discuss [Resolved] Domainer Loses $26k On A Stolen Domain!

[Silentptnr]

Darn! Another scam and this time it is an experienced domainer James Booth.

James must have thought he was making a sound acquisition as he transferred approximately 26k to escrow for CQD.com. Instead, after completing the escrow, the domain was taken from his account by the registrar without notification and returned to the "true" owner.

Turns out the person that sold him the domain CQD.com, may not have been the true owner.

Apparently this incident involves several parties including the registrar and the escrow.


Thanks to Theo over at DomainGang for the tip on this.

 

[offthehandle]

In the end, I think Booth will have to return the domain to her, but if she was contributorily negligent and he was indeed a bona fide purchaser, she might have to compensate him for what he paid before getting the domain back.

I had to read that twice. Thanks for the explanation. Well, I thought this was less complicated. This contributory negligence sounds like those lawsuits for example where fault is put on both sides, like to simplify this, say where you neighbors kids climb over your tall fence, jump in and drown in your pool. Then you as a homeowner are sued by the dead kids parents and are found liable. The court awards damages to the kids parents since the fence was not covered with barbed wire, not tall enough, etc.

If I were advised that I were to risk having to pay court costs AND lose AND pay to return the domain under the circumstances proposed, I wouldn’t chase after it.

 

[Silentptnr]

Heres the thing, escrow.com has ip addresses, and all sorts of information. They would be the most helpful in solving the entire mystery. At least two escrows went through them. I would have a lawyer write them with her police reports and get more info. It would need to be a written request, from an attorney.

 

[offthehandle]

Heres the thing, escrow.com has ip addresses, and all sorts of information. They would be the most helpful in solving the entire mystery. At least two escrows went through them. I would have a lawyer call them with her police reports and get more info. It would need to be a written request from an attorney.

And the burden of proof is on the original registrant. Sounds like a $5000 retainer to get started.

 

[Silentptnr]

I had to read that twice. Thanks for the explanation. Well, I thought this was less complicated. This contributory negligence sounds like those lawsuits for example where fault is put on both sides, like to simplify this, say where you neighbors kids climb over your tall fence, jump in and drown in your pool. Then you as a homeowner are sued by the dead kids parents and are found liable. The court awards damages to the kids parents since the fence was not covered with barbed wire, not tall enough, etc.

If I were advised that I were to risk having to pay court costs AND lose AND pay to return the domain under the circumstances proposed, I wouldn’t chase after it.

I agree. Given all this story, Id try to tell myself, my investment was 8 bucks for 22 years. Thats $176. Let me see what I can afford to chase this. This James has $25k in this mess. Even if he knew, which I cant prove, he isnt going to walk from 25k easy.

 

[offthehandle]

I agree. Given all this story, Id try to tell myself, my investment was 8 bucks for 22 years. Thats $176. Let me see what I can afford to chase this. This James has $25k in this mess. Even if he knew, which I cant prove, he isnt going to walk from 25k easy.

Nor can he easily sell this domain unless the parties arbitrate as suggested early on.

I was doing a bunch of searches too today on what both you guys posted today. Did you see the Clone Queen threads... cqdna(.)com. They are in your area I believe. Strange situation and blog posts from a disgruntled ex girlfriend.

 

[equity78]

I agree. Given all this story, Id try to tell myself, my investment was 8 bucks for 22 years. Thats $176. Let me see what I can afford to chase this. This James has $25k in this mess. Even if he knew, which I cant prove, he isnt going to walk from 25k easy.

I don't spend other people's money, and I am not his financial adviser, but we do have to wonder David why isn't he walking? If he is not walking then why? I am not putting words in his mouth but just some hypothetical possibilities:

he thinks Rebecca is lying
he plans to deplete her bank account tying this up in court
he wants a court to prove it to him

Let's also be honest James might be lucky Rebecca is who she is, I know some guys that would have been in Singapore within two days and getting scammed might not be the biggest worry.

 

[Silentptnr]

I ask myself, if someone called me and told me their IT person stole their valuable name they didnt properly handle the domain and just wanted it back at no cost. They immediately start attacking me.

What would I do?

Give it right back and lose my money or lawyer up?

Honestly.

 

[equity78]

I ask myself, if someone called me and told me their IT person stole their valuable name they didnt properly handle the domain and just wanted it back at no cost. They immediately start attacking me.

What would I do?

Give it right back and lose my money or lawyer up?

Honestly.

Well I do agree with you there, this has to stop being litigated on Namepros and get into a real court with real authority.

 

[Silentptnr]

I don't spend other people's money, and I am not his financial adviser, but we do have to wonder David why isn't he walking? If he is not walking then why? I am not putting words in his mouth but just some hypothetical possibilities:

he thinks Rebecca is lying
he plans to deplete her bank account tying this up in court
he wants a court to prove it to him

Let's also be honest James might be lucky Rebecca is who she is, I know some guys that would have been in Singapore within two days and getting scammed might not be the biggest worry.

Ive said before. I find it super hard to believe james had no inkling of something weird. I also dont think he thought he would lose 25k. Hard one to figure out.
I think James is just trying to not lose the money. Not deplete her. Not any of that. I just think hes screwed to lose 25000 real dollars. Its not leverage. Just money that would hurt most people to lose.

 

[wwwweb]

The thing that's odd here is how quickly Netsol belly flopped and returned the name back to Booth. What proof was so overwhelming to get the register to do this ultra-rare feat? Or did they just cave into well-known domainer with lawyers? Could Joe NP Dude send an email or letter to Netsol showing they paid the whois email and get the domain back? Feels like a no.

It's this returning of the domain by the register that gives Booth the determination to hold on to it.

But like Baseball's "the tie goes to the runner" rule, feels the domain will go back to the first owner if this goes far enough down the legal road.

He stated he hired domain lawyer Z M, maybe he made a case, he has a lot of experience in the industry.

 

[Silentptnr]

Well I do agree with you there, this has to stop being litigated on Namepros and get into a real court with real authority.

Agree 100%. But I love how domain owers come to the aid of anyone claiming they were taken advatage of. Its like NP is the place to go to report bad sh*t and get help.

We are the superheroes of domain names!

 

[offthehandle]

Are you aware there are (3) ripoff reports now?

I didnt see the first one:

What is he? the Great and Powerful Oz of Domains? He, who in the swipe of a hand sends domains off to a "buyer"? Tom Lam prove to me that I was the one who sold my domain! You can't because I didn't have any part of it. My domain was hijacked. It was stolen! Show me where my IP address to my computer is connected to the email coorespondence between the buyer and the "seller". Show me!


https://www.ripoffreport.com/report...bcom-company-tom-lam-director-abuse-a-1433373

 

[wwwweb]

And the burden of proof is on the original registrant. Sounds like a $5000 retainer to get started.

To be honest, I have seen lawyers type with one finger at a time just entering name, and address, trying to get the the facts straight, it wouldn't even scratch the surface.

Escrow will most likely have to submit to a subpoena, which has to be prepared, submitted, and served, and then discovery etc... basically if this is a $25-40K domain, her legal fees are going to eat the worth of the domain. If she compiles a proper team who does their job, and gets to the bottom of it, most likely she comes out of this with the name, but James will have wasted a lot of money in legal fees also if he wants to defend it.

Nobody wants to take the loss on this one.

I think at one point we have probably forgot to renew a really good domain over the years, or it got forgotten about in some obscure drop register, it's a sickening feeling, 3L's are like a gold bar, I can imagine that feeling, especially if you hand reg'd it, and said no to offers for 20 years.

 

[Silentptnr]

Are you aware there are (3) ripoff reports now?

I didnt see the first one:

What is he? the Great and Powerful Oz of Domains? He, who in the swipe of a hand sends domains off to a "buyer"? Tom Lam prove to me that I was the one who sold my domain! You can't because I didn't have any part of it. My domain was hijacked. It was stolen! Show me where my IP address to my computer is connected to the email coorespondence between the buyer and the "seller". Show me!


https://www.ripoffreport.com/report...bcom-company-tom-lam-director-abuse-a-1433373

Its interesting because it reminds me of the owner versus registrant debate.

 

[offthehandle]

To be honest, I have seen lawyers type with one finger at a time just entering name, and address, trying to get the the facts straight, it wouldn't even scratch the surface.

.

Yea, I hated to read that as exactly what happened to me years back.
Non computer literate, lost files, botched files, merged incorrectly with wordperfect, and it cost me to fix it for him. $350-400. an hour goes fast if you get too deep with the wrong one.

 

[wwwweb]

Yea, I hated to read that as exactly what happened to me years back.
Non computer literate, lost files, botched files, merged incorrectly with wordperfect, and it cost me to fix it for him. $350-400. an hour goes fast if you get too deep with the wrong one.

You are 100% right, thing is there are only a few firms that specialize in this domain space, and it looks like James is already represented by 1 of the best. The biggest mistake she could make is going with a firm that has little experience in this space.

Rein, for instance, reported charging $920 per hour in 2012, which the firm noted was less than the $1,250 hourly rate charged by certain partners at Dickstein Shapiro, according to a survey by The National Law Journal. This year, Rein's hourly rate went up to $950

the firm's overall average hourly rate was approximately $431.

 

[carob]

Just wondering if business insurance or identity theft insurance would cover the loss of a valuable domain name.

 

[offthehandle]

You are 100% right, thing is there are only a few firms that specialize in this domain space, and it looks like James is already represented by 1 of the best. The biggest mistake she could make is going with a firm that has little experience in this space.

Rein, for instance, reported charging $920 per hour in 2012, which the firm noted was less than the $1,250 hourly rate charged by certain partners at Dickstein Shapiro, according to a survey by The National Law Journal. This year, Rein's hourly rate went up to $950

the firm's overall average hourly rate was approximately $431.

This is most likely why things are happening the way they are. Force her to file first. Getting the transfer pushed back probably cost 2-3 billable hours already.

 

[offthehandle]

Just wondering if business insurance or identity theft insurance would cover the loss of a valuable domain name.

Insurance companies are very specific to the nth detail. It would be interesting to know if specific companies offer such, that’s for sure. Since it’s low probability of theft, would be a good niche business with few claims. I recall a high water table issue causing a flood inside a house and the insurance company weaseled out even though the people had flood insurance. The flood needed to occur from water intrusion outside. Go figure. Details like that.

 

[wwwweb]

Insurance companies are very specific to the nth detail. It would be interesting to know if specific companies offer such, that’s for sure. Since it’s low probability of theft, would be a good niche business with few claims. I recall a high water table issue causing a flood inside a house and the insurance company weaseled out even though the people had flood insurance. The flood needed to occur from water intrusion outside. Go figure. Details like that.

Yes, another murky discussion also, most will insure, but will put a clause if you live in a designated flood plain, and never pay. Would be very hard to get them to pay, something most would not understand, but still would get confused in this maze of mystery buyers, and sellers.

 

[offthehandle]

Some will insure you, but will put a clause if you live in a designated flood plain. b

. Dont want to derail this but, it was a foodplain area. They paid like an extra $1000. For 5 years, then huge amount of rainfall, cracks in foundation and water was cornered to only exit inside house, no french drains where located.

Domain theft policy could be lucrative, but such a small market would probably make no sense.

 

[DNWon]

Are you aware there are (3) ripoff reports now?

I didnt see the first one:

What is he? the Great and Powerful Oz of Domains? He, who in the swipe of a hand sends domains off to a "buyer"? Tom Lam prove to me that I was the one who sold my domain! You can't because I didn't have any part of it. My domain was hijacked. It was stolen! Show me where my IP address to my computer is connected to the email coorespondence between the buyer and the "seller". Show me!


https://www.ripoffreport.com/report...bcom-company-tom-lam-director-abuse-a-1433373

This is exactly what I'm talking about with Rebecca losing focus and adding things to her complaints that have little to do with reality. In this report, and many other thread entries, she keeps using the terms that she did not put "blue ink pen to paper" as if unsigned online contracts have no legal bearing or that this couldn't possibly be a legal transaction because she only signs contracts with blue ink pen. Online transactions are completed everyday with no more than a click of mouse and a check in a box, so to keep repeating this line is extremely unhelpful to her case and makes her look a little out of touch with reality! You have to sift through a lot of noise to get to her facts!

 

[Silentptnr]

I have said that Rebecca needs help with this. Noone will want to help if she keeps attacking people.

As much as I want to believe that domain names are property and that I buy and sell property, I feel that domains are really registrations I control as long as I pay the renewals. I simply sell the control of the use of the domain name. Im okay with that.

Registrars should play a big role in making sure their clients domain registrations are safe. They should ensure the identity of their clients from the start. They should use secret questions. They should require opt out of tfa. They should require ID upload.

If we hold experienced domainers to a higher standard, we should hold registrars to the highest standard. The relationship between registrar and registrant should be supportive and not adversarial.

IMHO

 

[wwwweb]

This is exactly what I'm talking about with Rebecca losing focus and adding things to her complaints that have little to do with reality. In this report, and many other thread entries, she keeps using the terms that she did not put "blue ink pen to paper" as if unsigned online contracts have no legal bearing or that this couldn't possibly be a legal transaction because she only signs contracts with blue ink pen. Online transactions are completed everyday with no more than a click of mouse and a check in a box, so to keep repeating this line is extremely unhelpful to her case and makes her look a little out of touch with reality! You have to sift through a lot of noise to get to her facts!

I think she is old school when it comes to this kind of stuff, I mean first time I used docusign, which some people here have also used, others have probably not, I was pretty amazed also. Blue ink to paper, is a real paper document, with a witnessed signature, it’s the hard copy way of doing things, and some people don’t trust the internet, because they don’t know whose on the other side, much like this transaction. Where if it was notarized maybe a fail safe would have prevented this; but we are moving more towards smart contracts, and paperless transactions. If her signature, and id could be verified on the Blockchain, and what not maybe it would be a different scenario today, but we are a few years out from that.

 

[MasterOfMyDomains]

Rebecca attacked once. Thats what she does when she feels betrayed, she files a ripoff report. I saw the others she made.
You continually make it sound like her fault because of an aggressive move this woman made.
RR big deal really, i havent even gone to see it.
Everyone is being open except one of the victims.