The religious discussion thread

[Archangel]

This thread was created to bring a local new story to light, which can be viewed below:

JACKSON, Ohio (AP) — An Ohio school district decided Tuesday night to keep a portrait of Jesus hanging in the school where it's been 65 years, denying a federal lawsuit's claim the portrait's display unconstitutionally promotes religion in a public school.

The Jackson City Schools board offered a constitutional justification of its own in voting 4-0 to keep the portrait up in its middle school, saying it must protect students' free speech rights. The vote drew cheers and applause from the dozens of people gathered in the elementary school gymnasium.

Read all of it here: http://news.yahoo.com/ohio-school-b...xzBHB0A3N0b3J5cGFnZQR0ZXN0A1Rlc3RfQUZD;_ylv=3

I posted his here @ NP to see what ppl had to say on the issue. As it turns out, this sparked many debates. I've considered closing this thread but after multiple suggestions, I decided to keep it open. Feel free to join in the topics but per forum rules, please refrain from obscene, threatening, rude, or insulting posts.

 

[GILSAN]

Comparing statistics on crimes that have a different criteria across geographies will always allow for flexible interpretations (aka misrepresentation of fact aka lies).

No misrepresentation of these facts in relation to rapes in Sweden. The numbers don't lie and as usual, Liberals want to shut their eyes and ears about this. How does a country like Sweden more than quadruple its rape cases in just 20 years?

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/top-5-countries-highest-rates-rape-1434355

Liberals don't want to hear about it, but I'll tell you. Swedish girls and women can thank their stupid Liberal Governments' pathetic immigration policies in allowing anyone into their country without questioning their criminal background. And Liberal Swedes are still in denial.

 

[Kate]

Perhaps the Swedish interpretation of rape is quite broad. At least that's what Assange must be thinking.

 

[DU]

No misrepresentation of these facts in relation to rapes in Sweden. The numbers don't lie and as usual, Liberals want to shut their eyes and ears about this.

Can you please compare the number of "minor rape" cases in Sweden with the number of "minor rape" cases in the UK. Can you also compare the numbers of "major rape" cases in Sweden with those in any European country of your choice.

 

[GILSAN]

Can you please compare the number of "minor rape" cases in Sweden with the number of "minor rape" cases in the UK. Can you also compare the numbers of "major rape" cases in Sweden with those in any European country of your choice.

Compare "minor rape" and "major rape" cases and compare it to the UK? No idea what you are trying to get at?

 

[JB Lions]

No misrepresentation of these facts in relation to rapes in Sweden. The numbers don't lie and as usual, Liberals want to shut their eyes and ears about this. How does a country like Sweden more than quadruple its rape cases in just 20 years?

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/top-5-countries-highest-rates-rape-1434355

Liberals don't want to hear about it, but I'll tell you. Swedish girls and women can thank their stupid Liberal Governments' pathetic immigration policies in allowing anyone into their country without questioning their criminal background. And Liberal Swedes are still in denial.

"Sweden reformed its sex crime legislation and made the legal definition of rape much wider in 2005, which largely explains the significant increase in the number of reported rapes in the ten-year period of 2004-2013."

"So, for instance, when a woman comes to the police and she says my husband or my fiance raped me almost every day during the last year, the police have to record each of these events, which might be more than 300 events. In many other countries it would just be one record - one victim, one type of crime, one record."

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-19592372

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Sweden

So Muslims widened the legal definition of rape in 2005? Sweden is the only country Muslims immigrate to? Not America or other countries? If rape goes up because Muslims go to your country, rapes should be going up in other countries as well? Or Muslims just like Swedish women better or something?

I was checking the stats for the United States, since we have 6-7 million Muslims. Figured, based in Gilsan's reasoning, the 2 biggest states will have the most Muslims:

per 100k
50. South Dakota - 70.2 - According to a 2001 survey, 86% of South Dakotans described themselves as being members of a Christian denomination, while 8% said that they were not religious and 3% claimed faith in a non-Christian religion.

51. Alaska - 79.7
Christian - 79.0%
Islam - 0.5%

 

[DU]

Compare "minor rape" and "major rape" cases and compare it to the UK? No idea what you are trying to get at?

That rape laws in Sweden <> rape laws in UK or other countries and therefore unadjusted numbers make no sense.
You don't have a control by which you adjust to get a "common" definition.

In the US, for example, rape has different laws by states. In New York, no means no. In other states I heard you need to prove force and not just lack of consent. I am not really knowledgeable of this area of the law so I may be mistaken on this but I do know that blanket / generalized statements are usually in existence to justify some position that can't be defended using more reasoned arguments.

 

[GILSAN]

In the US, for example, rape has different laws by states. In New York, no means no. In other states I heard you need to prove force and not just lack of consent.

Why are you guys bringing in the US into this argument? Sweden has ONE law for the whole country, NOT many different laws like you say the US has.

Must be a huge coincidence then, that rapes increased fourfold during the period of Sweden's open-door immigration policy from mostly Muslim countries.

So according to you guys, it must be the Christians that are doing most of the raping there.

 

[DU]

I heard that there has been a huge drop in imprisonment rates for drug possession in Portugal since 2001.

Must be a result of the natural warming of the earth over that same period.

 

[JB Lions]

Why are you guys bringing in the US into this argument? Sweden has ONE law for the whole country, NOT many different laws like you say the US has.

Must be a huge coincidence then, that rapes increased fourfold during the period of Sweden's open-door immigration policy from mostly Muslim countries.

So according to you guys, it must be the Christians that are doing most of the raping there.

Literally just went over that in my prior post as to the likely reason why. I noticed you're not addressing that part at all.

 

[GILSAN]

I heard that there has been a huge drop in imprisonment rates for drug possession in Portugal since 2001.

Must be a result of the natural warming of the earth over that same period.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/27/us-sweden-riots-idUSBRE94Q0E620130527

The huge increase in riots, where many youths torched cars and threw stones at Swedish police and rescue services, probably has an explanation.

Must be a result of the natural warming of the earth over that same period. You know what it's like... when the weather starts warming up, it's time to go on a rampage.

 

[verbster]

Why are you guys bringing in the US into this argument? Sweden has ONE law for the whole country, NOT many different laws like you say the US has.

Must be a huge coincidence then, that rapes increased fourfold during the period of Sweden's open-door immigration policy from mostly Muslim countries.

So according to you guys, it must be the Christians that are doing most of the raping there.

There appears to be some evidence of a higher ratio of offenses being attributed to immigrants and persons born in Sweden not of two Swedish parents. However, because of Sweden's method of (not) recording certain information, it's hard to know the religious affiliation. I did see this 1997-2001 study that said, "Slightly under 60 percent of the almost 1,520,000 offences ... registered during the period covered by the study can be attributed to persons who were born in Sweden to two Swedish-born parents," while the other 40% were committed "by people born abroad" and "Swedish-born people with a foreign background". It did not state religious affiliations.

 

[GILSAN]

There appears to be some evidence of a higher ratio of offenses being attributed to immigrants and persons born in Sweden not of two Swedish parents. However, because of Sweden's method of (not) recording certain information, it's hard to know the religious affiliation. I did see this 1997-2001 study that said, "Slightly under 60 percent of the almost 1,520,000 offences ... registered during the period covered by the study can be attributed to persons who were born in Sweden to two Swedish-born parents," while the other 40% were committed "by people born abroad" and "Swedish-born people with a foreign background". It did not state religious affiliations.

Sweden does not show certain data like religious affiliation or racial groups because of their Liberal political correctness in not wanting to show the inconvenient truth, except when it suits their political agenda.

But i'ts really easy to add 2+2 together and get the correct result, which is: 4

In the past 20 years the main countries that immigrants (a large % of which are illegal) arrived from, are:

Iraq
Iran
Bosnia-Herzegovina
Poland
(Former) Yogoslavia
Somalia
Turkey
Syria
Lebanon
Afghanistan
Eritrea
China

As you can see from the list, the majority of immigrants come from predominantly Muslim countries (except for the countries in blue).

I rest my case

 

[JB Lions]

I rest my case

Not until you address this, you keep skipping it over:

"Sweden reformed its sex crime legislation and made the legal definition of rape much wider in 2005, which largely explains the significant increase in the number of reported rapes in the ten-year period of 2004-2013."

"So, for instance, when a woman comes to the police and she says my husband or my fiance raped me almost every day during the last year, the police have to record each of these events, which might be more than 300 events. In many other countries it would just be one record - one victim, one type of crime, one record."

 

[GILSAN]

"So, for instance, when a woman comes to the police and she says my husband or my fiance raped me almost every day during the last year, the police have to record each of these events, which might be more than 300 events. In many other countries it would just be one record - one victim, one type of crime, one record."

Raped 300 times? In that case, you have a really stupid woman who keeps going back to her husband/fiancé to get raped and humiliated every day, except for one day a week to take a rest or perhaps get some hospital treatment.

The other possibility is that you have the world's most incompetent, pathetic and insensitive Police force that do absolutely nothing to help this woman, getting raped everyday. . The Swedish Police Force may have orders to be Politically correct about certain shocking or embarrassing data about certain sections of the population, but to allow a woman to be raped every day and do nothing, except take notes, will only happen in Hollywood or in your imagination

Don't you see how ridiculous your argument is? I'm willing to bet that you don't

Why don't you just accept facts instead of defending the indefensible? Is it because it would be politically incorrect to do it, or is it because you get pleasure in contradicting me all the time?

Look at what's happened in yesterday's European elections. The people here are tired of all the Liberal BS open-door immigration policy that is slowly destroying our values. We are full of immigrants with strange cultures, who don't want to integrate, many of which come over with the main objective of milking our system, so as to get everything for free. Free unemployment benefits, free housing, free schooling, free medical and dental benefits etc.

UKIP in the UK, National Front in France, other right wing parties throughout Europe gained a lot of votes on yesterdays European Elections.... and why did this happen? Yes you guessed it.... this is thanks to all the excessive immigration from people that don't even want to integrate into European society, especially Muslims. They want to dominate and take over Europe and then create Sharia Law countries. They openly admit it. It's no secret.

Viva UKIP... Viva National Front... the people have spoken Don't bother to reply to me JBL, as I won't answer you back. Today was an exception

 

[JB Lions]

My argument isn't ridiculous, it's a fact that - "Sweden reformed its sex crime legislation and made the legal definition of rape much wider in 2005"

That's a fact. The truth is, you hate Muslims, so you want nothing more to tie Muslims going to a country meaning more rape. And the only country you came up with, was the one that changed the legal definition of rape. Not any other countries that have Muslims immigrating there. For what you want to be true, we should be seeing rape go up in other countries as well. So where is it? Link to it. You just mentioned France, so did rape go up there? Since it "increased fourfold" in Sweden, because according to you, it's the Muslims, I'm sure you can show me some stats right of that happening elsewhere.

 

[DU]

I would... but I'd rather beat my head against a brick wall...

 

[GILSAN]

I would... but I'd rather beat my head against a brick wall...

Hey DU, try not to beat your head too hard.... we don't want the brick wall to break :D

 

[Kate]

Gilsan, you need help seriously. You don't know what you are talking about.
What is the motivation for your far right leanings ? Since when Madeira is full of immigrants ?

 

[GILSAN]

Gilsan, you need help seriously. You don't know what you are talking about.

I need help for what? Is it because I'm not a leftie, like the majority in this thread and I don't agree with lefties?

You come into this thread without an opinion on the matter being discussed, yet you say I'm wrong? Wrong in putting out true and obvious facts?

 

[GILSAN]

Meriam, 27, was sentenced to death by hanging earlier this month after being found guilty of converting from Islam to Christianity and marrying a Christian man, U.S. citizen Daniel Wani, who lives in Manchester, New Hampshire.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...stian-gives-birth-baby-girl-squalid-jail.html

But , not all is lost: An Islamic Sharia judge said she could be spared the death penalty if she publicly renounced her faith and becomes a Muslim once more.

Such a tolerant Religion!!!! Maybe Michelle Obama should invite the press and show up with a placard saying: hashtag "Bring back Meriam"

 

[verbster]

Meriam, 27, was sentenced to death by hanging earlier this month after being found guilty of converting from Islam to Christianity and marrying a Christian man, U.S. citizen Daniel Wani, who lives in Manchester, New Hampshire.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...stian-gives-birth-baby-girl-squalid-jail.html

But , not all is lost: An Islamic Sharia judge said she could be spared the death penalty if she publicly renounced her faith and becomes a Muslim once more.

Such a tolerant Religion!!!! Maybe Michelle Obama should invite the press and show up with a placard saying: hashtag "Bring back Meriam"

No matter where or when you are, there are atrocities committed in the name of religion. They all have their ugly sides. Should all Christians be judged by the Rwandan Genocide? The Ugandan death penalty for homosexuality? The current Central African atrocities? Stuff so gruesome on both sides, it's beyond belief.

Why would you bring Michelle Obama into it?

 

[GILSAN]

No matter where or when you are, there are atrocities committed in the name of religion. They all have their ugly sides. Should all Christians be judged by the Rwandan Genocide? The Ugandan death penalty for homosexuality? The current Central African atrocities? Stuff so gruesome on both sides, it's beyond belief.

Why would you bring Michelle Obama into it?

For starters the Rwandan Genocide has nothing to do with the Christian religion. It was an tribal conflict, The death penalty in Uganda has nothing to do with the Christian religion: it's a cultural thing that's pretty widespread throughout Africa. It just doesn't get reported the way the Ugandan one has been.

Only the Central African one is indeed a Religious conflict, because once again it involves Muslims, just like it's close neighbor, Nigeria, where the Muslim Boko Haram are murdering and kidnapping Christians on a daily basis, in the name of their Prophet.

Funny you didn't mention the almost 300 girls, that were kidnapped and forced to convert to Islam, otherwise they would be sold as slaves.

The vast majority of conflicts in the world involve the religion you love to defend.

As usual you are always defending the Religion of Peace, but never show the atrocities from the other side which are hugely superior in numbers.

 

[Kate]

The death penalty in Uganda has nothing to do with the Christian religion: it's a cultural thing that's pretty widespread throughout Africa.

That is untrue. It has a lot to do with religion. The influential Church of Uganda supports theanti-homosexuality bills.
http://churchofuganda.org/wp-conten...tion-on-the-Anti-Homosexuality-Bill-2009..pdf

Not to mention that US evangelist groups are also very active in the area, fostering anti-gay sentiment, something they cannot do in their home country.

As usual you apply double standards to the news.
When something goes bad in a Muslim country, only religion (Islam) is to blame. Not cultural factors, ancestral customs or simply the tactics of the political régime of the day.
On the other hand, when something goes bad in a country that is at least half Christian like Uganda for instance, then suddenly it's not about religion anymore. Never.

 

[GILSAN]

That is untrue. It has a lot to do with religion. The influential Church of Uganda supports theanti-homosexuality bills.
http://churchofuganda.org/wp-conten...tion-on-the-Anti-Homosexuality-Bill-2009..pdf

Not to mention that US evangelist groups are also very active in the area, fostering anti-gay sentiment, something they cannot do in their home country.

Wrong. It's more cultural than religious. Most African countries don't really tolerate gays. They may not have explicit laws like Uganda has, but they do the same as Uganda. They don't really tolerate gays. Zimbabwe is an example that comes to mind, where their President Mugabe openly says that gays should never exist. But there are many others. It's cultural.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...al-rant-David-Camerons-global-gay-rights.html

What about Islam... how do they treat gays? You forgot to mention that didn't you? They have ZERO tolerance towards them in practically all countries where the Religion of Peace dominates.

But it's not only gays they can't tolerate; they can't tolerate Christians or Jews which they refer to as dogs and pigs... and they make sure to teach it to their kids in school as well. If a Muslim converts to Islam... well you know what happens, don't you? Does the same happen when a Christian converts to Islam? I'll bet you won't answer that question

And I'm only mentioning a fraction of the things they don't tolerate. Yea... very tolerant religion indeed

As usual you apply double standards to the news.
When something goes bad in a Muslim country, only religion (Islam) is to blame. Not cultural factors, ancestral customs or simply the tactics of the political régime of the day.
On the other hand, when something goes bad in a country that is at least half Christian like Uganda for instance, then suddenly it's not about religion anymore. Never.

When 95% of the major conflicts going on around the world involves the Religion of Peace, that means that they have most of the blame. Simple as that.

 

[Kate]

Most African countries don't really tolerate gays. They may not have explicit laws like Uganda has, but they do the same as Uganda. They don't really tolerate gays. Zimbabwe is an example that comes to mind, where their President Mugabe openly says that gays should never exist. But there are many others.

Madeira too.