Michael Mann Scammed me out of $1000

[kev]

This is an absolute nightmare. Seems Ive been scammed again.

Details of Scammer

Michael Mann




Web Media Projects, Inc.,
440 E Pass Rd. Suite B
Gulfport, MS. 39507 USA

Website: www.webmediaprojects.com

Email: [email protected]

Tel: 601-213-0881
Toll-free: 866-496-2278
Fax: 601-326-2379

MSN: [email protected]
PayPal: [email protected]
His contact number: 228-216-6707

DigitalPoint Username : c0l0rad0
GetaFreelancer Username : c0l0rad0

I agreed a price of $3,000 for the development of a clone of King.com. He said that i could pay it in 3 stages at $1k each. This was back in October 2007 and he said it would take 2-3 months to complete. So i set deadline after deadline after deadline and he missed 11 in total and I started to get concerned. He maintained it was due to the complexity of the site and limited staff so i believed him. But when he missed the latest deadline, I sent an email asking where it was and he replied with:




then i searched on the web about him and came across this

http://www.thesqueakywheel.com/complaints/2007/NOV/complaint19828.cfm
http://www.thesqueakywheel.com/complaints/2008/FEB/complaint22448.cfm

so i questioned him on it and asked for a complete refund and he replied with


Can people on NP help me get my money back as this is a lot of money to a student.

Are the contact details listed above seem correct to you?

Thanks guys :tu:

 

[c0l0rad0]

Hope things go well in the end

Thanks.

Personally, I am prepared to make it right if we both adhere to the terms of the development agreement and I am left alone to do the work.

In the alternative, I have made an offer to anyone of the people who claim they can do a clone for a few hundred bucks to place an escrow and pay for it when they produce it - and then I will give it to Kevin (having paid for it).

Regards,
Michael Mann

 

[kev]

Nor did you mention that we hand coded several multiplayer games for you that are not available anywhere on the internet and that you also saw those.

I can honestly say I never saw the games that you were going to make for me. The essential game I needed was Pool and I never saw that.

Or, that we showed you a backend that is as sophisticated as they come and you also saw that.

No, show me the email that you sent about this because I can assure you Ive never seen a backend for this.

We are a Mississippi corporation in good standing (class C - public) and have been in business over 7 years. Strange that this all started maybe 6-7 months ago when we fired Jeff and filed a police report regarding the theft of our laptop.

Im not your only complainer. You seem to draw out a project and hope your customers forget about it. These clients of yours had the exact same problem as me. They wanted a project done and had to wait months and still didnt get anything. Then you say "kiss my ass" in each case. You seem to be a sweet talking con man and because Ive contacted the police and stood up to you, you seem to be running scared.

http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/282/RipOff0282554.htm
http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/308/RipOff0308121.htm

Like your project. You paid us a 1/3rd deposit, spread out over several weeks (presumably because of your partner)

No, I paid you $500 on 9th October 2007 and $500 on the 19th October...hardly several weeks.

You got an SOW, as promised, you saw a template, as promised and you saw custom coded multiplayer games, as promised.

Your SOW was hardly professional material
i remember it consisted of only a few lines and even that took you a few weeks to get round to.

I saw a template 1shuffle.net and I said it wasnt up to scratch. I was going to pay $3,000 and i didnt want a cheap rip-off. I never saw anything else.

In the couse of 3 months you sent me 72 emails (I have them all) and called me I don't know how many times to inquire about your project. Towards the end, yes, I started getting short with you. I even used unprofessional language in the end.

I have never once called you so that is a blatent lie. Can you honestly say hand on heart we have ever spoke? Come on mate...you need to be honest here if we are going to get anywhere.

Yes, I suspended work on your project after the 70th email and (seems like) 100th phone call. All you had paid was a deposit and before you even asked us for a refund or completion you filed a paypal complaint and a ripoffreport against us.

I never filed a paypal complaint! i paid back in October so the point I could have filed a complaint has passed months ago? Right?

You had our development terms before we began and you KNEW this was a deposit that paid you up to beta preview. That's all.

Beta Preview? Ive not seen a fully functional beta for my site. A beta site is a working model which was supposed to be branded around my name Zurm.com. Please post it on here for us all to see.

Now, I'm not saying I acted in the most professional of manners either. My temper got the best of me, which is not professional. For that, I am sorry.

Your conduct was far from satisfactory.
Here are the terms we agreed to


So. May 2008, why am I still waiting for a site agreed to be completed within 2 weeks back in October 2007?

Also, you sent this email on the 19th October 2007


So, if you were telling the truth, why was I still enquiring months later? The only reason I sent regular emails was because you never replied and never kept a promise. Would you say this was professional?

However, before you continue to slander me and make these people feel oh so sorry for the little boy caught by the big, bad wolf, please tell it like it was all the way. Not just the part most favorable to your lament.

Please dont call me a little boy. Im 19 and more of a professional than you.

While this "weinie roast" is somewhat interesting on a long night - you ended up being a problem before we suspended your project and, of course, like a child, you keep on being a problem.

So I ended up being a problem because I kept enquiring about a site which was months overdue? Im sure everyone on NP would do the same.

Hopefully, before a moderator bans me from here we can get a taker and I will pay to have your site completed.

If you can do this, we can maybe reach some sort of agreement.

 

[c0l0rad0]

Sorry, I hit "post" by mistake before I had all of the response done.

 

[kev]

Kevin,

That is simply NOT TRUE!

We have one of the slickest [b}hand coded[/b] pool games going with multiple ways to play (billiards, 8-ball) and with "call your pocket" enabled on the 8-ball.

You DID see it. You saw it, checkers (hand coded), dominoes (hand coded) and poker. All of these are true multiplayer games that use a server app we hand built. They all allow for real money or play money play and YOU DID SEE THEM.

Post a link to it then. And answer some of the questions Ive asked you.

 

[c0l0rad0]

Kevin,

That is simply NOT TRUE!

We have one of the slickest hand coded pool games going with multiple ways to play (billiards, 8-ball) and with "call your pocket" enabled on the 8-ball.

You DID see it. You saw it, checkers (hand coded), dominoes (hand coded) and poker. All of these are true multiplayer games that use a server app we hand built. They all allow for real money or play money play and YOU DID SEE THEM.

You saw a backend that manages users, manages money, allows you to set percentages, allows you to add or remove new games/old games and allows you to monitor all the money in and out of the gameroom.

Why do you claim to have never seen them?

Why do claim to have never talked to me on the telephone?

There is no-one other than an ex-employee using multiple login names ever written about me OTHER THAN NICK BURRETT who was ripped off by this very same ex-employee who has now STATED FOR THE RECORD ON RIPOFFREPORTS THAT HE HAS PAID NICK BACK. Nick is the only "REAL" person to ever complain about me and even though he has been paid back by the person who stole his money he is still maintaining his complaint (and Jeff posted PROOF that he repaid him).

You make a bad assumption that I am talking to you because of your threat to involve the police. It's almost laughable. As someone said a bit earlier in this thread, Mississippi had a "good old boy' system of justice and I can almost assure you that you DO NOT want to come to this county and make your claims. You would wind up losing much more than you claim you did.

In fact, since you think it's the police that is making me talk with you there is not much more else to say. Send them. See how far THAT get's you.

No, Kevin, you are NOT professional, at all. You claim you paid me right away. Do you forget that I had to ask you TWICE and you kept telling me it was your partner dragging his feet? Try and remember, Kevin, because I have the emails we exchanged.

Ok, so it took you 10 days and not several weeks to make the deposit. Not exactly according to our terms of development, was it?

Yes, I will swear on my daughters head that we talked by telephone, kevin. You KNOW we did. Enough said about that point.

Actually, no. A beta preview is HOSTED ON OUR SERVERS and is NOT branded with your logo and whatever else. A beta preview is designed for you to test the functions we are building into the site, as well as look at a BASIC template. Once the functions are approved and debugged then we build the site around them so that they are coded into the final template.

And, yes, you DID see a template that was quite adequate for the testing. Of course, you'll deny that our conversation (which we never had) was that at beta stage you'll tell us what all we need to change to make it to the delivery stage. Right?

Read stage two again, Kevin. Read it aloud since you seem to have lousy cognitive skills.

You are still waiting because we suspended your project for non payment and we advised you of that.

In addition, I personally told you that your incessant emails and demands and demanding nature would kill our work for you - and it did.

You ARE a little boy, Kevin, and you acted like one the entire time we worked for you. You whined and wheedled and threatened and demanded and on and on and on. Anyone looking at your earlier complaints filed against me would see that you haven't been waiting until May for answers. You had them LONG before this and you chose to jump on Jeffs bandwagon and malign me on ripoffreports and a few other places.

It is true that when you changed the nature of the job to true multiplayer gaming it increased our development time. When we started this you looked at gamesiteonline and was happy to go with flash games. Later, the multiplayer server versions came up and we hand coded them for you.

And, I stand by my statement - people on here talk about how easy and how cheaply they can make a king.com clone. Hell, I think I saw $80.00 at one time. I will pay into escrow up to $500 for release to ANYONE who can make a king.com clone for that amount with true server based multiplayer real and play money games. And, I will then give you the development and we'll be quits - even though you never paid us for the beta work.

So, there you have it. I can, and will, show the games to any disinterested third party on here as well as the backend, template and anything else we completed on your project before you tried to take back what you paid and defaulted on the second payment. We still have them all, Kevin. ALL OF THEM.

I will not deal with a child. Send me a man to deal with. Please.

Okay, so Michael Mann and Reuben Sutton are most likely the same guy. Reuben scammed me out of $300 with the promise we would be fixing bugs. He delivered nothing.

Watch out for this guy.

I have no idea who the hell you're talking about. But, of course, it's easy for you to accuse, right? You don't even know me or my company.

We run a Class-C, public corporation and have NEVER, I repeat, NEVER had to hide behind aliases or multiple user names (like some of my protagonists). I come right out as me and argue my side of the coin.

My name is Michael David Mann and I hide form no man - least of all in cyberspace. My god, man, get a life!

 

[kev]

Michael,

Please show me the games. You claim you have designed them so show everyone on Namepros you have designed them by posting a link to them.

Why do claim to have never talked to me on the telephone?

I find it shocking how you can lie about speaking on the phone. If I have, what is my personal number then?

No, Kevin, you are NOT professional, at all. You claim you paid me right away. Do you forget that I had to ask you TWICE and you kept telling me it was your partner dragging his feet? Try and remember, Kevin, because I have the emails we exchanged.

Do you forget I had to send 70 emails about my project, and I never once got a decent reply as to when my site would be completed? You said it would be delivered within 2 weeks (see previous screenshot with your terms) and I even believed it would be done up until March 2008.

Ok, so it took you 10 days and not several weeks to make the deposit. Not exactly according to our terms of development, was it?

This is the most hypocritical thing I have ever heard. According to our terms, you were required to design my site within 2 weeks. November 2007 it was supposed to be done.

Yes, I will swear on my daughters head that we talked by telephone, kevin. You KNOW we did. Enough said about that point.

Im actually starting to get tired of your lies. I have never spoke to you on the phone before and the fact you can swear on your daughters life makes me feel physically sick.

You ARE a little boy, Kevin, and you acted like one the entire time we worked for you.

I will not deal with a child. Send me a man to deal with. Please.

Well, I think Namepros will decide who the little boy is here. Maybe in your old age your starting to go a bit senile

So, there you have it. I can, and will, show the games to any disinterested third party on here as well as the backend, template and anything else we completed on your project before you tried to take back what you paid and defaulted on the second payment. We still have them all, Kevin. ALL OF THEM.

Why wont you show them to me? It was me you were designing the site for in the first place right?

 

[psalzmann]

Just show the work and let the drama end.

 

[bobdigital]

Ok, I will pay anyone on here the couple hundred that can supply multipayer server based games with a site for that amount. I'll place the money in escrow and pay it gladly on showing me that it is done.

this is my favorite part.
I had nothing but positive experiences from RAC, escrow is the key to holding these "scammers" feet to the fire.

I have conducted myself in a professional manner for years

Professional?
Negative, I do know you would not talk to me like that.

 

[Idees]

Professional? No professional talks to a customer like that!

It's funny how he restates your name every sentence.

 

[.tv]

Hi Michael ,
Show the games you dev'ed for Kev.

 

[c0l0rad0]

Yes, it may have been unprofessional for me to have spoken the way I did. It was in anger.

You have NO idea how long I listened to the ooze pouring out of this clients mouth before I blew up like I did.

However, in the interests of closing this debate (as it were), the games we developed are now on www.1shuffle.com , where they are being added to a new development we are doing for Casino A Lo Latino.

Since the games are multiplayer and server based and they use real and play money you must have an account (free) to view and/or play the games. also, the games take two people. There is no 'bot players, so you will want to have a second player to see and play the games.

Click a game, select your preference in wager, wait for the second player to join and viola. Play away.

If you click the banner on the bottom of the Casino A Lo Latino page (for Lucky Lokis casino) you'll see our test bed for flash games. That is where we tie the games to a backend and test them. There are several more games there - although not all of them are what we made for Kevin. The same login for Casino A Lo Latino works for the test bed also.

In the interest of NOT being called a liar (since anyone can show anyone games and claim their creation), I will take one representative from here that can call my toll-free office number on Monday and walk them through the back-end admin panel. This simply to show that we not only created them, but we control them through a back end we customized.

You will note, in an earlier post by Kevin, that I told him I would sell these to someone else so that we got paid for our work (since Kevin defaulted on his beta payment). That's why they are now in a development for Casino A Lo Latino.

Kevin's project is cancelled. Period. But, we did do the work.

There is games that were developed (including flash pool), a backend that is slick as snot, and we had a rudimenatry template (which is still up, but not used now).

That was all that was required under our terms of development.

Kevin makes much of the supposed delivery in November. That would have presumed that he paid on time and in accord with the agreement which he did not (the deposit). It was 10 days after the agreement. It also does not take into account the change from flash, single player games to more complex flash multiplayer games for cash and play money.

 

[c0l0rad0]

Professional?
Negative, I do know you would not talk to me like that.

Right. I'm sure you think you're somebody, but treat me like Kevin did and you would be treated the same as I treated him.

In Viet Nam we dealt with people like you all the time. Big, bad asses.

Come at me like Kevin did and I assure you - I would have talked to you exactly the same.

 

[Idees]

Well, at least your showing some level of communication.

 

[c0l0rad0]

Just show the work and let the drama end.

According to an earlier post displayed for you by Kevin, we are now using those games in another development called Casino A Lo Latino. (We want to be paid for our work, which Kevin didn't). It is hosted on our server at www.1shuffle.com

You need an account to actually see the games and/or play them. They are multiplayer real cash and play money games designed to not be viewable to a non-registered person. You also need two players to fire up the game server (except for poker).

Of note also is that by clicking the banner on the bottom for Lucky Loki's Casino you can view our test bed for multiplayer games.

In order to forestall any statements that we don't actually own these games, or this development, I will accept calls to our office toll-free number and walk anyone who asks through the backend. Also, if you wish to test the games, call me and I'll create a login for you (or, you can do it yourself although it takes email validation, being real money play). I will then play the games with you for demonstration.

We created a rudimentary template, custom coded 3 games (and supplied our poker software which sells for $6600 elsewhere), custom coded a backend that is superb, and made these available to Kevin.

He did not pay. His attitude was poor. We cancelled his project and resold the games. End of story.

Well, at least your showing some level of communication.

I am trying. I feel slighted and it needed to be addressed. That's the only reason I am in this thread.

 

[Keral_Patel]

He did not pay. His attitude was poor. We cancelled his project and resold the games. End of story.

Then why don't you refund his 1000 Dollars and end this drama forever.

Why you keep posting about your Vietnam adventures.

When you haven't delivered him the final product and when you are also gonna sell this product to someone else to get your investment out WHY are you not refunding this kid his 1000 dollars and finishing it up?

You say you have this and that company. I don't believe you have anything. Companies don't take away people's 1000 dollars. That are peanut games you are playing. Taking away someone's 1000 dollars and not giving him back.

 

[kev]

Michael,

I didnt cancel the project. You cancelled it. I was prepared to pay the full $3,000 for my site and you havent produced anything for me.

When someone sent me an email asking for me to google search your name and company, I requested a refund because of what I found. A simple search of "Michael Mann scam" and "WebMediaProjects.com Scam" yields some interesting results. Is it just by coincidence that you have 4 or 5 RipOffReports against you, aswell as many other complaints on various websites?

This is common for Mike D. Mann. What he does is once you start questioning him, he will call it abuse. Then he will cancel your project and keep the deposit. He has done this to all customers whom he could not find free or open source software to give them. The times his sales were good, are times when he buys software off a pirate... mostly at Digital Point, downloads it from a nulled website, or just takes open source software and replaces the company name and copyrights from the software with his own.

Also, Mike Mann had no employees in October 2007. I say this because I quit, his Indian developers quit for non payment (Salus Technologies), and his own nephew in law quit for non payment and extreme verbal abuse.

Mike will cuss you out, threaten you, insult you, then cancel your project and keep the deposit.

I advise someone to setup honey pots for him so he can be held accountable. I recommend that all ripped off by Mike Mann contact the Federal Trade Commision and FBI in the usa.

Unfortunately, he really screws over international customers, knowing that they will never take a legal stance.

The above was a comment made by your ex-employee and would explain everything.

If your such a big company as you claim, then refunding $1000 wouldnt be too much skin off your nose would it? And since you resold the games as you claim, that means I havent left you out of pocket but you have made me out of pocket to the tune of 4 figures. Would you say that was acceptable? Would anyone on Namepros say this was acceptable?

 

[.tv]

He did not pay. His attitude was poor. We cancelled his project and resold the games. End of story.

Hi,
The story did not end.

You got the funds from this kid, but sold the games to someone, ***YOU*** canceled his project, and now telling stories.

Refund his payment, or deliver the project(s). Do you think canceling a project but keeping the payment for that project is wise?

 

[SearchGuru1]

btw even if his attitude was "poor" as you say it was, he paid you to do a job. I know it might seem a little lowly for you to hear this since apparently you think your the top dog, but when you get paid from someone to do a job? They have a right to email you as many times as they want, or call you (if he really did call you).. YOU have their money. And any one of these people here would have done the same exact thing. Its called checking in and checking up. It doesnt necessarily mean he didnt trust you, obviously he did trust you somewhat considering he hired you. It means he gave you a good sum of money and wanted to make sure he was getting what you said he was getting and that you were actually doing the job.

I personally would be scared to death to KEEP someones money for a job that I didnt finish.

I think your main problem is that your really arrogant and dont understand the whole payer/payee concept. you think just because he chose you to do the work, that means you can treat him however you want. It just doesnt work that way, I dont care if your Bill Gates or the bum on the corner of fifth and first, you dont talk to people like that, especially people that GAVE you money to do a job, people that entrusted you to a certain point.

 

[sb225]

PLEASE take this jerk to court

court needs a lot of money to spend for lawers :blink:
better not to do business with this scammers or should use a new method
like escrow

 

[c0l0rad0]

The above was a comment made by your ex-employee and would explain everything.

Very true. That comment, as well as several others, was made by Jeff. He also stated not a week ago on the same place you saw this comment that he repaid the man he stole the money from.

Jeff, and his various screen names can say ANYTHING.

But that's not even at issue here.

We worked on this project a lot of long man-hours and I paid the developers who worked on it. Even though we have now used those games in another project it doesn't negate the cost to our company to have these games built (along with the template, admin panel, etc.).

No company, large or small, would refund a deposit when the work has been done, employees paid, man-hours invested, lost revenue from other projects that COULD have been done in that time, and intangible cost.

Sure, it's easy for these people to simply say 'give him a refund.' Hell, why not. It's not their money.

We did the work. We complied with the terms of the development agreement, and we owe no refund. Period.

You can call it a scam all day long, but that doesn't make you right. You defaulted on your payment to us - we did the work - and frankly, we are the ones scammed.

And, really folks, are you suggesting that a company will give out work, pay employees, comply with the agreement originally made, and then refund the money? Try that with any corporation you know of and see how far you get. They won't even take the time to try and explain, as I am doing.

I've shown the work. You all asked. I've explained we have too much invested to just give away the deposit (which is what a deposit is for, BTW). The deposit guarantees us that we don't work for nothing and that's just what this deposit did.

Kevin will NOT get his money back. He can take his complaints of how he got taken by just another coder to the shed, where it belongs.

I notice this is not his first time "being scammed." Seems to be a pattern. Somehow I have the feeling he gets what he deserves in these relationships.