news Dan.com to increase comission from 9% to 15% effective Feb 1st 2023

[MadAboutDomains]

Just received this email from Dan.com about commission increases (snippet of email):

Thoughts?

 

[Recons.Com]

Btw, here is one negative side effect of the GD/Afternic changes. Classic shooting themselves in the foot story:

On my own website, I had domains at BIN processed internally, but for installments, I was sending those to Dan, as I thought it was fair enough for them to get 9% (it costs me only around 3% if I were to do myself) for cc transaction costs, handling, etc.

Now, no way I am keeping that setup with 25% processing fees. It is ridiculous. I will either use Daaz with 8% for that or just use an installment plugin for processing it internally with 3%.

 

[davidc1]

Btw, here is one negative side effect of the GD/Afternic changes. Classic shooting themselves in the foot story:

On my own website, I had domains at BIN processed internally, but for installments, I was sending those to Dan, as I thought it was fair enough for them to get 9% (it costs me only around 3% if I were to do myself) for cc transaction costs, handling, etc.

Now, no way I am keeping that setup with 25% processing fees. It is ridiculous. I will either use Daaz with 8% for that or just use an installment plugin for processing it internally with 3%.

It's easy to find solutions for landers, fee processors, etc...
But the power of afternic is there... which percent of $$$ do you make with afternic (no landers) ?

 

[Recons.Com]

It's easy to find solutions for landers, fee processors, etc...
But the power of afternic is there... which percent of $$$ do you make with afternic (no landers) ?

I don't know because I use the landers for over 98% of 25200+ names.

But they have ticked me off the wrong way and I am looking into diversifying away since they seem to be willing to use their monopoly power in ways they did not before.

Basically I need to achieve certain % of sales via landers at 3% to offset the loss from the commission increase and being my combined commission below 15%.

Incidentally Godaddy and their liaison have conveniently ignored the question if Hugedomains will be paying 25% or they are giving the unfair advantage to the fellow monopoly once again.

 

[davidc1]

I don't know because I use the landers for over 98% of 25200+ names.

But they have ticked me off the wrong way and I am looking into diversifying away since they seem to be willing to use their monopoly power in ways they did not before.

Basically I need to achieve certain % of sales via landers at 3% to offset the loss from the commission increase and being my combined commission below 15%.

Incidentally Godaddy and their liaison have conveniently ignored the question if Hugedomains will be paying 25% or they are giving the unfair advantage to the fellow monopoly once again.

you used their landers ?
If not, it's easy to see the % $$$ made by afternic only.

 

[bmugford]

So, I have used Afternic for years and never heard of this pricing policy.

In fact, in the past someone at GoDaddy/Afternic sent me an excel spreadsheet that automatically added a % increase to my asking prices when I was concerned about the higher commissions. So, I really question how seriously this policy was ever enforced.

At the time I just decided to list them at my normal asking price instead, but that was my decision.

I didn't want any "price discrepancies" on my end. You can probably imagine how annoyed I was later when it turned out there were "price discrepancies" due to some partner registrars adding a surcharge.

The combination of the 25% + this pricing policy is a major issue, and burning GoDaddy goodwill with the domain investment community.

Let's try to come up with an analogy. In this case, GoDaddy is eBay -

25% For using an external lander -

This would be like listing a product for sale on eBay and Facebook marketplace.
If the product sells on eBay, instead of charging a normal fee, eBay tacks on an extra 10%.

Then eBay tries to frame their normal fee, as a "reward".

Afternic pricing policy on your landers -

This would be like eBay saying if you have a product listed there, you can not list it anywhere else at a lower price. You want to ask a lower price on Facebook marketplace, because there is no fee? Tough.

When framed in any other context these policies look ridiculous, especially when framed as a "price discrepancy" issue.

Brad

 

[Bob Hawkes]

So I went digging, never have heard either, but it is there in B-7 of the Afternic Member Agreement. By placing it at the end of a paragraph that otherwise talks about if you change prices, but the new price does not propagate yet in network, you must honour the original price, does not help. But indeed it does say (I bolded a bit that seems important)

"Additionally, the Buy Now Price specified for any listing on Afternic must be equal to the price listed on any for sale lander used by Seller."​

Clearly it has not in past been widely followed or enforced. Note that it says must be equal to, so supposedly greater prices not allowed either, although the Twitter dustup only talks can't have lower than Afternic BIN on lander. Clearly the brandable cross listings for years had different pricing. People in past often had different pricing for names listed multiple places.

However, this condition is within a section marked "Additional Fast Transfer Terms and Conditions" Although the Twitter exchange seemed to imply all have to have lander BIN = Afternic BIN, I would interpret, unless they change their ToS, this is for FT names only? I've asked Afternic to confirm that interpretation.

I agree with sentiment above that this whole thing has burnt a lot of domainer goodwill with GD. I hope someone at Afternic will do a careful reflection and step back. They feel they are so big people need them, but if enough get rankled, to use Andrew's term, they really could suffer a big pushback I think.

-Bob

 

[davidc1]

So I went digging, never have heard either, and it is there in B-7 of the Afternic Member Agreement. By placing it at the end of a paragraph that otherwise talks about if you change prices, but the new price does not propagate yet in network, you must honour the original price, does not help. But indeed it does say (I bolded a bit that seems important)

"Additionally, the Buy Now Price specified for any listing on Afternic must be equal to the price listed on any for sale lander used by Seller."​

Clearly it has not in past been widely followed or enforced. Note that it says must be equal to, so supposedly greater prices not allowed either, although the Twitter dustup only talks can't have lower than Afternic BIN on lander. Clearly the brandable cross listings for years had different pricing. People in past often had different pricing for names listed multiple places.

However, this condition is within a section marked "Additional Fast Transfer Terms and Conditions" Although the Twitter exchange seemed to imply all have to have lander BIN = Afternic BIN, I would interpret unless they change their ToS this is for FT names only? I've asked Afternic to confirm that interpretation.

I agree with sentiment above that this whole thing has burnt a lot of domainer goodwill with GD. I hope someone at Afternic will do a careful reflection and step back. They feel they are so big people need them, but if enough get rankled, to use Andrew's term, they really could suffer a big pushback I think.

-Bob

in that case, we must have multiple currencies on afternic to follow this rule.

 

[Future Sensors]

When you price in Euros at DAN and in Dollars at Afternic, it is already practically impossible to maintain the same pricing on both platforms. In addition, the DAN settings contain this warning, whereby GoDaddy is responsible for the fact that prices with different currencies are not identical on both platforms.

Finally, Afternic partners often also translate into the local currency.

The exchange rate can fluctuate in such a way that it is wise to price in a suitable surcharge yourself, otherwise it can turn out very disadvantageously. See the chart below showing the EUR/USD exchange rate over the last 5 years. Not even talking about the 21% VAT that DAN is charging on some of its service fees...

 

[Ostrados]

Fast transfer partners are allowed to add any markup or discount, but domain seller is not allowed!!

And no there is no monoply practice here just some old hidden policy.

The timing of this can't be any worse. Are they intentionally trying to anger as many people as possible?

 

[Bob Hawkes]

It is worse. Someone on Twitter pointed out, and it seems right, that the B-7 clause about the Afternic price must equal the BIN price on your lander elsewhere was only recently added recently. It shows in the Feb. 2, 2023 crawl, but as far as I can see (lots was changed so hard to be sure) not in the previous crawl version. I show the previous section from where it is currently in the Afternic Members Agreement -- here is link to full Archive: https://web.archive.org/web/2022120...nic.com/legal/agreements/membership-agreement

 

[bmugford]

It is worse. Someone on Twitter pointed out, and it seems right, that the B-7 clause about the Afternic price must equal the BIN price on your lander elsewhere was only recently added recently. It shows in the Feb. 2, 2023 crawl, but as far as I can see (lots was changed so hard to be sure) not in the previous crawl version. I show the previous section from where it is currently in the Afternic Members Agreement -- here is link to full Archive: https://web.archive.org/web/2022120...nic.com/legal/agreements/membership-agreement

Show attachment 231493

Hmm...but I thought this policy has existed for a long time.

Isn't that what we were told?

Brad

 

[internext]

the Afternic price must equal the BIN price on your lander elsewhere

And what if it doesn't?

Sorry if asked and answered already. GoDannic is getting right up there with Epik for
"impossible to keep up with" here

 

[silentg]

I compared the archive version and new version of the agreement and the can confirm this part is new

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Hmm...but I thought this policy has existed for a long time.

Isn't that what we were told?

It does seem that is what the official Afternic Twitter account said.
I find this whole thing really troubling.
I hope that great minds at GD are huddling to make this all right, including stepping back from the new policy.
Scrapping the 25% would also be a nice gesture to the community.
-Bob

 

[bmugford]

It does seem that is what the official Afternic Twitter account said.
I find this whole thing really troubling.
I hope that great minds at GD are huddling to make this all right, including stepping back from the new policy.
Scrapping the 25% would also be a nice gesture to the community.
-Bob

"Additionally, the Buy Now Price specified for any listing on Afternic must be equal to the price listed on any for sale lander used by Seller."

OLD - (December 6th, 2022 capture). It is not there.

Seller may change the Buy Now Price at any time; provided however, seller understands and agrees that by changing the Buy Now Price, the Listed Domain(s) is subject to a new valuation by Afternic. In addition, due to the nature of e-commerce and the internet, Afternic is unable to guarantee that any change to the Buy Now Price shall be published on Afternic and its reseller sites before an offer is received. Seller is obligated to complete a transaction with a confirmed buyer for the posted price even if seller tried to increase the Buy Now Price prior to the time of the purchase.

NEW - (February 2nd, 2023 capture). It is there.

Seller may change the Buy Now Price at any time; provided however, seller understands and agrees that by changing the Buy Now Price, the Listed Domain(s) is subject to a new valuation by Afternic. In addition, due to the nature of e-commerce and the internet, Afternic is unable to guarantee that any change to the Buy Now Price shall be published on Afternic and its reseller sites before an offer is received. Seller is obligated to complete a transaction with a confirmed buyer for the posted price even if seller tried to increase the Buy Now Price prior to the time of the purchase. Additionally, the Buy Now Price specified for any listing on Afternic must be equal to the price listed on any for sale lander used by Seller.

 

[WillW]

So the 15% & 25% increase wasn't enough for them? They just wanted more.
Feels like I'm in A Christmas Carol with ScroogeDaddy

And what exactly will happen if Afternic finds out I'm listing my names lower on my landers than Afternic?

 

[silentg]

Since no one from GoDaddy is responding here. i tagged all of them on Twitter and see if I get any response.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1621594357282361349

 

[internext]

"Additionally, the Buy Now Price specified for any listing on Afternic must be equal to the price listed on any for sale lander used by Seller."

OLD - (December 6th, 2022 capture). It is not there.

It would seem that GoDannic is acting on feedback reported to them by the community liaison.

How else would they know so many on here were discussing raising pricing on GD landers to compensate for the additional costs, as a strategy because of the 25% punitive commission? This is their response to that.

That shows me three things.
1. GoDannic has zero interest in eliminating its punitive 25% commission
2. The community liaison is not here for our benefit but for theirs
3. GoDannic couldn't give a damn about us, other than to profit from us

Its pretty obvious

 

[Future Sensors]

Disregarding DAN's VAT levy on their service fee for a moment, "same price" would mean the following at the current EUR/USD exchange rate. This exchange rate fluctuates from day to day.

DAN.COM used as lander (EUR)	AFTERNIC.COM (USD)
2,500	2,717.39

Yes, that's the same price.

(not using DAN's "Afternic integration" feature here - just pricing on both platforms separately)

Good luck enforcing this silly thing.

 

[bmugford]

If GoDaddy was going to raise the fees on Dan.com, they should have just done that and been done with it.

1.) 15% Dan.com.
2.) 15% Afternic.

One went up, one went down. Same percentage.
Nothing to get excited about, but pretty neutral.

I would have kept the tiers in place with a 15% start that steps down to 10%.

Instead of that, we get -

First the 25% fee for not using GoDaddy landers on a Afternic/Dan sale.
Now GoDaddy policy states what the price can be on our own landers, if the domain is listed on Afternic.

Now it turns out this "existing" policy just appeared in their TOS.

GoDaddy has really botched this entire thing.

Brad

 

[Gorilla]

I compared the archive version and new version of the agreement and the can confirm this part is new
Show attachment 231495

Doesn't this have consequences for SquadHelp premium listings which you have to raise the price on Afternic with about 9% of the price on SH. GD directly attacked SH too.

 

[Charybdis]

Is this price parity requirement even legal in the EU?

There was a similar issue with online travel agencies (OTAs) when the largest players used price parity requirements, see here: Europe’s rate parity history

Now rate parity requirements is banned in most EU countries to prevent monopolistic behavior.

So what about sellers located in the EU? Ok, we are talking about domains not accommodations, but I think it's a similar issue.

 

[Ostrados]

Doesn't this have consequences for SquadHelp premium listings which you have to raise the price on Afternic with about 9% of the price on SH. GD directly attacked SH too.

Exactly! it is clear that their intention was not making profit from extra small commission BUT to eliminate competition and hurt them as much as possible.

I bet they tried to buy SH but they turned down the offer. Now they are cornering them.

As I said before you should compete by providing better services and product NOT by buying out and eliminating competitors one by one!! That will hurt customers.

There must be some sort of customers protection entity for internet services

 

[Ostrados]

@Joe Styler

This is a disturbing mess it is time to show up and make some responses, don't leave poor @James Iles dealing with this mess alone, he is trying to help but it is obvious that he has no influence on decision making at Godaddy.

Do you have any comments on this:

I compared the archive version and new version of the agreement and the can confirm this part is new
Show attachment 231495

And this:

"Additionally, the Buy Now Price specified for any listing on Afternic must be equal to the price listed on any for sale lander used by Seller."

OLD - (December 6th, 2022 capture). It is not there.

Seller may change the Buy Now Price at any time; provided however, seller understands and agrees that by changing the Buy Now Price, the Listed Domain(s) is subject to a new valuation by Afternic. In addition, due to the nature of e-commerce and the internet, Afternic is unable to guarantee that any change to the Buy Now Price shall be published on Afternic and its reseller sites before an offer is received. Seller is obligated to complete a transaction with a confirmed buyer for the posted price even if seller tried to increase the Buy Now Price prior to the time of the purchase.

NEW - (February 2nd, 2023 capture). It is there.

Seller may change the Buy Now Price at any time; provided however, seller understands and agrees that by changing the Buy Now Price, the Listed Domain(s) is subject to a new valuation by Afternic. In addition, due to the nature of e-commerce and the internet, Afternic is unable to guarantee that any change to the Buy Now Price shall be published on Afternic and its reseller sites before an offer is received. Seller is obligated to complete a transaction with a confirmed buyer for the posted price even if seller tried to increase the Buy Now Price prior to the time of the purchase. Additionally, the Buy Now Price specified for any listing on Afternic must be equal to the price listed on any for sale lander used by Seller.

 

[bmugford]

This is a disturbing mess it is time to show up and make some responses, don't leave poor @James Iles dealing with this mess alone, he is trying to help but it is obvious that he has no influence on decision making at Godaddy.

The timing of this rollout has been very unfortunate. I am not sure what @James Iles is really supposed to do.

Even assuming the best of intentions, it is tough to be a domain liaison when the company you are representing is starting to build up so much ill will within the domain community, because of their unpopular actions.

Brad