NP$ System Revaluation - Important

[RJ]

Just wanted to make a thread here to make sure everyone's seen the NP$ announcement here:

http://www.namepros.com/namepros-info-and-suggestions-announcements.html

I noticed it didn't allow for comments when I posted it as a forum announcement.

Discuss here if you want!

RJ

 

[d0main]

Then maybe I'm the stupid one. You're saying I would be liable for more services like domains or advertising with a higher rate of revaluation, but you're missing the fact that we will be setting the prices of the services we offer accordingly. If I had paid you $.02 for your NP$ and but it costs twice as much to buy services from us, would you really feel richer? Not at all.

Since the change is supposed to set the NP currency system on the USD, how is it fair that someone who would've had $80 had the exchange rate been .02, now has $68? Whether it is true or not, the $12 appears to have gone straight into your pocket. While it may not be such a big deal for individuals like me, many people, when looking at the NP economy as a whole, think that the change has been entirely for your benefit. However, aside from this point, Michael has made everything else very clear for you. So I'll stop here.

Seriously, back up your comments with some real suggestions or answers to the questions I posted. What would a fair exchange rate have been, and why?

Thank you for your suggestion, but I have posted with much humility and courtesy, which you seem to lack at this point in time.

 

[GF]

Since the change is supposed to set the NP currency system on the USD, how is it fair that someone who would've had $80 had the exchange rate been .02, now has $68? Whether it is true or not, the $12 appears to have gone straight into your pocket.

How did that money go into his pocket?

A value of $80 that is re-valued at $68 does not mean anyone pocketed that money. The $12 is an unrealized gain.

 

[-REECE-]

If anything, RJ would lose money with the conversion as he's done it -- it makes it more enticing to deal with the bank (RJ) rather than other NPers. From an economic point of view, it would be in RJ's best interest to keep the bank rate and the street rate as far apart as possible -- RJ loses money when people choose to sell to him rather than other NPers.

Since the change is supposed to set the NP currency system on the USD, how is it fair that someone who would've had $80 had the exchange rate been .02, now has $68? Whether it is true or not, the $12 appears to have gone straight into your pocket. While it may not be such a big deal for individuals like me, many people, when looking at the NP economy as a whole, think that the change has been entirely for your benefit. However, aside from this point, Michael has made everything else very clear for you. So I'll stop here.

 

[Michael]

Galel... if you pay RJ $20 and he now says you have $17... there's still $20 in RJ's bank account... you just only have access to $17 of it now. The $3 wasn't an unrealized gain, it was a REAL gain in RJ's bank account that was involuntarily donated.

Reece, granted it is better for RJ when the forum money stays in the system and doesn't get sold back to the bank. However, by calling it .017 instead of .02, he now has to keep less money in the bank to back the "economy". He "disappeared" 15% of the total money in the system, and that frees up 15% that he had to keep on hold before in case everyone decided to sell everything back to the bank at the same time. Not saying it was intentional, but that's the effect it had.

Besides, RJ doesn't "lose" money when people sell their forum money back to the bank... he's paying them with their own money. The only difference is, you paid 0.02 per NP$, and he's giving you back 0.012. Yea, he's making out really bad in that situation.

I don't see how people can argue this with a straight face. The agreed upon definition of 1NP was that it equaled $0.02 USD. So, if you are going to stop calling it NP$ and start reporting the balance in dollars, how does it make any sense whatsoever to not use the agreed upon definition?

It's clear as day... if someone pays RJ $20 for 1,000 NP, then when you report the USD balance, you should have $20, not $17. The more management defends this the clearer it is becoming that there is intent to confuse people into thinking this actually has any logic behind it.

 

[mwzd]

Nothing has to be "exchanged" because NP$ WAS NOT A CURRECNY, it was a silly name for two pennies.

It was a nice name for 0.017 dollars :p

The new system is in place. This is how it is going to be. Some of you who were not on top of what was happening on NamePros might have lost the opportunity to get a dollar or so more for your balance prior to the change.

Actually this is the reason i love NamePros, no other board would even have enjoined a discussion on it :D

And RJ is willing to listen, but I'm sure that like me he can't understand what the fuss is about. Its so petty it would be funny if wasn't irritating.

Who's the good 'ol boys club?

Let me know when you find out will ya?

RJ if there was ever a time to change a membership fee its now IMO, change the revaluation to .02 and then make it $10 to join Namepros and all members join or copy their data and sell their N$ if they are not.

Most popular forums charge $50 :p Plus a $5/$10 'verification' charge.

Since the change is supposed to set the NP currency system on the USD, how is it fair that someone who would've had $80 had the exchange rate been .02, now has $68?

The exchange rate was actually 0.015, when was the last transaction you had at 0.020? Probably in December last year, if that. I'd say you actually gained out of this conversion.

Thank you for your suggestion, but I have posted with much humility and courtesy, which you seem to lack at this point in time.

Put up or shut up dude, if you have any idea, spill it, or move on. Telling a man who provides you all this for free that he lacks humility and courtesy just goes to show what you really are.

You use this forum for FREE. You get the new features with the upgrade for FREE. You get to sell domains here w/o any transaction fees, for FREE. You know how many people mod the forum for FREE?

And you cry about losing a notional $3 which was never with RJ to start with? Times must be really tough. :D

The more management defends this the clearer it is becoming that there is intent to confuse people into thinking this actually has any logic behind it.

I'm not management but just a team member who loves this forum and it saddens me to see so called big time domainers / businessmen arguing over a perceived $1.50 difference in their bank accounts.

 

[krishmk]

Can anyone tell me when the service (selling NP$ to bank) would resume. I saw in the home page that it would be fixed by friday. But we are on Sunday today. Any updates on it?

 

[d0main]

Put up or shut up dude, if you have any idea, spill it, or move on. Telling a man who provides you all this for free that he lacks humility and courtesy just goes to show what you really are.

You use this forum for FREE. You get the new features with the upgrade for FREE. You get to sell domains here w/o any transaction fees, for FREE. You know how many people mod the forum for FREE?

And you cry about losing a notional $3 which was never with RJ to start with? Times must be really tough.

Ugh, I just wanted to leave it as it is, but it seems as if you want to continue the flame.

Take a good hard look at your post and at mine. I backed up my posts with a myriad of explanations and suggestions, while you have uttered nothing but ad hominem attacks and drivel about how everything is provided for "FREE."

As I have said in my post, I really could care less about the "$3" that disappeared from my account. However, I have continued this discussion in hopes that the NP management will be holding accountable or, at least, admitting to the source of some of the frustrations of the our members. I really did not expected to be told "shut up" repeatedly when RJ himself told us to "Continue the discussion."

And please do not even attempt at trying to confuse the public that this forum is provided for "free." Do you really think that you can tell a webmaster forum that these advertisements that are everywhere on our webpages are for charity?

While I do really appreciate the service that RJ has provided for us, please don't feed me bullshit about how this forum is a "FREE" enterprise.

Samit, I do have a lot of respect for you both as a domainer and a moderator. But stay out of conversations if you have nothing constructive to add.

 

[mwzd]

But stay out of conversations if you have nothing constructive to add.

I'm saying your $3 which you claim to have lost was only notional, not real money. Do you have a counter argument to that? You assume that the money was actually in the system, I'll say it wasn't.

What is your constructive argument here? RJ asked for what you would do, please state something you would.

And this forum is free, even paid forums have ads.

 

[equity78]

I think the problem is some people are stating .02 was written in stone somewhere, and others are stating .02 was not the going rate for a long time. AND NO NP$ was never defined as meaning two pennies, that is an out and out lie. NOWHERE was anyone ever told if you have 1 NP$ it was equal to two pennies.

Samit I know some forums charge $50, I told RJ to start charging fee in 2005.

And yes the forum is free, because there are ads on a site does not mean the site is not free to the people who use the site. And if Namepros has been losing money for the last 8 months then the ads have not meant too much.

 

[Michelle]

Ummm interesting thread.

I can see and understand all points being raised. I for one would have donated all the nps I had to ensure nps remained here for me to use and if RJ and NPQ ever feel its needs a fee to join, im there. Saying that I can see that anyone that bought from the bank may feel alittle hard done by the change. I would suggest if possible that anyone that dealt with other members in nps this was done deals at agreed prices between THEM nothing to do with the bank. I know I was very lucky in the end to have even got a rate of 18 let alone 20. If you actually bought from the bank then yes you paid bank rates which maybe these and only these transactions could be looked at?? but the others were as I said agreed prices between members.

 

[Blake]

After reading all the posts as I have been keeping a watchful eye on this thread since it started I have just a few observations. I for one didn't have a lot of NP$ in my account so on that ground have no issues with the revaluation. I feel switching it to a dollar ratio was a very wise decision. Its much easier to keep track of what things cost etc. Now as far as some being disgruntled about the revaluation I would like to suggest a few things. Why not chalk it up to helping provide the upgrades and server power to keep this Huge Marketplace open to the public on a free basis. I mean honestly would you rather have the few dollars you may have lost or keep namepros going strong into the future. RJ has the best intentions of us the users at the front of his thought process. You can easily see this by him asking for opinions/options from users who feel they were wronged. You don't find that kind of concession at many places now days anywhere.

I just want to say lets hear a hooooooooooooooooahhhh for the new namepros and the future of this great marketplace!

Cheers and no offense is intended and this isn't directed at any particular person/persons.

 

[equity78]

Actually I believe RJ hurt himself converting to $1, The old system if you went to the bank they would sell you NP$ for .023 and buy it for .012. Big spread between the bid and the ask, so others came in and became a market maker in between. So no one buying from the bank at .023 when there were sellers at .019,.018,.017. That meant RJ did not have to worry about a lot of people selling to the bank either who would take .012 when they could get .016 or .017. Now its $1, does anyone think RJ has enough cash that if everyone made a run on the bank and said "Here is my N$ and here is my paypal send the cash" Who thinks RJ has those thousands sitting around ? There is now a fixed rate $1 no spread RJ is the one who really got screwed IMO.

 

[Michelle]

Actually I believe RJ hurt himself converting to $1, The old system if you went to the bank they would sell you NP$ for .023 and buy it for .012. Big spread between the bid and the ask, so others came in and became a market maker in between. So no one buying from the bank at .023 when there were sellers at .019,.018,.017. That meant RJ did not have to worry about a lot of people selling to the bank either who would take .012 when they could get .016 or .017. Now its $1, does anyone think RJ has enough cash that if everyone made a run on the bank and said "Here is my N$ and here is my paypal send the cash" Who thinks RJ has those thousands sitting around ? There is now a fixed rate $1 no spread RJ is the one who really got screwed IMO.

:bingo:

 

[unknowngiver]

Personally, I dont see the need of the revaluation
if you are going to offer more services, just have people buy them via paypal or moneybookers, why bring n$ in it?

If you want, just add the option of buying it using NP$ aswell,[the old np$]

how would anyone earn N$ anyway? by doing work for someone in exchange of N$ or adding n$ via paypal [buying n$]?
so instead of transfering N$ from paypal to your namepros account, and then using it to buy the "new" services that will be offered, why not just use paypal to buy the service

I personally think that the revaluation will hurt alot of users with "small" businesses on namepros, even though i agree that it does make things simpler.

however, you never know how things turn out

P.S: RJ any hint on what the new services being offered will be?

 

[Captain Tycoon]

Is RJ going to buy the N$ from us when-ever we want to sell it at the same price as we can purchase it?

Actually I believe RJ hurt himself converting to $1, The old system if you went to the bank they would sell you NP$ for .023 and buy it for .012. Big spread between the bid and the ask, so others came in and became a market maker in between. So no one buying from the bank at .023 when there were sellers at .019,.018,.017. That meant RJ did not have to worry about a lot of people selling to the bank either who would take .012 when they could get .016 or .017. Now its $1, does anyone think RJ has enough cash that if everyone made a run on the bank and said "Here is my N$ and here is my paypal send the cash" Who thinks RJ has those thousands sitting around ? There is now a fixed rate $1 no spread RJ is the one who really got screwed IMO.

 

[Michelle]

Is RJ going to buy the N$ from us when-ever we want to sell it at the same price as we can purchase it?

Selling them back to the bank was always far lower then buying them.

 

[unknowngiver]

Selling them back to the bank was always far lower then buying them.

true but now 1usd = 1n$

 

[Michelle]

As long as we keep some sort of forum payment I will be happy

It's great to be able to do many smaller transactions without the need of my paypal account. I have always accepted nps from members I may otherwise not deal with if I had to use my pp account i.e new members or those with no TR.

 

[GF]

Galel... if you pay RJ $20 and he now says you have $17... there's still $20 in RJ's bank account... you just only have access to $17 of it now. The $3 wasn't an unrealized gain, it was a REAL gain in RJ's bank account that was involuntarily donated.

IF you pay RJ $20. :bingo:

We have had an NP$ Exchange where members could pay less than $0.02 per NP$, and the going rate the last couple of months has been anywhere from $0.015-$0.018

This is money going from member-to-member. I just think you're over-generalizing a bit, assuming that all the NP$ were purchased straight from RJ. A TON of NP$ that are floating around in the NP$ Economy have originated from Moderator and Staff salaries, when the NamePros Staff was getting paid.

Thousands of NP$ entered the economy on a weekly basis, and on a given week, most of the NP$ that were being sold in the Exchange were other members buying from Staff members who had NP$ that were donated to them from RJ's account.

 

[Pound]

How did that money go into his pocket?

A value of $80 that is re-valued at $68 does not mean anyone pocketed that money. The $12 is an unrealized gain.

That $12 lost is $12 that could have been sold to the bank - thus saving NP owners ~$1.

Also, in regards to people saying we shouldn't complain about losing money because this is FREE. This is an awful argument - the members make this community and I am almost certain I have given more than I've taken on this forum.

 

[rikii]

The exchange rate was actually 0.015, when was the last transaction you had at 0.020? Probably in December last year, if that. I'd say you actually gained out of this conversion.

Some people might have been selling large amounts that cheap but everybody certainty wasn't, my last 4 transactions were either 0.020 or 0.019.

 

[mwzd]

Also, in regards to people saying we shouldn't complain about losing money because this is FREE. This is an awful argument - the members make this community

Its simple Pound, the money was never there to be lost in the first place. And I never said we should 'contribute' what we lost, basically because we didn't really lose anything! To somehow demand a higher payment for something that was regularly traded at or below the exchange rate given is ludicrous.

Some people might have been selling large amounts that cheap but everybody certainty wasn't, my last 4 transactions were either 0.020 or 0.019.

I assume smaller amounts trade at a higher exchange to compensate for paypal fees. Nothing more.

Anyway, I'm done with this thread, its much ado about nothing. Good Luck.

 

[Michael]

Samit, calling this argument petty is really rude and short-sighted. The only reason you don't see more people jumping in complaining is that they are selfish. They say "hey, I only lost $1, why should I care?" I only lost less than $10... I make $10 every 10 minutes, I couldn't care less. But I'm one of the few that sees if you screw 15,000 people for $2 each... that's not PETTY.

Just because people traded NP$ to offer better liquidity than RJ's 0.012, that doesn't change the fact that when the NP$ entered the system, it entered at .02 within the past two years at least. THE MONEY IS THERE. Anyone who says it isn't is either really obtuse, or is out to screw people. I'm not going to say it again after this. If I paid $20 to RJ for 1,000 NP$ before the revaluation, then after the revaluation to USD, there IS NO REASON I should not have $20. None.

If I sell that 1,000 NP$ to Reece for $17, and he sells it to Samit for $15, and Samit sells it to mellow for $13, that doesn't matter... there is STILL $20 in RJ's bank account that that NP$ represents. The fact that people traded it around is irrelevant, as only the sellers lost out to get their liquidity... the value of NP$ never changed in that scenario.

Also, the fact that RJ pumped a lot of NP$ into the economy is also totally irrelevant. If RJ gave you 400NP$ a week to moderate, he essentially spent $8. The only difference between that and someone actually buying NP$ is that the cash came out of RJ's pocket... as it should... he's paying you to work on his forum. Irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

Equity, in the chat room there is a converter saying 1NP = $0.02 USD. Saying it wasn't stated anywhere is ridiculous. Ask anyone on the forum who has NP$, and they can tell you the same conversion rate. Think that is a coincidence, or a lucky guess? It was common knowledge.

I'm off to donate my $52.24 (actually worth $61.46 before the screw-up) to RJ as a thank you for running NamePros. Again, I don't care about the $9.22 I lost, I care about the thousands upon thousands that we lost in aggregate.

---------- Post added at 12:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:16 PM ----------

FYI to RJ, there's a bug that won't let you donate your entire balance, it says you don't have enough $. Not a huge deal as it will let you do all but $0.01, but just wanted to let you know.

 

[-MGS-]

Michael you have said Samit is "rude and short-sighted2 but I am going to do the same to you for saying that members who do not comment on this thread are "selfish" which is rather insulting. The 15,000 members who wont comment, they wont comment as they have nothing to say, if this was a huge problem and people felt so much about it we would have loads of members coming her to say what they want to say but we dont.

My view on this top is...

With everything comes change, with change you will get people who like the old way or do not like how things have been changed as they have not benifited. I am happy with how RJ has done thing and how he has gone about informing all members about the change, if you have not noitced the thread about all this before it happened... that your problem, it was clearly visable.

But RJ, keep up the good work! Have a pint on me some day!

 

[Pound]

Michael you have said Samit is "rude and short-sighted2 but I am going to do the same to you for saying that members who do not comment on this thread are "selfish" which is rather insulting. The 15,000 members who wont comment, they wont comment as they have nothing to say, if this was a huge problem and people felt so much about it we would have loads of members coming her to say what they want to say but we dont.

My view on this top is...

With everything comes change, with change you will get people who like the old way or do not like how things have been changed as they have not benifited. I am happy with how RJ has done thing and how he has gone about informing all members about the change, if you have not noitced the thread about all this before it happened... that your problem, it was clearly visable.

But RJ, keep up the good work! Have a pint on me some day!

You say Michael is 'rude and short-sighted'. This is absolutely untrue. I believe he is absolutely right in what he says and has even shown that it isn't the fact that he has lost money that angers him but the fact of what has happened. There are many members who, firstly, probably don't know what exactly has happened and, secondly, don't really care as they have lost <$1.