New Rules Proposed for Expired Domain Names

[Dave_Z]

This came in from DomainNameWire:

http://domainnamewire.com/2011/02/21/new-rules-proposed-for-expired-domain-names/

The actual ICANN link:

http://www.icann.org/en/announcements/announcement-2-21feb11-en.htm

Recommendation #1: Define "Registered Name Holder at Expiration" (RNHaE) to clearly identify the entity or individual that was eligible to renew the domain name registration immediately prior to expiration.

Recommendation #2: Provide a minimum of 8 days after expiration when the RNHaE can renew, and disable normal operation during that time to attract the attention of the RNHaE.

Recommendation #3: Changes to WHOIS after expiration must not alter the RNHaE ability to renew.

Recommendation #4: All unsponsored gTLD Registries shall offer the Redemption Grace Period (RGP).

Recommendation #5: If a Registrar offers registrations in a gTLD that supports the RGP, the Registrar must allow the Registered Name Holder at Expiration to redeem the Registered Name after it has entered RGP.

Recommendation #6: Registrar website should state any fee(s) charged for the post-expiration renewal of a domain name.

Recommendation #7: Registrars who have a web presence, shall provide a link to ICANN published web content providing educational materials with respect to registrant responsibilities and the gTLD domain life-cycle.

Recommendation #8: ICANN, with the support of Registrars, ALAC and other interested parties, is to develop educational materials about how to properly steward a domain name and how to prevent unintended loss.

Recommendation #9: The registration agreement and Registrar web site (if one is used) must clearly indicate what methods will be used to deliver pre- and post-expiration notifications.

Recommendation #10: Registrar must notify Registered name Holder of impending expiration no less than two times. Subject to an exceptions policy, the timing of such notices is specified.

Recommendation #11: Notifications of impending expiration must include method(s) that do not require explicit action other than standard e-mail receipt in order to receive such notifications.

Recommendation #12: Unless the Registered Name is deleted by the Registrar, at least one notification must be sent after expiration.

Recommendation #13: If at any time after expiration when the Registered Name is still renewable by the RNHaE, the Registrar changes the DNS resolution path to effect a different landing website than the one used by the RNHaE prior to expiration, the page shown must explicitly say that the domain has expired and give instructions on how to recover the domain.

Recommendation #14: Best Practice: If post-expiration notifications are normally sent to a point of contact using the domain in question, and delivery is known to have been interrupted by post-expiration actions, post-expiration notifications should be sent to some other contact point associated with the registrant if one exists.

Comments are welcome via e-mail to pednr-proposed-final-report AT icann DOT org until 7 April 2011.

I figured I'd place it here so folks can readily see and comment. Speaking of which, don't forget to actually email your feedback to ICANN directly aside from commenting here.

 

[Dave_Z]

So what rights should the registrar have in this situation ?

That's...defined in your registrar's contract. Beyond that, we'll endlessly debate what rights one should and shouldn't have like this and other similar discussions before...that ended up like the Energizer bunny.

Sure, a contract's terms doesn't mean it's enforceable. Until a court of competent jurisdiction says otherwise, though, well...you know...

Who gives the right to the registrar to change your name into theirs and take over ownership? This is theft.

Easy there, Erdinc. While that term essentially allows the registrar to do that, I guarantee you that no one, in their right (?) mind, will just take the domain without an arguably valid, material reason and risk their reputation over that.

I suppose that's also debatable, though, depending on what side of the fence one is on. I just happen to be in the so-called middle because I've been on both sides, and I can understand them.

(And now, now, no you're-either-this-side-or-that-side or you're-either-with-us-or-against-us thing, folks. That's what Bush essentially said before, and look what's happened.)

Anyway, just be sure to send your comments to ICANN about this. This is about setting standards how to treat domains after expiry.

 

[DU]

That's...defined in your registrar's contract. Beyond that, we'll endlessly debate what rights one should and shouldn't have like this and other similar discussions before...that ended up like the Energizer bunny.

Sure, a contract's terms doesn't mean it's enforceable. Until a court of competent jurisdiction says otherwise, though, well...you know...

Some confusion because the example was not after redemption period but the quote from DubDubDubDot stated this.


So... we were talking about domains that were at the end of the redemption period. At this point the rights as the RNHaE are gone and the contract between registrar and RNHaE are moot.

The point I was making was that the registrar should have no rights to renew as their own entity. If the domain is allowed to go full lifecycle then it is off to pendingDelete and then dropped.

If we're talking pure expiry then I'm of the opinion that the ICANN quote above should stand. The RNHaE can renew - else it is dropped.

 

[akael]

I think forcing all domains to drop and cutting out the auctions would have quite an effect on the market that some of you are not thinking about.

The big guys like GoDaddy make so much money from these activities now, and if taken away they would just raise their price to account for the lost revenue.

There would be no more sub $10 .coms

 

[Archangel]

$10 is already standard for .com's. In fact, it's higher. GD does have coupon codes though and some places are a bit cheaper than $10. Still, if prices rise, so be it. Snapnames etc. have no right to do as they do (this thread explains it well) and com on, be realistic: If you had the chance to catch ace.com, assuming it dropped, would you feel better knowing you had a chance at it? Or if that's irrelevant to you, do you smile and sleep soundly knowing that this illicit practice auction houses are doing are gypping us? I'm 100% all-in for a return to the primitive times, when there was only com/net/or/co.uk in common usage and AUCTIONS DID NOT EXIST.

Save for RegisterFly. I can't stand them. lol

But these re all my opinions, of course.

I think forcing all domains to drop and cutting out the auctions would have quite an effect on the market that some of you are not thinking about.

The big guys like GoDaddy make so much money from these activities now, and if taken away they would just raise their price to account for the lost revenue.

There would be no more sub $10 .coms

 

[Dave_Z]

The point I was making was that the registrar should have no rights to renew as their own entity. If the domain is allowed to go full lifecycle then it is off to pendingDelete and then dropped.

Ahhhh, okay. So expire...then drop to redemption immediately...then pending delete...then available.

As akael suggested, registrars can raise their price somewhere to compensate if auctioning were eliminated. Auctioning expired domains is practically the major money-making scheme for them nowadays.

Even if the domain's life cycle were strictly followed, it won't really stop the likes of SnapNames from beating others to the high-traffic, dropping domains because of their greater resources. Before RGP was introduced, folks like Yun Ye (I think) and Kevin Ham wrote programs to eventually snatch domains the moment they became available.

If anything, the only good thing I see auctioning does is cut the waiting time. Oh, and if the registrar (like Network Solutions) gives the ex-registrant a cut from the proceeds of that auction.

But I get the idea, though. Just try to make the playing field of grabbing dropped domains as level as possible.

 

[akael]

I didn't mean to sound like I was in favor of them auctioning off names, but I thought my point was something that hadn't been brought up.

At GoDaddy I have been paying $6.17 total per .com registered or renewed. And haven't paid over $7.67 for an available name ever.

I actually thing cutting the auctioning, forcing all names to be dropped, and giving everyone a chance would be a good thing.

I do think this would raise the fees like I said before, but that would only make each name more valuable to start with. It would also raise the risk for people who purchase names in bulk.

$10 is already standard for .com's. In fact, it's higher. GD does have coupon codes though and some places are a bit cheaper than $10. Still, if prices rise, so be it. Snapnames etc. have no right to do as they do (this thread explains it well) and com on, be realistic: If you had the chance to catch ace.com, assuming it dropped, would you feel better knowing you had a chance at it? Or if that's irrelevant to you, do you smile and sleep soundly knowing that this illicit practice auction houses are doing are gypping us? I'm 100% all-in for a return to the primitive times, when there was only com/net/or/co.uk in common usage and AUCTIONS DID NOT EXIST.

Save for RegisterFly. I can't stand them. lol

But these re all my opinions, of course.

 

[Erdy]

If anything, the only good thing I see auctioning does is cut the waiting time.

No. There is nothing good about it. Most good domains don't make it into auction and even if they do, as you can see in the example I posted above everything about the process is wrong.

Check feminism.com a few messages above.

 

[DU]

Even if the domain's life cycle were strictly followed, it won't really stop the likes of SnapNames from beating others to the high-traffic, dropping domains because of their greater resources.

Keep Up! That's why I also wanted a non-deterministic drop time ALONG with restrictive registration availability/registration request limits (to prevent the normal DDOS type dropcatching)

Before RGP was introduced, folks like Yun Ye (I think) and Kevin Ham wrote programs to eventually snatch domains the moment they became available.

There is nothing to stop them as long as they stay within registrar limits Also, with the lack or pre-release things would change. I actually think the AFTER MARKET would be stronger as pre-drop negotiations would be preferable to drop risk. In essence it would be a pre-release auction but controlled (or ignored) by the Original registrant.

If anything, the only good thing I see auctioning does is cut the waiting time.

Namejet has no wait time cut at all. The domain can be emergency recovered for over 30 days after you "win". GoDaddy saves about 30 days... but you also only get 10-11 months of a registration if you "win".

I'm sure even this system would be gamed. I just would like the shady stuff taken out of the equation. I don't believe ENOM makes much of an effort to contact the current owners of a name - more than once I've simply contacted someone with an expiring domain that they've subsequently renewed - not to buy, just to tell them it's worth too much to drop

 

[Dave_Z]

Check feminism.com a few messages above.

Oh that? If it's not auctioned by March 21, it'll fall into RGP and all.

Not unless Register.com does a Tucows/YummyNames thing. That's one thing I'd like to see done away because end users hardly get a shot at those other expiring names, but aren't willing to pay high via auction.

I just would like the shady stuff taken out of the equation.

Yup. Of course, that means materially identifying the shady stuff first, and demonstrating how they're as real and shady as Marshall Mathers.

Incidentally, I found a few forum threads indicating eNom does send renewal notices but only those registered directly with them. So they're likely notifying their resellers instead, then let the resellers notify their end-users in turn.

Now there's a comment you can make to ICANN on this subject...

(Yeesh, and it's only now I just noticed the thread I originally posted here has been moved back from Industry News...)

 

[Erdy]

If it's not auctioned by March 21, it'll fall into RGP and all.

No it won't. Make a search for feminism on snapnames home page. The minimum bid is 15.000 USD.

Dave, there are already bidders for feminism.com. However even if there were no bidders, how realistic is it to say it will continue dropping while you clearly see the minimum bid is set to 15.000 USD by the registrar. I have contacted snapnames and they told me they let some of their partner registrars set whatever minimum price they want. And 15.000 USD is what these guys come up with.

Are you suggesting that a registrar that values their expired domain at 15.000 USD would let it go for free if they wouldn't find any buyers at that price? That's not realistic is it. What they are saying is simple. Either pay 15.000 or we will keep this for ourselves.

The bigger issue is, feminism.com is just one domain that you see but there are 100 similar quality domains that you don't see because they never make it into auction.

You are absolutely right about nobody getting a shot at high quality domains. This includes especially us, domainers.

 

[Dave_Z]

Are you suggesting that a registrar that values their expired domain at 15.000 USD would let it go for free if they wouldn't find any buyers at that price? That's not realistic is it.

If they don't drop it per ICANN's domain expiration policy unless "formally" renewed somehow, I got my itchy trigger finger on ICANN's reporting link for potentially violating that. ICANN might or might not take immediate action, but I'll be sure to at least let them know with a specific example like the one you mentioned.

 

[Erdy]

You can only report what you know. However you can't report something that you don't know.

I have some very sophisticated software to scan auction lists. I checked 17.000 pre-release domains at snapnames and couldn't find a single quality domain. The situation is much worse then it looks. Those expire lists are heavily filtered.

Just to demonstrate how bad it is please have a look at the domains below. These domains are right now in auction. The price that you see next to them is not the bidding price. It is the minimum price set by the current registrar.

This particular registrar, register.com decided to try to sell those domains at auction. As you can see they made some effort to check the quality and put a price. It means they are scanning all their expireds. Other registrars do it too. However they don't send it to auction. They keep them.

There are some nice domains here but most of them will land in somebody's private portfolio unless you are ready to pay premiums. Trust me, those people do not plan letting these domains drop.


minocycline.com 45000 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
baratosvuelos.com 30000 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
videosharing.com 25000 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
ranchophucko.com 17845 Namejet PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
feminism.com 15000 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
fruitsandpassion.com 15000 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
chinesemovies.com 15000 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
clustering.com 12500 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
parkmodelhomes.com 8000 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
brandshoes.com 8000 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
dutasteride.com 7500 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
communitycentre.com 5000 Namejet PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
poool.com 5000 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
lcdmonitormount.com 4500 Namejet PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
planostorage.com 4000 Namejet PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
debttrap.com 4000 Namejet PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
jalexander.com 4000 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
extasy.com 3500 Namejet PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
telemujeres.com 3500 Namejet PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
bridesmaidsjewelry.com 3400 Namejet PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
mortgageplanneruniversity.com 3100 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
hotelparadiso.com 3000 Namejet PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
okas.com 3000 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
industrialengineerjobs.com 3000 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
deuxminutes.com 2500 Namejet PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
tampatoday.com 2500 Namejet PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
carnivor.com 2500 Namejet PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
childrenphotographers.com 2500 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
choosetheusa.com 2500 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
goldenfire.com 2500 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
vlogfeed.com 2000 Namejet PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
belvaux.com 2000 Namejet PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
truckcrane.com 2000 Namejet PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
goodes.com 2000 Namejet PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
soccerprofile.com 2000 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
yquesexo.com 2000 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
usedpresses.com 2000 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
selectionpressure.com 2000 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
emaileditor.com 2000 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
architectfirm.com 2000 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
planke.com 2000 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
churchreview.com 2000 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
futurohoy.com 1800 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
colonicdetox.com 1700 Namejet PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
homesforfamilies.com 1700 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
phena.com 1700 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
stevehankinscorvette.com 1575 Namejet PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
textmania.com 1525 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
styrofoamproducts.com 1500 Namejet PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
debased.com 1500 Namejet PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
rockslide.com 1500 Namejet PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
passionradio.com 1500 Namejet PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
brinkshomesecurityonline.com 1500 Namejet PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
vlach.com 1500 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
krystalklear.com 1500 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
chinesecalendars.com 1500 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
hrsonline.com 1500 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
purplesheets.com 1500 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
demagogy.com 1300 Namejet PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
helmethair.com 1250 Namejet PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
pediatriccareoflansing.com 1200 Namejet PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
thelump.com 1200 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
hmwx.com 1200 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
sureshock.com 1200 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
darcytucker.com 1200 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
gibsonacousticguitar.com 1100 Namejet PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
sellsong.com 1100 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
chenlu.com 1100 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
aapartyrentalsandsales.com 1050 Namejet PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
arismlsdpol.com 1050 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
msgsearch.com 1000 Namejet PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
eplm.com 1000 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
leecanter.com 1000 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
taxadvantages.com 1000 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
guidewireconnection.com 1000 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
restoremyyouth.com 1000 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
bahbah.com 1000 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
westminsterseminary.com 1000 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
photobelle.com 1000 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
gpsstores.com 1000 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
brightit.com 1000 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.
pclinuxonline.com 1000 Snapnames PreRelease REGISTER.COM, INC.

 

[adamtailor13]

They say that with most competitions, People associated with the sponsoring company can not enter. Similar would be good here: No registrar or persons associated with a record should be able to carry out and / or domain backordering. That could help a lot.

 

[Archangel]

My beef with auction houses is that they aren't allowing the rest of us to play on an even field. With auction houses, it's like bringing a knife into a gun-fight. It's terribly unfair and above all, they're playing a game THAT WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO PLAY. Many domains do not drop at all thanks to Snapnames etc. Level playing field, playing the same game, utilizing the same tools of the trade... that's what we need.

I didn't mean to sound like I was in favor of them auctioning off names, but I thought my point was something that hadn't been brought up.

At GoDaddy I have been paying $6.17 total per .com registered or renewed. And haven't paid over $7.67 for an available name ever.

I actually thing cutting the auctioning, forcing all names to be dropped, and giving everyone a chance would be a good thing.

I do think this would raise the fees like I said before, but that would only make each name more valuable to start with. It would also raise the risk for people who purchase names in bulk.

 

[Jasonn]

Remember the first quoted text from Archangel.

If ACE.com wasn't renewed, it should go into a standard deletion period like all domains and be dropped the same.

In other words - no pre-release, no registrar/registrar employee take over of names.. everything drops. No TDNAM, No Namejet, NoSnapNames :lala:

Will have the aforementioned domainer owner/aftermarket benefits... that is removing the bogus middleman.

if that happened registration costs would rise quite a bit. you are taking a huge chunk of profit away from registrars.

anyways, that is just a wet dream for some people who can't afford to participate in the drops.

as for the OP, I can see this helping some people who get caught at crappy registrars, that is if ICANN ever enforces anything about it.

 

[Archangel]

I welcome a price raise with open arms. If domains were more expensive, ppl would be more selective with registrations and the amount of crap portfolios would be little to none. Do you ever see ppl blow $100,000 at Snapnames on bad investments? Sure, you might see one every blue moon (flowers.mobi, anyone?) but ppl are selective with places like that because the price is so high.

if that happened registration costs would rise quite a bit. you are taking a huge chunk of profit away from registrars.

anyways, that is just a wet dream for some people who can't afford to participate in the drops.

as for the OP, I can see this helping some people who get caught at crappy registrars, that is if ICANN ever enforces anything about it.

 

[DU]

anyways, that is just a wet dream for some people who can't afford to participate in the drops.

I prefer to think of it as creating a situation where registrars can't take advantage of shady practices. You can take it into whatever gutter you want.

 

[Erdy]

Domain prices are not affected by whether or not registrars make some side money off of auctions. Prices are set by the registry who sells them the domain.
For instance with dot com the registry is verisign and they sell the domains to the registrars for $7.25. Registrars will add a small profit to this and sell it to you.

For instance internet.bs does not have expired auctions. You might say they are sending to snapnames. I doubt it. They have such a small market share they would not make any money at all.
Still internet.bs prices are cheaper than godaddy.

The owner of limit.com died. This can happen to any domain owner. That domain never made it to any auction. It is in somebody's private portfolio.

---------- Post added at 07:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:30 AM ----------

Imagine a support staff working in a registrar. He makes probably $25K a year. Now imagine there is a domain that is worth his 10 years salary. All he needs to do is wait 30 days after expiry, unlock the domain and get the transfer code. There is no mechanism that would prevent this from happening.

 

[Jasonn]

I prefer to think of it as creating a situation where registrars can't take advantage of shady practices. You can take it into whatever gutter you want.

I don't see how auctioning off names is shady. I like the expired auctions. It actually can prevent people from squatting on names (any tm holder can create a snapnames account, it doesn't take any tech knowledge). For example, the domain bulkbarn.com was bought by bulkbarn on snapnames. Its a great thing for the company to be able to do, instead of ending up in a domainers hands..

i know there are some shady practices but money rules everything and if you guys had the money to participate in the auctions, you would be. you just think if the drops were totally random, maybe, just maybe you'd score a great highly valuable .com for reg fee. this would never happpen. for every situation there are a group of people out there with a lot of money who could program something up to take you totally out of the senario.

 

[Erdy]

Jasonn,
Drops and auctions are good. I wish all domains were dropping and they were caught by the fastest dropcatcher. At least you would have a shot in the auction.

The way you think was correct until now. However it is not correct anymore because quality domains don't drop anymore. You might say, well yes they are not sold in pending delete stage but they are sold in pre-release stage.

That's not correct either. The pre-release is a filtered list. Quality expired domains are not sold at all. They are kept in private portfolios.

This trend has started within the last 6 months.

This is what happens:
domain expires > best are filtered and moved to private portfolio. The rest > goes to pre-release auction and if it is not sold > it drops and goes to pending delete auction

You don't know what is happening because there is no list of domains that have just reached the expiry date. There is no such list because the free auto renewal by the registry. You can't know if a domain is expired or not expired until 45 days are over. However by then it is already too late because it will be renewed and moved to a private portfolio. Let me explain this way: When a high quality domain expires nobody will even realise it has expired and is moved to a private portfolio, unless you were especially tracking that particular domain.

It is moved within the time that was given to the original owner to recover. The registrars use the recovery mechanism which was created for the original owner, to take over the domain in a sneaky way. In other words and original owner recovering his domain and the registrar moving the domain to its private portfolio both will look the same from the outside.