domains Pheenix goes to public auctions on multiple backorders

[Name Trader]

I just received this in the mail,

3. Public Auctions coming September 19th.

All domains that have multiple backorders on it will now be available for Public Bidding for any backorders being released on or after 2015-09-19.

As a precondition, if someone did not have a backorder on the domain name prior to it going to auction, their minimum bid is at least $59 in order to participate in the auction.

I predicted on NP's that other backorder companies would change their model. Of course I was thinking of SnapNames/Namjet. So Pheenix were the first one to do it. Makes sense, imho.

 

[Hypersot]

Just received the email... sad news

I felt strange that the mail ended in 'thanks for being a great customer, we'll have more exciting news coming' ... was that change supposed to be a good thing?

 

[DomainVP]

Yesterday Dropcatch caught a name I wanted. I didn't want to use their service to get the domain because I didn't want to pay a bunch of money for it when other domainers jumped into the auction and drove the price up. The name is now listed at HugeDomains for $2,395. In hindsight I should have just backordered the domain and fought it out with whoever else jumped in the auction because I know it would not have gone up to $2,395.

Yeah, and the real kick in the groin is that HugeDomains is paying pheenix prices to catch these names with DorpCatch by using the Discount Club Beta since they are a premium customer. So if there was no backorder, and HugeDomains picks it up, they snatched it for under $15, whereas everyone else has to place a $59/$69 dollar backorder. They have been snatching low price high resale value names i've had my eye on for the past month using DC and paying a fraction of what most of us would have to pay.

It's a dirty dirty game out there with DC.

Drop auction prices could well increase to the point where flipping is no longer viable. Every auctioned domain will need a development plan to make a profit.

This is inevitable for domaining, and will happen within the next 6 years, maybe sooner with the awareness campaign of the gTLD program.

It's similar to the concept of market saturation. Domaining is profitable due to market inefficiency, eventually the rest of the world will catch up.

That's why it's important to start NOW. Even someone that starts today can be successful, but in a few years time that will be over.

If you really think about it, out of the 7 billion people on this planet how many serious domainers do you see that do this day-to-day; maybe 500 - 1000 - and thats a high estimate. When 'big' names drop there are only about 200 - 350 people that have placed a backorder.

Conversely, if someone dropped a 60lb palate of one-hundred dollar bills in a mall parking lot, there would be more people tearing at that payload than there were at the last high value domain drop. People know the value of money, but don't know about domains.

Most business are still clueless about domains, which means the general population has an ever lower knowledge of domains. Have you ever received a $40 offer for a domain you paid at least $400 for; most of the times it's not a negotiation strategy - it's just ignorance.

Domaining is not over saturated yet, and it won't be for at least 6 years, but every year those .COM's get more and more expensive; despite our precious gTLD program.

I predicted on NP's that other backorder companies would change their model. Of course I was thinking of SnapNames/Namjet. So Pheenix were the first one to do it. Makes sense, imho.

I agree, saw this one coming with a DC service as well - they will all do it eventually.

https://www.namepros.com/threads/will-not-use-dropcatch-com.855123/

this is the evolution of dropcatching, you better get your names where you can and hold on tight. I never thought I would find myself saying, "I wish NameJet caught that one."

It will be some time for SN and NJ, because they have access to higher quality names and they don't have to rely on the same business model as DC and PHE.

It makes sense for Pheenix, they were almost on their last leg. It's a shame, because Pheenix was pretty much giving away caught domain names, 90% of the time if you caught a name with them or got one through their 'shop' it was a heck of a deal.

 

[Name Trader]

"exciting" is probably not the term I would use. But it's certainly "significant" news.

 

[jamesau]

Definitely a reminder that as domainers we need to have multiple acquisition channels. Drop auction prices could well increase to the point where flipping is no longer viable. Every auctioned domain will need a development plan to make a profit.

 

[Jasonn]

well...bye bye pheenix.

 

[hookbox]

Because of these companies the flip market is going to change from a buy-flip to buy-hold-flip. The extra money that has to be spent at these services because of more bidders is more money that has to be recouped. The quick flip is going to be a thing of the past I believe.

 

[FPForum]

On a side note... Just a few of the LLL.co (and others) I've talked about drop caught recently..
Moo.co - User Backorder - Hexonet
ips.co - User Backorder - Hexonet
QWC.cc - User Backorder - Name.com
Rim.co - User Backorder - Hexonet
TVJ.CC - User Backorder - DynaDot
Liverpool.tv - User Backorder - Name.com

 

[main]

i do some pre-release but there is a lot of competition and deep pockets on namejet which has the best names. snapnames doesn't have near the quality in their pre-release. its mostly moniker names which are domains that have already previously attempted to be sold by other domainers before they let them expire. however these are not public auctions. they are closed auctions where you can't bid if you didn't backorder them before the deadline. godaddy does public auctions for pre-release domains and again, its hard to compete there when so many people are watching godaddy auctions and when they see bids get placed they jump on it.

The problem with the Namejet PreRelease domains is that they're not all expiring domains. It's a mix of expiring domains and regular auctions (some with reserves). Look at a domain like Institutes.com right now at PreRelease. It is registered through 2024. That is another reason that there are better quality domains at PreRelease..

As with any auction platform with individual sellers, there is shill bidding going on to pump up the prices.

You also have the domainers who let their domains expire to test the market like what happens at GoDaddy. There are lot of renewals and domains that disappear from the PreRelease.

I really wish NameJet would separate the PreRelease domains into true expiring and regular auctions which should be in their Public Auctions category. It makes it a pain when analyzing the lists for what to buy.

Namejet should have three sections: pending delete, expiring domains, and public auctions.

 

[main]

It benefits anyone who doesn't do their own research and rides on the backs of those who do. For anyone else it's a losing situation.

While it may benefit piggy-backers, it will benefit the deep pockets the most. I have a great deal of respect for the main players in the drop game, guys like arirangcnt, dribble, exdomain, etc. My groove has been finding the domains they couldn't find and winning auctions they weren't in. These guys are definitely NOT piggy-backers. They do their research, but they definitely will gain the most on the investing side.

Look for about 10 players or less to pick up more than 75% of the domains that have value of each drop.

Between DropCatch and Pheenix, now about half dropped domains of value will go to public auction. Just have to be prepared to pony up for the domains your really like and find other avenues to acquire domains.

You have to constantly evolve to be successful in this business.

 

[Name Trader]

@tonyk2000 - I've been saying for some time the quality of the domains DropCatch catch is quite poor, indicating that the big domainers appear to be staying away. But this is a fools paradise because the more big dropcatchers which don't use DropCatch leaves any domain open to be caught by DropCatch for HugeDomains. So DropCatch are picking up all the good domains anyway, for HugeDomains (our competition), because DropCatch catch almost any good domain, at will.

@main - I think your 50% is way off. Because of what tony and I are saying. there are only a few crap domains going up for auction on DropCatch, and Pheenix, lets face it, are only a bit-player in this drop-catch game. I would guess it's less than 5%, at best.

If I were a savvy domainer with money, at this point, I'd use DropCatch because that automatically excludes our biggest competitor, HugeDomains from participating in the catch. It however, is obviously going to cost you more than a blind auction between backorderers. But at least you get a desirable product to sell. Rather than nothing.

I also wonder why people say they are going to leave Pheenix, because they don't like to bid in open auctions. It's cutting off their nose to spite their face. Just like what is now happening at DropCatch. They are going to catch less and less domains, as more and more dropcatchers adopt this model. I think the days of being secretive with their research and catching domains, are basically over. They should wake-up, and smell the roses. Just IMHO

 

[FPForum]

You mean that hg is not allowed to participate in a Dropcatch auction if they want ?

They're owned by the same people. My guess is, if the name is getting bids in the DC auction then he probably won't participate just to list it at HD*. There is no need to since he already has bidders wanting to buy it. Not positive on that, but they are definitely owned by the same person, Andrew Reberry.

Personally, I agree that it was only a matter of time before this happened. I do believe the company will see a profit increase from it. I guess the big question now is, how long before NameJet and SnapNames start doing the same thing? Whenever that happens some domainers will have an easy schedule (Although, I'm not sure it's the best one)..wait for the drops, then jump to each website and see what auctions you can get into, lol.

 

[johname]

I am going to do my impression of HeyNow (hope he doesn't mind)

You back order an obscure domain you think your the only one watching.

Then before you know it there another player and the domain on public auction.

Domaining will always be getting harder. Expect that.

 

[FPForum]

@FPForum - Actually I'm often amazed the quality of the domains which go through Pre-Release Auctions and then get fought over as Pending Deletes. I blame @Jasonn, Joke But in theory all the best Pending Deletes could have been picked up as Pre-Release. There are some exceptions for those domains at registrars which don't have any agreements with Auctioneers like SnapNames/NameJet.

You can see the ones which will never make it to Pending Delete status... they all have bids on them. But you always run into the problem that current owners can see the offers and renew their domains, themselves. Dang... is nothing fair in this in this community?

Totally agree, and for those who don't already know. This is where you can download the Pre-Release lists:
http://www.namejet.com/Pages/Downloads.aspx
https://www.snapnames.com/download.jsp

 

[Jasonn]

The only auctions they currently have is for their expiring domains, Pre-Release Auctions, not for any Pending Delete auctions.

Which brings up a good point. A lot of Pending Delete Auctions were once Pre-Release Auctions. GoDaddy, SnapNames, NameJet, Dynadot. To name four off the top of my head. You should be placing your bids in the Pre-Release stage to capture these domains. Why? Because DropCatch/HugeDomains are not present in the Pre-Release Auctions. These are all Public Auctions, which may not sit right with the purists like @Jasonn, who seem to thrive on stealth.

It's the one weapon in SnapNames/NamJet armory where they are superior to DropCatch.

i do some pre-release but there is a lot of competition and deep pockets on namejet which has the best names. snapnames doesn't have near the quality in their pre-release. its mostly moniker names which are domains that have already previously attempted to be sold by other domainers before they let them expire. however these are not public auctions. they are closed auctions where you can't bid if you didn't backorder them before the deadline. godaddy does public auctions for pre-release domains and again, its hard to compete there when so many people are watching godaddy auctions and when they see bids get placed they jump on it.

 

[main]

i hope no one wants to bid on auctions or backorder on pheenix today. you can't.

Warning: Unknown: write failed: No space left on device (28) in Unknown on line 0 Warning: Unknown: Failed to write session data (files). Please verify that the current setting of session.save_path is correct (/var/lib/php/session) in Unknown on line 0

Same problem here. I wrote support an email about it before. In the past, they have extended the auction when there has been issues. I am sure they will extend today's auctions a day too. Good luck.

 

[cocaseco]

I have used Desktop Catcher for quite awhile now and I get reasonable results. The only problem is the need to have a lot of accounts, each with money on account. Takes awhile to get setup, but then its golden.

 

[campout]

the Shop page.... I feel like that's where I should go if I want to buy a Pheenix T-shirt or baseball cap

 

[discobull]

Thanks all for being such loyal customers.

Yes, you did have loyal customers. It's unfortunate that you've chosen to go the public auction route instead of being loyal to your customers in return.

 

[discobull]

we kept in mind that there was a segment of people that didn't like it so much in the beginning.

That "segment" is otherwise known as the vast majority of your customers.

If you give it a try, I think you'll find some good things about our auctions.

Ok fine. Please explain what aspect of paying more for domains you think I will like? Or is it that you think that after I lose the domain to someone that didn't do any research and didn't get their backorder in on time, that I'll enjoy knowing that the time I took to find the domain benefited someone else's business instead of mine?

 

[Jasonn]

Discobull,

We have a lot of loyal customers. And we have been getting a lot of people that like our public auctions. It's a transition that had to be made and at all times, we kept in mind that there was a segment of people that didn't like it so much in the beginning.

If you give it a try, I think you'll find some good things about our auctions.

Bob

it makes it pointless now to backorder with pheenix unless you are guaranteed to be the only backorder. When an auction goes public and up to 69 with the first public bid, i might as well of just backordered at snapnames and paid only $69 instead of biddin against someone who never even backordered the domain. the advantage pheenix had against other services was the cheaper price. with the public $69 auctions this is largely no longer the case.

 

[Asfas1000]

@gorilla_bob Please consider keeping the private auctions for domains with less than 5 bids.

 

[main]

@gorilla_bob Please consider keeping the private auctions for domains with less than 5 bids.

@Asfas1000 Thanks for the suggestion. I think currently we have a fair system in place. For the people that backorder the domain name ahead of time, they like that they have a chance to win the domain name at a very low price. And if there is an auction, anyone from the outside needs to pay almost triple your initial bid just to enter the auction.

@gorilla_bob, we all realize that Pheenix is looking to maximize their revenues by turning to the DropCatch model of public auctions for caught domains with multiple backorders. It's good for your company and perhaps it is a necessary evolution for you to compete. But maximizing your revenues equals higher prices for your customers. What people don't appreciate is Pheenix trying to spin this like it somehow it's somehow good for us. Just be honest.

As I've written before, the domainers that this new platform benefits the most are the domainers with extremely large bankrolls. The 1%ers of the domain world. What it in ensures is that the majority of the auctions will be won by a small group of domainers with big pockets. This is a fact.

@Asfas1000 has suggested an excellent solution that would alleviate frustrations of a large percentage of the average domainers. Perhaps private auctions for 5 original backorders or less may be too much to ask, but maybe 3 would be more realistic. This makes sure you still maximize your revenue on even moderately competitive domain names where you make the most of your money anyway, while at the same time keeping the domainers who spend lots of time researching for hidden gems from the drop happy.

You mention outside bidders need to pay almost triple the initial bids to enter the auction, but that just isn't a barrier at all.

 

[Name Trader]

It makes sense to me because they will maximize their revenues, minus the people who don't like it and take their business elsewhere. I'll probably use them more now.

 

[Maxwell]

Just received the email... sad news

I felt strange that the mail ended in 'thanks for being a great customer, we'll have more exciting news coming' ... was that change supposed to be a good thing?

My thoughts exactly. "exciting news" cmon...