The religious discussion thread

[Archangel]

This thread was created to bring a local new story to light, which can be viewed below:

JACKSON, Ohio (AP) — An Ohio school district decided Tuesday night to keep a portrait of Jesus hanging in the school where it's been 65 years, denying a federal lawsuit's claim the portrait's display unconstitutionally promotes religion in a public school.

The Jackson City Schools board offered a constitutional justification of its own in voting 4-0 to keep the portrait up in its middle school, saying it must protect students' free speech rights. The vote drew cheers and applause from the dozens of people gathered in the elementary school gymnasium.

Read all of it here: http://news.yahoo.com/ohio-school-b...xzBHB0A3N0b3J5cGFnZQR0ZXN0A1Rlc3RfQUZD;_ylv=3

I posted his here @ NP to see what ppl had to say on the issue. As it turns out, this sparked many debates. I've considered closing this thread but after multiple suggestions, I decided to keep it open. Feel free to join in the topics but per forum rules, please refrain from obscene, threatening, rude, or insulting posts.

 

[verbster]

Why are you guys bringing in the US into this argument? Sweden has ONE law for the whole country, NOT many different laws like you say the US has.

Must be a huge coincidence then, that rapes increased fourfold during the period of Sweden's open-door immigration policy from mostly Muslim countries.

So according to you guys, it must be the Christians that are doing most of the raping there.

There appears to be some evidence of a higher ratio of offenses being attributed to immigrants and persons born in Sweden not of two Swedish parents. However, because of Sweden's method of (not) recording certain information, it's hard to know the religious affiliation. I did see this 1997-2001 study that said, "Slightly under 60 percent of the almost 1,520,000 offences ... registered during the period covered by the study can be attributed to persons who were born in Sweden to two Swedish-born parents," while the other 40% were committed "by people born abroad" and "Swedish-born people with a foreign background". It did not state religious affiliations.

 

[GILSAN]

There appears to be some evidence of a higher ratio of offenses being attributed to immigrants and persons born in Sweden not of two Swedish parents. However, because of Sweden's method of (not) recording certain information, it's hard to know the religious affiliation. I did see this 1997-2001 study that said, "Slightly under 60 percent of the almost 1,520,000 offences ... registered during the period covered by the study can be attributed to persons who were born in Sweden to two Swedish-born parents," while the other 40% were committed "by people born abroad" and "Swedish-born people with a foreign background". It did not state religious affiliations.

Sweden does not show certain data like religious affiliation or racial groups because of their Liberal political correctness in not wanting to show the inconvenient truth, except when it suits their political agenda.

But i'ts really easy to add 2+2 together and get the correct result, which is: 4

In the past 20 years the main countries that immigrants (a large % of which are illegal) arrived from, are:

Iraq
Iran
Bosnia-Herzegovina
Poland
(Former) Yogoslavia
Somalia
Turkey
Syria
Lebanon
Afghanistan
Eritrea
China

As you can see from the list, the majority of immigrants come from predominantly Muslim countries (except for the countries in blue).

I rest my case

 

[JB Lions]

I rest my case

Not until you address this, you keep skipping it over:

"Sweden reformed its sex crime legislation and made the legal definition of rape much wider in 2005, which largely explains the significant increase in the number of reported rapes in the ten-year period of 2004-2013."

"So, for instance, when a woman comes to the police and she says my husband or my fiance raped me almost every day during the last year, the police have to record each of these events, which might be more than 300 events. In many other countries it would just be one record - one victim, one type of crime, one record."

 

[GILSAN]

"So, for instance, when a woman comes to the police and she says my husband or my fiance raped me almost every day during the last year, the police have to record each of these events, which might be more than 300 events. In many other countries it would just be one record - one victim, one type of crime, one record."

Raped 300 times? In that case, you have a really stupid woman who keeps going back to her husband/fiancé to get raped and humiliated every day, except for one day a week to take a rest or perhaps get some hospital treatment.

The other possibility is that you have the world's most incompetent, pathetic and insensitive Police force that do absolutely nothing to help this woman, getting raped everyday. . The Swedish Police Force may have orders to be Politically correct about certain shocking or embarrassing data about certain sections of the population, but to allow a woman to be raped every day and do nothing, except take notes, will only happen in Hollywood or in your imagination

Don't you see how ridiculous your argument is? I'm willing to bet that you don't

Why don't you just accept facts instead of defending the indefensible? Is it because it would be politically incorrect to do it, or is it because you get pleasure in contradicting me all the time?

Look at what's happened in yesterday's European elections. The people here are tired of all the Liberal BS open-door immigration policy that is slowly destroying our values. We are full of immigrants with strange cultures, who don't want to integrate, many of which come over with the main objective of milking our system, so as to get everything for free. Free unemployment benefits, free housing, free schooling, free medical and dental benefits etc.

UKIP in the UK, National Front in France, other right wing parties throughout Europe gained a lot of votes on yesterdays European Elections.... and why did this happen? Yes you guessed it.... this is thanks to all the excessive immigration from people that don't even want to integrate into European society, especially Muslims. They want to dominate and take over Europe and then create Sharia Law countries. They openly admit it. It's no secret.

Viva UKIP... Viva National Front... the people have spoken Don't bother to reply to me JBL, as I won't answer you back. Today was an exception

 

[JB Lions]

My argument isn't ridiculous, it's a fact that - "Sweden reformed its sex crime legislation and made the legal definition of rape much wider in 2005"

That's a fact. The truth is, you hate Muslims, so you want nothing more to tie Muslims going to a country meaning more rape. And the only country you came up with, was the one that changed the legal definition of rape. Not any other countries that have Muslims immigrating there. For what you want to be true, we should be seeing rape go up in other countries as well. So where is it? Link to it. You just mentioned France, so did rape go up there? Since it "increased fourfold" in Sweden, because according to you, it's the Muslims, I'm sure you can show me some stats right of that happening elsewhere.

 

[DU]

I would... but I'd rather beat my head against a brick wall...

 

[GILSAN]

I would... but I'd rather beat my head against a brick wall...

Hey DU, try not to beat your head too hard.... we don't want the brick wall to break :D

 

[Kate]

Gilsan, you need help seriously. You don't know what you are talking about.
What is the motivation for your far right leanings ? Since when Madeira is full of immigrants ?

 

[GILSAN]

Gilsan, you need help seriously. You don't know what you are talking about.

I need help for what? Is it because I'm not a leftie, like the majority in this thread and I don't agree with lefties?

You come into this thread without an opinion on the matter being discussed, yet you say I'm wrong? Wrong in putting out true and obvious facts?

 

[GILSAN]

Meriam, 27, was sentenced to death by hanging earlier this month after being found guilty of converting from Islam to Christianity and marrying a Christian man, U.S. citizen Daniel Wani, who lives in Manchester, New Hampshire.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...stian-gives-birth-baby-girl-squalid-jail.html

But , not all is lost: An Islamic Sharia judge said she could be spared the death penalty if she publicly renounced her faith and becomes a Muslim once more.

Such a tolerant Religion!!!! Maybe Michelle Obama should invite the press and show up with a placard saying: hashtag "Bring back Meriam"

 

[verbster]

Meriam, 27, was sentenced to death by hanging earlier this month after being found guilty of converting from Islam to Christianity and marrying a Christian man, U.S. citizen Daniel Wani, who lives in Manchester, New Hampshire.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...stian-gives-birth-baby-girl-squalid-jail.html

But , not all is lost: An Islamic Sharia judge said she could be spared the death penalty if she publicly renounced her faith and becomes a Muslim once more.

Such a tolerant Religion!!!! Maybe Michelle Obama should invite the press and show up with a placard saying: hashtag "Bring back Meriam"

No matter where or when you are, there are atrocities committed in the name of religion. They all have their ugly sides. Should all Christians be judged by the Rwandan Genocide? The Ugandan death penalty for homosexuality? The current Central African atrocities? Stuff so gruesome on both sides, it's beyond belief.

Why would you bring Michelle Obama into it?

 

[GILSAN]

No matter where or when you are, there are atrocities committed in the name of religion. They all have their ugly sides. Should all Christians be judged by the Rwandan Genocide? The Ugandan death penalty for homosexuality? The current Central African atrocities? Stuff so gruesome on both sides, it's beyond belief.

Why would you bring Michelle Obama into it?

For starters the Rwandan Genocide has nothing to do with the Christian religion. It was an tribal conflict, The death penalty in Uganda has nothing to do with the Christian religion: it's a cultural thing that's pretty widespread throughout Africa. It just doesn't get reported the way the Ugandan one has been.

Only the Central African one is indeed a Religious conflict, because once again it involves Muslims, just like it's close neighbor, Nigeria, where the Muslim Boko Haram are murdering and kidnapping Christians on a daily basis, in the name of their Prophet.

Funny you didn't mention the almost 300 girls, that were kidnapped and forced to convert to Islam, otherwise they would be sold as slaves.

The vast majority of conflicts in the world involve the religion you love to defend.

As usual you are always defending the Religion of Peace, but never show the atrocities from the other side which are hugely superior in numbers.

 

[Kate]

The death penalty in Uganda has nothing to do with the Christian religion: it's a cultural thing that's pretty widespread throughout Africa.

That is untrue. It has a lot to do with religion. The influential Church of Uganda supports theanti-homosexuality bills.
http://churchofuganda.org/wp-conten...tion-on-the-Anti-Homosexuality-Bill-2009..pdf

Not to mention that US evangelist groups are also very active in the area, fostering anti-gay sentiment, something they cannot do in their home country.

As usual you apply double standards to the news.
When something goes bad in a Muslim country, only religion (Islam) is to blame. Not cultural factors, ancestral customs or simply the tactics of the political régime of the day.
On the other hand, when something goes bad in a country that is at least half Christian like Uganda for instance, then suddenly it's not about religion anymore. Never.

 

[GILSAN]

That is untrue. It has a lot to do with religion. The influential Church of Uganda supports theanti-homosexuality bills.
http://churchofuganda.org/wp-conten...tion-on-the-Anti-Homosexuality-Bill-2009..pdf

Not to mention that US evangelist groups are also very active in the area, fostering anti-gay sentiment, something they cannot do in their home country.

Wrong. It's more cultural than religious. Most African countries don't really tolerate gays. They may not have explicit laws like Uganda has, but they do the same as Uganda. They don't really tolerate gays. Zimbabwe is an example that comes to mind, where their President Mugabe openly says that gays should never exist. But there are many others. It's cultural.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...al-rant-David-Camerons-global-gay-rights.html

What about Islam... how do they treat gays? You forgot to mention that didn't you? They have ZERO tolerance towards them in practically all countries where the Religion of Peace dominates.

But it's not only gays they can't tolerate; they can't tolerate Christians or Jews which they refer to as dogs and pigs... and they make sure to teach it to their kids in school as well. If a Muslim converts to Islam... well you know what happens, don't you? Does the same happen when a Christian converts to Islam? I'll bet you won't answer that question

And I'm only mentioning a fraction of the things they don't tolerate. Yea... very tolerant religion indeed

As usual you apply double standards to the news.
When something goes bad in a Muslim country, only religion (Islam) is to blame. Not cultural factors, ancestral customs or simply the tactics of the political régime of the day.
On the other hand, when something goes bad in a country that is at least half Christian like Uganda for instance, then suddenly it's not about religion anymore. Never.

When 95% of the major conflicts going on around the world involves the Religion of Peace, that means that they have most of the blame. Simple as that.

 

[Kate]

Most African countries don't really tolerate gays. They may not have explicit laws like Uganda has, but they do the same as Uganda. They don't really tolerate gays. Zimbabwe is an example that comes to mind, where their President Mugabe openly says that gays should never exist. But there are many others.

Madeira too.

 

[GILSAN]

Madeira too.

Just to prove my point:

(Reuters) - Gambia's President Yahya Jammeh on Tuesday called homosexuals "vermin" and said his government would tackle them in the same way it fights malaria-causing mosquitoes.

The latest comments from Jammeh, who last year branded gays a threat to humanity, coincide with a renewed crackdown on same-sex relationships in Africa, where homosexuality is taboo and illegal in 37 countries.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/18/us-gambia-homosexuality-idUSBREA1H1S820140218

37 countries in Africa.... like I said , it's a cultural thing

 

[verbster]

Just to prove my point:

(Reuters) - Gambia's President Yahya Jammeh on Tuesday called homosexuals "vermin" and said his government would tackle them in the same way it fights malaria-causing mosquitoes.

Jammeh also said he would turn Gambia into an oil-producing country and usher in a new future, despite the fact they appear to have no oil.

After 20 years of iron-fisted rule, his war on malaria-causing mosquitoes has gone nowhere. WHO rates the entire country in the red zone for malaria.

The latest comments from Jammeh, who last year branded gays a threat to humanity, coincide with a renewed crackdown on same-sex relationships in Africa, where homosexuality is taboo and illegal in 37 countries.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/18/us-gambia-homosexuality-idUSBREA1H1S820140218

37 countries in Africa.... like I said , it's a cultural thing

It's true many African countries have laws against sodomy and/or homosexuals, but I'm not sure what your point is. By dismissing the laws and/or the sentiment as a cultural thing, it seems you are saying religion has nothing to do with the laws or beliefs against homosexuality. Are you saying that religion and culture are two separate things, independent of each other?

 

[Kate]

Apparently Gilsan is unaware that even in the EU (Greece for instance) you can do jail time for blasphemy. But as he said, it's a cultural thing, nothing to do with religion. So it's OK. And I am very pleased to see that he is starting to show some concern for the plight of homosexuals worldwide.

 

[GILSAN]

It's true many African countries have laws against sodomy and/or homosexuals, but I'm not sure what your point is. By dismissing the laws and/or the sentiment as a cultural thing, it seems you are saying religion has nothing to do with the laws or beliefs against homosexuality. Are you saying that religion and culture are two separate things, independent of each other?

What I'm saying to you and sdsinc is that the anti gay sentiment in Africa is mostly to do with their cultural beliefs. Most African countries already had laws that outlaws homosexuality.

Some US media saying that Evangelicals are to blame for Uganda coming out with their "new" law is a load of bull. It's cultural. 99.99% of Africans don't accept gay marriage or gay rights, gay behavior etc.

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blo...ing-tide-of-anti-gay-sentiment-in-africa.html

Religious groups didn't have to convince Africans not to like gays. If you believe that then you're living in LaLa Land.

Obama and Hillary tried to pressure African governments about Gay rights, but they didn't appreciate that at all.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Afri...acts-to-Obama-s-pro-gay-rights-foreign-policy

 

[GILSAN]

Apparently Gilsan is unaware that even in the EU (Greece for instance) you can do jail time for blasphemy. But as he said, it's a cultural thing, nothing to do with religion. So it's OK. And I am very pleased to see that he is starting to show some concern for the plight of homosexuals worldwide.

You jump from Uganda's anti-gay laws to Greece's blasphemy laws

What's wrong... you run out of arguments?

Why not give us a complete list of all countries that have blasphemy laws. I'll bet many of them have death sentences... right? And I'll bet you know which ones they are but don't want to tell us... right?