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Nameservers Changed Issues on Sav.com

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xmarthost

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My nameservers for all domains have been changed to ns1.all-harmless.domains and ns2.all-harmless.domains, and I am unable to change the DNS again. What could be the issue?

Also, a friend of mine is facing the same problem with over 600 domains. What's going on with sav.com?
 
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The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
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I hope @Bravo Mod Team @Echo Mod Team @Alfa Mod Team @Paul

Check the Account of this new User @CleanDNS, who was clearly introduced by @Nick R
And verify them, pls, after clarification from SAV, what is going on.
Nick is a verified representative of Sav.com and has vouched for @CleanDNS:

@CleanDNS is also now a verified representative of CleanDNS.com.

We hope that helps.
 
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@CleanDNS is also now a verified representative of CleanDNS.com.
That's only a small fraction of the concerns, but it helps. This is what you can reasonably do from your side.

Thanks, Bravo.

Further measures are beyond the reach of NamePros moderators, and are really up to Sav and CleanDNS.
 
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@CleanDNS is also now a verified representative of CleanDNS.com.
We hope that helps.
That was not my point, to be honest - so to keep it short: It does not help me. I never doubt that he is a representative, and copying and pasting the same message in two different Threads shows that the CTO of SAV does not really take the concerns of paying customers seriously.

1.
Hello All. We just wanted to jump in and comment on this thread real quick. Sav does not tolerate domain abuse and takes abuse reports very seriously. We recently disabled a number of customer accountโ€™s and their domains after receiving verifiable evidence of one or more domains engaged per our Domain Name Registration Agreement. A few accounts were re-enabled after the customer agreed to make changes but this was not the majority. While we will be improving the notifications sent out to customers with domains engaged in abuse we will take action on any accounts and domains involved in abuse to do our part to help continue to make the Internet a safer place each and every day.

2.
Hello All. We just wanted to jump in and comment on this thread real quick. Sav does not tolerate domain abuse and takes abuse reports very seriously. We recently disabled a number of customer accountโ€™s and their domains after receiving verifiable evidence of one or more domains engaged per our Domain Name Registration Agreement. A few accounts were re-enabled after the customer agreed to make changes but this was not the majority. While we will be improving the notifications sent out to customers with domains engaged in abuse we will take action on any accounts and domains involved in abuse to do our part to help continue to make the Internet a safer place each and every day.
https://www.namepros.com/threads/sav-com-security-issues-warning.1287251/post-9218748

But dear Bravo & others, we don't have to always share the same opinion - otherwise, life would be boring :)

Have a great day & thanks for responding.

Kind regards, Mustafa
 
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@CleanDNS

Are you owned by/part of constellix?
Mr Jeffrey Bedser is both the founder of iThreat, and co-founder of CleanDNS.

https://ithreat.com/ithreat-announces-executive-appointments/

The current COO of CleanDNS, Inc., Mr Chad Los Schumacher, was Team Lead at iThreat Cyber Group.

https://www.caseiq.com/resources/investigating-using-the-dark-web/

CLEANDNS and CYBERTOOLBELT are trademarks of iThreat Cyber Group, Inc.

https://trademarks.justia.com/888/86/cleandns-88886900.html
https://trademarks.justia.com/863/67/cybertoolbelt-86367635.html

https://opencorporates.com/companies/us_nj/0100799970

iThreat Headquarters:

6 Montgomery Village Ave, Ste. 610
Gaithersburg, MD 20879
USA
 
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You have to understand that iThreat and CleanDNS are already deeply rooted in the operations of our critical infrastructure. This demands great care and responsibility. Like, the same diligence we expect from ICANN SSAC and PTI.

The things that CleanDNS does may be essentially good, but they must remain aware of their great influence and responsibility, while continuing to take the position of individual domain registrants โ€”large and smallโ€” into account.

Particularly if you start using broad AI for abuse handling automation for major registrars and registries and it goes wrong.

Also, remember that iThreat is a large Internet intelligence company, and that they want to further expand their intelligence footprint in the future. Founded in 1997, iThreat has assisted hundreds of clients with thousands of Internet monitoring ops and investigations, including multiple successful multinational law enforcement operations.

The more 'fully managed' abuse handling contracts they can enter into with the CleanDNS product, the more information, signals, patterns and metadata they will be able to obtain about individuals, companies and [governmental] organizations worldwide. This may involve highly sensitive information, that will be combined with other intel sources for profiling and machine learning. Essential core functions of domain registrars and registries are completely being outsourced to this commercial, US based, third party, which will become increasingly influential by combining all the data it collects from everywhere.

A comparison with the recent global outage incident caused by CrowdStrike is not entirely valid, but there are certainly some similarities. I do want to make people aware of what can happen when companies in the cyber security industry become too influential. And that our society as a whole will become too dependent on these few influential companies, now armed with highly experimental AI mechanisms. A development that cannot easily be reversed, mainly because the CleanDNS product is marketed as a major cost saver for registrars and registries. But also because the technical knowledge on this subject will no longer be natively available at registrar/registry customers.

Given the way in which the COO of CleanDNS plans to handle Sav abuse tickets via DM here on this external forum, and that they do not even want to substantively address the essential points and concerns raised by this community that is also deeply rooted in the same Domain and DNS ecosystem, this doesn't bode well for the antenna that is needed to carefully and compliantly meet the high standards expected of this company. Especially when it comes to handling our sensitive data securely and responsibly.

Time for @ICA to step in. Let's start with ICA and then scale up from there.
 
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I also hope that I have been able to give @Chris Hydrick some more explanation as to why I said those things about DM. The context is hopefully clear now. I may have been a bit too blunt about this at first.
 
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You have to understand that iThreat and CleanDNS are already deeply rooted in the operations of our critical infrastructure. This demands great care and responsibility. Like, the same diligence we expect from ICANN SSAC and PTI.

The things that CleanDNS does may be essentially good, but they must remain aware of their great influence and responsibility, while continuing to take the position of individual domain registrants โ€”large and smallโ€” into account.

Particularly if you start using broad AI for abuse handling automation for major registrars and registries and it goes wrong.

Also, remember that iThreat is a large Internet intelligence company, and that they want to further expand their intelligence footprint in the future. Founded in 1997, iThreat has assisted hundreds of clients with thousands of Internet monitoring ops and investigations, including multiple successful multinational law enforcement operations.

The more 'fully managed' abuse handling contracts they can enter into with the CleanDNS product, the more information, signals, patterns and metadata they will be able to obtain about individuals, companies and [governmental] organizations worldwide. This may involve highly sensitive information, that will be combined with other intel sources for profiling and machine learning. Essential core functions of domain registrars and registries are completely being outsourced to this commercial, US based, third party, which will become increasingly influential by combining all the data it collects from everywhere.

A comparison with the recent global outage incident caused by CrowdStrike is not entirely valid, but there are certainly some similarities. I do want to make people aware of what can happen when companies in the cyber security industry become too influential. And that our society as a whole will become too dependent on these few influential companies, now armed with highly experimental AI mechanisms. A development that cannot easily be reversed, mainly because the CleanDNS product is marketed as a major cost saver for registrars and registries. But also because the technical knowledge on this subject will no longer be natively available at registrar/registry customers.

Given the way in which the COO of CleanDNS plans to handle Sav abuse tickets via DM here on this external forum, and that they do not even want to substantively address the essential points and concerns raised by this community that is also deeply rooted in the same Domain and DNS ecosystem, this doesn't bode well for the antenna that is needed to carefully and compliantly meet the high standards expected of this company. Especially when it comes to handling our sensitive data securely and responsibly.

Time for @ICA to step in. Let's start with ICA and then scale up from there.
Smash the thanks button, answer so well explained!
Itโ€™s simply written on their website that abusive findings are used to create patterns - obviously not individual data, but nevertheless thatโ€™s especially for registrars with millions of domains extremely sensitive to outsource a whole abuse decision making.
And you said it (at least when we have a common sense on that), correctly - the AI / ML is trained by data. Feed it with partially wrong data, this will evolve totally in the wrong direction and at the end hit the alarm button real quick. If you have then registrars who have completely outsourced their abuse handling, well dear COO, thatโ€™s a huge operational risk.

And who knows on which level the segregation of customers is being done, how many risk factors are implemented and so on.

Those things should be strictly regulated (if not already). Last but not least, GDPR etc. is mentioned but Iโ€™m not sure if the practical side of those ML tools is compliant with each country.

Kind regards
Mustafa
 
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Thanks @zotix

You are right. You cannot train the models only with the bad data. This is done with all the data. Such methods are not new in themselves, because this is also done with Intrusion Detection Systems (IDS) and Intrusion Prevention Systems (IPS). When we were still making such appliances, we did this very carefully. In the era where everything with ML and AI is 'hip' and makes your company more valuable (lots of hype in between), it becomes more difficult to stay in control of what is happening. Even more so if you rely on incorrect data to begin with, as seems to be the case with Sav registrant data. Anyway, they really should already know all this at CleanDNS. As is clear, you should not just rely on the flashy PR, but think further about all the consequences in the entire chain and for society as a whole. Even its stability.
 
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Today I conducted a small experiment. I picked a domain that I let expire a couple of years ago but was still visible in Account 1, even though it wasn't currently registered. I then logged into Account 2 and registered the same domain.

Immagine.jpg


After this, I went back to Account 1 and changed the nameservers. When I check Account 2, the change doesn't show up, so Account 2 has no clue the nameservers have been altered. However, the WHOIS record for the domain shows the nameserver changes successfully.

Immagine2.jpg


The question for the experts is: if Account 1 changes the DNS and uses it for malicious purposes, which account would be banned? Account 1, Account 2, or both?
 
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System feed with this nameserver โœ…

Thanks for this observation really strange tbh
 
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it's one of sav big bugs to leave names in panel forever. I reported it like 10 times to remove manually. last time was a month ago. hasn't happened since. I hope they fixed root of issue. however if u still have old names u will need to ask them to remove manually.
 
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it's one of sav big bugs to leave names in panel forever. I reported it like 10 times to remove manually. last time was a month ago. hasn't happened since. I hope they fixed root of issue. however if u still have old names u will need to ask them to remove manually.
Gosh...
 
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it's one of sav big bugs to leave names in panel forever. I reported it like 10 times to remove manually. last time was a month ago. hasn't happened since. I hope they fixed root of issue. however if u still have old names u will need to ask them to remove manually.

If I request it, they'll certainly do it manually, but we'll never know if the issue is resolved for the hundreds or thousands of other domains that are exposed to unauthorized changes...
 
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By the way, what an epic thread this is turning out to be.

>9K views and counting.
 
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By the way, what an epic thread this is turning out to be.

>9K views and counting.

true
they should kinda mix it and the other sav threads into main sav one no? else the poor u gonna have to update with links forever hehe
 
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true
they should kinda mix it and the other sav threads into main sav one no? else the poor u gonna have to update with links forever hehe
If there is one (1) company that knows how this works, it is iThreat.

They monitor everything.

That's why I'm even more surprised that they didn't start the honest dialogue with this community right at the beginning of this thread.
 
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Today I conducted a small experiment. I picked a domain that I let expire a couple of years ago but was still visible in Account 1, even though it wasn't currently registered. I then logged into Account 2 and registered the same domain.

Show attachment 260512

After this, I went back to Account 1 and changed the nameservers. When I check Account 2, the change doesn't show up, so Account 2 has no clue the nameservers have been altered. However, the WHOIS record for the domain shows the nameserver changes successfully.

Show attachment 260515

The question for the experts is: if Account 1 changes the DNS and uses it for malicious purposes, which account would be banned? Account 1, Account 2, or both?
So, let me get this straight.

Account 1 has an orphaned domain listed that has not been in the account for some period of time.

The same domain is also listed in Account 2. That account actually owns the domain.

However, Account 1 still has access to change the DNS settings.

That change doesn't even notify Account 2.

Orphaned listings are bad enough, but that is one of the most serious security flaws I have ever seen in the domain world.

Brad
 
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Isn't it interesting that the bad reviews put an actual name on them, while the random good review just says "Happy Customer".

Why is "Happy Customer" unwilling to put their name on the review? After all, they signed up in order to leave this one review.

Brad
 
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So, let me get this straight.

Account 1 has an orphaned domain listed that has not been in the account for some period of time.

The same domain is also listed in Account 2. That account actually owns the domain.

However, Account 1 still has access to change the DNS settings.

That change doesn't even notify Account 2.

Orphaned listings are bad enough, but that is one of the most serious security flaws I have ever seen in the domain world.

Brad

Correct, except that Account 1 not only has access to the DNS, but also to every other function such as seeing the current authorization code, so it could easily transfer the domain elsewhere. Or maybe Account 1 could put the domain on the marketplace for $1 and then buy it with another account, and Account 2 would probably never notice...
 
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