Problem solved

[Web Trader]

I've been in the game over 20 years now and am not some newbie. I've had my share of bumps and scrapes, and this is by far the worst ever - even worse than infamous "RegisterFly" for those who are even old enough to have lived through that.

On Friday I went through all the normal motions to buy a domain registered at Domain.com and pay the BIN in full via verified PayPal I've been using for years and years, and years. The price was in the $x,xxx's. The domain was also listed with the same BIN at SnapNames, Afternic, and is listed at Sedo. However, the path of least resistance appeared to be just buying it directly at Domain.com itself, where you could (purportedly) do so at the BIN there. So I did. Or so I thought. (No, I will certainly not be saying what the name is.)

Instead of accepting my payment, instead I got an email saying this nonsense:

"It looks like something was amiss with your payment information. We are currently manually reviewing your transaction and we will email you shortly regarding your recent payment for your [redacted] account.

No need to contact us; We will be in contact within 24 hours regarding the next steps."

Needless to say, they most certainly did not contact me. But I tried to contact them through most of the weekend, using their inconvenient and customer-unfriendly chat feature. And all I got was nowhere, they wouldn't even tell me what the *alleged* "something amiss" was to even address it, until finally today one of them told me something ridiculous about IP addresses not matching billing address and such, as if that's even a thing when people do business all over the world, use VPN, have businesses in different locations, and the whole reason why PayPal and credit cards even exist is in large part to enable people to complete transactions no matter where they are, etc. How absurd. No domain industry company has ever done anything so ridiculous in all my 20 plus years, because it makes no sense.

I was not even able to just buy it as any NORMAL transaction would occur on Afternic or SnapNames just to get it done, and the Sedo listing is only make-offer with an asking price, not a BIN option. Domain.com apparently disabled all those other BIN options after my good faith effort to purchase and pay. Ironically, I had originally stated my concern that someone else could buy it while they were doing their "review" for which they originally refused to even tell me what the issue was, during the first chat session.

I had originally almost just bought it as any normal transaction through one of the listings, but I had thought surely it would be good to just buy directly at Domain.com, and I figured it would be nice to try them for the first time too. And was I ever wrong. Absolutely appalling.

If they don't do the right thing and honor the sale and my good faith effort to pay in full I definitely intend to pursue every possible remedy. This has been the worst and most appalling episode regarding such matters of my entire online business life since 2001, and I'm not exactly any newbie or without past bad experiences with dirty tricks and corrupt people and practices in this industry.

 

[LoveCatchyDomains]

Thanks for sharing what appears to be a very frustrating and surprising experience. My hope is that you do get this sorted out, and are ultimately be able to get the domain that you want or find a different one that makes you equally happy.

As a simple suggestion, is Domain.com is willing to simply cancel the transaction without penalty? If you check first with customer support with one of the other marketplaces, and know that if they would be able to handle it, maybe that's the way to go.

It sounds like one of those other venues is being blocked by Domain.com right now. But perhaps by reaching out to one of the other marketplaces directly and confirming your payment information, they'd be delighted to handle the sale?

Note that I've had no experience whatsoever with Domain.com. Perhaps they are required to go through some regulatory hurdles. The ip address, for example, is an issue with certain countries that may be banned for financial transactions currently due to current restrictions. I don't know. But hopefully it will all be sorted out soon.

Good luck, and I hope it all works out for the best for you!

 

[tonyk2000]

Most likely:
1. Domain is/was regged via domain.com (snapnames catch maybe).
2. Owner listed it on afternic with BIN.
3. Owner listed in on sedo with makeoffer.

So, domain.com displayed the listing from afternic feed. The transaction was started, and the domain status was instantly changed to pendingsale on afternic network. It therefore disappeared from all other afternic partners.

Since domain.com is Endurance-owned business, it should be avoided (like any other Endurance businesses). They acquire good companies (mostly hosting) and downgrade them. Moreover, there is no advantage in purchasing afternic-listed domain via domain.com ... And, it is not obvious that their system will handle this particular transfer correctly (they will receive authcode from afternic, but they should not use it, as they should push the domain inside instead).

Should domain.com "deny" the payment, they will then refund $$$ paid and the domain will be back forsale on afternic. Purchasing it via any reputable afternic partner (dynadot, porkbun, ...) should work then.

Edited: domain.com and their sister companies are all hosting in the 1st place. So it is not surprising that they double check or require a lot of verifications from new customers.

 

[Web Trader]

Hi, thanks for your reply. I'll reply to you in parts below.

or find a different one that makes you equally happy.

No, this particular domain is not replaceable with any other .com, i.e. in terms of what it is and specifically refers to. It's a good .com, was available for the BIN for quite some time, and I was finally willing to pull the trigger on it last Friday, expecting a perfectly normal domain purchase.

As a simple suggestion, is Domain.com is willing to simply cancel the transaction without penalty? If you check first with customer support with one of the other marketplaces, and know that if they would be able to handle it, maybe that's the way to go.

No, Domain.com appears to be engaging in simply actual fraud, in my well and long experienced opinion. They have not expressed "willingness" to do anything at all, and if it weren't for me following up in their extremely obnoxious chat feature multiple times from Friday till now (except Sunday), they apparently would have just pretended nothing happened and not communicated with me at all. It's not that they ripped off my money after payment, it's that they have blocked and refused my normal payment with the normal method and means people use all the time for such purchases. I certainly do not want any transaction to be cancelled and am only interested in obtaining the domain for the agreed upon BIN price.

Regarding the other marketplaces, it would seem that after Domain.com blocked and refused the completion of my PayPal payment, they themselves then rushed to cancel and disable all the other means of buying the domain for the BIN at Afternic and SnapNames. Unless by some "magical" coincidence Afternic and SnapName spontaneously decided to do that themselves out of the blue. The domain is still listed at Sedo, but not in the same way, i.e. not a BIN sale that one could just complete.

It sounds like one of those other venues is being blocked by Domain.com right now. But perhaps by reaching out to one of the other marketplaces directly and confirming your payment information, they'd be delighted to handle the sale?

Yes, it seems only Domain.com could have done that, with two. But once they do that, the domain is no longer for sale there, i.e. at Afternic or SnapNames, and therefore there is nothing either of them can do on their own.

Note that I've had no experience whatsoever with Domain.com. Perhaps they are required to go through some regulatory hurdles. The ip address, for example, is an issue with certain countries that may be banned for certain financial transactions currently. I don't know. But hopefully it will all be sorted out soon.

In the case of Domain.com, none of that would apply. They are a US company, and if you do a little search you'll see they are part of the huge network and conglomerate people are well familiar with. I was also simply using a US IP as well to begin with. What I was told about the IP makes no sense at all, and is not the least bit credible. Instead it has all the earmarks of total ineptitude and being 100% out of touch with standard business and industry norms and practices at best, and a lie, pretext and fraud at worst.

Good luck, and I hope it all works out for the best for you!

Thanks. I've been around the block many times. I also have some particularly notable background and experience myself. With my considerable background and experience, this simply has all the stench of standard garden variety corruption, wrongdoing and evil. I could speculate as to why, and it would be nothing new, the same motive that governs every other dirty trick and instance of shoddiness, shakiness, shadiness and evil we've ever seen and still see in the industry.

 

[Web Trader]

Most likely:
1. Domain is/was regged via domain.com (snapnames catch maybe).
2. Owner listed it on afternic with BIN.
3. Owner listed in on sedo with makeoffer.

So, domain.com displayed the listing from afternic feed. The transaction was started, and the domain status was instantly changed to pendingsale on afternic network. It therefore disappeared from all other afternic partners.

Since domain.com is Endurance-owned business, it should be avoided (like any other Endurance businesses). They acquire good companies (mostly hosting) and downgrade them. Moreover, there is no advantage in purchasing afternic-listed domain via domain.com ... And, it is not obvious that their system will handle this particular transfer correctly (they will receive authcode from afternic, but they should not use it, as they should push the domain inside instead).

Should domain.com "deny" the payment, they will then refund $$$ paid and the domain will be back forsale on afternic. Purchasing it via any reputable afternic partner (dynadot, porkbun, ...) should work then.

Edited: domain.com and their sister companies are all hosting in the 1st place. So it is not surprising that they double check or require a lot of verifications from new customers.

Thanks. Yes, if I could do it over again, I would have just bought it on SnapNames or Afternic - and I'm quite confident it would have been like every other domain purchase I've been doing without any such "incident" for years and years and years. What you said about being hosting businesses at the end there also makes perfect sense, and that is the impression I got too. In this regard, operating under a name like "Domain.com" actually appears to be one of the most ludicrous and misleading realities of the matter ever. They absolutely do not and did not appear to even know what they are doing for a domain company, and they don't even appear to know what they are doing for a hosting company either. And yes, I know what you mean about "Endurance." I used HostGator for many years myself, but when "Endurance" took over HostGator went from being a "golden age" of hosting in which I was ready to spend the rest of my life with them almost like a marriage, to an absolute horrific nightmare I eventually left as eagerly and completely as possible.

 

[tonyk2000]

bought it on SnapNames

you'll receive it on NetSol then...

 

[BaileyUK]

they themselves then rushed to cancel and disable all the other means of buying the domain for the BIN at Afternic and SnapNames. Unless by some "magical" coincidence Afternic and SnapName spontaneously decided to do that themselves out of the blue

Well that sounds to me like they have accepted your 'Pending purchase' and that now shows on all the affiliate sites. ie Domain no longer available - though some may have not been updated. I wouldn't be to quick to assume some sort of skullduggery.

New banking codes and security measures are making it difficult to make online purchases through businesses that have no history of transactions with yourself (new client) .I'd be interested to know what the transaction amount was for, as even supermarkets now require verification codes, if you've not shopped there before.

It could be that when in- doubt the transaction may be dropped by the payment processor, I do think you'll find this where your problem lies and not with the selling agents. I would contact Paypal and/or your card company (If one used) as you first call, they should be able to clear things up imo.

I do agree though the payment companies are notorious for not informing us of payment-holds. Unfortunately the business handling the transaction (selling agent) is usually equally in the dark. So no updates from them either.

Sometimes you can PARTIALLY test the water by trying to go part way through a buying procedure at one of those sites that still have it listed at a fixed price. Availability is usually their first Automatic process, If you get that OOPS something went wrong message, then I think you can be sure your original purchase is still processing. Obviously if NO site has the fixed price then it's back to Paypal as you only way forward - or lots of Patience

 

[Web Trader]

Update: everything is fine now. A senior account exec with BuyDomains.com, the real registrant of the domain, responded to me and BD took care of it including multiple staff. First time dealing with BD all these years and it was exactly as you would want and imagine - cool, professional, amicable, streamlined, they really know what they're doing and how things work, a smooth well-oiled machine. I also received a welcome discount re how we completed things after having been ready to pay bin otherwise.

 

[LoveCatchyDomains]

Update: everything is fine now. A senior account exec with BuyDomains.com, the real registrant of the domain, responded to me and BD took care of it including multiple staff. First time dealing with BD all these years and it was exactly as you would want and imagine - cool, professional, amicable, streamlined, they really know what they're doing and how things work, a smooth well-oiled machine. I also received a welcome discount re how we completed things after having been ready to pay bin otherwise.

I'm glad to hear that the issue is resolved.

Do you understand what exactly was the issue with the payment method ip address, or was that basically irrelevant?

In any case, it's great that you now have the domain that you wanted, and overcame the obstacles to getting it.
Congrats!

 

[Web Trader]

I'm glad to hear that the issue is resolved.

Do you understand what exactly was the issue with the payment method ip address, or was that basically irrelevant?

In any case, it's great that you now have the domain that you wanted, and overcame the obstacles to getting it.
Congrats!

Thanks. Yes not relevant or discussed. Just a well done normal deal and transaction as you would expect with such a long standing firm.

 

[Web Trader]

Looks like I spoke to soon.

1. Domain bought and paid for in full with the actual owner BuyDomains.com yesterday. Domain no longer even under Domain.com's possession or management as of yesterday, which they would know. Everything seemed fine.

2. Today, after never having received any further communication or resolution from them, Domain.com nonetheless charged the original BIN+ to my PayPal account - for a domain they no longer even have or can sell on behalf of the owner anymore.

 

[LoveCatchyDomains]

Looks like I spoke to soon.

1. Domain bought and paid for in full with the actual owner BuyDomains.com yesterday. Domain no longer even under Domain.com's possession or management as of yesterday, which they would know. Everything seemed fine.

2. Today, after never having received any further communication or resolution from them, Domain.com nonetheless charged the original BIN+ to my PayPal account - for a domain they no longer even have or can sell on behalf of the owner anymore.

Sounds confusing, indeed.
Hopefully BuyDomains.com can help sort it out? Perhaps it's best at this point to work with customer support with BuyDomains.com. It sounds like you had great confidence in them, so perhaps they will be able to live up to that expectation.

 

[tonyk2000]

Domain.com nonetheless charged the original BIN+ to my PayPal account

It means that they also requested domain delivery from Afternic. So, did BuyDomains cancel the pendingsale afternic transaction, and was the process successful? You may confirm this with BuyDomains to expedite the refund.
From Afternic point of view, the sellers in this transaction (BuyDomains) no longer owns the domain, and Afternic should inform domain.com accordingly. With this information, domain.com is supposed to issue a refund. Both things are routine on afternic as a matter of fact.
Buydomains is also owned by Endurance now ( https://www.crunchbase.com/acquisition/endurance-intl-group-holdings-acquires-buy-domains--26f26c33 ) so they may (or may not) be able to help you to better escalate the issue on domain.com end.

 

[Web Trader]

Sounds confusing, indeed.
Hopefully BuyDomains.com can help sort it out? Perhaps it's best at this point to work with customer support with BuyDomains.com. It sounds like you had great confidence in them, so perhaps they will be able to live up to that expectation.

There's actually no confusion at all and the matter is completely simple and straightforward now. Either Domain.com does the right thing or it is a flagrant case of fraud and theft now. At least two people with BuyDomains.com are helping and intervening. BuyDomains is the real deal and know what they are doing, as I expressed above. Domain.com is exponentially unlike anything I have ever encountered in over 20 years of being involved with online commerce, and I definitely have my share of horror stories. But my previous horror stories from the past few decades, some of which were definitely bad, are now like small rocks beside a mountain inhabited by vipers in comparison.

 

[Web Trader]

It means that they also requested domain delivery from Afternic. So, did BuyDomains cancel the pendingsale afternic transaction, and was the process successful? You may confirm this with BuyDomains to expedite the refund.
From Afternic point of view, the sellers in this transaction (BuyDomains) no longer owns the domain, and Afternic should inform domain.com accordingly. With this information, domain.com is supposed to issue a refund. Both things are routine on afternic as a matter of fact.
Buydomains is also owned by Endurance now ( https://www.crunchbase.com/acquisition/endurance-intl-group-holdings-acquires-buy-domains--26f26c33 ) so they may (or may not) be able to help you to better escalate the issue on domain.com end.

Hi Tony. I'm actually wondering if you are the super domain investor/domainer dentist Tony I've seen in the blogs over the years. Thanks for your comment.

I can clarify this for you because it's actually a completely simple matter now. BuyDomains.com was the actual owner of the domain, having bought it themselves, though it was registered at Domain.com. BuyDomains had it listed for sale, with Afternic, SnapNames, Sedo, and Domain.com that I knew of, unless it was also listed somewhere else. Only Afternic, SnapNames, and Domain.com had a BIN you could use. Sedo had an asking price which matched the BIN at the other places. Since it was registered at Domain.com and had a BIN there, it seemed that surely that was the path of least resistance, and I figured it might be nice to try having an account at Domain.com for the first time after buying the domain. Before I completed the steps to buy it for the BIN at Domain.com, it was extremely strange that there was no way to register and open an account first that I could find, which in hindsight is just another extremely abnormal red flag, but I figured once the domain was bought and paid for they would give you one.

Then I completed the steps to buy it including to pay by PayPal, but Domain.com did not process the PayPal payment, and then I got the strange email about something appearing to be "amiss" with my payment information. Normally I'm cognizant of this issue, but it did not occur to me that, regardless, the act of trying to pay had created one of those active billing agreements in PayPal that you can cancel when you want, which unfortunately may be what enabled Domain.com to do what it did yesterday.

Long story short, there was no way to communicate with Domain.com except through their extremely inconvenient and horrific chat feature. That includes despite having a phone number and email on the site, but which are total dead ends for communication (appalling). Don't get me wrong, I love a good chat feature, but theirs is nothing but a nightmare and worse.

I began to branch out in terms of addressing this matter, and wound up sending a communication to BuyDomains.com about it, since the domain was forwarding to a BuyDomains.com page to begin with too. A senior account executive at BuyDomains.com actually contacted me, frankly to my surprise, explained to me about how BuyDomains.com was the real owner of the domain and in charge of the various sale listings, etc. We had a brief email discussion, I received a welcome discount from the normal full price, and BuyDomains was perfectly happy to both provide the auth and do an expedited release immediately upon payment. Ergo, after paying for the domain in full by Visa card to BuyDomains.com itself, the domain was immediately transferred to my company at the new registrar.

During all this time, Domain.com had never even responded that I'm aware of or received to express any intention or resolution in response to all my repeated previous efforts with them. Above all, by the time they took advantage of the existence of an active PayPal billing agreement in my PayPal account and made a big $x,xxx's charge to it yesterday, 4/12/23, the domain had already been bought and paid for with BuyDomains.com and totally removed from Domain.com's possession on 4/11/23. Domain.com literally charged my business PayPal account yesterday for something they no longer even had in their possession or under their management to sell.

 

[tonyk2000]

dentist Tony I've seen in the blog

I'm definitely not!

Domain.com literally charged my business PayPal account

While they are discorganized, their business is not fraud. It is possible that their system will instantly issue a refund as soon as they find out that the domain cannot be delivered. I also remember that the infamous endurance chat is able to actually open a trackable ticket and escalate it to "skilled engineers" or something, at least this happened in my last case (different problem: unmanageable snapnames catch). Maybe this would help!

 

[Web Trader]

I'm definitely not!

While they are discorganized, their business is not fraud. It is possible that their system will instantly issue a refund as soon as they find out that the domain cannot be delivered. I also remember that the infamous endurance chat is able to actually open a trackable ticket and escalate it to "skilled engineers" or something, at least this happened in my last case (different problem: unmanageable snapnames catch). Maybe this would help!

Thanks, but that's one of the reasons why their chat feature was so absolutely horrific in every way. There was nothing like that, and it was difficult enough even conversing. During one chat session I was finally able to get one of the reps to give me an email to contact someone, but I have no idea who or what kind of person it was whose email I was given, and never received any reply when I used it. Would not surprise me one bit if it was just a red herring and I realized that's all it might be at the time. As for not being fraud, doing the right thing and reversing the "erroneous" charge is what is required, otherwise it will be nothing but clear fraud and theft. As it is, the initial "problem" already looked like a type of fraud to begin with since there was a contract formed and I was being prevented from paying according to proper and established industry norms and practices, and without any reasonable communication. Like I said, I've been doing this a real long time now, been around the block many times.

 

[karmaco]

Why did you leave a blanket charging agreement in your PP before you went ahead and proceeded to buy elsewhere?

I am very careful about who gets those even for a week. Sneaky on their part. I am sure a refund will be issued since they can’t deliver.

 

[Web Trader]

Why did you leave a blanket charging agreement in your PP before you went ahead and proceeded to buy elsewhere?

I am very careful about who gets those even for a week. Sneaky on their part. I am sure a refund will be issued since they can’t deliver.

Yes, sneaky is a good word for it. I've seen and experienced a lot, but to my knowledge I had never seen or experienced anything like that before where you go through all the normal steps to pay for something by PayPal, but then nothing happens or gets processed, and you get an email later saying "blah, blah, blah." I'm normally also very on top of that issue in PayPal, but it didn't occur to me that was there this time, and I never thought in a million years this particular company would do something like this either. None of us ever bats 1,000, but many of us may still bat 999 nonetheless. PS: I'm also frankly not aware if it's 100% certain it would have made a difference too. For example, even if I had found and deactivated the billing agreement feature, would they still have had a one-time authorization held in check to do such an "erroneous" charge later anyway? I suspect the answer is no, but am not sure right now and for all I know maybe not.

 

[Web Trader]

PS: and an email you can't even reply to, to boot. Insane.

but then nothing happens or gets processed, and you get an email later saying "blah, blah, blah."

 

[LoveCatchyDomains]

Perhaps the key here is to stay calm, and see if ultimately you can get the billing sorted out along with getting your precious domain.

Unless this was a fake listing, or all of a sudden a much higher bid came in, why wouldn't the company not want this sale completed. After all, the commission would likely be decent for them.

So, again, hopefully it will be able to be sorted out promptly in your favor.

 

[Web Trader]

Perhaps the key here is to stay calm, and see if ultimately you can get the billing sorted out along with getting your precious domain.

Unless this was a fake listing, or all of a sudden a much higher bid came in, why wouldn't the company not want this sale completed. After all, the commission would likely be decent for them.

So, again, hopefully it will be able to be sorted out promptly in your favor.

LoveCatchy you have apparently lost track. The domain was sold by BuyDomains.com itself, the owner and lister then, and the transfer out from Domain.com, the previous registrar, was already completed by BuyDomains.com itself, on Tuesday 4/11/23. I bought it, i.e. my company, paid BuyDomains.com in full another way besides PayPal (noticed the payment also fully cleared today), and it was transferred to my company's account with a new registrar. The original Domain.com sales listing itself and every other venue's listing were always legitimate, listed by BuyDomains.com, the owner and seller of the domain. What took place yesterday, Wednesday 4/12/23, was that Domain.com then charged my PayPal account $x,xxx's for a domain that was: 1. no longer in their possession or under their management; 2. which they no longer had any ability or right to sell on behalf of BuyDomains.com or anyone; 3. was already registered to a new entity; 4. and which had already been bought and fully paid for and transferred away from them the very day before on 4/11/23. You would think they also knew full well they no longer had the domain to sell when they did this yesterday too. Domain.com should not have done what they did yesterday, and a timely refund of the false/erroneous charge is needed. It's now the same as if Domain.com charged my PayPal account $x,xxx's for a box of air instead of what the box was supposed to contain just because they could. So let's say, for example, the domain cost $10,000 full price, BIN. What has just occurred is the equivalent of having already paid BuyDomains.com the BIN of $10k (minus a discount given as mentioned above), BuyDomains.com itself handling the transfer, but then Domain.com erroneously (or worse) charging my business another $10k the very next day for a box of air that was never agreed to. A box of air that can't even be delivered to any buyer either no less.

 

[LoveCatchyDomains]

Sounds pretty simple overall.
The marketplace was Buydomains.com. You paid them with a non-Paypal method. BuyDomains.com had the registrar, Domain.com, transfer the domain.
You were then charged also by Domain.com through your Paypal account.

So basically is sounds like Domain.com needs to refund your Paypal charge, before they drive you AND the rest of us crazy!

I truly hope that Domain.com provides the refund due to you very quickly.

 

[Web Trader]

Sounds pretty simple overall.
The marketplace was Buydomains.com. You paid them with a non-Paypal method. BuyDomains.com had the registrar, Domain.com, transfer the domain.
You were then charged also by Domain.com through your Paypal account.

So basically is sounds like Domain.com needs to refund your Paypal charge, before they drive you AND the rest of us crazy!

Even that's being generous, and it's even simpler than that. The transfer was handled entirely by BuyDomains.com too. One of their senior operations specialists gave me the auth after I paid, I used the auth, and the specialist expedited the transfer release. A well done matter by everyone involved with BuyDomains.com as mentioned above. And yes, Domain.com needs to refund or cancel that PayPal charge.

 

[Web Trader]

Does this make any sense at all to anyone?

BuyDomains.com has intervened with Domain.com to get them to refund the bad charge to my PayPal account, which unfortunately also cleared with my bank today, so the funds are definitely gone for now.

I had also filed a PayPal dispute.

The "problem" now is that apparently BuyDomains.com has been told something that seems like there's no way it could possibly be true or make any sense at all:

I attempted to proceed with the request with refunding the items from Domain.com. However, we've returned with an error that there's currently an open dispute for the charge with PayPal. The client would need to resolve or cancel the dispute with PayPal before we're able to refund the transaction.

Has anyone ever heard of such a thing? Does it make any sense at all, that PayPal does not allow the very thing a disputing party is requesting unless the dispute is dropped or cancelled? Is that even the tiniest bit credible or plausible? I've done one or more PayPal disputes before, and have never heard of such a thing, nor does it appear to make even the slightest bit of sense, at all.

Is not BuyDomains.com itself even being lied to by someone at Domain.com, just to get me to cancel the PayPal dispute?

If anyone can prove otherwise - i.e. that it makes any sense at all and is true that PayPal will not even allow a "seller" to refund a charge for which a refund is being sought unless the disputing party drops and cancels the dispute - please show me and let me know.