.tv Why dont .TV's sell in the major auctions?

[deb]

Why dont .TV's sell in the major auctions? i am not sure if this was covered elsewhere....(plse delete if so)

it just seems strange that whilst we are believers in the extension the big guys/domain investors/VC's steer clear of it. did we get it wrong? is .net and .org(even .mobi) currently a better investment?

i dont recall any major .tv sales at any recent "industry" auctions.

it will happen im sure in time, just a little bit of doubt creeping in

 

[MillersCrossing]

Thanks for this clarification Equity. As such, the people we need to lobby are Verisign. They should be able to afford to take a longer term view than prevails at present...

Let me save equity the trouble and quote on his behalf - Verisign do not give a flying fux about .tv - its a tiny part of their business....

There you go Eq - you owe me a beer!

 

[memorablename]

Let me save equity the trouble and quote on his behalf - Verisign do not give a flying fux about .tv - its a tiny part of their business....

There you go Eq - you owe me a beer!

IMO, any lobbying would have a reasonable chance of being successful if they don't give a flying fux about .tv.

If it's a tiny part of their business, then its not worth getting a bad name for, and if they are distorting the market for a TLD that defines the new online video age (as indeed they are), then that could lead to a bad name in some quarters sooner or later...

 

[equity78]

haha James well they certainly do not care about what domainers think that is for sure. It is a very small part of Verisign which they paid $45 million for. Hopefully they divest the .tv corp to a company interested in running .tv as their top priority.

Verisign moves slow I once was told it would take 1 year to get a link on www.tv to the .tv subforum. .tv not a priority and the only thing they do care about is premium fees and premium renewal.

To the question about Demand Media I am sure they mark some premiums up and get a commission on the premium domains sold.

 

[SKG]

Most of the higher quality names have premium registrations fees on them and for the non premium the $25 registration fee is a major issues, it means holding costs are 400%+ higher than other extensions. The premium registration fees and high prices for regular registration fees is why there is not a lot of profit in this extension.

SKG:Good domainer perspective. $25 dollars is terrible "holding cost."



".com" means "the internet", everyone who actually uses that internet knows that. In what part of the world is .com not recognized? Let me guess, some place where they haven't heard of light bulbs yet?

SKG:.com means company but I guess you can say it means internet like I can say .TV mean Tv/video and not Tuvulu. By the way, do Germans have more loyalty to .de or .com, and how about the UK.



It is a bit like saying "info" or "to" means more than "com", who cares, we are talking about extensions here, it is ".com" not "com".

SKG:I was not aware there is a "." in front of every tld. JOKE



The reason why they don't do well in auctions in simply because the profits aren't there, it is hard to suggest something different to what "the scoreboard" is saying.

SKG:Funny how I sold more than three .hk totalling over 15K and the reg fee on those domains make reg fee .tv seem cheap. By the way, they had little to no traffic and were sitting parked earning squat.

:hearts:

 

[snoop]

SKG:.com means company but I guess you can say it means internet like I can say .TV mean Tv/video and not Tuvulu.

The technical meaning of .com is 'commercial' not company, in reality it means the Internet. You can see just how irrelevant the technical meaning of an extension is when domainers don't even know.

By the way, do Germans have more loyalty to .de or .com, and how about the UK.

I don't know. You stated ".com is a giant but it is not recognized in every part of the world is it", that is what I was disagree on, the only people who do not recognize .com is people who aren't on the Internet.

 

[antonis12]

If the buyers at this event think non traffic domains are worthless then why are .mobi's, .info's and .us names selling for 4/5/6 figures there?

.info and .us sales are fairly limited relative to .com in the TRAFFIC auctions. there are a handful each time.

.mobi does indeed sell, but I would be shocked snoop if you are a believer in .mobi at the current prices, at the current time.

If you are, I would greatly look forward to understanding your rationale for .mobi prices, taking as a hardnosed a perspective to revenue potential as you do with .tv. .mobi also has the registry capturing value (just in upfront auctions as opposed to leases) and I am pretty sure has even less type-in traffic than .tv.

The technical meaning of .com is 'commercial' not company, in reality it means the Internet. You can see just how irrelevant the technical meaning of an extension is when domainers don't even know.

I don't know. You stated ".com is a giant but it is not recognized in every part of the world is it", that is what I was disagree on, the only people who do not recognize .com is people who aren't on the Internet.

.com is the best TLD. I don't think anyone on this forum is going to make a serious argument that if they could trade their .tv's for the equivalent .coms that they wouldn't

The question is all about relative value. Many on this board bought .tv's at 1/1000 the cost of the equivalent .com believing that the appropriate ratio is something closer to 1/100 or 1/10.

The changes in .tv market the last year have been consistent with that point of view.

 

[snoop]

.info and .us sales are fairly limited relative to .com in the TRAFFIC auctions. there are a handful each time.

.mobi does indeed sell, but I would be shocked snoop if you are a believer in .mobi at the current prices, at the current time.

If you are, I would greatly look forward to understanding your rationale for .mobi prices, taking as a hardnosed a perspective to revenue potential as you do with .tv. .mobi also has the registry capturing value (just in upfront auctions as opposed to leases) and I am pretty sure has even less type-in traffic than .tv.

The .mobi market is what it is, I believe it will perform poorly personally, but I expect no worse than .tv or .info (in terms of relative gains/losses). Looking at sales data it is quite undeniable the .mobi and .info is selling at far better levels than .tv.

Also how am I taking a "hardnosed a perspective to revenue potential"?, I suspect people are trying to put words in my mouth with all this talk about type in traffic, it isn't me bringing it up. Seems one can't mention the word "auction" or "domainer" without people screaming about ppc revenue.

The question is all about relative value. Many on this board bought .tv's at 1/1000 the cost of the equivalent .com believing that the appropriate ratio is something closer to 1/100 or 1/10.

Well sir, those people are fooling themselves because even .mobi and .info which are selling at far higher prices than .tv overall would not average 1% of the price of the same .com. To think 10% is borderline lunacy, the number of reported 5 figure sales this year for .tv could be counted on one hand, whilst the number of six figure sales could be counted with no hands at all! (now please don't tell me about all the unreported sales, because that is true for every extension).

 

[MillersCrossing]

i agree snoop, with veryvery few exceptions, at least for the next five years, to expect 1/100 would be lunacy, and even in five years time, i suspect that only the top ten .tv keywords will reach the 1/100 ratio...

right now, 1/1000 would be nice

 

[equity78]

Here is the bottom line .tv has allowed many people here, which no offense are the people I care about, do not tell me stories about most domainers I am not interested. This forum has educated and taught people how to and helped them make money in .tv domains. These people came to the domain table in 2005,2006 and 2007 rather late for dinner at the domain table.

They have been able to buy domains registered in .com/net/org in 1997 or earlier. They have taken small budgets in most cases and have had returns that far outweigh the top Hedge fund returns over the last 3 years.

I came to DOT TV with $100 regged screwed.tv $29.99 AUG 04, 1999.tv $29.99 10/04 and LCD.tv $29.99 12/04 SOLD LCD.tv for $4200 spent $500 to Reg six.tv 7/05 which generated $2000 a year til 07 when it was sold for $25,000.

I would not have been able to do that in .com starting in 2004 turn $100 into $31,200 plus all the other domains and about 30 reseller sales ranging from $30 to $650. Holding 38 outright and 4 owned in LLC.

That is what I have always thought was the selling point on .tv the ability to come to the table late and have opportunity for Investment,resale and development of domains taken in every major extension. Second selling point it is a universally known phrase with universal meaning no matter what the language. It is intuitve especially for adult names,video names, numbers, geo and entertainment.

Would JOHN TV have been able to buy a domain like ME as cheaply as he did in 2005? I think not, and then turn around and sell it to Demand Media for an incredible ROI.

Domain Acrobat has made hundreds of sales coming to the table late would he have made that same roi in .com ? I do not think so.

Would Millers have been able to come into the .com game in 2006 and acquire the domains he did in .tv and make the sales he has?

Would the people who found GEO.tv in 2007 been able to do that in .info let alone .com ? NO

Sneakers.com has amassed a portfolio in .tv that would not have been possible in .biz in 2005 for the prices he has.

List goes on SKG has had great sales,Atypical great sales, Searching has had hundreds. People looking to buy like Local Experts and finster have put together portfolios in 2007 that are quality .tv portfolios. Len was late to the .tv table able to get a domain like True and flip for 7 fold. This is the opportunity .tv has provided this community. This is not a public service it is how some people spend their discretionary income and some have done extremely well. It is an individual business you can share ideas but at the end of the day it is on you or your company.

98% of the people here could not get an invite to TRAFFIC so why care if .tv sells there? You have to question why you would get upset about an extension not selling at a conference that does not feel you are worthy to attend the conference in the first place.

 

[snoop]

Lots of people have come to the domain market in 2004 and later and made large profits. I read an article about one person who entered this year and has made several hundred thousand dollars with more established extensions. The point I make is that the returns in .tv are well below the rest of the market overall, and large sales are far rarer than in .info, .mobi etc as can be seen in sales charts and auction results. The odds are far better elsewhere, that is not to say there won't be some cases of success. To those who have done well congratulations, but let's not pretend this extension has provided good returns overall.

 

[equity78]

Oh sure people have made more but probably with a budget of more than $100, secondly my point was people here have made money and from what I have read here, more than they have made in other extensions.

Then there is the unrealized value names not sold but incredible domains for cheap prices I will take WET.tv for $500 Tea.tv for $250 and Everything.tv for $24.99

JOHN TV is sitting on a ton of domains that are not sold so there is not a sales value placed but I think he has a valuable portfolio. Same for SKG, Millers, Searching,LocalExperts, Sneakers.com and many other people on the forum

To those who have done well congratulations, but let's not pretend this extension has provided good returns overall.

I can say it has for those that have been ardent members here and at the end of the day that's who I care about. There are much bigger causes in the world to be concerned about than those who did not come here get a great education, and a gameplan.

 

[snoop]

Oh sure people have made more but probably with a budget of more than $100

I really don't think many of the people who have done well out of domains have started with much. An empty credit card is probably about average.

secondly my point was people here have made money and from what I have read here, more than they have made in other extensions.

That is only logical, whatever extension people have made a lot from it is probably more than they made in other extensions. How many people have done well though, from looking at the (lousy) sales data and auction results it certainly doesn't look like many.

 

[MrRhee]

I really don't think many of the people who have done well out of domains have started with much. An empty credit card is probably about average.



That is only logical, whatever extension people have made a lot from it is probably more than they made in other extensions. How many people have done well though, from looking at the (lousy) sales data and auction results it certainly doesn't look like many.

Snoop, what LOUSY data are you referring to? I have made money with .com, .mobi, .tv, etc... With .TV alone, I have received many 5 figure offers, and they are nearing mid-5 range... some of the offers are for my premiums, and quite a few are for my non-premiums. None of my names is listed for sale, these are end-users/reseller inquiries direct to my email address listed in whois. Even with the premium renewal prices, .TV has given me the chance to invest in 2 & 3 character domains and many other generics that I could never hope to possess in other extensions. I bought the premium Celebs.TV and that name alone has received countless offers from celebrity bloggers, gossip sites, etc... I am sure that Celebrity.TV, Celebrities.TV, Celeb.TV also receive numerous offers, but judging from my offers alone, I could cash out by selling Celebs.TV and for an easy mid-5 figures. I would never have been able to get my hands on a similar domain in other extensions if it weren't for .TVs pricing structure and thankfully, the majority of other domainers who hate the extension. Their loss.

Snoop, I just find it strange that you are so down on .TV and I'm curious... why? What extensions do you dabble in? I'm seriously interested in learning your point of view and expertise.

?

 

[equity78]

Well how many people even bothered with .tv before this forum started Elequa,Igal,Deb, Ben Van Dyk DiscoverNow and maybe a couple others. I came here in 04 with the universal response to .tv ".tv sucks" I thought great. there were 5 people that talked .tv. Badger,Argos,AMCY.org,.mike and myself. Whole reason the forum was started. Many more came in after that and it has grown pretty well for 2 years. THe forum with a forum has made the mainstays here money and some fringe players have also made money so IMO it has been a plus.

The pricing structure will always be a problem, but at least here it has been explained to people and they should understand the game and how to play it or find another game.

For those acting like it a get rich quick deal, .tv will never be that so they are wasting time and money.

Now is the time for those with great domains to focus on development.

 

[snoop]

Snoop, what LOUSY data are you referring to?

The sales data from dnjournal and auction results.

Snoop, I just find it strange that you are so down on .TV and I'm curious... why? What extensions do you dabble in? I'm seriously interested in learning your point of view and expertise.

?

I am mainly into .com, with some .net/.org/.co.uk, even some .tv (maybe 30 or so very low quality ones).

 

[memorablename]

Well sir, those people are fooling themselves because even .mobi and .info which are selling at far higher prices than .tv overall would not average 1% of the price of the same .com. To think 10% is borderline lunacy, the number of reported 5 figure sales this year for .tv could be counted on one hand, whilst the number of six figure sales could be counted with no hands at all! (now please don't tell me about all the unreported sales, because that is true for every extension).

If that was true, NewYork.com should be worth more than $11.6 million as NewYork.info recently sold for $116,000 Someone else has posted that the the .TV is not worth 1/1000 of the .com. If that were true, hot.com should be worth more than $35 million as hot.tv recently sold for $35,000. etc, etc..

I have some good quality .com's that I registered back in the 1990's when it was still possible to register good quality .com's. I am relatively new to the .TV market but IMO, opportunities to maximize your return on investment exist in .TV now that simply do not exist in .com today (stating the obvious). The premium pricing structure and other things already discussed distort the .TV market but even so, the ROI on .TV's can be quite good. ...

IMHO, with domains, what's important is getting your strategy right. With the wrong strategy, even the biggest booms can pass you by and you could still struggle to find buyers or monetize your portfolio. And I speak as someone who has been a domainer through domaining booms and slumps and booms again...

 

[antonis12]

The sales data from dnjournal and auction results.

I am mainly into .com, with some .net/.org/.co.uk, even some .tv (maybe 30 or so very low quality ones).

God bless you snoop. at least you are consistent. every two months you pop in this sub-forum to tell everyone what idiots we are for wasting in time in .tv when we could me making 5x as much money in other TLDs. LOL. I appreciate your kind sentiments.

At the end of July of this year, I went back and did my manual analysis of every .tv sales I know about on DNJournal, on this forum and elsewhere.

2005: $110K (7 domains of which over 50% was 1 domain)
2006: $43K (26 domains)
half year 2007: $485K (220 domains)

So the market is developing just fine. Names that I wouldn't register last year for $35 when they were available, people are now selling for $500 to $1,000.

Yes, that is not dramatic on an absolute basis, it is not making the front page of DNJournal, but it is great on a relative basis.

Will .tv ever be as deep as .com? of course not, you have to restrict yourself to higher quality keywords. The folks that have been doing that the last couple of years on this board are going to do very well for themselves.

 

[jeffoverman]

Hi Everyone,

National-your right on! Look at the figures and 2007 was great!

Equity is right and very thoughtful posts and there are some nice domainers here and respect like SKG, Local Experts, Religion.Tv owner(forgot his name sorry.), Johntv and a probably a good 10 others I follow very carefully, respect and when they talk everyone listens.

Look at National. Perfect example-he backs up his words-look at his portfolio. Is here on here like us all day-no much and he is a creating a solid business with his vc money. He is not all talk or show. Now National.tv is what .Tv stands for, Justin.tv and etc.

As far as sales go-I can tell you this 95 percent of my time I do private sales and I dont care what people think or nor do I care. Exception to Equity -I bought Bruins.tv and have 2 pending more names with him. If it wasnt post to get sale I would have pm him on these-no one would have known I bought them and told him he cant disclose who buyer was. I do this all the time. I am talking some higher end names as well.

Then I have a buddy who taught me this and he bought a .tv for 18000 bucks. Guess what folks-it hasnt been leaked and its on a forum or in a journal sale. There are deals like this occuring every day.

Snoop the only thing your right now is .mobi sales. For some odd reason mobi sales are high vs .tv sales. I own mobi names-tiny bit disappointed in the growth on them and registrations. I love the .tv more so then .mobi names but I do give snoop credit-100k, 200k sales on mobi sales in auctions. Like insurance.mobi. I dont see insurance.tv being sold in an auction.

Snoop that was your only point I agree on...The rest of your talk and you come in here-I dont know you but I your telling us were all dumb. What ever floats your boat-perks of free speech.

.Tv names will be on an auction list by next year. We are gaining so much momentum weather you believe or not snoop.

Cheers to .tv members here and great fortunes. In 5 years time, mainly GEO owners like SKG and others lets call Carnival cruise line or the Ritz down at the caymans and just rent the whole resort for a week or a full carnival ship dedicated for .tv owners only. (save me a small room on the ship please since I am a small player). Sorry snoop-your not invited. The only non .Tv person invited is Frank Schilling because I respect him and does amazing things for dot com. In 5 years time-from today I will look back and arrange all of this we do a big .tv bash as we made our millions. Is this cocky? Sure-thats how much I believe in .tv and be a great time in meeting .tv name pros members and we can all look back on this and reflect.

To the .tv bashers here-Snoop if you need a job in a 5 years time you can be my private driver lol...

Correction...National is not on here everyday and he backs his words up by builing and forming a business in .tv space..Not wasting his time here-he is probably top 3 tier in .tv topic. Demand/Justin.tv/national.tv.

My puppy is being nutty and havent had enough coffee this morning as I wrote this up.

 

[bennyboy]

Here is something relevant to the topic, gayline.com is up for auction for $51,000 on buydomains. I am not saying its worth that, or will sell for that, but thats the asking price. I just gayline.tv in auction for $5 and am certain its worth more than that.
npr.tv is just finishing auction on sedo for $110 but the .com would go for at least $10k. Hopefully soon .tvs will start to shift for a tenth of their .com counterparts.

 

[hullswingerscom]

at the end of the day dot tv sales are not looking good but who said this is going to be easy...ten years from now we will know.but all the best to all with there names