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Pheenix goes to public auctions on multiple backorders

Discussion in 'Domain Industry News' started by stub, Sep 7, 2015.

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  1. stub

    stub Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I just received this in the mail,

    I predicted on NP's that other backorder companies would change their model. Of course I was thinking of SnapNames/Namjet. So Pheenix were the first one to do it. Makes sense, imho.
     
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  2. Hypersot

    Hypersot Active Member VIP

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    Just received the email... sad news

    I felt strange that the mail ended in 'thanks for being a great customer, we'll have more exciting news coming' ... was that change supposed to be a good thing?
     
  3. Jasonn

    Jasonn Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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  4. stub

    stub Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    It makes sense to me because they will maximize their revenues, minus the people who don't like it and take their business elsewhere. I'll probably use them more now.
     
  5. Maxwell

    Maxwell Active Member VIP

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    My thoughts exactly. "exciting news" cmon...
     
  6. NamesMax

    NamesMax Business Member Business Account VIP

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    Actually Dynadot does public auctions, as well for the few that they catch.
     
  7. stub

    stub Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    "exciting" is probably not the term I would use. But it's certainly "significant" news.
     
  8. Jasonn

    Jasonn Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    It benefits anyone who doesn't do their own research and rides on the backs of those who do. For anyone else it's a losing situation.
     
  9. Maxwell

    Maxwell Active Member VIP

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    It's funny how when domain companies have purely bad news they always throw in some stupid/very minor good news things that will probably have little to no effect on you. They just can't give it to us straight... to us "great" customers.
     
  10. tonyk2000

    tonyk2000 Business Member Business Account ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Interesting. Pheenix new model is not exactly the same as the one DropCatch runs due to:

    - DropCatch is able to maintain all their registrars ALSO because they catch a lot for dropcatch owners (hugedomains portfolio). Since pheenix does not seem to catch any noticeable amount of com/net for themselves , it would be interesting to see where they will be in 6-12 months with a new model

    - I do not see _ a lot_ of activity on DropCatch recently. For example, after todays drop they auction JUST THE FOLLOWING TEN DOMAINS:

    amateur fetish clips com
    appraisal associates com
    bet bc com
    medic aid law com
    ocsr net
    qiacun com
    samsung computer com
    titan deck com
    tls me com
    wns 1314 com

    It probably indicates that serious domainers simply prefer to avoid dropcatch, exactly because of open auctions model. The set of domains auctioned also prompts that this may be true (TM domains for example). It however appears that DropCatch is affected, at least occasionally like in special days around recent 358.com drop, by various competitors who MAY be abusing the system by trying to register dropping domains through "regular" registrar-registry connections pool, instead of using exclusively special "dropcatching" connections pool which is a requirement of verisign registry, and are having unfair advantage as the result. But it is of course temporary, as such activity is (or at least should be) stopped by Verisign earlier or later. Returning to Pheenix, all this means that what they did in a recent announcement - may or may not be beneficial for them in a long run. Only time will tell.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2015
  11. infosec3

    infosec3 Business Member Business Account VIP

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    I prefer the previous model. But I guess my or our preference is irrelevant if they think their current model is not profitable enough. In my opinion DropCatch poisoned the well. Pheenix sees how many sales (high volume sales) DropCatch is getting and they want to follow that example.

    The big difference, of course, is that DropCatch catches nearly every good name these days... Too bad for us.
     
  12. xull

    xull Established Member

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    Greedisgood
     
  13. James Rayers

    James Rayers Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Definitely a reminder that as domainers we need to have multiple acquisition channels. Drop auction prices could well increase to the point where flipping is no longer viable. Every auctioned domain will need a development plan to make a profit.
     
  14. wwwweb

    wwwweb Top Member VIP

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    You are simply just going to pay more to acquire such domains, some newbie is going to throw their bids in to feel like they got some skin in the game, raise your prices, because your acquisition costs are going up.
     
  15. main

    main Active Member VIP

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    While it may benefit piggy-backers, it will benefit the deep pockets the most. I have a great deal of respect for the main players in the drop game, guys like arirangcnt, dribble, exdomain, etc. My groove has been finding the domains they couldn't find and winning auctions they weren't in. These guys are definitely NOT piggy-backers. They do their research, but they definitely will gain the most on the investing side.

    Look for about 10 players or less to pick up more than 75% of the domains that have value of each drop.

    Between DropCatch and Pheenix, now about half dropped domains of value will go to public auction. Just have to be prepared to pony up for the domains your really like and find other avenues to acquire domains.

    You have to constantly evolve to be successful in this business.
     
  16. stub

    stub Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    @tonyk2000 - I've been saying for some time the quality of the domains DropCatch catch is quite poor, indicating that the big domainers appear to be staying away. But this is a fools paradise because the more big dropcatchers which don't use DropCatch leaves any domain open to be caught by DropCatch for HugeDomains. So DropCatch are picking up all the good domains anyway, for HugeDomains (our competition), because DropCatch catch almost any good domain, at will.

    @main - I think your 50% is way off. Because of what tony and I are saying. there are only a few crap domains going up for auction on DropCatch, and Pheenix, lets face it, are only a bit-player in this drop-catch game. I would guess it's less than 5%, at best.

    If I were a savvy domainer with money, at this point, I'd use DropCatch because that automatically excludes our biggest competitor, HugeDomains from participating in the catch. It however, is obviously going to cost you more than a blind auction between backorderers. But at least you get a desirable product to sell. Rather than nothing.

    I also wonder why people say they are going to leave Pheenix, because they don't like to bid in open auctions. It's cutting off their nose to spite their face. Just like what is now happening at DropCatch. They are going to catch less and less domains, as more and more dropcatchers adopt this model. I think the days of being secretive with their research and catching domains, are basically over. They should wake-up, and smell the roses. Just IMHO :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2015
  17. tonyk2000

    tonyk2000 Business Member Business Account ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Paradoxical, but I think it is exactly what DropCatch would not want to happen as this will effectively eliminate them (what we have/see now) in a long run. Indeed, their whole model is based on co-existence of public catching for us and private catching for hugedomains. It is very, very expensive to maintain 500+ registrars. Icann per-registrar fees and registrar insurance fees alone are not small at all. No public service (snap, nj etc) so far found it profitable to set 500+ own registrars. No private domainer (lets say buydomains or Reberry before going public) so far found it profitable to set 500+ registrars for their internal needs. Assuming that current Dropcatch model is profitable (we still do not know as one needs to see their books to find out, maybe they have astronomical debt or astronomical profit, who knows...) - removing either public part OR hugedomains part from it means that they may not survive in sense that they'll close 50%-90% of their registrars. What pheenix is trying to do now is to duplicate only a half of dropcatch.com model, that is why I think they are risking... and risking a lot.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2015
  18. stub

    stub Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I think what is happening between DropCatch, Domainers, and HugeDomains, is really really dumb, imho. Of course, prices could rise significantly, but that will still better than losing the domain to HugeDomains, and having nothing to sell. Better to use DropCatch and exclude HugeDomains from the acquisition process.
     
  19. Asfas1000

    Asfas1000 Active Member VIP

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    You mean that hg is not allowed to participate in a Dropcatch auction if they want ?
     
  20. FPForum

    FPForum Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    They're owned by the same people. My guess is, if the name is getting bids in the DC auction then he probably won't participate just to list it at HD*. There is no need to since he already has bidders wanting to buy it. Not positive on that, but they are definitely owned by the same person, Andrew Reberry.

    Personally, I agree that it was only a matter of time before this happened. I do believe the company will see a profit increase from it. I guess the big question now is, how long before NameJet and SnapNames start doing the same thing? Whenever that happens some domainers will have an easy schedule (Although, I'm not sure it's the best one)..wait for the drops, then jump to each website and see what auctions you can get into, lol.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2015
  21. Asfas1000

    Asfas1000 Active Member VIP

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    Ok , as you say it's a guess, and since several auctions end up to end user prices , it is reasonable to assume that they won't get involved .

    How about domains with a single bid that they too want ?
     
  22. stub

    stub Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Correct. If a backorder is placed at DropCatch, HugeDomains are not allowed to participate in the auction, according to Andrew Reberry.
     
  23. Jasonn

    Jasonn Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    the fact is *someone* has to do it or else there would be no auctions for people to bid on. personally i am going to give more of my business to snapnames.
     
  24. hookbox

    hookbox Active Member VIP

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    Yesterday Dropcatch caught a name I wanted. I didn't want to use their service to get the domain because I didn't want to pay a bunch of money for it when other domainers jumped into the auction and drove the price up. The name is now listed at HugeDomains for $2,395. In hindsight I should have just backordered the domain and fought it out with whoever else jumped in the auction because I know it would not have gone up to $2,395.

    The only way you can really get the name you want is to use Dropcatch. It sucks but it's our only option now. Pheenix made a bad move because they can't compete with the Dropcatch model. They may be cheaper but in no way are they as successful in obtaining names. I believe Pheenix will have to go back to the old model soon to stay in business. With a choice between two identical services why would you use Pheenix.
     
  25. Jasonn

    Jasonn Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    that is the risk with using dropcatch. had you backordered it, you would of been the only backorder and got it for 59 bucks but if just one other person in the world backorders it, suddenly its open game for anyone to come in and jack the price up. they can be great if you're the only backorder but you never know if you are going to be or not. i've used dropcatch in the past and i've caught a few names with them but every time one goes to auction, i just forget about it because its always goes beyond what i am willing to spend/what its worth.
     

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