NameSilo

So you THOUGHT Flippa was shady?

Located in Warnings and Alerts, started by S-B, Sep 16, 2015

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  1. Compassion

    Compassion Celebrate Life PRO

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    The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
  2. iowadawg

    iowadawg Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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  3. sofiapartner

    sofiapartner Top Contributor VIP

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    And, Shane. The story with the sale of ITmagazine.com ( https://flippa.com/3351556-generic-...-domain-within-a-3-8-trillion-dollar-industry) , your interview with DomainSherpa ( http://www.domainsherpa.com/shane-bellone-itmagazine-interview/) and the following fiasco with the repeated sale by the mysterious Sanderhoogman (now suspended - https://flippa.com/5163653-great-it-branche-website-for-sale) and the furious bidding between you and Ali is rather interesting, don't you think?

    @FlippaDomains, why you suspended Sanderhoogman?
    Why you ended the auction?
     
  4. S-B

    S-B Account Closed

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    Sanderhoogman was suspended because he also BINed HackerMagazine.com and didn't ever pay.

    Next accusation? If you throw enough out there you might actually hit something.
     
  5. sofiapartner

    sofiapartner Top Contributor VIP

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    I am asking @FlippaDomains why he was suspended - not you.

    I am asking you if it's normal for one auction to go from $3750 to $10 000 BIN won by a new bidder. Do you find this normal given your experience?
     
  6. Chetan

    Chetan Top Contributor VIP

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    Next Accusation -
    Why did you kidnapped Ali?
    where you have hidden him?
    He is not missing now and last person he was seen along is you :xf.grin:
     
  7. forge

    forge cray to the nth VIP

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  8. S-B

    S-B Account Closed

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    It's called negotiating.

    If you pay me enough I will be happy to teach you.



     
  9. maxtorz

    maxtorz Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    The Flippa wonder boy aka Ali is on DNF now.....I think the namepros members are NO longer fond of him so he packed shop.....
     
  10. iowadawg

    iowadawg Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Perception is seller on flippa.
    Perception [​IMG]
    100.0% positive feedback
    128 transactions totalling $675,917
     
  11. maxtorz

    maxtorz Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I think I would like an order of Sanderhoogman and an apple pie with that!!!
    I am going to be deleting my Flippa account.....
    Goodnight y'all :)
     
  12. Fancy.domains

    Fancy.domains Selling gTLDs like delicious hotcakes VIP Gold Account

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    I get so many questions in my mind...

    Is this thread just for entertaining purposes?

    Are we grown-ups or just a bunch of Illuminate-conspiracy-teenagers?

    What's up with domainers with beards? ;)
     
  13. S-B

    S-B Account Closed

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    If there's anything you want to know that I have information about I'll be happy to share.

    It does seem the thread is being derailed though.
     
  14. DomainGist

    DomainGist BigDomains.co.uk VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I'm just waiting to see what card flippa play here, what can flippa explain about Shane not selling on flippa that Shane hasn't explained himself?

    cliff.gif

    ^^^ That's a cliffhanger ;)
     
  15. S-B

    S-B Account Closed

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    I'm interested in seeing what Kevin can tell me about me too.
     
  16. imadoer

    imadoer Top Member PRO VIP

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    My avatar has a beard maybe I will become a pro now :D
     
  17. carob

    carob Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I haven't been a Flippa user, but I want to say thank you to everyone who has provided hard info in this thread, whatever your reasons. I'm not going to become a Flippa user.

    But I do see a lot of these Flippa sales in the Namebio.com database, and Flippa ads on namebio, which used to be largely a paid subscription service but is now free to use. Can anyone tell us more about the relationship between the two?
     
  18. Jen-Sin

    Jen-Sin Established Member

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    @Shane Bellone, thanks for answering my question regarding shill bidding but some of us would like to know the following:

     
  19. Jen-Sin

    Jen-Sin Established Member

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    You first said in your original post:



    You added:



    Then you said:



    As an employee of Flippa then, didn't that mean that Flippa themselves took part?

    In the end you justified:



    I read the Terms of Service and I found this:
    • Accusations of fraud, theft, or any untoward behavior in public comments are not acceptable. If you post these kinds of comments to a listing, you may receive sanctions, up to and including a permanent ban from Flippa.
    Maybe if you had read their Terms of Service, you would not had started this thread.
     
  20. S-B

    S-B Account Closed

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    Shill bidding BENEFITS the SELLER.

    I know people who only place bids that end in an 8. Do you consider that shilling?

    You say accuse I say expose.

    It's a tough (and fun) job but someone's got to do.

    ;)
     
  21. Jen-Sin

    Jen-Sin Established Member

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    In the end, it's the definition of shill bidding that suits you. Everyone interprets slightly differently, that's why I asked what exactly is shill bidding. Most people including you agree that if Flippa is involved in bidding of listings, it might open up lots of questions. Just because it did not benefit you doesn't mean it is still acceptable. You claim shill bidding is rampant but did not mean Flippa themselves took part, but as an employee of Flippa then, doesn't that mean your company took part?

    What did you expose? I did not say accuse, I merely suggest that could be reason the market integrity team apply.

    You ask others to read the Terms of Service to justify your actions, but when the ToS is pointed out to you, it no longer applies as you see yourself doing a greater good for the industry/community?

    For the 4th time, appreciate if you could clarify:

     
  22. S-B

    S-B Account Closed

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    Shill bidding has a definition just as much ignorant has a definition.

    I shed some light in a public forum about an amusingly shady listing. Sure, after my post people left 70+ comments but how is that my fault. ;)

    I've never heard of someone taking the success fee and a 15% brokerage fee. That's a bit ridiculous in my opinion.

    The platform is dead because there are more sellers than buyers. When we first started listing Flippa wasn't primarily a domain auction house. Their bread and butter was the website side of the business. When you have more sellers than bidders you are competing for attention. Unfortunately, it's a pay to play game. 6+ months ago DropCatcher.com would have done $10k+ without question. However, it did $5,000 post-auction. The scary part is I dropped about $1.5k in subsidizes upgrades on that sucker.

    Happy now?
     
  23. Jen-Sin

    Jen-Sin Established Member

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    Which domain marketplace has more buyers than sellers?
     
  24. S-B

    S-B Account Closed

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    I don't analyze marketplaces.
     
  25. FlippaDomains

    FlippaDomains Top Member Flippa Staff

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    There is so much rampant, unchecked bullshit here that I have had to put aside my last three posts, just to edit and roll out a completely new response. I've woken up in the middle of the night to deploy this one. Then I'm going to be addressing what this post was really about, Shane and his time as a Flippa seller. Then I'm going to be addressing the future of Flippa Domains. Then I'm going to bed.

    First thing I need to clear up, just plain and simple:

    @sofiapartner ~ (and cc @ all haters)

    You don't work for Flippa. I do.

    You can't see what I can or know what I know. I love how you think and wish to prove otherwise.

    The truth is that it won't matter what I say, do or write: you will probably never believe me.

    No matter what I come here to try and explain, justify, backup, address...It won't matter. Flippa and those who have made it a successful platform, whether employees or sellers or brokers or whomever...will always be in the wrong in your eyes.

    Don't agree with this statement? Good, then we have a chance to work together to address some fixes. But it's going to involve shoving aside everything that's ever happened and looking at ways to discuss and fix what's to come.

    Once again, and let me actually be bold and close this down now -- for the last time:

    Ali was not created by us; he made his own way. He lived in San Francisco and elsewhere before moving to Hawaii to get past some tough times. His business is his alone, and I won't delve further into his personal life other than to say...he's made his own way.

    When he successfully sold a portfolio of "app" domains in July of 2014, I hadn't ever spoken to him before but decided to interview him for our blog.

    His sales did start off slow and small, but I can verify every single subsequent sale of his -- those reported on our blog reports, those reported at Namebio, those on DNJournal.

    They are real, and the investors that work with him now at his new venture, Perception, know that his current sales are real as well. Ali was not and is not some "marketing gimmick" created to fool the rest of you into choosing Flippa to sell your domains.

    Actually, it was Ali who arranged the interview himself: we didn't know about it until a week before.

    (Sidenote: I think insinuating that Michael Cyger could be bribed like this would offend him.)

    Ali did an incredible job. We not only attracted a lot of new buyers and sellers, but some tremendous inventory that Ali (and then subsequently the other in-house brokers, @Shane Bellone being one them) gained access to auction on behalf of these domain owners.

    And here's your answer, Sofia! KCGroup, meet...

    Same account, different name.

    I'll take it from here - he sold jack...right?

    Sorry, how so? Wait, nevermind - you've already told me.

    Ali paid for upgrades, just like Shane did. He also received help, just like everyone else we work with does. Do you want to work with us, too? I've made it clear how you can reach out to speak with an account rep.

    As for the "special treatment" argument, I'll be addressing that in my next posts.

    I can't speak of his earlier sales, although he may have wanted to delete them because they looked bad. That wasn't something Flippa presided over, as a seller has the right to delete whatever s/he sees fit.

    What I can say is that by far and away your most egregious accusations are to suggest that his sales are not real.

    I take personal offense to that. You don't sit in my seat and manually vet each and every DNJournal-reportable transaction as I do. You don't notice weird bid patterns and flag certain listings as I do. You don't see the communication between buyers and sellers as I do. You don't know if a buyer with "no" history is actually a multi-millionaire end user...as I do.

    Ali's sales were vetted and confirmed, and are a testament to the unbelievable amount of followers he has amassed on our platform (a number which, it should be noted, Flippa can not fluff) and the buyers he found through his outbound sales efforts.

    Had I uncovered something amiss or otherwise been skeptical of how this all came together, I would have spoken out here first. Do I think you would believe me? I doubt it.

    Finishing off this thought: KCGroup's account is now Perception. I already mentioned that.

    The "Ali Zandi" brokerage account was disabled once Ali left Flippa and is now being used by another Flippa (websites) broker.

    This brings me joy to mention an oversight that you have remarkably left out, but I'll just sum it up with two words:

    "Private Sales"

    He has had many of them. Private to you. Private to DNJournal.

    But all in all, Ali sold $550,000 worth of domain names in 10 weeks, from when he was hired in January until he began his own operation off-Flippa. His exact totals those prior six months were much closer and more accurate to what you deem to be his false claims.

    You're welcome to continue. I'm moving on, as stated above, but feel free to speak to the other four people who believe the lies and misinformation you're typing.

    Is it possible that @Shane Bellone and Ali were bidding on this domain because
    a) it had once sold for $10k+ and
    b) they were bidding back and forth to try and reclaim it for, which appears at the time looks to have been less than $1,000?

    I'm actually not sure the backstory but...

    That's what happened. This account was suspicious, and upon suspending and asking for ID / response, we heard nothing. We do that a lot now, in case you haven't noticed.

    Actually, that's pretty normal when the buyer contacts the seller, asks the reserve price, and they negotiate a quick(er) sale.

    It's nothing earth shattering, more of a "So long, nice working with you" sentiment. I'll try to get to it after I post this, and then get to the meat of what I really want to get across - which I hope is more constructive moving forward.

    Namebio is an affiliate of Flippa. Actually, Namebio is among our top affiliates. Sales reported there are accurate until they aren't; in other words, if I find a reversed sale, I report it to those guys who take it down. I stand by our sales and they, for one, trust me.

    cc @Jen-Sin, you asked

    "Is it true that some SuperSellers took advantage of the free/subsidised upgrades and/or editor's choices and charged an additional 15% brokering fee on top of the success fee to list domains for others under their accounts?"'

    This is a bit jumbled, I think.

    Super Sellers were never authorized to charge 15% and broker/sell on behalf of others.

    In-house brokers of Flippa (Ali was our first official hire, then Shane and a couple of others) were brokering for a 15% cut that went to Flippa (in-house sellers were then paid out a percentage of that).

    We DID - sorry let me rephrase - I did - help our in-house brokers with better exposure, upgrades, Editor's Choice picks, etc. That was the initial trial of our curation efforts. This is mainly what Shane is referring to when he talks about "special treatment." Many other sellers got subsidies and freebies, because...we help those who ask! This has never been a secret!

    A company's curation efforts are boosting their best inventory to the top, and that is what we did.

    Actually, this is a pretty good segue into my next post...
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2015

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