So you THOUGHT Flippa was shady?

[S-B]

Sorry in advance, Kevin. Should have had your people leave me alone.

Flippa has been the subject of much controversy over the last 6 months. Speculative talk has ranged from shill bidding to bloated sales reports. Most of the accusations are pure garbage but the company is sketchy as hell.

While you might be thinking that I’m bitter because I haven’t any luck there, you should know that I moved $75,000 of domains in 6 months. At one point, I was the first to go to bat for them all because I try to show some loyalty when someone is taking care of me.

However, I recently had my Super Seller status revoked “due to comments made towards other users.” In fact, this is due to my response to the auction where an individual claimed to have an offer on a 3 day old domain of 10,000 bitcoins — that’s $2,500,000. Apparently, calling out a scammer is grounds for retaliation from the business.

I suppose this is because Flippa values net revenue more than customer satisfaction.

Now that you know my motivation I will move on and share a little bit of insider information.

If you’re paying full price for listing fees and upgrades you have been scammed.

They have gone on the defensive in the past by saying that they “subsidize” upgrades for their top sellers. Subsidize is a cute word for giveaway.

I received somewhere between $3,000 to $5,000 in “subsidies” — as a private seller — over 6 months. At one point, I received $2,000 in credits at one time.

Now I won’t lie, sometimes I had to pay for listings. When I did, I still got hooked up. For every upgrade or listing I purchased I received 2 free.

So when I paid, which was rare, I paid 1/3 of what you’ve been paying. I’m sure you now see why some people make a killing off their platform while others have lost hundreds of dollars per listing.

Oh you thought Editor’s choice was for good domains? Nah. It has been a filter for friends of Flippa.

When I sold on Flippa’s platform, I was given Editor’s Choice for nearly all of my domains. Why? Because I asked.

I know some of you noticed that only 3-5 people showed up when visiting that page. Some might not care but others might understand the value of this.

Domains at Flippa sell for much more when given the Editor’s Choice designation.

Oh so you suspect shilling? I’ve known many users who have shilled their way to a profit. It doesn’t benefit Flippa to eliminate shilling. High sales mean higher success fees.

Simple as that.

Straight up scamming? Yep.

I’ve reported verifiable scams to customer support and I didn’t hear back until after the auction closed. They stated that it was now the buyer’s responsibility to report the sale if something fishy occurred.

Hmmmm.

Would the buyer receive a refund? No. Would the seller be suspended? Yes. Would Flippa still profit? Damn right.

At the end of the day, you can choose to use their platform of boycott them.

I will choose the latter.

P.S.

Have you been curious about what Flippa has been doing?

They are working on adding small business to their platform.

Yeah. Dump money into selling physical business without verifying any of their claims.

That should work. Everyone is honest. Right?

 

[FlippaDomains]

Shane, I'm disappointed you didn't bring this to my attention first. Our Marketplace Integrity department doesn't know you. They flagged your comment likely because you speak out and ruffle feathers, something I have defended before in the past. You are still in my mind a super seller, so I've asked them to send me the reasons they revoked your status so I can look into it.

Would like to address everything else, as I think you've conflated quite a bit:

"... this is due to my response to the auction where an individual claimed to have an offer on a 3 day old domain of 10,000 bitcoins — that’s $2,500,000. Apparently, calling out a scammer is grounds for retaliation from the business. I suppose this is because Flippa values net revenue more than customer satisfaction.

I'd like to see the comment in question, please.

That listing was ridiculous, to put it mildly, but suggesting that we suspended you because we stood to profit from the listing is the weakest part of your argument: We all know that domain would never have sold. The seller made a choice to purchase an upgrade and was refunded since the listing was cancelled.

"So when I paid, which was rare, I paid 1/3 of what you’ve been paying. I’m sure you now see why some people make a killing off their platform while others have lost hundreds of dollars per listing."

Yes, we took care of you -- as we do to all our loyal, repeat sellers. I've mentioned many times on here that we now work with anyone who inquires, via [email protected], and offer listing subsidies or free upgrades to those who qualify.

What does "qualify" mean?

With an influx of inventory, it's not feasible to "upgrade everything" -- So if a domain seller brings us something that we don't deem to cover the cost of an upgrade, we now tell them not to bother in purchasing one.

If someone wants to bring something of value to auction, we help them do so with subsidies or outright credits. But it's now more targeted to help the seller actually sell something. And again, this is available entirely to those who reach out to us to discuss prior to listing.

Upgrades are a major point of controversy and something that I personally want to change.

I guess I figured that by helping our sellers, were they to reach out to us first, that would help our company in turn. And just to set the record straight, we've augmented a lot of how this is done now (see below with Ed Choice) -- so the number of high-volume sellers that get discounts that you used to receive has dropped to zero. The most we do is a free upgrade here and there, or half-price -- again, pursuant to speaking with us first.

When I sold on Flippa’s platform, I was given Editor’s Choice for nearly all of my domains. Why? Because I asked.

Yep, it was pretty loose back in the good 'ol days.

Now you'll see that Editor's Choice is capped at around 20-25 domains per month, with priority going to short, one-word .COMs. In an effort to promote our best inventory, we've cut back on how we award this.

If you want to blame someone for setting false expectations and how this was done in the past, that's all on me. I'm the sole Editor.

But moving forward, we're being extremely selective. If you deem your inventory -- or something else on the site that you see -- to be EC worthy, please bring it to my attention.

Oh so you suspect shilling? I’ve known many users who have shilled their way to a profit. It doesn’t benefit Flippa to eliminate shilling. High sales mean higher success fees.

Again, this is something we need to be made aware of -- but if our system doesn't pick up cues (faulty IPs, triggers that we have setup, other security measures in place that I won't go into), it's unlikely that we'll "see everything all the time" -- We don't have a team that sits around and watches bids come in [and before you ask, @HeyNow , we don't employ a team that sits around and bids on things, either...)

This part of our reputation is our biggest albatross around our necks, as a platform -- and we've received a pretty shitty rap in the past. But if you saw things from where I'm sitting, it's drastically better thanks to our beefed-up team this past year.

The fact that you, Shane, were reprimanded for commenting is questionable, and like I said I'll look into whether that decision should stand; but when it comes to trust and safety on our platform, I rather have an aggressive and vigilant Marketplace Integrity team that acts first and apologizes later - I make no apologies for that.

Find someone at GoDaddy or Namejet and ask them to stop dodgy users on their platform; it's an impossible task in entirety, but we match or beat them on vigilance, I assure you.

I’ve reported verifiable scams to customer support and I didn’t hear back until after the auction closed. They stated that it was now the buyer’s responsibility to report the sale if something fishy occurred.

Please send me proof via PM.

Wishing you well, Shane. Reach out privately anytime...

 

[sofiapartner]

You didn't create Ali Flippa? Sorry but it doesn't take much to create a brand by giving away editor's choices, upgrades, Super Seller statuses etc; it is number one rule of marketing so do not go on treating us like we are dumb or so.

Thank you, @photonmymind . However, Kevin makes me angry when he continues to think that we are dumb. So I decided to answer him and to all the newbies that PMd me asking where we discussed the AliZandi "miracles"

It all started when Flippa decided to make one genius marketing move. To create and promote Ali Zandi - "ordinary guy making a lot of money over night thanks to domains and Flippa".

To be honest I was already suspicious when he came from nowhere here at namepros and started to teach us with his long, positive posts summing up as - "work hard, list at flippa, become rich". His posts smelled from the beginning. It was just too easy. And we knew and we know - that it isn't.

Then - the interview with DomainSherpa. I don't know how much flippa paid for that, but it was genius. This interview was shared and shared and went viral and many newbies entered the game. The game that they didn't know how to play, but it seems so easy. Just look at Ali. Already in Hawai living the Flippa dream. Since we know that this is not how things work in domaining - we were safe - but not the newbies. So many of them started to list at flippa, buying premium upgrades (they were actually buying them, not like Shane).

So these newbies were waiting to become rich, move to hawaii, propose to their fiancee - you know... the ali zandi stuff . Well - they didn't . They ask me over and over again - where we discussed this. Is this true - that flippa and Ali are lying. Of course it's true. It's all business. Right, Shane?

Here is the promo of DomainSherpa (another businessman) for his interview with Ali.

[QUOTE]Ali Zandi entered the domain name industry as an investor in mid-2014. He started by purchasing 10 domain names and sold every single one within 30 days on Flippa.

He did such a good job, he moved from selling about $2,000 to $12,000 in a period of three months, was upgraded from "New" to "Super Seller" on Flippa, and was offered a newly created senior broker position at Flippa. (His sales are now $402,000 in the first 7 months.)

In this interview, Ali Zandi talks about who buys what types of domain names on Flippa, and walks us through his exact process for listing domain names for sale on Flippa.
http://www.domainsherpa.com/ali-zandi-flippa-interview/
[/QUOTE]

Actually all the statements made in this promo are lies.

Ali Zandi entered the domain name industry as an investor in mid-2014. First sentence - first lie. He entered the industry before that but had no success. Unfortunately Flippa already had deleted the history, the auctions, the domains of KCGroup (yes - this was AliZandi again). And also most of the auctions of AliZandi when he already was AliZandi.

Here is a question for you, Kevin. Why you deleted all this auctions? Why you deleted all the history of KCGroup and AliZandi?

Fortunately I have some data. Ali entered flippa not in the mid-2014 or in July 2014 as he is stating in the interview. You can see his lie at 3:58 at the interview - "In July when I actually started..."

The truth - He started selling at flippa in March 2014. He sold

Meningocele.com - $20
The following 4 domains for $999:
F0B.com
RO4.com
DOW2.com
1CPO.com

seizure.info - $51

And some other shitty domains for shitty price. Not even close to the interesting story with the ten domains - $2K to $12K and so on. The marketing tricks of Flippa.

Nothing unexpected. Nothing like what is about to start in July. And what happened in July? Well - for some reason all of his domains started to receive ultra premium upgrades with the logo, standing always on the top, editor's choces, collecting watchers, etc. and started to sell for some unbelievable prices. Did he paid for his updates? Well - we all know the answer of that, don't we? Did these domains actually were sold? Well - for most of them - I honestly doubt that.

These domain include the famous
cupcakefrosting.com for $601 sold in Sep 12th 2014

Do you know where is this domain now? Well - again at flippa. Another "Super seller" is trying to sell it - > https://flippa.com/3474570-no-title. I bet that he will have hard time to do so. If this is his intention. Or he played his role in making Ali - a domain wonder. We can only guess.

Let me ask again @FlippaDomains - Why all Ali Zandi sales are deleted? Why is his profile is deleted? Actually you deleted two of his profiles - KCGroup and AliZandi with all thiese fake sales there? Come on, man. We have some archives.

----------
Let me remind you what they claim in the interview:

His sales are now $402,000 in the first 7 months.

The Truth - These are his actual sales for his "first" 7 months - Total - 50 sales @ $68,727

Many of these domains are sold with bonus domains.

MobileDrones.com $2875
RealEstateForeclosures.com $7500
DomainDropper.com $505
Throttles.com $1050
FirearmMagazine.com $455
Holeout.com $2000
Minorities.com $5000
OsakaTourism.com $850
ScubaTank.com $2500
Enlargements.org $90
Jihad.info $350
Bean-Bags.com $400
TokyoTourism.com $2000
PisaItaly.com $450
OahuResorts.com $1999
Epiphora.com $350
VicePrincipal.com $399
MonthlyRewards.com $1500
Semtex.com $3500
FlooringOptions.com $999
InpatientDetox.com $800
Hitler.info $2999
ExoticCarAuction.com $1500
FreeInstrumentals.com $4000
BackupMac.com $551
Cloey.com $1999
GunEngraver.com $395
MyPropertyListings.com $1500
Flipped.net $1999
Occults.com $799
Whift.com $501
StereoDeals.com $449
ReggaeSongs.com $1999
NearestRestaurants.com $1500
CupcakeFrosting.com $601
CeremonyMusic.com $2100
RealEstateAuctions.info $65
AppDesignSchool.com $7500
FiOS.info $100
Muse.info $200
BaytownApartments.com $124
Condos-For-Sale.com $175
T3i.net $206
F5O.com $365
seizure.info $51
sexywallpapers.org $90
F0B.com $999
Meningocele.com $20
soundboards.org $118
StockPhotoPlanet.com $250

Total = 50 sales @ $68,727

Here is one interesting thread where this and more is discussed -> https://www.namepros.com/threads/flippa.849498/

And I can't find another one where all of his lies and much more was exposed.

Ali Zandi removed his comments from this thread, because he had nothing smart to say - then he was AliZandi, after that he became "Perception", now he is "The Group". So you can't read his comments which are edited and replaced by him with " My comments have been removed to proceed in a positive manner."

Some of his lies however are quoted by other members - so they stay. Not all unfortunately.

Do you want me to continue, Kevin? I have some really interesting things to say about Ali and Flippa.

 

[Raindrops]

So, wait, profiting from their shady practices would be OK if you hadn't lose all the perks?
But now it's not?

I'm confused...

This.

You didn't mind leaving your fellow domainers in the dark knowing fully well that Flippa was full of BS scam behavior - yet now that you got stung by the same circle of fraudulent activity you knowingly participated in, benefited from, and helped to promote by your engagement and promotion/support of the website, you now want to look like the saintful martyr and "expose" something?

All of that aside, tell us something other than what most of us have known for a long time now.

 

[Compassion]

 

[bluebox]

So, wait, profiting from their shady practices would be OK if you hadn't lose all the perks?
But now it's not?

I'm confused...

 

[DomainGist]

September 16th

Oh you thought Editor’s choice was for good domains? Nah. It has been a filter for friends of Flippa.
When I sold on Flippa’s platform, I was given Editor’s Choice for nearly all of my domains. Why? Because I asked.

Vs.

March 3rd

Editors choice is quite random. You can't just email them and ask to be included. They try to pick some of the best ones...

September 16th

If you’re paying full price for listing fees and upgrades you have been scammed.

Vs.

February 20th

If you have something premium, buy the upgrades. It's really that simple.

+
April 10th

In my honest opinion, I wouldn't call an upgrade a risk. It's an investment in order to see a return.

So when you say.......

Now you sit here and say it was my responsibility to educate you.

(which by the way, I've seen literally nobody say), to the contrary I consider you to be somebody with serious credibility issues, I now wouldn't believe a single word that you say.

Perhaps new domainers should now consider you to the be the last person they should listen to, unless they want misinformation?

Now I won’t lie

Of course not

 

[ImageAuthors]

Shane Bellone may have mixed motives for criticizing Flippa. But motives don't matter. Facts matter. When a guy makes a claim and people fixate on his motives, that's an ad hominem fallacy – a distraction. Insiders are seldom saints. Is Shane blowing the whistle or expressing sour grapes? Who cares? Rather, ask if what he's saying fits the facts. Forget who's saying a thing and evaluate what they say.

Other people with different motives have made similar claims about Flippa. For instance, I brought up many of the same issues 9 months ago:

https://www.namepros.com/threads/wh...a-fake-bid-removed.839852/page-4#post-4742109

At that time, Flippa was just beginning its accelerated program of privilege – heavily promoting soon-to-be-official brokers and super sellers at the expense of regular customers. So you can see much the same criticisms being made by people who stepped back at the outset (like me) and people who took advantage of the hookups until they left on bad terms (like Shane).

I don't know why Shane's "Super Seller" status was revoked, but it really doesn't matter. What matters is that there are (or have been) privileged positions for sellers at Flippa that can be bestowed and taken away.

 

[S-B]

I would like to emphasis the point that I am not concerned with what anyone else in the industry does. I am concerned with my business. Honestly, a dollar spent on an auction that leads no where is a dollar less spent against me in the aftermarket. That's the brutal, unadulterated truth.

I came into this industry with zero experience or knowhow, much like many of you. When I asked for help I was greeted with the same response you see here all of the time - "search the forums." No one tutored me. No one gave me a refund after making a stupid purchase. I did the hard work and learned the lessons.

Now you sit here and say it was my responsibility to educate you. Come on. Man up (sorry ladies) and take responsibility for your actions.

Most of you don't know this but I take time out of my day to help people on this forum. I give advice all of the time via private message. I don't do this because I have to or because it's my duty. I do this because too many amateurs jump into this industry thinking they know everything. If you are smart enough to ask a valid question then you are smart enough accept a truthful and thought-out response. At the end of the day, I am willing to pass the little knowledge I possess on; providing you are looking for help and not a handout.

Even with the motivation to learn and ability to adapt many still aren't capable of mustering the strength battle it out on a daily basis.

This brings me to my next point. Some of you don't have the audacity to succeed in this business. You treat it is like a book club. You sit around, exchange stories, and do everything but read - or in this case sell domains. Yet you still criticize people you don't know for doing what you can't.

You need to change your mentality. Stop blaming other people for handicapping you. It's not your gender, orientation, or race. It's the fact that you fail to understand that you are not always right. Live to learn then learn to succeed. Those are words to live by.

If you've made it through this verbal assault I do commend you.

Just remember - if it's between you and me - it will always be me. I don't lie down or play dead. I play to win.

 

[loredan]

So, wait, profiting from their shady practices would be OK if you hadn't lose all the perks?
But now it's not?

I'm confused...

You're 100% spot on. He was just fine when profiting from Flippa's shady practices, now he's playing the "if you don't give my toy back, I'll tell mommy" game. Gotta love these people ...

As for Flippa, I think 90% of domainers already suspected this

 

[bluebox]

Never post when you are in a "revenge" mood - often it will look like a "sour grapes" rant...
It's always good to step away from a computer, take a breath...

 

[S-B]

This.

You didn't mind leaving your fellow domainers in the dark knowing fully well that Flippa was full of BS scam behavior - yet now that you got stung by the same circle of fraudulent activity you knowingly participated in, benefited from, and helped to promote by your engagement and promotion/support of the website, you now want to look like the saintful martyr and "expose" something?

All of that aside, tell us something other than what most of us have known for a long time now.

I never claimed to be a saint.

Make this about me if you want.

I really couldn't care less.

 

[DomainVP]

 

[sofiapartner]

I have a question for those who are against @Shane Bellone for not letting us know about about Flippa earlier.

If you have a junk domain worth not even $1 and a newbie domainer offers you $1000 to buy it. Would you educate him that he should not buy it as it is a junk?

It is not about "not letting us know about Flippa earlier" . We already knew it. He was arguing and defending flippa telling us that it is just our imagination. Together with his friend Ali and a couple of other "super sellers".

You are paying $350 and you are lost in the crowd of "super sellers" and "editor's choices", who are paying $0 for their exposure. You are "scammed" (as Shame pointed) and robbed. Flippa doesn't tell you that. That is the problem.

And if we go deeper, things will get dirtier. Their (Flippa) creation Ali, his manipulated auctions and fake profits. His interviews with another "super seller" were full of lies. As we proved that in one of his threads. And these interviews went viral and many newbies lost a lot. Flippa is so unethical, that some of you may call this "business". I am calling it - scam.

 

[FlippaDomains]

There is so much rampant, unchecked bullshit here that I have had to put aside my last three posts, just to edit and roll out a completely new response. I've woken up in the middle of the night to deploy this one. Then I'm going to be addressing what this post was really about, Shane and his time as a Flippa seller. Then I'm going to be addressing the future of Flippa Domains. Then I'm going to bed.

First thing I need to clear up, just plain and simple:

@sofiapartner ~ (and cc @ all haters)

You don't work for Flippa. I do.

You can't see what I can or know what I know. I love how you think and wish to prove otherwise.

The truth is that it won't matter what I say, do or write: you will probably never believe me.

No matter what I come here to try and explain, justify, backup, address...It won't matter. Flippa and those who have made it a successful platform, whether employees or sellers or brokers or whomever...will always be in the wrong in your eyes.

Don't agree with this statement? Good, then we have a chance to work together to address some fixes. But it's going to involve shoving aside everything that's ever happened and looking at ways to discuss and fix what's to come.

It all started when Flippa decided to make one genius marketing move. To create and promote Ali Zandi - "ordinary guy making a lot of money over night thanks to domains and Flippa".

Once again, and let me actually be bold and close this down now -- for the last time:

Ali was not created by us; he made his own way. He lived in San Francisco and elsewhere before moving to Hawaii to get past some tough times. His business is his alone, and I won't delve further into his personal life other than to say...he's made his own way.

When he successfully sold a portfolio of "app" domains in July of 2014, I hadn't ever spoken to him before but decided to interview him for our blog.

His sales did start off slow and small, but I can verify every single subsequent sale of his -- those reported on our blog reports, those reported at Namebio, those on DNJournal.

They are real, and the investors that work with him now at his new venture, Perception, know that his current sales are real as well. Ali was not and is not some "marketing gimmick" created to fool the rest of you into choosing Flippa to sell your domains.

...the interview with DomainSherpa. I don't know how much flippa paid for that, but it was genius. This interview was shared and shared and went viral and many newbies entered the game. The game that they didn't know how to play, but it seems so easy. Just look at Ali. Already in Hawai living the Flippa dream. Since we know that this is not how things work in domaining - we were safe - but not the newbies. So many of them started to list at flippa, buying premium upgrades (they were actually buying them, not like Shane).

Actually, it was Ali who arranged the interview himself: we didn't know about it until a week before.

(Sidenote: I think insinuating that Michael Cyger could be bribed like this would offend him.)

Ali did an incredible job. We not only attracted a lot of new buyers and sellers, but some tremendous inventory that Ali (and then subsequently the other in-house brokers, @Shane Bellone being one them) gained access to auction on behalf of these domain owners.

Here is a question for you, Kevin. Why you deleted all this auctions? Why you deleted all the history of KCGroup and AliZandi?

And here's your answer, Sofia! KCGroup, meet...

Perception is seller on flippa.
Perception

100.0% positive feedback
128 transactions totalling $675,917

Same account, different name.

The truth - He started selling at flippa in March 2014. He sold

I'll take it from here - he sold jack...right?

The marketing tricks of Flippa.

Sorry, how so? Wait, nevermind - you've already told me.

...what happened in July? Well - for some reason all of his domains started to receive ultra premium upgrades with the logo, standing always on the top, editor's choces, collecting watchers, etc. and started to sell for some unbelievable prices. Did he paid for his updates? Well - we all know the answer of that, don't we? Did these domains actually were sold? Well - for most of them - I honestly doubt that.

Ali paid for upgrades, just like Shane did. He also received help, just like everyone else we work with does. Do you want to work with us, too? I've made it clear how you can reach out to speak with an account rep.

As for the "special treatment" argument, I'll be addressing that in my next posts.

Let me ask again @FlippaDomains - Why all Ali Zandi sales are deleted? Why is his profile is deleted? Actually you deleted two of his profiles - KCGroup and AliZandi with all thiese fake sales there? Come on, man. We have some archives.

I can't speak of his earlier sales, although he may have wanted to delete them because they looked bad. That wasn't something Flippa presided over, as a seller has the right to delete whatever s/he sees fit.

What I can say is that by far and away your most egregious accusations are to suggest that his sales are not real.

I take personal offense to that. You don't sit in my seat and manually vet each and every DNJournal-reportable transaction as I do. You don't notice weird bid patterns and flag certain listings as I do. You don't see the communication between buyers and sellers as I do. You don't know if a buyer with "no" history is actually a multi-millionaire end user...as I do.

Ali's sales were vetted and confirmed, and are a testament to the unbelievable amount of followers he has amassed on our platform (a number which, it should be noted, Flippa can not fluff) and the buyers he found through his outbound sales efforts.

Had I uncovered something amiss or otherwise been skeptical of how this all came together, I would have spoken out here first. Do I think you would believe me? I doubt it.

Finishing off this thought: KCGroup's account is now Perception. I already mentioned that.

The "Ali Zandi" brokerage account was disabled once Ali left Flippa and is now being used by another Flippa (websites) broker.

Let me remind you what they claim in the interview:

His sales are now $402,000 in the first 7 months.

The Truth - These are his actual sales for his "first" 7 months - Total - 50 sales @ $68,727

Total = 50 sales @ $68,727

This brings me joy to mention an oversight that you have remarkably left out, but I'll just sum it up with two words:

"Private Sales"

He has had many of them. Private to you. Private to DNJournal.

But all in all, Ali sold $550,000 worth of domain names in 10 weeks, from when he was hired in January until he began his own operation off-Flippa. His exact totals those prior six months were much closer and more accurate to what you deem to be his false claims.

Do you want me to continue, Kevin? I have some really interesting things to say about Ali and Flippa.

You're welcome to continue. I'm moving on, as stated above, but feel free to speak to the other four people who believe the lies and misinformation you're typing.

And, Shane. The story with the sale of ITmagazine.com ( https://flippa.com/3351556-generic-...-domain-within-a-3-8-trillion-dollar-industry) , your interview with DomainSherpa ( http://www.domainsherpa.com/shane-bellone-itmagazine-interview/) and the following fiasco with the repeated sale by the mysterious Sanderhoogman (now suspended - https://flippa.com/5163653-great-it-branche-website-for-sale) and the furious bidding between you and Ali is rather interesting, don't you think?

@FlippaDomains, why you suspended Sanderhoogman?
Why you ended the auction?

Is it possible that @Shane Bellone and Ali were bidding on this domain because
a) it had once sold for $10k+ and
b) they were bidding back and forth to try and reclaim it for, which appears at the time looks to have been less than $1,000?

I'm actually not sure the backstory but...

Sanderhoogman was suspended because he also BINed HackerMagazine.com and didn't ever pay.

Next accusation? If you throw enough out there you might actually hit something.

That's what happened. This account was suspicious, and upon suspending and asking for ID / response, we heard nothing. We do that a lot now, in case you haven't noticed.

I am asking @FlippaDomains why he was suspended - not you.

I am asking you if it's normal for one auction to go from $3750 to $10 000 BIN won by a new bidder. Do you find this normal given your experience?

Actually, that's pretty normal when the buyer contacts the seller, asks the reserve price, and they negotiate a quick(er) sale.

I'm interested in seeing what Kevin can tell me about me too.

It's nothing earth shattering, more of a "So long, nice working with you" sentiment. I'll try to get to it after I post this, and then get to the meat of what I really want to get across - which I hope is more constructive moving forward.

I haven't been a Flippa user, but I want to say thank you to everyone who has provided hard info in this thread, whatever your reasons. I'm not going to become a Flippa user.

But I do see a lot of these Flippa sales in the Namebio.com database, and Flippa ads on namebio, which used to be largely a paid subscription service but is now free to use. Can anyone tell us more about the relationship between the two?

Namebio is an affiliate of Flippa. Actually, Namebio is among our top affiliates. Sales reported there are accurate until they aren't; in other words, if I find a reversed sale, I report it to those guys who take it down. I stand by our sales and they, for one, trust me.

I've never heard of someone taking the success fee and a 15% brokerage fee. That's a bit ridiculous in my opinion.

cc @Jen-Sin, you asked

"Is it true that some SuperSellers took advantage of the free/subsidised upgrades and/or editor's choices and charged an additional 15% brokering fee on top of the success fee to list domains for others under their accounts?"'

This is a bit jumbled, I think.

Super Sellers were never authorized to charge 15% and broker/sell on behalf of others.

In-house brokers of Flippa (Ali was our first official hire, then Shane and a couple of others) were brokering for a 15% cut that went to Flippa (in-house sellers were then paid out a percentage of that).

We DID - sorry let me rephrase - I did - help our in-house brokers with better exposure, upgrades, Editor's Choice picks, etc. That was the initial trial of our curation efforts. This is mainly what Shane is referring to when he talks about "special treatment." Many other sellers got subsidies and freebies, because...we help those who ask! This has never been a secret!

A company's curation efforts are boosting their best inventory to the top, and that is what we did.

Actually, this is a pretty good segue into my next post...

 

[Beezy]

RE: Flippa being dead...

Maybe it's the FLIPPING that's dead, at least compared to what you could do in 2014-early 2015.

- There has been a massive flow of new domainers into the industry (many inspired by Domain Sherpa videos which talked about the Flippa experience and gave an exact formula of how to "win" there). As a result, you are seeing prices and competition for domains increasing almost weekly on the aftermarkets.

It used to be dead-simple to go namejet or godaddy and find an underpriced gem if you knew what you were doing. In May, I noted that there were between 40-60 daily sales on namebio over $100. The other day there were 100 listed sales over $300. IN ONE DAY!

I see Shane and Ali posting domain wanted threads on Namepros, and I remember Ali making a thread frustrated by the prices he was getting from domainers. The reality is, it is simply harder to get deals now! They are there. You can find them. But it's not like it was a year ago when you could buy something, list it on Flippa, and pocket a few grand (yes, there was more work to do than that...but I'm just emphasizing the actual SOURCING of the domains will cost you a lot more time and money today).

- The buyers are more educated. Flippa's domain market was a nascent upstart and many of the website investors were coming over and dipping their toes in and getting wrapped up in the hype and excitement. When you posted hype in those listings, IT WORKED! Unlike the website listings on Flippa, you didn't need ACTUAL stats to back it up. If you list a website, you need to post actual stats and revenue numbers (yes, these can and are faked, but at least there is SOMETHING to go by...and the good, repeat sellers have a reputation to uphold and sell good sites).

On a domain listing, it's like the wild wild west (cue will smith song). "Billion Dollar Market". I see that on every domain. Actually, not EVERY DOMAIN - I recently watched the Kevin Macpherson Sherpa interview and checked out his Flippa listings. It was almost shocking to see his raw, unhyped listings. Neither is right or wrong, by the way. I'm not here to make that judgement. I've experimented with both types of listings and it is best to use what works for you. But the hype listings DEFINITELY worked better early this year.

Every Flippa newsletter points to Namepros, btw! People are coming here, learning about namebio, looking at REAL comparable sales (rather than what Ali taught us on Sherpa, which is to take the top 100 sales in an extension and paste them into the listing), etc.

More educated buyers is a GOOD THING (except when it hurts your business model).

Is quick flipping viable in these conditions? I don't think so anymore. Not as your primary business model. It can be done, but sourcing domains is harder and only the best domains are getting top dollar now. If it was just Ali and Shane following this formula...maybe it would still be working...but they taught thousands of people how to do it! And, well...killed it.

Is Flippa dead? Nope, it just grew and adapted to the conditions of the domain market I described above. If Flippa is dead, .io wouldn't be a thing right now. Here are the last 100 flippa sales (took place over the past 5-6 days).

-----

Thoughts?

Bobby

 

[tld_org]

I have to say that I have been very disappointed with the upgrades and the premium listing prices. I paid out $340 for a premium listing and received only a total of 3 bids.

This. I've paid the 'upgraded listing fees' and it is a complete farce because you don't get the visibility you should since your upgraded listing is buried in with all the upgraded listing that other people got handed for free. So instead of being 1 out of 10 you become 1 out of 100 (no idea what the real numbers are, just for illustrative purposes). You can easily stand out being 1 out of 10. Being 1 out of 100 you get lost in the crowd.

And no other site charges remotely close to what Flippa charges for "exposure". So they charge an arm and a leg, and they bury you in the crowd. Thanks Flippa.

 

[Avabelle]

Maybe this should be in another thread, or maybe already answered somewhere, but outside of Flippa and besides here at NP, where are the best places to auction/sell domains?

Most of my sales come from Sedo and people contacting me directly.

 

[S-B]

So, wait, profiting from their shady practices would be OK if you hadn't lose all the perks?
But now it's not?

I'm confused...

Developing relationships is part of business. Leveraging those relationships is just being smart.

And I haven't listed there in months. The platform has died.

 

[cocaseco]

You can say I let down my fellow domainers, however, this is a business. We don't sit around, hold hands, or sing Kumbaya. If you would have turned down a hookup you are either lying to yourself or the worst business man/woman in the world. Hate me. Love me. Whatever.

As harsh as it may sound, this is the truth. I've said similar and had people jump on me over it. Sure, there is a percentage of people on here who i am convinced "domain" for the social aspect. But those that are seriously in the business of selling domains understand the reality of a very competitive business.

I thought domainers were meant to stick up for each other, i hope in future if auctions commit anymore scams, someone would be kind enough to share the info before domainers waste hundreds and thousands.

Where would you ever get such a crazy idea? This isn't a club. See above.

Trust no one and verify everything. You will not get any better business advise today that that.

 

[FlippaDomains]

:: Continued ::

A Look Ahead

I joined Flippa to build our domains unit, and to help our customers realize their entrepreneurial pursuits.

For those of you questioning our sales history, let me remind you once again that anything posted on DNJournal.com and our blog has been manually confirmed, twice over.

We grew fast, and that growth shed some light on a structure that can best be described as one that needs improvement.

Flippa Domains spawned out of a Websites marketplace, and being so closely tied together complicates things. We share a structure and business model with "this other side" of our business unit that isn't always able to yield a harmonious symmetry for each set of customers.

I constantly say things like "We're looking into this," and "This is on our radar," and blah blah. That's not just because I'm a "paid hack", but because...There is actually a vast opportunity we have to fix it.

We're a small company, still - and contrary to what some of you may understand, I am not the CEO. I work with a team who is extremely talented and dedicated to building a better platform, but we can't do it all - not all at once, at least.

But we can and should do the right things. And that's been my aim since the day I started. (I appreciate those who know this, per @equity78 's constant support and some like @domainshane who commented in this post here).

We're gearing into Year 3 of Flippa Domains.

I'm only personally invested in working for a Domain Marketplace because I have the intention of helping it become one of the best marketplaces.

I want to take a hard look at what we need to do to reclaim, claim or potentially claim your loyalty.

So...let me just get it off my chest:

I believe that our current system of Upgrades is shot. We can do better. It's not about pricing, but moreso what you get if you pay at all.

I'm internally pushing forward some ideas of what we can do, but my goal with this post is to provide a constructive space to examine how to create a better way to buy and sell domains in the future. Why the hell else are we here, right?

Moving forward...

 

[D. Wells]

I want to clear something up. I'm not a super seller on Flippa and the platform may account for 5% of my domain sales. But, I get all of these perks, the free upgrades, etc.

Anyone can get them as Kevin said. All you have to do is "network," I really don't know why there is a bunch of grown man complaining like babies about someone getting perks they are not getting... When all you have to do is take time out your day and build relationships with others in the business and you can get plenty of perks.

BUT, people rather sit here and gossip and complain...

 

[Domain Shane]

I'm officially changing my name to Dakota Greywolf to avoid any confusion. Starting soon DomainDakota.

It's been an entertaining few days here on the thread. Of all the threads I've read on Namepros this certainly was the most recent.​

 

[discobull]

"Hey everyone, look at all the terrible things Flippa has been doing to you with my assistance! "

But if you've been helping them scam us, doesn't that make you a scammer too?

"No, I only helped them scam you so I could make more money. That makes me a good business man. "

But, making more money is also the reason they were scamming us. Doesn't that therefore just make them good business people?

"No. I'm a good business man, they're scammers. Try to keep that straight."

Huh?

"Look, I also used my real name while I was sca... I mean doing business. As everyone knows, that makes me a real man. Now can we please go back to bashing Flippa?"


I'm suddenly feeling the need to take a shower...

 

[Omar Negron]