So you THOUGHT Flippa was shady?

[S-B]

Sorry in advance, Kevin. Should have had your people leave me alone.

Flippa has been the subject of much controversy over the last 6 months. Speculative talk has ranged from shill bidding to bloated sales reports. Most of the accusations are pure garbage but the company is sketchy as hell.

While you might be thinking that I’m bitter because I haven’t any luck there, you should know that I moved $75,000 of domains in 6 months. At one point, I was the first to go to bat for them all because I try to show some loyalty when someone is taking care of me.

However, I recently had my Super Seller status revoked “due to comments made towards other users.” In fact, this is due to my response to the auction where an individual claimed to have an offer on a 3 day old domain of 10,000 bitcoins — that’s $2,500,000. Apparently, calling out a scammer is grounds for retaliation from the business.

I suppose this is because Flippa values net revenue more than customer satisfaction.

Now that you know my motivation I will move on and share a little bit of insider information.

If you’re paying full price for listing fees and upgrades you have been scammed.

They have gone on the defensive in the past by saying that they “subsidize” upgrades for their top sellers. Subsidize is a cute word for giveaway.

I received somewhere between $3,000 to $5,000 in “subsidies” — as a private seller — over 6 months. At one point, I received $2,000 in credits at one time.

Now I won’t lie, sometimes I had to pay for listings. When I did, I still got hooked up. For every upgrade or listing I purchased I received 2 free.

So when I paid, which was rare, I paid 1/3 of what you’ve been paying. I’m sure you now see why some people make a killing off their platform while others have lost hundreds of dollars per listing.

Oh you thought Editor’s choice was for good domains? Nah. It has been a filter for friends of Flippa.

When I sold on Flippa’s platform, I was given Editor’s Choice for nearly all of my domains. Why? Because I asked.

I know some of you noticed that only 3-5 people showed up when visiting that page. Some might not care but others might understand the value of this.

Domains at Flippa sell for much more when given the Editor’s Choice designation.

Oh so you suspect shilling? I’ve known many users who have shilled their way to a profit. It doesn’t benefit Flippa to eliminate shilling. High sales mean higher success fees.

Simple as that.

Straight up scamming? Yep.

I’ve reported verifiable scams to customer support and I didn’t hear back until after the auction closed. They stated that it was now the buyer’s responsibility to report the sale if something fishy occurred.

Hmmmm.

Would the buyer receive a refund? No. Would the seller be suspended? Yes. Would Flippa still profit? Damn right.

At the end of the day, you can choose to use their platform of boycott them.

I will choose the latter.

P.S.

Have you been curious about what Flippa has been doing?

They are working on adding small business to their platform.

Yeah. Dump money into selling physical business without verifying any of their claims.

That should work. Everyone is honest. Right?

 

[FlippaDomains]

:: Continued ::

Upgrades

I would start by abolishing free upgrades, and then I would reduce the price of paid ones which will mean that ANY seller has the chance to promote a good domain, putting an end to the unfair advantage that they have been handing out to this select group of people that previously included Shane and bringing more liquidity to their market.

It's not about reducing the price, which will clog / oversaturate things further.

Some history:

In 2014, we had hundreds of auctions -- there were maybe 50-100 Premium listings at any one time, well seen.

Now with thousands of auctions and hundreds of Premium listings, it is harder to stand out -- but make no mistake: you still do: if you have a good or great domain, upgrades still work.

However, if you have a poor domain, no upgrade in the world (paid, subsidized, free) is going to help you. That's why sellers are now urged to message us first to discuss. When applicable, we recommend sellers bypass a paid auction / upgrade altogether and deposit the domain straight into their Flippa Portfolio for free.​

Also, let's clear one thing up:

There are no in-house Super Sellers who we "give special treatment to" any longer.

Furthermore, it's been specified in here that many of our sellers have been given listing credits and upgrade subsidies. Why? Because they asked or at least opened conversation with us so we could see how we could help them achieve what we're all here to do: sell domains.

Maybe from where I was sitting I was testing out a different price-point? A different model? Maybe I understand and agree with you that they're too expensive?!

We're about to have a frank conversation about upgrades (link to follow).


Editor's Choice Picks

Yes - upon inception of this program, I cast a wide net and threw a lot at the board to see what stuck. I - and I alone - set improper standards, plain and simple.

Forget about what was; moving forward, we're running a tight ship. No special / Super Sellers, in-house brokers and no more wide-net.

That said, we will maintain stringent curation:

Do you want your domains to be denoted as Editor's Choice?

Do you have domains like these?


Shane

Shane worked with me almost daily and was a terrific salesman, selling a large volume of domains.

What Shane left out at first is that he was also hired by us to broker on behalf of other sellers. He used a separate, Flippa Brokerage account for this.

I enjoyed working with him, but in May, we pivoted and acquired Domain Holdings and deactivated our in-house brokerage service.

I regret how we handled that transition. I invited Shane to continue his excellent work as a Super Seller under his personal account. Things got incredibly busy on my end and we lost touch.

Shane speaks his mind a lot, which I really respect. He's also a veteran and I for one thank him for his sacrifice and his service.


A Look Ahead

 

[FlippaDomains]

:: Continued ::

A Look Ahead

I joined Flippa to build our domains unit, and to help our customers realize their entrepreneurial pursuits.

For those of you questioning our sales history, let me remind you once again that anything posted on DNJournal.com and our blog has been manually confirmed, twice over.

We grew fast, and that growth shed some light on a structure that can best be described as one that needs improvement.

Flippa Domains spawned out of a Websites marketplace, and being so closely tied together complicates things. We share a structure and business model with "this other side" of our business unit that isn't always able to yield a harmonious symmetry for each set of customers.

I constantly say things like "We're looking into this," and "This is on our radar," and blah blah. That's not just because I'm a "paid hack", but because...There is actually a vast opportunity we have to fix it.

We're a small company, still - and contrary to what some of you may understand, I am not the CEO. I work with a team who is extremely talented and dedicated to building a better platform, but we can't do it all - not all at once, at least.

But we can and should do the right things. And that's been my aim since the day I started. (I appreciate those who know this, per @equity78 's constant support and some like @domainshane who commented in this post here).

We're gearing into Year 3 of Flippa Domains.

I'm only personally invested in working for a Domain Marketplace because I have the intention of helping it become one of the best marketplaces.

I want to take a hard look at what we need to do to reclaim, claim or potentially claim your loyalty.

So...let me just get it off my chest:

I believe that our current system of Upgrades is shot. We can do better. It's not about pricing, but moreso what you get if you pay at all.

I'm internally pushing forward some ideas of what we can do, but my goal with this post is to provide a constructive space to examine how to create a better way to buy and sell domains in the future. Why the hell else are we here, right?

Moving forward...

 

[S-B]

There is so much rampant, unchecked bullsh*t here that I have had to put aside my last three posts, just to edit and roll out a completely new response. I've woken up in the middle of the night to deploy this one. Then I'm going to be addressing what this post was really about, Shane and his time as a Flippa seller. Then I'm going to be addressing the future of Flippa Domains. Then I'm going to bed.

First thing I need to clear up, just plain and simple:

@sofiapartner ~ (and cc @ all haters)

You don't work for Flippa. I do.

You can't see what I can or know what I know. I love how you think and wish to prove otherwise.

The truth is that it won't matter what I say, do or write: you will probably never believe me.

No matter what I come here to try and explain, justify, backup, address...It won't matter. Flippa and those who have made it a successful platform, whether employees or sellers or brokers or whomever...will always be in the wrong in your eyes.

Don't agree with this statement? Good, then we have a chance to work together to address some fixes. But it's going to involve shoving aside everything that's ever happened and looking at ways to discuss and fix what's to come.



Once again, and let me actually be bold and close this down now -- for the last time:

Ali was not created by us; he made his own way. He lived in San Francisco and elsewhere before moving to Hawaii to get past some tough times. His business is his alone, and I won't delve further into his personal life other than to say...he's made his own way.

When he successfully sold a portfolio of "app" domains in July of 2014, I hadn't ever spoken to him before but decided to interview him for our blog.

His sales did start off slow and small, but I can verify every single subsequent sale of his -- those reported on our blog reports, those reported at Namebio, those on DNJournal.

They are real, and the investors that work with him now at his new venture, Perception, know that his current sales are real as well. Ali was not and is not some "marketing gimmick" created to fool the rest of you into choosing Flippa to sell your domains.



Actually, it was Ali who arranged the interview himself: we didn't know about it until a week before.

(Sidenote: I think insinuating that Michael Cyger could be bribed like this would offend him.)

Ali did an incredible job. We not only attracted a lot of new buyers and sellers, but some tremendous inventory that Ali (and then subsequently the other in-house brokers, @Shane Bellone being one them) gained access to auction on behalf of these domain owners.



And here's your answer, Sofia! KCGroup, meet...



Same account, different name.



I'll take it from here - he sold jack...right?



Sorry, how so? Wait, nevermind - you've already told me.



Ali paid for upgrades, just like Shane did. He also received help, just like everyone else we work with does. Do you want to work with us, too? I've made it clear how you can reach out to speak with an account rep.

As for the "special treatment" argument, I'll be addressing that in my next posts.



I can't speak of his earlier sales, although he may have wanted to delete them because they looked bad. That wasn't something Flippa presided over, as a seller has the right to delete whatever s/he sees fit.

What I can say is that by far and away your most egregious accusations are to suggest that his sales are not real.

I take personal offense to that. You don't sit in my seat and manually vet each and every DNJournal-reportable transaction as I do. You don't notice weird bid patterns and flag certain listings as I do. You don't see the communication between buyers and sellers as I do. You don't know if a buyer with "no" history is actually a multi-millionaire end user...as I do.

Ali's sales were vetted and confirmed, and are a testament to the unbelievable amount of followers he has amassed on our platform (a number which, it should be noted, Flippa can not fluff) and the buyers he found through his outbound sales efforts.

Had I uncovered something amiss or otherwise been skeptical of how this all came together, I would have spoken out here first. Do I think you would believe me? I doubt it.

Finishing off this thought: KCGroup's account is now Perception. I already mentioned that.

The "Ali Zandi" brokerage account was disabled once Ali left Flippa and is now being used by another Flippa (websites) broker.



This brings me joy to mention an oversight that you have remarkably left out, but I'll just sum it up with two words:

"Private Sales"

He has had many of them. Private to you. Private to DNJournal.

But all in all, Ali sold $550,000 worth of domain names in 10 weeks, from when he was hired in January until he began his own operation off-Flippa. His exact totals those prior six months were much closer and more accurate to what you deem to be his false claims.



You're welcome to continue. I'm moving on, as stated above, but feel free to speak to the other four people who believe the lies and misinformation you're typing.



Is it possible that @Shane Bellone and Ali were bidding on this domain because
a) it had once sold for $10k+ and
b) they were bidding back and forth to try and reclaim it for, which appears at the time looks to have been less than $1,000?

I'm actually not sure the backstory but...



That's what happened. This account was suspicious, and upon suspending and asking for ID / response, we heard nothing. We do that a lot now, in case you haven't noticed.



Actually, that's pretty normal when the buyer contacts the seller, asks the reserve price, and they negotiate a quick(er) sale.



It's nothing earth shattering, more of a "So long, nice working with you" sentiment. I'll try to get to it after I post this, and then get to the meat of what I really want to get across - which I hope is more constructive moving forward.



Namebio is an affiliate of Flippa. Actually, Namebio is among our top affiliates. Sales reported there are accurate until they aren't; in other words, if I find a reversed sale, I report it to those guys who take it down. I stand by our sales and they, for one, trust me.



cc @Jen-Sin, you asked

"Is it true that some SuperSellers took advantage of the free/subsidised upgrades and/or editor's choices and charged an additional 15% brokering fee on top of the success fee to list domains for others under their accounts?"'

This is a bit jumbled, I think.

Super Sellers were never authorized to charge 15% and broker/sell on behalf of others.

In-house brokers of Flippa (Ali was our first official hire, then Shane and a couple of others) were brokering for a 15% cut that went to Flippa (in-house sellers were then paid out a percentage of that).

We DID - sorry let me rephrase - I did - help our in-house brokers with better exposure, upgrades, Editor's Choice picks, etc. That was the initial trial of our curation efforts. This is mainly what Shane is referring to when he talks about "special treatment." Many other sellers got subsidies and freebies, because...we help those who ask! This has never been a secret!

A company's curation efforts are boosting their best inventory to the top, and that is what we did.

Actually, this is a pretty good segue into my next post...

:: Continued ::

Upgrades

​

It's not about reducing the price, which will clog / oversaturate things further.

Some history:

In 2014, we had hundreds of auctions -- there were maybe 50-100 Premium listings at any one time, well seen.

Now with thousands of auctions and hundreds of Premium listings, it is harder to stand out -- but make no mistake: you still do: if you have a good or great domain, upgrades still work.

However, if you have a poor domain, no upgrade in the world (paid, subsidized, free) is going to help you. That's why sellers are now urged to message us first to discuss. When applicable, we recommend sellers bypass a paid auction / upgrade altogether and deposit the domain straight into their Flippa Portfolio for free.​

Also, let's clear one thing up:

There are no in-house Super Sellers who we "give special treatment to" any longer.

Furthermore, it's been specified in here that many of our sellers have been given listing credits and upgrade subsidies. Why? Because they asked or at least opened conversation with us so we could see how we could help them achieve what we're all here to do: sell domains.

Maybe from where I was sitting I was testing out a different price-point? A different model? Maybe I understand and agree with you that they're too expensive?!

We're about to have a frank conversation about upgrades (link to follow).


Editor's Choice Picks

Yes - upon inception of this program, I cast a wide net and threw a lot at the board to see what stuck. I - and I alone - set improper standards, plain and simple.

Forget about what was; moving forward, we're running a tight ship. No special / Super Sellers, in-house brokers and no more wide-net.

That said, we will maintain stringent curation:

Do you want your domains to be denoted as Editor's Choice?

Do you have domains like these?


Shane

Shane worked with me almost daily and was a terrific salesman, selling a large volume of domains.

What Shane left out at first is that he was also hired by us to broker on behalf of other sellers. He used a separate, Flippa Brokerage account for this.

I enjoyed working with him, but in May, we pivoted and acquired Domain Holdings and deactivated our in-house brokerage service.

I regret how we handled that transition. I invited Shane to continue his excellent work as a Super Seller under his personal account. Things got incredibly busy on my end and we lost touch.

Shane speaks his mind a lot, which I really respect. He's also a veteran and I for one thank him for his sacrifice and his service.


A Look Ahead

:: Continued ::

A Look Ahead

I joined Flippa to build our domains unit, and to help our customers realize their entrepreneurial pursuits.

We've made some progress -- for those of you questioning our sales history, let me remind you that anything posted on DNJournal.com and our blog has been manually confirmed by me, twice over.

As for the things you love to hate about us: while we can't please everyone, we can surely do better (as all platforms can).

Flippa Domains spawned out of a Website marketplace, and yet being so closely tied together complicates things.

We grew fast, and that growth shed some light on a structure that can best be described as one that needs improvement.

I constantly say things like "We're looking into this," and "This is on our radar," and blah blah. That's not just because I'm a "paid hack" (link), but because...There is actually a vast opportunity we have to fix it.

We're a small company, still - and contrary to what some of you may understand, I am not the CEO. I work with a team who is extremely talented and dedicated to building a better platform, but we can't do it all - not all at once, at least.

But we can and should do the right things. And that's been my aim since the day I started. (I appreciate those who know this) (per comments in @equity78 's post here).

We're gearing into Year 3 of Flippa Domains and ...let me just get it off my chest:

I think the system of Upgrades is shot. We can do better. It's not about pricing, but moreso what you get if you pay at all. I'm internally pushing forward some ideas of what we can do, but my goal with this post is to provide a constructive space to examine how to create a better way to buy and sell domains in the future. Why the hell else are we here, right?

Follow me here...

Great responses, Kevin. You handle the shit hands you've been dealt with grace. Much respect.

With this being said, the following is a huge issue:

Many other sellers got subsidies and freebies, because...we help those who ask! This has never been a secret!

While Flippa is no longer giving handouts to people they are nurturing relationships with, they are still giving away services that others pay for. This creates a disparity between those who know and those who don't. This will always be a sore spot and a borderline scam.

 

[FlippaDomains]

While Flippa is no longer giving handouts to people they are nurturing relationships with, they are still giving away services that others pay for. This creates a disparity between those who know and those who don't. This will always be a sore spot and a borderline scam.

I understand that. We may do away with this altogether.

Sound off.

 

[DNabc]

It's refreshing to see honesty and publicly accepting mistakes in an industry that sometimes makes me lose my patience... And I'm almost a saint!

 

[HeyNow]

I understand that. We may do away with this altogether.

Sound off.

We may do away with this altogether.
We're re-evaluating that.
We're doing something about the other thing soon.
Gonna give employees bidding tags.
We're working on it.
Changing that policy soon.
We can improve on that and are working on it.

And then nothing changes. Nothing. Oh yeah, one thing changes: Hey everyone, did ya' see the swell new home page?

Blah, blah, blah, blah. Lots of vague, non-committed responses, over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

Domainers are so used to getting BS and non-answers to real problems that we just think it's the norm. This nonsense became truly apparent with Image Online Design way back when, then Moniker and bunches of others, including Snapnames.

No wonder your word here isn't worth a damn, IMHO.

 

[D. Wells]

I want to clear something up. I'm not a super seller on Flippa and the platform may account for 5% of my domain sales. But, I get all of these perks, the free upgrades, etc.

Anyone can get them as Kevin said. All you have to do is "network," I really don't know why there is a bunch of grown man complaining like babies about someone getting perks they are not getting... When all you have to do is take time out your day and build relationships with others in the business and you can get plenty of perks.

BUT, people rather sit here and gossip and complain...

 

[iowadawg]

Wow...that was a bit harsh!
I never sold, joined, or have a thing to do with flippa.
I have read threads and post for quite some time, all bashing flippa with some sane people saying good things about flippa.
Sad part is the good of flippa is ignored by too many who love bashing them.
Reading more from Shane and FlippaDomains leads me to believe that there was a problem that was not handled right by both parties.
But both are good people, flippa is good company.
So let's quit with the bashing.

 

[HeyNow]

flippa is good company.

Compared to what?

 

[iowadawg]

HeyNow, my thoughts are this:
Start your own company then.
Quit bashing a successful company!

 

[HeyNow]

HeyNow, my thoughts are this:
Start your own company then.
Quit bashing a successful company!

Well, to me that's like saying I shouldn't begrudge the successful jewel thief for stealing my diamonds and gold. If I don't like the fact that the jewel thief is living large off of stealing the jewels I paid honest cash for, then I can go start my own jewel thief business. And the thought of bashing that jewel thief, calling the police, and warning my neighbors that there's a jewel thief on the loose? Why, that's absolutely OUTRAGEOUS!

I must be some sort of neanderfuck not to have come to the conclusions and solutions you proffer here.

 

[iowadawg]

The logic of some people here is so funny!

 

[D. Wells]

Well, to me that's like saying I shouldn't begrudge the successful jewel thief for stealing my diamonds and gold. If I don't like the fact that the jewel thief is living large off of stealing the jewels I paid honest cash for, then I can go start my own jewel thief business. And the thought of bashing that jewel thief, calling the police, and warning my neighbors that there's a jewel thief on the loose? Why, that's absolutely OUTRAGEOUS!

I must be some sort of neanderf*ck not to have come to the conclusions and solutions you proffer here.

Or you can find ways to better secure your jewels and make better decisions on where to put them. Then, you put the jewel thief out of business. BUT, sometimes the jewel thief doesn't steal your jewels, you just give it to him.

 

[iowadawg]

 

[HeyNow]

Or you can find ways to better secure your jewels and make better decisions on where to put them. Then, you put the jewel thief out of business.

Well, if the jewel thief comes to my house, I'm going to warn my neighbors and call the police. Looks to me like your saying that if the jewel thief stole from your house, you'd just hide your jewels in a more secure spot. And as far as your neighbors are concerned? They can find out for themselves the hard way! Haha! Dog eat dog, right? F-'em. The turkey next door wouldn't loan me his lawn mower. He deserves to get robbed.

This forum is great. It really helps one decide who has good character and who just slithered out from beneath the rock pile.

 

[D. Wells]

Well, if the jewel thief comes to my house, I'm going to warn my neighbors and call the police. Looks to me like your saying that if the jewel thief stole from your house, you'd just hide your jewels in a more secure spot. And as far as your neighbors are concerned? They can find out for themselves the hard way! Haha! Dog eat dog, right? F-'em. The turkey next door wouldn't loan me his lawn mower. He deserves to get robbed.

This forum is great. It really helps one decide who has good character and who just slithered out from beneath the rock pile.

Dude, what are you talking about? You lost me......

 

[HeyNow]

Dude, what are you talking about? You lost me......

Of course I lost you. I'm talking about doing the right thing. Of course I lost you.

 

[iowadawg]

Wrong person is lost here. It aint me and it aint D. Wells.
It is the person who posted between our posts.
Hahahhahaha...just saying.

 

[HeyNow]

Wrong person is lost here. It aint me and it aint D. Wells.
It is the person who posted between our posts.
Hahahhahaha...just saying.

No, I don't think so. Yes, you are "just saying." And that's all you do anyway. Nothing really constructive, only "just saying."

 

[D. Wells]

Of course I lost you. I'm talking about doing the right thing. Of course I lost you.

Sorry man, I'm a businessman... I separate business from my personal feelings... Flippa is running a BUSINESS... You think they give a f*ck about you are anyone else emotions?

Sorry but there is only ONE rule in a for-profit business and that is to make money.... All the other stuff is irrelevant... When Flippa comes and rob you or anyone else at gunpoint then holla at me... Otherwise it's just complaining.... And where I come from, MAN don't complain...

If you hate Flippa so much, start your own platform and destroy them... How about that?

 

[HeyNow]

Sorry man, I'm a businessman... I separate business from my personal feelings... Flippa is running a BUSINESS... You think they give a f*ck about you are anyone else emotions?

Sure, you're a business man, okay, I'll play along. Nope, I don't think Flippa give a fuck about anyone's emotions. I don't either. I give a fuck about ethics and the law, period. Oh yes, I do give a fuck about my neighbors and the overall perception of the domain aftermarket business. Any negative stigma or crimes not prosecuted only diminish the value of my portfolio, and yours.

There are lots individuals with their own businesses picking pockets and purse snatching at the county fair. Most get away with it. Congratulations, you and they may have something in common.

 

[DomainGist]

Shane speaks his mind a lot, which I really respect.

So to summarise a high profile domainer starts a thread on Namepros effectively calling you a scammer, and you "really respect" him, for 'speaking his mind'.

Then you label other people who speak their mind about your business as "haters", and say that they are talking "bullshit", and won't change their opinion about you no matter what they say. I haven't seen Shane retract his comments either, has he changed his mind? Perhaps he ought to tell us so, if he has.

Then we have iowadawg stating that we shouldn't be critical of either Shane or flippa domains, because Shane's a great guy, and Flippa are a great business, although it is quite OK for Shane to be heavily critical of flippa, because he's a great guy, and flippa to be critical of namepros users, because they are a great business.

Utterly bizarre spectacle for the neutral. Perhaps iowadawg should reconsider his stance, and acknowledge that both parties deserve everything they get for airing their dirty laundry in public. They invite public criticism the moment they decide to have their little lovers tiff on a public forum, nobody other than those parties have created this situation.

 

[S-B]

Shane's a great guy

Awwww. You're so sweet.

 

[DomainGist]

Awwww. You're so sweet.

I've got absolutely nothing against you fella, although I do suspect you at least very slightly regret starting this thread, for various reasons which you probably won't admit.

 

[S-B]

I've got absolutely nothing against you fella, although I do suspect you at least very slightly regret starting this thread, for various reasons which you probably won't admit.

Not at all. This has actually motivated me to start a blog where I can freely rant (stay tuned).

I'd say after ~10,000 views, ~200 replies, and ~75 likes on the original post that I've succeeded.