard opinions / appraisals, but you need to back it up with some data/analysis/experience/thoughts, at least something from that. And you need to have good of the person in your mind, in a first place. If you do it, you can usually say some very strict statements, which will actually be helpful to the person .. after all, we are not evaluating the person, but the domain names which has been registered, and if we are tough but true at the same time, we can help the person.

    But it is imo advised to give our feedback when we are ourself rested, eaten well, and are satifsied with ourselfves, so we do not project our momentary unhappines to others.

    On the other way, people should learn that critical feedback is the best you can get - it will actually force you to think about answers, and if you can not find any good answers which you can present in calm and logical way, maybe you should shift your opinion in this case, imo :)
     

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