Thanks to Undeveloped, I refunded draco.

[AgentE13]

He posted a thread about me, telling I scammed him. This is NOT true. This is what really happened:

I bought 2 domains from Undeveloped.com (82742.com and 28924.com) on September 20th.
I held them for a few time and then William Efron offered me 700$ for the domains so I sold it to him on October 17th.

I transferred the domains to William's GoDaddy account, William confirmed to me that he got the domains and the deal was successful.

On November 7th William got a message from GoDaddy that his domains are repossessed by GoDaddy and if he wants them back, he can purchase them from GoDaddy for 761$.

You can see the email William got from GoDaddy here (William sent me the copy):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dmnrnkj2yx2u86i/GoDaddy's response to William's Email.png?dl=0

GoDaddy took the domains from his account and added them to his cart so if he wants he can purchase the domains for 761$.
William is saying that I bought the domains with a stolen credit card and this is why the domains were repossessed, but it's not true.

As I said I have paid for the domains via PayPal as you can see here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bw3m3l3n41ae1mu/Completed Payments I made for Undeveloped.png?dl=0

Also, these are the Invoices from Undeveloped.com:
Invoice for 82742.com:
https://undeveloped.com/invoices/asxw24br/buyer.pdf
Invoice for 28924.com:
https://undeveloped.com/invoices/kw0m4lp0/buyer.pdf

I did not cancel any payment, I just bought 2 domains from Undeveloped.com which is a well-known domains website, and sold them to William because he offered me 700$ for them.
William contacted ME. HE wanted to buy the domains from ME. I did not force him to pay for the domains.
William just offered me 700$ for them so I accepted it.

Now GoDaddy is telling William that something is wrong with his account, and instead of trying to solve it with GoDaddy, he looks for the easy (and the wrong) way to get his domains back which is getting a refund for 700$ from the seller (which has nothing to do with the fact that GoDaddy took his domains) and then purchase the domains from GoDaddy for 761$.

If I was responsible in any way, GoDaddy would have contacted ME, and added the domains to MY cart. but that is not the situation. They sent William an email and gave HIM the option to purchase the domains from them because HE is the owner and held them for more than 3 weeks in his account before GoDaddy contacted him.

*I* didn't take the domains from William's account. *I* didn't cancel any payment. I am 100% legit, you are more than welcome to check my payment history and you will see that I NEVER did a chargeback or my payment wasn't accepted.

I really don't understand why he opened this case instead of keep contacting GoDaddy and explain the situation to them until they give him his domains back. After all, if they are giving him the option to purchase them, they can also give them back to him.
I can't control GoDaddy's actions and as much as I want to help, I will not take the hit for GoDaddy's actions.

 

[DAN.COM]

Hi,

Seems like my question was overlooked. So let me ask again. My question is only to learn how to avoid this situation in future which will be useful info for any other friends on NP as well. I will really appreciate if you find time and chance to respond it.

Now can you please elaborate how the deal happened between you and Undeveloped seller?? Can you please share your communication history with Undeveloped seller here for anyone to understand the process to avoid this type of situation in future???

Thanks

Hi,

Here's the full scope of the situation for context:

1: The original Godaddy auctions user had bought the two domains using a credit card

2: The original Godaddy user receives the domains and sells them via Undeveloped to another person (Omer)

3: Omer receives the domain from us in his Godaddy account (transaction closed at Undeveloped)

4: Draco then acquired the domain directly from Omer

5: Godaddy shortly after puts a block on the domains and tries to recover a chargeback initiated by the first auction user from the new owner of the domain (Draco)

If the original auction buyer had bought the domain at Undeveloped and performed a chargeback with us, we would have never even notified the seller of it and handled it ourselves. All Undeveloped users are protected from chargebacks and what not performed at Undeveloped but not on other platforms.

So for context, all payments that are processed by Undeveloped are insured. Payments outside of Undeveloped aren't.

Kind regards,

Reza

 

[DAN.COM]

We can stand by Omer and verify that Omer didn't engage in any scamming activities. I understand people have lost money and might have gotten emotional about it but considering all facts Omer is definitely not the person to blame and his reputation should be safeguarded also by this forum in case false information is being spread about him.

 

[equity78]

So these names first sold at auction on @GoDaddy for $761 https://namebio.com/blog/daily-market-report-for-september-11th-2018/

Then that buyer sells them through @Undeveloped for $550 because he likes losing $211 and the buyer there Mr.Doron sold them for $700 a quick $150 flip to Draco. GoDaddy now says the first guy who lost $211 supposedly won those auctions with bogus credit card. They took the domains back from the guy that didn't even buy them at GoDaddy.

 

[NameOmnia]

The same happened to me a couple of years ago.

I bought a couple of names here on the forum and shortly after GD took them from my account asking me to pay the amount that the previous owner supposedly owed them

Luckily for me the guy just had an issue with his credit card and was not a scammer so everything was solved but only after many phone calls to GD by both of us with support giving us contradictory information and attempting to blame us for what happened etc.

It was an awful experience and I am still flabbergasted by how GD is even legally allowed to behave this way.

At that time to me it felt almost like GD had stolen the domain from me and I am still 100% convinced that as a business they should take into consideration the risks of conducting such business and deal with them themselves.

They never lose while, instead, we all do.

 

[Nahdism]

The only person who should be punished and limited from other buying/selling activities is the one who made a chargeback after the auctions. I guess it has nothing to do with Omar and Draco. Please go after the first person who created this rukus.

 

[3sixty]

This is absolute BS from GoDaddy. There, I said it.

So as a rule of thumb, if a domain has ever historically been with GD, never do a deal that takes it back to that registrar. Your at risk of repossession of your asset through no fault of your own and with no rights to it based off of their t&c. And then they will offer to sell it back to you.

Basically, according to the events laid out, there are two thefts in question here. Wow.

 

[AgentE13]

Undeveloped sent me a refund so I refunded draco.
Undeveloped is great. They didn`t have to take responsibility for GoDaddy's actions, but they did.
Thanks to their good will this situation is now closed.

 

[AgentE13]

I don't invest in "Numeric domains". However, once I inquired on the price for a 5 digit domain and was quoted 100k lol. Now this may or may not be a reach(It was a zipcode).

Nevertheless, I can't fathom that you bought NNNNN.com's and sold them so easy afterwards for $700, without any counter offers .....


Something just doesn't add up???????

Arn't NNNNN's worth way more?

Especially if you bought them for resell?????

That's my way of work. I do quick flips.
Used to buy 4L for 100-110$ and sell for 130$-150$ and same with 5N.

150$ for a sale is a really nice profit imo.
I did some deals with known forum members here. Ask them how it was doing business with me.

And by they way if the 5N has '4' in it it makes it be worth much lower. 700$ was the best offer I have got for them.

 

[DotKing]

Godaddy reposessesed one of my domains after 4 weeks because of THEIR problem with the last owner. Not stolen domain! Without any explanation of course - we successfully removed your domain! Wow. Lost 2 days getting it back. I was super persistant here on forum.

That was 1 year ago and I never touched GD again. Had also just problems with them in the past.
So sad that giant like GD doing that kind of unethical, unprofessional and almost scammy business.

 

[DotKing]

Godaddy needs to secure better their payments, lock domains until funds are cleared or whatever else to protect themselves. Chargebacks happens. It's not new owner's fault. It's only their problem IMHO.
Comparing that situation with real life theft where police needs to be involved is just not comparable. Domain is under their roof and they can't control that? I really can't understand that.

 

[golan]

I don't see fault with Godaddy, they sold two domains, they had no idea that the buyer would do a chargeback

Sorry, can't agree with that. GD as a strong marketplace should have some kind of insurance against such fraud. And anyway in no mean should impose the loss on a bona fide buyer.

 

[IMEZI]

looks like previous owner who sold through undeveloped is the one who should be held responsible

 

[TERADOMAIN]

Hi,

Real question here is Who was Undeveloped seller??

Undeveloped is just a platform like Sedo and other platform where they are not responsible to verify if property is stolen or not. Its not their job to do that. They have verification system and anyone who hold the name in their account can verify those steps regardless of they are stolen or not.

Now can you please elaborate how the deal happened between you and Undeveloped seller?? Can you please share your deal communication history with Undeveloped seller here for anyone to understand the process to avoid this type of situation in future.

Thanks

 

[Sinh]

@Joe Styler Any comment about this issue?

 

[TERADOMAIN]

Hi,

Seems like my question was overlooked. So let me ask again. My question is only to learn how to avoid this situation in future which will be useful info for any other friends on NP as well. I will really appreciate if you find time and chance to respond it.

Now can you please elaborate how the deal happened between you and Undeveloped seller?? Can you please share your communication history with Undeveloped seller here for anyone to understand the process to avoid this type of situation in future???

Thanks

 

[TERADOMAIN]

Sorry, didn't see your comment. Sure I will share what happened. I contacted Undeveloped and they sent me their conversation with the buyer.
I don't know if I can post it publicly so I am sending


Sorry pal, didn't see your comment there.
Sure I have no problem sharing what happened. Undeveloped sent me the conversation with the person who sold me the domains.
I don't know if I can poat it here on public so I am sending it to you as private message.

Thanks. I really appreciate it. This is education for me as well as others.

Thanks for sending screenshot in PM. I really appreciate it.

• How did you found that seller??
• How did you found those names for sale??
• How did you negotiated with seller??

I will really appreciate your response.

Thanks

 

[NameOmnia]

What GD does equals this.

A shop gets robbed by a thief ( or a thief uses a stolen card to purchase items ) and the shop owner goes house by house to forcefully "reposses" ALL the items that the thief stole and if the customers want to have their ( already paid for ) items they have to buy them again.

Now, someone has to explain to me how something like this can even be remotely legal.

 

[Internet.Domains]

Every consumer pays for chargebacks already. The merchant pays a percentage of the sale to the issuing bank. This percentage varies on the risk of the merchant. Generally online transactions are risky and therefore the merchant pays more. These extra costs are passed from the merchant to the end consumer in the cost of goods or services.

Understanding that, it is fair to conclude that, amongst other things, Godaddy was double dipping.

It is estimated that chargeback fraud takes billions from consumers already. Meanwhile Godaddy takes another piece off the top. Yes, that is messed up.

 

[DotKing]

Oh cmon... Like GD is the only one having issues with chargebacks, and we should all pay for their problems, scammers, thieves? It's their responsibility to protect themselves. Small businesses can do that, just google about it. It's a nonsense.
GD just don't care, don't explain, and tell you contradictory bs for days. Support is trained to sell and get rid of you if you need real support/help.
I know I maybe sound way too mad, it's all based on my personal experience and opinion. When I recall all the details I've been thru when that happened, it's just too much, I have zero trust in that company. Nightmare. Not sure how they can do that for years without consequences.

After all GD don't lose anything either way, it was their auction in the first place, they don't pay for auctioning these domains - they just collect money from buyers and sellers. And then they take domains back if they want to and whenever they want, for whatever reason. Arrgh.

 

[APP VN]

I'm not on any side of this case.
But, there is a common psychology of anyone, no one wants to lose money unjustly.

Hope both of you will settle this case and bring your money back.

 

[equity78]

Hi,

Seems like my question was overlooked. So let me ask again. My question is only to learn how to avoid this situation in future which will be useful info for any other friends on NP as well. I will really appreciate if you find time and chance to respond it.

Now can you please elaborate how the deal happened between you and Undeveloped seller?? Can you please share your communication history with Undeveloped seller here for anyone to understand the process to avoid this type of situation in future???

Thanks

You bring up a good question and it's something that shows how inefficient the domain industry is, and how it's nowhere comparable to the regulated industries of real estate and stock markets.

Most people when they buy from an exchange don't realize that aftermarket site like @Undeveloped @GoDaddy @Sedo or @NameJet are protecting them from buying stolen names, and just give a boilerplate answer with aw shucks we are sorry and you are screwed.

 

[Mister Funsky]

It seems as if the domains are being treated like real property.

If someone 'a' steals a guitar from 'owner' and sells it to a friend 'b' and this person then sells it to another person 'c'. Then 'c' needs some fast cash, so he sells it to random unknown person 'd' and shortly thereafter, 'd' is stopped in a traffic situation and the police find the guitar that was reported stolen by 'owner'. The police will take the guitar and will eventually clear 'd' of any wrongdoing and return the guitar to 'owner'. It is up to 'd' to find 'c' and try to get his/her money back...if they can not find 'c', then they have lost both their money and the guitar.

(disclaimer-I am not an attorney, just played one on tv once)

 

[equity78]

We can stand by Omer and verify that Omer didn't engage in any scamming activities. I understand people have lost money and might have gotten emotional about it but considering all facts Omer is definitely not the person to blame and his reputation should be safeguarded also by this forum in case false information is being spread about him.

Tell that to @draco who is out $700, I am not accusing Mr.Doron of anything. But the whole situation is completely screwed and also a blueprint for how to scam.

 

[DomainRecap]

It is indeed a blueprint to scammers out there, I don't see any fault with Mr.Doran, he had no idea these names would be charged back IMO, I don't see fault with Godaddy, they sold two domains, they had no idea that the buyer would do a chargeback, and they can wait 60 days in most cases to do chargeback

The problem is, that people can't just "do a chargeback" on anything they want, and the vendor could easily challenge and prove that the buyer received what he or she bought. A chargeback is a not a "get free stuff" card, it's a method of challenging fraudulent and undelivered products and services.

This was obviously purchased using a stolen credit card, whose rightful owner then initiated a proper chargeback, and GD needs to take some blame in allowing a fraudulent transaction, rather than just playing "hammer the victim" and stealing domains back.