discuss [Resolved] Domainer Loses $26k On A Stolen Domain!

[Silentptnr]

Darn! Another scam and this time it is an experienced domainer James Booth.

James must have thought he was making a sound acquisition as he transferred approximately 26k to escrow for CQD.com. Instead, after completing the escrow, the domain was taken from his account by the registrar without notification and returned to the "true" owner.

Turns out the person that sold him the domain CQD.com, may not have been the true owner.

Apparently this incident involves several parties including the registrar and the escrow.


Thanks to Theo over at DomainGang for the tip on this.

 

[wwwweb]

Rebecca attacked once. Thats what she does when she feels betrayed, she files a ripoff report. I saw the others she made.
You continually make it sound like her fault because of an aggressive move this woman made.
RR big deal really, i havent even gone to see it.
Everyone is being open except one of the victims.

How many of us would go on the offensive after discovering someone made off with one of our domains, after a falsified contract was completed with escrow, especially if we were banking on it to pad our retirement.

People get unhinged when their credit card company charges them a late fee, this person valued this as a 6 figure asset, so she kind of went into the scared raccoon in a corner mode. Is it right, most likely not, is it a human feature, most likely so.

We got to put ourselves in her shoes, your register pulls the domain out of your account, they won’t give you any support, escrow says your cashing checks in California, albeit trying to manage work, and a household, it’s only human to go online, and just vent.

 

[Silentptnr]

How many of us would go on the offensive after discovering someone made off with one of our domains, after a falsified contract was completed with escrow, especially if we were banking on it to pad our retirement.

People get unhinged when their credit card company charges them a late fee, this person valued this as a 6 figure asset, so she kind of went into the scared raccoon in a corner mode. Is it right, most likely not, is it a human feature, most likely so.

We got to put ourselves in her shoes, your register pulls the domain out of your account, they won’t give you any support, escrow says your cashing checks in California, albeit trying to manage work, and a household, it’s only human to go online, and just vent.

Everyone reacts differently. Thats human nature. Her actions affect her, not us.

I just know that those things are probably giving the thief a real laugh.

I have to believe that Netsol received strong evidence in order to move the name to James. They dont know Rebecca or her attorneys, or her financial position. I dont think they just got a call and gave it to him. They probably have a lot more proof.

I know Rebecca would say, But they dont have my signature, IP, or voice, but hey dont usually get a signature, they dont check voices, and you can manage a domain from any ip address.

 

[Silentptnr]

I know she just wants her name back, but its just not that simple unfortunately. She will do much better when she accepts the reality that this is a legal issue now. No amount of posting on websites is going to bring it back.

 

[DNWon]

I have to believe that Netsol received strong evidence in order to move the name to James. They dont know Rebecca or her attorneys, or her financial position. I dont think they just got a call and gave it to him. They probably have a lot more proof.

I think their only "strong" evidence is James sent them the Escrow.com transaction receipt, the name was moved from Rebecca's account to James account by the thief. I believe Rebecca hasn't provided them any evidence to the contrary that her account was hacked, so from Netsol's perspective, deal completed! This isn't really about Netsol, not doing their job, although I'm sure there is plenty of evidence suggesting the account most likely has been tampered with (ie: changed email addresses, phone numbers, ip log in sites etc.) just prior to the theft. This is about Escrow.com not doing theirs, or doing it very poorly at the least! They paid a thief with what I bet was very suspect identification documentation! Follow the money!

 

[wwwweb]

I think their only "strong" evidence is James sent them the Escrow.com transaction receipt, the name was moved from Rebecca's account to James account by the thief. I believe Rebecca hasn't provided them any evidence to the contrary that her account was hacked, so from Netsol's perspective, deal completed! This isn't really about Netsol, not doing their job, although I'm sure there is plenty of evidence suggesting the account most likely has been tampered with (ie: changed email addresses, phone numbers, ip log in sites etc.) just prior to the theft. This is about Escrow.com not doing theirs, or doing it very poorly at the least! They paid a thief with what I bet was very suspect identification documentation! Follow the money!

Well stated, I mean it looks like J Booth is using attorney Z M, who is well regarded in the industry for many of his extra efforts to protect the industry from reverse udrps etc...

If she hires attorneys that have little knowledge of the domain industry, they are easily going to run her up $50k, in dealing with web, escrow, James, person x, etc...

She needs to be smart use the media, use crowd funding, use her local news, I mean if she is in real estate, side business of graphics design, runs equestrian camps for kids, she needs to use this base, and get viral traction.

I think even James attorney if still Z M would put pressure on him to settle, as he would not want to be seen as the losing attorney on this case of a stolen domain from a working woman who is known throughout her community circles if it went viral. It would put pressure on web.com, who is a stone wall when it comes to support of any kind in such cases also. Maybe escrow also, as it is a black eye on their services, she shouldn’t waste her time here to be honest. She needs to tell her story, as true it is to her, without any implied attacks, but more from the side of a victim, in the sense it could happen to anyone of us.

The lawyers are going to eat this one up, just to many parties involved, $25k for a case like this is nothing.

 

[carob]

There are a couple of points that would be worth looking at objectively here, to have more information.

There are already many stories on NP of Netsol taking domains out of accounts without even notifying the account holder. This seems to happen when the previous owner requests it.

What info does a previous domain owner have to provide to Netsol to get them to move a domain back to the previous owner?

And in this case, having moved the domain back to the account of the previous owner, Netsol then reversed that and moved the domain back to the new owner.

What information would a new owner have to provide to Netsol to get back a domain Netsol had moved back to the previous owner's account?

A lot hinges on what steps are needed to push a domain at Netsol. Bear in mind, now changing the registrant of a .com domain requires consent from the existing registrant's email address, but that is not the same as pushing from one account to another - a separate process.

The info that Netsol can see that we cannot would be what exactly? Login times and IP addresses, and any changes to account holder info. Registrant info change we can see in WHOIS records.

Edit: Netsol can also see payment details of who paid to renew a domain.

 

[tonyk2000]

If she hires attorneys that have little knowledge of the domain industry, they are easily going to run her up $50k

As the last resort (NOT recommended though) she might hire some paralegal who will prepare the papers following recommendations from this thread, such as incuding precedent data posted by mr. Berryhill (the case discussed was somewhat similar).
In any case, hiring a lawyer who may not understand the difference between registrar and registrant, domain and website - but will still charge $50K - is something that should be avoided.

 

[tonyk2000]

As a side note, since mr. Booth knowingly elected to keep (allegedly) stolen property, he should not be surprised to find out that his potential customers will soon be considering any and all other domains he offers as potentially stolen or otherwise questionable. Such an outcome is possible. Reputation is everything in this industry...

 

[offthehandle]

Where is Rebecca? @spoiltrider

 

[offthehandle]

She needs to be smart use the media, use crowd funding, use her local news, I mean if she is in real estate, side business of graphics design, runs equestrian camps for kids, she needs to use this base, and get viral traction.

Glad you also posted that move. I mentioned that earlier and looked up and posted various links she should contact, but she didn’t respond yet. The court of public opinion could get pretty bad, especially if this isn’t settled. Various parties involved could get some unwanted publicity.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

Where is Rebecca? @spoiltrider

She's busy working on figuring out how this all happened, and taking steps to get her domain back.

Better question, Where is @BoothDomains ?

 

[offthehandle]

She's busy working on figuring out how this all happened, and taking steps to get her domain back.

Better question, Where is @BoothDomains ?

I am glad that she is gathering her evidence up. Even at that though, this does not appear to be a simple transfer and earlier legal points made, the current registrant has most likely been advised by counsel to remain silent and hold out. This is might be looking like a legal manuevering game. Even if it is transfered back, she still may have to deal with this legally, very unfortunately.

 

[wwwweb]

I am glad that she is gathering her evidence up. Even at that though, this does not appear to be a simple transfer and earlier legal points made, the current registrant has most likely been advised by counsel to remain silent and hold out. This is might be looking like a legal manuevering game. Even if it is transfered back, she still may have to deal with this legally, very unfortunately.

It has to go legal if network solutions is not cooperating, as the defence of what evidence James Booth’s attorney attached to network solutions to compel the transfer of the domain from her account to his.

I would think going after network solutions for the unauthorized transfer might be her best point of attack from a first offensive, given they both reside in the same state. Talk is cheap, but legal action is real, and when their lawyers involved, they are going to take notice.

Right now she is just an angry customer they can put on mute, they don’t have to answer anything if they don’t want to. She has to force their hands now. If network solutions never handed the domain back, this thread would never even exist.

 

[carob]

Another point about Netsol moving domains from one account to another themselves: do they in this case also change the registrant? Under what circumstances are they allowed to do that?

Because if you move a domain from one account another without changing the registrant, the person who now has it in their account can't change the registrant to be themself without getting consent from the email of the registrant who is already in the WHOIS.

 

[wwwweb]

As a side note, since mr. Booth knowingly elected to keep (allegedly) stolen property, he should not be surprised to find out that his potential customers will soon be considering any and all other domains he offers as potentially stolen or otherwise questionable. Such an outcome is possible. Reputation is everything in this industry...

Your right in the event it does go legal, and Rebecca is victorious, that verdict is going to hang over Mr.Booth, as people tend to simply look at the outcome, not tr events that got them there in the end.

 

[Silentptnr]

What could happen is Rebecca gets the domain back then gets sued and loses everything including the domain because of her posts.

I dont think she should say more.

As mentioned, reputation is everything. She hurt his. And it cant ever be fixed.

Just food for thought.

 

[Silentptnr]

I wouldnt be surprised if web.com or booth or even NP filed suit.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

As mentioned, reputation is everything. She hurt his.

How?

... I don't think James has done anything to help his reputation. Despite the multiple opportunities he has had to do so.

 

[Silentptnr]

How?

... I don't think James has done anything to help his reputation. Despite the multiple opportunities he has had to do so.

Very true

 

[offthehandle]

What could happen is Rebecca gets the domain back then gets sued and loses everything including the domain because of her posts.

I dont think she should say more.

As mentioned, reputation is everything. She hurt his. And it cant ever be fixed.

Just food for thought.

You bring up a good point. This is all hypothetical, but let’s say the blog guy who came here and defended erasing one STFU post, and claiming here without any proof it wasn’t made by the same person, he could just as easily erase all of the other posts from both sides. Same with all other independent blogs. A truce of sorts. It happened before (I believe) as I recall when the physical threat about knocking teeth out or something like that was made on comments by one domainer against another.

I would bet that if she proves this was hacked to NS without legal intervention and to current registrant and he voluntarily returns this, and it is resolved, I would bet even Namepros might erase all of this. End of problem and no lingering effects.

 

[Kate]

Offtopic: another LLL.com allegedly stolen - recovery through UDRP failed
Source
After the recent case of jat.com this an example of how difficult it can be to recover a stolen domain. UDRP can work sometimes if the case is documented well enough, and the respondent does not fight.
There are legal options available, but I would expect Booth to defend his case. If I buy an asset in good faith I would defend my case too and let justice decide.

Maybe I missed a few posts, but I am surprised that Rebecca doesn't seem to have a lawyer yet. I would think that somebody who has had a long career in real estate should have a pile of business cards on the desk to choose from (hint: pick a lawyer who has experience with domain names). I understand her reluctance but quite frankly I think she could do with some assistance here. This is overwhelming for any normal person.
You clearly can see who has a lawyer and who hasn't. Those who have a lawyer stay mum or weigh each word carefully and they certainly don't post Ripoff reports making broad allegations. Who wins ? Usually not the party without a lawyer on their side.

PS: I think for the most part NP members are giving terrific advice as long as it's not their money and they are not in the same unfortunate situation

 

[xynames]

This thread is evidence that could be admissible in court as far as statements made by either party (plaintiff and defendant), assuming the foundation is laid that the statements were in fact made by the parties.

 

[Silentptnr]

James stated that he..and his lawyers.. attempted to contact Rebecca to discuss a possible solution when she first surfaced. Unfortunately rather than taking advantage of an open line of communication, she labeled it harrassment. Certainly was her perogative, but I think that I might have at least kept the line open for exploring possible solutions. I think that opportunity may be gone.

 

[Rich]

I'm scared at the thought of this being a plot with a colleague gone rogue, or dare I say, seller's remorse. As much as I don't like NS, a three month investigation (according to Booth) would yeild mucho info about ip addresses and pushes..why would they give the domain back if they didn't see something wrong? An escrow receipt and email by lawyer cover it? Don't mean to stir the pot, you couldn't write this. May the truth prevail

 

[Chris Hydrick]

Unfortunately rather than taking advantage of an open line of communication, she labeled it harrassment. Certainly was her perogative, but I think that I might have at least kept the line open for exploring possible solutions.

I can't speak for Rebecca regarding this, but I have to wonder if she labeled it as harassment, then I can't imagine the open line of communication was very friendly.

I guess that means James Booth has no intention of working with Rebecca to find the alleged thief / hacker.