discuss Sold on Sedo for 300,000 EURO But Buyer Didn't Pay

[illumy]

I had a 300,000 EUR unpaid sale record on Sedo, which was cancelled 2 weeks ago on one of my premium .APP domains to US buyer, online Purchase and Sale Agreement seems like a joke on websites like GoDaddy or Sedo. Heard too many unpaid stories about how they failed to do anything concrete on unpaid buyers. Literally a waste of time and money in many occasion.

What do you guys think of this? Just move on?

 

[illumy]

Well people need to learn from this.

Its like the story where one guy thinks he won a lottery and divorces his wife and started looking at expensive cars to buy.

Haha yea, pretty much, like I said it's nothing unusual and I'm cool with it, but at the same time not cool at how we are used to this and the platforms like Sedo seems like helper to encourage this act by doing nothing to stop this, haha.

 

[illumy]

did u get anywhere with this as had many sales on sedo with no payers just move on...

Some people actually suggested me to go for legal act since the amount is probably worth for going on court and front fee...etc. My problem is that I'm not located in US, so it's gonna be a hassle, which is another reason why I‘m sick of these leading platforms stood and did nothing useful all these years.

 

[illumy]

He did find a person willing to (digitally) sign an agreement to hand over €300k for a domain name. Regardless of what people are saying, and even if they have changed their mind, these ARE enforceable. The only question is: do you want to enforce it?

Domains aside, for €300k (could be related to anything) I would, but looks like I'm in the minority here. I wouldn't let a person off the hook for free (i.e. seller and buyer could settle for 10% of the purchase price to cancel the purchase). To each their own approach.

Even if it's a nice domain, you currently have zero guarantees that anyone will ever offer that much again. Or even half that amount. I would have a different opinion if we were talking $2 or 20k, but I think this amount warrants enforcement of the agreement.

Since seller said he was dealing with an individual, that could be interesting. They would be personally liable.

Yea that's very tempting since I don't think anyone shall be off the hook for free without consequences so easily. Say if Sedo is actually a responsible platform and enforce/leading to pursue for legal action (above certain amount) everytime this happened. I doubt there will still be this many unpaid cases from happening and majority of people in the domain industry don't give a d*** and willing to move on simply encourage them to do nothing useful, hah, hell they won't even give you the buyer's email or contact number without being asked by an attorney.

 

[hohoho]

I agree that it's odd that they are not willing to give out details without a lawyer. Then again, the enforcement of agreements isn't on Sedo. It's on the seller, in this case.

Note that you likely can't enforce the cancellation fee if you've sold on the domain for the same or a higher amount. The thinking is that the fee should cover "lost opportunity". In addition you should honer the possibility for the buyer to acquire the domain for the agreed price.

As a first step I would contact a US IP lawyer (i.e. preferably a name that has experience and a track record with domains) and, after requesting and receiving the details from Sedo, request the buyer honers the agreement, or cancels the sale at a cost of 10% of the purchase value.

Not sure what the policies on the board are re name dropping, but a larger firm such as Winston & Strawn would likely be happy to assist.

 

[illumy]

I agree that it's odd that they are not willing to give out details without a lawyer. Then again, the enforcement of agreements isn't on Sedo. It's on the seller, in this case.

Note that you likely can't enforce the cancellation fee if you've sold on the domain for the same or a higher amount. The thinking is that the fee should cover "lost opportunity". In addition you should honer the possibility for the buyer to acquire the domain for the agreed price.

As a first step I would contact a US IP lawyer (i.e. preferably a name that has experience and a track record with domains) and, after requesting and receiving the details from Sedo, request the buyer honers the agreement, or cancels the sale at a cost of 10% of the purchase value.

Not sure what the policies on the board are re name dropping, but a larger firm such as Winston & Strawn would likely be happy to assist.

Thanks man! Appreciate it.

 

[Kamaz]

300k for an .APP domain, this seems not realistic at all!

Move on!

 

[illumy]

300k for an .APP domain, this seems not realistic at all!

Move on!

More has been sold already for .APP domains. Too bad you are not in the circle.

 

[momentum]

I had a 300,000 EUR unpaid sale record on Sedo, which was cancelled 2 weeks ago ...

Sorry to hear about that. It seems that nothing is a sure deal until it shows up in your bank account.

 

[onlinetv]

Sedo has always been a shotgun business. Try and throw as much in the wind as they can and live off the few that hit a target.

They blew a 100k deal for NYCTV.com basically the same way. Just let him pass on by.
To their credit they try with their tos and such, but really they can do nothing to make a completion except demand their vig on the sale. They will give a name and address so YOU can continue with the headache and they sit back waiting for more idiots to pass them sales.

I had another one they blew for OnlineTV.com in the mid six figures but they handed me a contract which was some kind of boiler plate gumba. I went over it with my lawyer and we could not sign unless one line was removed. The line merely said I hand over all copyrights in and of OnlineTV.com. This was not for a website, just domain name. Also I have over 6000 concerts I own under original contract to OnlineTV, so I am not selling those copyrights. The error of their boiler plate was trying to make one shoe fit everyone. The only place where just the sale of a domain was at the beginning with a check box for that or website and domain. So their contract was very expansive including website. That would entail the copyrights to that, working patents if any, logos, etc. Which would also be included in the sale if it was a website sale. This has nothing to do in a contract for a domain and the confusion in what copyrights are being turned over made us remove that one sentence in a 4 page contract.

So while they say here is a contract, look it over, they do not mean you can change anything AND when you ask to talk to their legal department, THEY HAVE NONE! They had some dumb shm*Ck write one, long ago, and that's that.

Which is another reason they dont go after the fraud of sales that are not completed.

 

[xynames]

There have been no verified sales above low five figures. Talking about “inner circle” supposed sales is just that - talk. Checking namebio as of today the highest sale is 15,000
https://namebio.com/?s==YjNwIzMzAjM
In fact some of the five figure claimed .app sales were bogus so maybe even that 15k sale never happened:
https://onlinedomain.com/2018/07/16...-domain-name-sales-on-namebio-never-happened/

Right here on NP we have another failed low four figure “sale” for a dot app
https://www.namepros.com/threads/so...00-but-buyer-doesnt-pay.1116067/#post-7078725

This domain will not sell for €300K. In order for that to happen we’d first need to see current sales of multi million dollar three letter dot coms and even then it still wouldn’t happen.

This offer was more likely someone playing around with no intention to pay from the getgo.

OP’s going around disliking posts from those of us here who are infusing reality into this topic just makes anything the OP posts less credible. Does he want input or not?

This was not an auction so there were not any bids just below the €300K. Rather, it was just some jokester who clicked the BIN, or was it even someone offering a massive amount out of the blue? Maybe it was a deliberate attempt to poke fun at the BIN price (if there was a BIN posted), or to poke fun at the domain itself, who knows.

I think the OP now recognizes the invalidity of the €300K offer and that’s a mature sensible attitude.

 

[illumy]

Sedo has always been a shotgun business. Try and throw as much in the wind as they can and live off the few that hit a target.

They blew a 100k deal for NYCTV.com basically the same way. Just let him pass on by.
To their credit they try with their tos and such, but really they can do nothing to make a completion except demand their vig on the sale. They will give a name and address so YOU can continue with the headache and they sit back waiting for more idiots to pass them sales.

I had another one they blew for OnlineTV.com in the mid six figures but they handed me a contract which was some kind of boiler plate gumba. I went over it with my lawyer and we could not sign unless one line was removed. The line merely said I hand over all copyrights in and of OnlineTV.com. This was not for a website, just domain name. Also I have over 6000 concerts I own under original contract to OnlineTV, so I am not selling those copyrights. The error of their boiler plate was trying to make one shoe fit everyone. The only place where just the sale of a domain was at the beginning with a check box for that or website and domain. So their contract was very expansive including website. That would entail the copyrights to that, working patents if any, logos, etc. Which would also be included in the sale if it was a website sale. This has nothing to do in a contract for a domain and the confusion in what copyrights are being turned over made us remove that one sentence in a 4 page contract.

So while they say here is a contract, look it over, they do not mean you can change anything AND when you ask to talk to their legal department, THEY HAVE NONE! They had some dumb shm*Ck write one, long ago, and that's that.

Which is another reason they dont go after the fraud of sales that are not completed.

I was in talk with a Sedo agent the other day, wonder how he sees this in his role, thanks for the input.

 

[illumy]

There have been no verified sales above low five figures. Talking about “inner circle” supposed sales is just that - talk. Checking namebio as of today the highest sale is 15,000
https://namebio.com/?s==YjNwIzMzAjM
In fact some of the five figure claimed .app sales were bogus so maybe even that 15k sale never happened:
https://onlinedomain.com/2018/07/16...-domain-name-sales-on-namebio-never-happened/

Right here on NP we have another failed low four figure “sale” for a dot app
https://www.namepros.com/threads/so...00-but-buyer-doesnt-pay.1116067/#post-7078725

This domain will not sell for €300K. In order for that to happen we’d first need to see current sales of multi million dollar three letter dot coms and even then it still wouldn’t happen.

This offer was more likely someone playing around with no intention to pay from the getgo.

OP’s going around disliking posts from those of us here who are infusing reality into this topic just makes anything the OP posts less credible. Does he want input or not?

This was not an auction so there were not any bids just below the €300K. Rather, it was just some jokester who clicked the BIN, or was it even someone offering a massive amount out of the blue? Maybe it was a deliberate attempt to poke fun at the BIN price (if there was a BIN posted), or to poke fun at the domain itself, who knows.

I think the OP now recognizes the invalidity of the €300K offer and that’s a mature sensible attitude.

Well, you are entitled to say what you want, but since this is my thread, I can dislike when I dislike. For one, simply because you don't know or it's not on NameBios or DNJournal does not mean the sales did not happen, actually there's probably more privately undisclosed sales then publicly announced sales all around the world if you really know what you are talking about.

For two, you sounded like those ignorant non-domainers that commented on value they don't appreciate, then think it is not worth it to everyone around the continent, simple self-centred mindset which I also dislike, oh you are selling this.com for 1,000,000 USD? Sorry I think it's only worth 100 bucks, have fun selling them in your dream. Simply because you don't think they are value for what "you" think does not matter, people negotiating with us before and still are see the value is all that matters.

And last, I can price and sell what I want whether it's 3 Millions, 300K or 30K, that was bid to buy and went under couple rounds of negotiation to settled at that price, you're being self-centric ignorant again thinking it was simply a toss of BIN. And my BIN is above this now, yet I still got buyers negotiating with me at the moment, you are probably gonna say something like oh because I don't know or I can't see evidence it's probably in your head or bluffing. Think what you like to think, but I can dislike whatever I want whenever I feel you are talking non-sense. Or you can leave this thread clean by not commenting, I feel I have more to talk to with most other people in this thread.

To toss you a few mentionable ones since you are not in the circle, then again you probably gonna say oh it's not on Namebio or been verified, it's fake, whatever, I know those people so think what you like.

2.app for 390K RMB end of Dec.
5.app for 420K RMB end of May,
Caipiao.app (lotto in Chinese pinyin) sold over 1M RMB on 26th of July
Gay.app sold to Blued.com at 1M USD at end of May
123.app at 60K RMB 13th of Dec
928.app 915.app 850.app for 110K RMB
Host.app 100K RMB
Sichuan.APP 56K RMB
333.app 60K RMB
777.app 60K RMB
555.app 60K RMB
AV.app 6 figures RMB
19.app mid 6 figures RMB sold early Jan

FYI, most domainers in the Chinese market as well as other none-English speaking countries I know do not put their sales on Namebio/DNJournal, does not mean they don't exist, simply means you are not in the circle of information, too bad. .APP domains sold numerously on daily basis in all sorts of domainer groups, privately. So are other extensions, you will be pretty silly to think Namebio/DNJournal/Namepros are all that is to them.

 

[xynames]

Unfortunately, not one of the sales you claim is verified. But we do know of many offers for .app that did not close, including the one you wrote about in this thread.

For example:
https://www.namepros.com/threads/here-we-go-again-gay-app-sold.1083100/

I think he's saying the sale didn't happen. Posting fake sales is the most common way to try pump up an extension, it happens all the time with new extensions, I remember the $1.6 million sale of Horse.ae when .ae names became available to anyone.

Anyway it’s just common sense. The dot app domains aren’t being used for much of anything. Even that gay.app is just a redirect. You want us to believe that a company paid that kind of money for a mere redirect of a little used extension? If the .app people are going to fabricate sales prices at least have the stories make sense.

It’s like - real estate - dot app is not Beverly Hills. It’s not Knightsbridge. It’s not La Jolla. Until the value of corroborated closed sales justify its valuation dot app is going to remain lower middle class property.

Your argument is that if I try to sell my house in the middle of the Mojave Desert for thirteen million and keep talking about how great it is to live in the hot desolate desert that eventually it will sell for my asking price. Valuations just don’t work that way.

A little used extension like dot app with extremely low volume, mostly low dollar closed sales, is going to remain light blue colored Monopoly property until verified sales say otherwise. I can’t even think of a a functioning dot app website that is big yet.

No offense - just reality.

 

[illumy]

Unfortunately, not one of the sales you claim is verified. But we do know of many offers for .app that did not close, including the one you wrote about in this thread.

For example:
https://www.namepros.com/threads/here-we-go-again-gay-app-sold.1083100/


Anyway it’s just common sense. The dot app domains aren’t being used for much of anything. Even that gay.app is just a redirect. You want us to believe that a company paid that kind of money for a mere redirect of a little used extension? If the .app people are going to fabricate sales prices at least have the stories make sense.

It’s like - real estate - dot app is not Beverly Hills. It’s not Knightsbridge. It’s not La Jolla. Until the value of corroborated closed sales justify its valuation dot app is going to remain lower middle class property.

Your argument is that if I try to sell my house in the middle of the Mojave Desert for thirteen million and keep talking about how great it is to live in the hot desolate desert that eventually it will sell for my asking price. Valuations just don’t work that way.

A little used extension like dot app with extremely low volume, mostly low dollar closed sales, is going to remain light blue colored Monopoly property until verified sales say otherwise. I can’t even think of a a functioning dot app website that is big yet.

No offense - just reality.

I don't fully agree with your metaphor comparing domain extension to regions of property, because districts are obvious where domain extensions are not. You can live in your household thinking the world is only as big as your house and neighborhood can reach. You can believe whoever's random post and take Namebio and what else being verified or not as evidence to the existence of sales, like I said it doesn't matter, believe what you believe, doesn't matter to us. I can throw more than a dozen decent .APP sites at your face but then I thought hell why bother, you either do your homework yourself why should I? You're not prospect investor nor user of the extension and probably will never be, I already said too much. Yes you know everything, everything not recognized by you or Namebio or whatever does not exist, if that makes you happy.

By the way the seller of gay.app is a personal friend of mine in Guangzhou and we've met in Shenzhen, he's also a very well known domainer in the Chinese market, too bad he does not exist nor the deal of gay.app according to your believe because it's not verified by you nor Namebio, rofl, like seriously ask anybody in the Chinese market and see if they know what Namebio is. You are in a small circle thinking that's all to a circle. I don't. I'm in the circle but I don't think that's all to it.

 

[poweredbyme]

"Make offer" causes negotiations. Purchase decision can change quickly, quicker than most of you think.
Main reason of non-payment is absence of an instant purchase option.

We can see the same pattern in other human relations. I can give 2 examples at the moment:
1 -Finding a job:
They will hire someone else, if they told you that "we will call you"

2 - Romantic relation
He/she will like someone else, if he/she told you that "I am busy tonight for hanging out. But I will call you as soon as I have free time,"

Someone will be called later for sure but he/she will not be you.
The person who made offer and didn't pay will purchase a domain for sure but it will not be yours.

 

[xynames]

The reality ... is that after being listed for two days a two letter dot app can’t even get a $100 bid
https://www.namepros.com/threads/ot-app.1121352/
which is further evidence of how the extension is struggling.

 

[illumy]

The reality ... is that after being listed for two days a two letter dot app can’t even get a $100 bid
https://www.namepros.com/threads/ot-app.1121352/
which is further evidence of how the extension is struggling.

rofl, why don't you mind your own business than caring about some extension you desperately want to insult with? Mind your own business while we are happily selling in "our own" circle. Childish much huh?

 

[xynames]

You are posting what others here consider to be deliberate misinformation:

I think he's saying the sale didn't happen. Posting fake sales is the most common way to try pump up an extension, it happens all the time with new extensions, I remember the $1.6 million sale of Horse.ae when .ae names became available to anyone.

so...you keep posting claimed sales without any backup, we keep posting proof that your claims are gainsaid by real evidence.

Who knows...maybe the 300K offer was from one of your "inner circle" and this entire thread is just a pump. Stranger things have happened.

At this point there is no verifiable evidence that dot app domains are selling for much of anything, would you agree?

 

[illumy]

You are posting what others here consider to be deliberate misinformation:



so...you keep posting claimed sales without any backup, we keep posting proof that your claims are gainsaid by real evidence.

Who knows...maybe the 300K offer was from one of your "inner circle" and this entire thread is just a pump. Stranger things have happened.

At this point there is no verifiable evidence that dot app domains are selling for much of anything, would you agree?

No I don't and I felt I'm talking to a p***, you can live in your household and talk to your friendly circle. Next.

 

[xynames]

At this point there is no verifiable evidence that dot app domains are selling for much of anything, would you agree?

Stick to the facts. In the meantime, your name calling and defensiveness tell us something about you.

 

[illumy]

At this point there is no verifiable evidence that dot app domains are selling for much of anything, would you agree?

No I don't, apparently you can't read even though it's in English.

 

[xynames]

Stick to the facts. In the meantime, your name calling and defensiveness tell us something about you.

Why don't you go bid $100. for the two letter dot app, if a three letter dot app is really getting 300K offers.

 

[illumy]

Stick to the facts. In the meantime, your name calling and defensiveness tell us something about you.

Why don't you go bid $100. for the two letter dot app, if a three letter dot app is really getting 300K offers.

Sorry that's "your" facts not mine or ours. Like I said, I could care less about what your opinions are but you too showed how wasteful a person you are.

OT is not a keyword I would want to possess myself. I thought about bidding then I decided not to. Speaking of which I will make a bid right now since all you do is whining like a little g***, like I said it's none of your business rofl.

 

[gilescoley]

More has been sold already for .APP domains. Too bad you are not in the circle.

This is not the case, 15k is the highest publicly reported sale.

Talking about legal action is crazy, its just some kid playing around, you can do that these days online and not be accountable for anything.

My advice is to forget about .app for now and focus on strong extensions, especially being new to the industry. If the extension does pick up in a few years, by all means get involved again and try and make some sales, but at the moment, its really not worth it, not with around 13 reported sales. Yes there may be unreported sales, but that will only be a small handful.

 

[illumy]

This is not the case, 15k is the highest publicly reported sale.

Talking about legal action is crazy, its just some kid playing around, you can do that these days online and not be accountable for anything.

My advice is to forget about .app for now and focus on strong extensions, especially being new to the industry. If the extension does pick up in a few years, by all means get involved again and try and make some sales, but at the moment, its really not worth it, not with around 13 reported sales. Yes there may be unreported sales, but that will only be a small handful.

Well, you can stuck in your head thinking the world is only true whether it's publicly reported or not but in reality it is not. And you don't even know what you are talking about unfortunately makes me laugh, sad but true. In our community, .APP alone has a combined registered numbers of 10K to 15K domains altogether. And to your face this "only small handful" of .APP sales are more than hundreds in Jan alone. Sad you have no idea. Pretty stupid to think the reported sales are bigger proportion to unreported sales, really. Chinese market alone has 1.4 billions population, without counting in other non English speaking countries and count 0.1% of that as domainers and that's more than 1.4 millions in Chinese market alone. Probably only 0.01% of those will think of make "report" sales to English speaking "mainstream" record sites. You truly are sad thinking the world is only as big as you can reach. Your world is a small world, don't count me in.

Oh and many of those bigger .APP domain holders are also well-known and reputable .com & .cn domainers in the Chinese market. You think we're new but actually in fact you sound like one to me for majority of your comments. And if you're PRO as your account suggests, you are a sad story.