One Year Since the buyout!

[VURG]

In 9 days it will be November 2nd. LLLL.com Countdown Since the buyout there has been a lot of fluctuations in LLLL.com values but they have steadily been renewed or picked up on the drop and hence this type of domain has been a more secure investment than others. I think that the next year will attract more risk averse investors to the LLLL.com market and hence more liquidity to this market.

I am very happy with my experiences with the LLLL.com market and being part of the NamePros. It has been very rewarding. I have had to sell a large percentage of my domains this last year but I still have Vurg.com so I am happy. I used to see Namepros as a means to make money and now I see it as a place where I have friends. Thanks to everyone who got involved with the LLLL.com countdown experience. It was fun.

 

[snoop]

There's enough people that know and have witnessed what you have been saying for months.

Be a man and bring out some examples to justify you claims, after all you state I've been saying something else for months so it shouldn't be hard.

 

[Nem0]

Percentiles are the safest way to evaluate LLLL.com performance at different times. When I was publishing my price guide, I considered the minimum what LLLL.coms sold for at the 5th percentile -- anything less than that and it starts being open for debate whether you're cherry picking sales, anything much more than that and you're carelessly overlooking the worst of the worst.

It's not too hard to do if anyone wants a straight answer of where the market's at -- just pick a few days in February and compare them to a few days in October. Weed out all known enduser sales, pronounceables, and quad premiums from the calculation and compare performance of single to triple premiums in February to performance of single to triple premiums in October using an arbitrary percentile.

Yep. And there are many single to triple premium non-quad, non-pronounceable and non-end-users LLLL.com selling in October for wayyy above $2-$3.

Be a man and bring out some examples to justify you claims, after all you state I've been saying something else for months so it shouldn't be hard.

Like I said, please go peruse the poo.info thread that's up right now - lot's of things in there that you may relate to.

 

[.X.]

I never once doubted they would fall significantly in price, I knew they would, the hype is over.

The Premium and Generics have great value, The rest are junk, Imo

 

[Semtex]

Alright, here are the facts. I came up with the average sale for January 08' vs. October 08'. I threw out every sale over $489. Anything over this amount includes enduser sales and high cvcv/vcvc sales, which would skew the data.

Minimum recorded sale in January was $12.25
Minimum recorded sale in October is $2.75
78% Decrease in minimum sales.

Average 4L sale in January was $83.50
Average 4L sale in October is $88.74
6% Increase in average sales.

Both months had 160 sales under $30.

Whether you like it or not, the average has went up in 10 months.

 

[Nem0]

Alright, here are the facts. I came up with the average sale for January 08' vs. October 08'. I threw out every sale over $489. Anything over this amount includes enduser sales and high cvcv/vcvc sales, which would skew the data.

Minimum recorded sale in January was $12.25
Minimum recorded sale in October is $2.75
78% Decrease in minimum sales.

Average 4L sale in January was $83.50
Average 4L sale in October is $88.74
6% Increase in average sales.

Both months had 160 sales under $30.

Whether you like it or not, the average has went up in 10 months.

Hehe Nice job FC, sounds pretty good to me.


Another example of opposite minimum sales in todays low-end market (opposite from what people like snoop always post)...

I bought vnyt dot com (only a double-premium) from a major auction house one week ago for $12. I just sold it on eBay for $61 ten minutes ago. There were many people - most likely thousands - that had the chance to see and bid on vnyt when it was auctioned a week ago. I guess today's minimum has rocketed back up to peak levels, eh? I also just had another llll.com that I paid $16 for at a major auction house last week sell for $31 twenty minutes ago at eBay. It happens quite often, but of course the doom-and-gloom naysayers will ignore them and just post their CP'ed (cherry-picked) occasional sales and start announcing their version of the minimum price based on said sales.

Snoop, please factor sales like the ones I posted above into your "minimum assessment plan". Me, and I'm sure many others, would really respect the things you say a whole lot more. Thank you. I'm actually being sincere, I want to respect you more but I just can't until you start looking at the whole picture.

 

[VURG]

Even so it doesn't matter much what people believe the top was.

Your right. Sorry, I'm the pedantic statistician. I am more interested in the numbers than the conclusions.

 

[KingDon]

It's been a year and the bottom didn't fall out as our resident pessimists have been chanting, even with the economy being in a recession. It's true they took a hard hit, but they will bounce back after the election.

If Obama wins, the LLLL's will bounce back big time, because there will be hope for change in our American society. And when people believe there is hope, they will invest. Most of our transactions are with business people from the middle class. I don't know many people here making multi Million dollar deals with fortune 500's; but I do see plenty of small working company domain sales for $$$'s

 

[mibworld]

If you take a year, the standard period of comparison, you get a brighter image of llll’s.

The lower end of LLLL.com’s went from a price of RegFee at the end of October 2007 to around $7 + RegFee today. In the same period most other categories of domains suffered losses, due to current global economic situation. So, in the end, LLLL.com’s have been a better investment.

The first anniversary of buyout is an important moment for the future of LLLL’s. In my opinion we are going to see a gradual increase in the low end market, because we are not going to have the pressure of many expiring buyout domains for sale, as has been the case in the last days. At the same time, there’s going to be an important reduction in the number of drops in 2009. The other factor, and a very important one, is the economy, but no one can know for sure what’s going to happen in that area, so there is certainly a risk involved, but no higher than with any other asset.

 

[forest]

Well , snoop and some others are so stubborn that they miss or try to forget they missed the LLLL.com buyout (and miss it once again last month) , and now they once again try to defend their fault by lowering LLLL.com prices.
Infact, thats normal.
Domain is one kind of goods , and if LLLL.com's are being kept bought out time over time , then it prove its value. What the use of keeping arguing one goods is not worth while almost others are buying it? Some think they are smart enough to go against the market trend !

 

[Andrei P.]

I do remember that lot of LLLL.coms that was sold at eBay for 2-3$ (all were to be renewed immediately, so to tell the truth they are actually 10-11$ domains). Now look at eBay. The same portion of same quality domains is already 5-6$ (also are to be renewed). Snoop, does it mean we have 100% price increase in just 1 week?

Nobody tells that LLLL.coms performed well last year, but you are the one who wants to make things look even worse than they are.

BTW in October we were experiencing drops from August-2007 registrations. Number of registrations in August-2007 was more than in October-2007. Did we see thousands of drops. Actually we saw a outstanding 900 LLLL.com drop from July-2006 registrations and I don't think this drop is connected with unwillingness to renew them.

Full year number of drops:

Nov 2008 2881
Dec 2008 2181
Jan 2009 2471
Feb 2009 1474
Mar 2009 1542
Apr 2009 1193
May 2009 1330
Jun 2009 1425
Jul 2009 2490 (AFAIR there were 3 or 4 outstanding drops from the same person who dropped 900 domains in October)
Aug 2009 2337
Sep 2009 1950
Oct 2009 2783 (take into consideration 900-domains drop from 2006 registrations)

I think November, December and January drops will not be outstanding. Majority of these domains were bought by flippers and was already flipped to investors who paid not just regfees for them. Those who didn't want to renew them already resold them by pennies. The only concern is about domains located at EuroDNS and not renewed and not transferred to other registrars, because of very high renewal. I beforehand transferred all my EuroDNS domains from this inadequate registrar, but I know that many domainers are stuck with domains there that have less than 14 days before renewal and cannot be transferred-out

Now look at these drops numbers and just imagine what would become reseller prices for LLLL.coms if number of drops will be not thousands but just hundreds! And that is what I expect in 2009 and 2010.

Just let's give some time to LLLL.com niche to become mature like CCC.coms and we will see that these investments are yet to give $xxxxxx

 

[VURG]

I do remember that lot of LLLL.coms that was sold at eBay for 2-3$ (all were to be renewed immediately, so to tell the truth they are actually 10-11$ domains). Now look at eBay. The same portion of same quality domains is already 5-6$ (also are to be renewed).

For me, I take the attitude that an eBay transaction involves $15-$30 of my time. Unless I see a lot of 10 domains for $2/domain. I consider a $2 domain at eBay a loss as I value the low quality LLLL.com at the $15 mark.

 

[labrocca]

I actually did the perfect thing concerning the LLLL.com market. I had a few decent ones I had been buying over the years. When the mins were at $50+ (which they were) I was selling selling selling. I got $x,xxx for a couple that are probably barely worth low $xxx now. During the peak I didn't buy even one LLLL.com. And since then I have left that market alone. My focus now is premium 5L brandables (and forums)...and I mean premiums that are easily pronounced.

The LLLL.com market imho...has come and gone. These "sellouts" have now become meaningless imho. There will no longer be significant in future markets other than short bursts. Yes it's a milestone but let's be realistic. There are 1/2 million combinations...many held now by domainers with crappy letters adding to the sellout hoping to get a payday. The smart ones grabbed hundreds near the end and sold off immediately for $20-$40. That's 300% profit easily and could have been accomplished in a 2-4 month period.

The second reg fee renewal hits...you just dropped your ROI. And the closer to renewal date..the less you'll get. Buyers shy away from anything not quality expiring within 60 days.

My big problem with LLLL.com's are the weak combinations. LLL.com's stand a chance of being an acronym but that's not true for LLLL.com. Their strength imho is something pronouncable.

PWTL.com as an example..good letters. It's parked. Now what the heck would pwtl stand for? It can't be pronounced and fails the radio test. Many would consider this a triple-premium (some a quad). But what's the value? Looking at reg date it's 2003. That's 5 years of renewals ($40+). Top value imho...$50-$100 and that's generous...estibot gives it a regfee.

Now take pwtl and remove ANY letter...make any combination...

pwt.com
ptl.com
pwl.com
wtl.com
tlp.com
wpt.com
ptw.com

Now you see that each of those would be worth at least $5000 some worth $xx,xxx.

Some imho (amazing 4L btw) believe that the LLLL.com market is similar to the LLL.com market but I disagree. Some expect LLLL.com's to raise in value continously. I disagree. Domains are going to continue gaining in value on as quality USABLE domains. Some are forgetting it's the end-user buyer we all seek. This trading amongst each other is low-brow.

If you aren't holding good LLLL.coms that you grabbed for cheap you have missed the boat. One year later and things have changed dramatically.

Well..I said enough.

 

[Andrei P.]

However how then can you explain that number of LLLL.com end-user sales is much more than number of LLL.com end-user sales

 

[Kate]

My big problem with LLLL.com's are the weak combinations. LLL.com's stand a chance of being an acronym but that's not true for LLLL.com. Their strength imho is something pronouncable.

Some imho (amazing 4L btw) believe that the LLLL.com market is similar to the LLL.com market but I disagree. Some expect LLLL.com's to raise in value continously. I disagree. Domains are going to continue gaining in value on as quality USABLE domains. Some are forgetting it's the end-user buyer we all seek.

Exactly :tu:
It's a huge mistake to think the LLLL market obeys the same dynamics as LLLs

 

[thsung]

Happy B-Day LLLL.com buyout!!! Wish you all the best the following years!!!

 

[labrocca]

However how then can you explain that number of LLLL.com end-user sales is much more than number of LLL.com end-user sales

17,000 LLL.com's many of which are simply..not for sale

vs

450,000 LLLL.com's many of which ARE FOR SALE..so yes..they get sold and sure..end-users buy them. My point wasn't that LLLL.com's are worthless. My point is that LLLL.com's as a viable resellers market with these triple and quad premiums imho isn't a strong market. A minimum level for a LLLL.com should be reg fee. There are just too many names in the mix. For CCC.com's there are only 42,000 combinations that's 10% of the LLLL.com's. Might be appropriate to say they are worth 10% of their value too.

Did you know there are only 170,000 words in the Oxford english dictionary?

 

[cache]

if you own PWTL.com, you may sell it to me.

I actually did the perfect thing concerning the LLLL.com market. I had a few decent ones I had been buying over the years. When the mins were at $50+ (which they were) I was selling selling selling. I got $x,xxx for a couple that are probably barely worth low $xxx now. During the peak I didn't buy even one LLLL.com. And since then I have left that market alone. My focus now is premium 5L brandables (and forums)...and I mean premiums that are easily pronounced.

The LLLL.com market imho...has come and gone. These "sellouts" have now become meaningless imho. There will no longer be significant in future markets other than short bursts. Yes it's a milestone but let's be realistic. There are 1/2 million combinations...many held now by domainers with crappy letters adding to the sellout hoping to get a payday. The smart ones grabbed hundreds near the end and sold off immediately for $20-$40. That's 300% profit easily and could have been accomplished in a 2-4 month period.

The second reg fee renewal hits...you just dropped your ROI. And the closer to renewal date..the less you'll get. Buyers shy away from anything not quality expiring within 60 days.

My big problem with LLLL.com's are the weak combinations. LLL.com's stand a chance of being an acronym but that's not true for LLLL.com. Their strength imho is something pronouncable.

PWTL.com as an example..good letters. It's parked. Now what the heck would pwtl stand for? It can't be pronounced and fails the radio test. Many would consider this a triple-premium (some a quad). But what's the value? Looking at reg date it's 2003. That's 5 years of renewals ($40+). Top value imho...$50-$100 and that's generous...estibot gives it a regfee.

Now take pwtl and remove ANY letter...make any combination...

pwt.com
ptl.com
pwl.com
wtl.com
tlp.com
wpt.com
ptw.com

Now you see that each of those would be worth at least $5000 some worth $xx,xxx.

Some imho (amazing 4L btw) believe that the LLLL.com market is similar to the LLL.com market but I disagree. Some expect LLLL.com's to raise in value continously. I disagree. Domains are going to continue gaining in value on as quality USABLE domains. Some are forgetting it's the end-user buyer we all seek. This trading amongst each other is low-brow.

If you aren't holding good LLLL.coms that you grabbed for cheap you have missed the boat. One year later and things have changed dramatically.

Well..I said enough.

 

[-REECE-]

It was loved more once upon a time: http://web.archive.org/web/20010201091900/http://www.pwtl.com/

I really don't think one can go wrong with triple premiums, especially triple premiums of this quality. I'd much prefer to be sitting on 100 names of similar quality than on a single bad LLL.com.

PWTL.com as an example..good letters. It's parked. Now what the heck would pwtl stand for? It can't be pronounced and fails the radio test. Many would consider this a triple-premium (some a quad). But what's the value? Looking at reg date it's 2003. That's 5 years of renewals ($40+). Top value imho...$50-$100 and that's generous...estibot gives it a regfee.

Now take pwtl and remove ANY letter...make any combination...

pwt.com
ptl.com
pwl.com
wtl.com
tlp.com
wpt.com
ptw.com

Now you see that each of those would be worth at least $5000 some worth $xx,xxx.

Some imho (amazing 4L btw) believe that the LLLL.com market is similar to the LLL.com market but I disagree. Some expect LLLL.com's to raise in value continously. I disagree. Domains are going to continue gaining in value on as quality USABLE domains. Some are forgetting it's the end-user buyer we all seek. This trading amongst each other is low-brow.

If you aren't holding good LLLL.coms that you grabbed for cheap you have missed the boat. One year later and things have changed dramatically.

Well..I said enough.

 

[Andrei P.]

My point wasn't that LLLL.com's are worthless. My point is that LLLL.com's as a viable resellers market with these triple and quad premiums imho isn't a strong market. A minimum level for a LLLL.com should be reg fee.

The number of end-user LLLL.com sales is Much more than LLL.com But your point was to stress how smart you were and how dumb other LLLL.com investors (and I guess your buyers) are. Once you sold out you don't have a right to go and bash any niche that you are not interested in. My disrespect to you. I think I will never buy any name from you since one you sell it you will go to the thread and tell that now it's worth nothing. It's very easy to bash anything while everything is in a recession.

 

[-REECE-]

Here's a pic for the naysayers: http://img113.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ilovebaddomainsob7.jpg :sold:

 

[Marc M.]

Happy BirthDay LLLL.com buyout!!!

Wish you either all the best the following years!!!

 

[Malaysia]

OMG... time flies..its oredi a year.. Nov2nd is really a red letter day for all LLLL.com holders.. i remember that countdown thread was filled with active users..
Happy Anniversary to LLLL.com Buyout~!

 

[labrocca]

But your point was to stress how smart you were and how dumb other LLLL.com investors (and I guess your buyers) are. ]

That wasn't my intention. I was just telling my end of the story. I made my own personal choices concerning LLLL.com's and I think for me it was the right strategy. I know I can rebuy plenty of LLLL.com's if I wanted to enter the market again and at much cheaper rates.

Once you sold out you don't have a right to go and bash any niche that you are not interested in.

I have a right to express my opinion.

My disrespect to you.

Nice blunt comment. I can respect that. Sorry you feel I am bashing if your investment. I do think I have a right to share my story and express my opinion. There are plenty that think 5L brandables are junk.

Maybe a good argument would sway me otherwise. Snoop has proven to me a few things last week that made me alter my reality of a few things. Nothing says it can't happen here either. No it's not your responsibility to do that but one would think if you do believe the market is strong that you could explain why.

Don't hate the messenger...hate the message.

It's very easy to bash anything while everything is in a recession.

I was discussing the negatives of mobi at it's peak. Now it's at it's lowest place ever. I don't need a recession to see a bad investment.

I learned the hard way with my CCC.net investment that it's better to have quality names than some random crap just because the genre is sold out. I do think that era is over. There is a lot of saturation and especially in the reseller market. How do you see this playing out. I can respect alternate opinions.

Reece- The domain in your pic is expired pending delete.

 

[mibworld]

You mentioned that there are more than 450,000 LLLL.com’s. That’s right, but you forgot to mention that there are thousands and thousands of 4-letter dictionary words, not only in English, but in languages as Spanish, Chinese, German, French, Italian and many more. There are also thousands of usual and valuable 4-letter acronyms. Thousands more are extremely rare, pronounceable or brandable names (like triple repeats, CVCV’s, etc.) that are in the hands of strong investors for the long term, and which are, for all practical means, out of the market. Finally, there are thousands of developed sites and many being sold to end users each day.

You want to compare LLLL.com’s to CCC’s, but you forgot to consider that there are no dictionary words with CCC’s, almost no acronyms, very few developed sites, and almost no end user demand.

17,000 LLL.com's many of which are simply..not for sale

vs

450,000 LLLL.com's many of which ARE FOR SALE..so yes..they get sold and sure..end-users buy them. My point wasn't that LLLL.com's are worthless. My point is that LLLL.com's as a viable resellers market with these triple and quad premiums imho isn't a strong market. A minimum level for a LLLL.com should be reg fee. There are just too many names in the mix. For CCC.com's there are only 42,000 combinations that's 10% of the LLLL.com's. Might be appropriate to say they are worth 10% of their value too.

Did you know there are only 170,000 words in the Oxford english dictionary?

 

[-REECE-]

Yeah it was a one day wonder which I sold earlier this year and it appears new owner dropped. One day like that pays for 3 years renewal though... Food for thought. FWIW, my 2000-strong LLLL.info portfolio brings in 10,000+ uniques/month -- makes you wonder how much traffic a solid LLLL.com portfolio would bring in.

Reece- The domain in your pic is expired pending delete.