LLLLSales.com - Feedback, Bugs, Suggestions, etc

[rpanella]

As many of you who follow the LLLL.com market probably know, the previous resource for LLLL sales data hasn't been updated in months.

In an effort to provide a useful resource to those interested in LLLL.com sales data, I have created a website called LLLLSales.com, at the request of many of the frequent posters in the sales and discussion thread. I have spent a good amount of the last week developing the site and adding sales data from the sales thread here.

Please feel free to try the site out and use this thread as a place to post feedback, bugs, or any suggestions in general for the website.

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Next: ShortNames (formerly LLLLSales)

 

[YAYnames.com]

Very nicely done!

Lean, mean and fast with a myriad of sorting options.

 

[abcproductions]

Very well done Russell. And cheers to Nem0 and the other contributors.

 

[ddchan]

Seems the namepros sales data are not that up to date
compared to other venues.
But all in all a great effort, thanks!

 

[Semtex]

Seems the namepros sales data are not that up to date
compared to other venues.
But all in all a great effort, thanks!

Namepros auction sales have been added.

Also, if names are ready to expire within 2-4 weeks, I am adding a reg fee to the final sale price. I feel that this will not skew any sales data. Since we do this with TDNX auctions, I don't see a problem with adding a reg fee to final sale prices on NP auctions. This could probably be incorporated into Ebay sales as well. (Nem0)

Russell if you have a problem with this, please tell me. I just don't see the reason in posting a $4 sale if the name is expiring in 10 days.

 

[ebatcave]

Great job! Well designed.

 

[rpanella]

Namepros auction sales have been added.

Also, if names are ready to expire within 2-4 weeks, I am adding a reg fee to the final sale price. I feel that this will not skew any sales data. Since we do this with TDNX auctions, I don't see a problem with adding a reg fee to final sale prices on NP auctions. This could probably be incorporated into Ebay sales as well. (Nem0)

Russell if you have a problem with this, please tell me. I just don't see the reason in posting a $4 sale if the name is expiring in 10 days.

Thanks for helping add the Namepros sales Jeremy. I think it makes sense to add reg fee to domains expiring right away, as it will make the numbers more comparable to other places like Snapnames, Namejet, and TDNAM which include a full year of reg.

 

[rpanella]

Actually, the more I think about it, I think for the sake of consistency, it might be best not to add reg fees to to Ebay and Namepros sales prices. It makes sense to add them to TDNAM sales since when someone buys a domain there they are charged the price + reg fee. This makes these prices comparable to other drop houses which give you a year of reg when you buy a domain.

As for venues such as Ebay and Namepros, where domains can be sold at any point in the renewal cycle, I think it would just be to complicated to add reg fee (or partial reg fees). First of all, all the reported sales over the last year from these venues (as far as I'm aware) do not factor in renewal times, so it would become fuzzy to do a comparison over time if we suddenly started adding it.

Also, where do you draw the line? If you do it at 30 days, then the same name expiring in 4 weeks vs 5 would be reported $8 higher. You could always prorate the reg fee according to the amount of time left, which would give you the best results, but that simply becomes too complicated to do by hand, and too inconsistent to maintain. I could perhaps look into automating something like this down the line (using expiration date of whois to add a renewal factor to all past prices from ebay and namepros), but that would also become fuzzy.

I think the simplest thing would just be to report what the domain actually sold for, and just keep in mind when viewing Ebay and Namepros sales, that they are affected by renewal dates (unlike drop house auctions) and therefore should be analyzed differently.

 

[Sameh]

Actually, the more I think about it, I think for the sake of consistency, it might be best not to add reg fees to to Ebay and Namepros sales prices. It makes sense to add them to TDNAM sales since when someone buys a domain there they are charged the price + reg fee. This makes these prices comparable to other drop houses which give you a year of reg when you buy a domain.

Agreed. adding reg fee to TDNAM sales only would be the best IMO.

I think the simplest thing would just be to report what the domain actually sold for, and just keep in mind when viewing Ebay and Namepros sales, that they are affected by renewal dates (unlike drop house auctions) and therefore should be analyzed differently.

Also agreed.

 

[Nem0]

Actually, the more I think about it, I think for the sake of consistency, it might be best not to add reg fees to to Ebay and Namepros sales prices. It makes sense to add them to TDNAM sales since when someone buys a domain there they are charged the price + reg fee. This makes these prices comparable to other drop houses which give you a year of reg when you buy a domain.

As for venues such as Ebay and Namepros, where domains can be sold at any point in the renewal cycle, I think it would just be to complicated to add reg fee (or partial reg fees). First of all, all the reported sales over the last year from these venues (as far as I'm aware) do not factor in renewal times, so it would become fuzzy to do a comparison over time if we suddenly started adding it.

Also, where do you draw the line? If you do it at 30 days, then the same name expiring in 4 weeks vs 5 would be reported $8 higher. You could always prorate the reg fee according to the amount of time left, which would give you the best results, but that simply becomes too complicated to do by hand, and too inconsistent to maintain. I could perhaps look into automating something like this down the line (using expiration date of whois to add a renewal factor to all past prices from ebay and namepros), but that would also become fuzzy.

I think the simplest thing would just be to report what the domain actually sold for, and just keep in mind when viewing Ebay and Namepros sales, that they are affected by renewal dates (unlike drop house auctions) and therefore should be analyzed differently.

In PM a few hours ago I brought up the same exact point with FC: where do you draw the line? 34 days isn't too much different than 30 or 31 days.

It is a good idea by FC though since the buyer of a domain that expires in 2 weeks is going to have to pay the renewal right away anyway, which adds to the price he just paid for the name.

Earlier I was ok with it either way; I can add renewal fees to eBay auctions if they expire within a month or can just post the sales like they are. But after reading Russell's points here, I think I tend to agree with not adding renewal fees to marketplace sales - like at Namepros or eBay - where a year expiry isn't automatically added to the sale (like Namejet, TDNAm, Snap etc).

For now I'll just post the sales like they are. Like Russell said, people who peruse the sales at LLLLsales.com can "keep in mind" that the sales (especially the lowest sales) were most likely affected by the quick expiry date.

Unrelated...

I just posted eBay sales for the day in the sales thread, and today had the occasional 'small bulk sale' auction included with all the single sales. It was this one:

Pack of 2 LLLL.com (IAUV & VYOE) sold for $51.00 ($25.50 ea)

So with bulk sales of names (at eBay or here at NP), when posting the sales at LLLLsales.com should we just not report them? Or should we average them out and report them that way? Such as:

IAUV $25.50
VYOE $25.50

I'm kind of against reporting them at all since one or more names in the 'bulk' will almost always be worth more than some other names in that same bulk of names. For instance I think IAUV is worth more than VYOE.

Would like to see what Russell and others think..

 

[rpanella]

Unrelated...

I just posted eBay sales for the day in the sales thread, and today had the occasional 'small bulk sale' auction included with all the single sales. It was this one:

Pack of 2 LLLL.com (IAUV & VYOE) sold for $51.00 ($25.50 ea)

So with bulk sales of names (at eBay or here at NP), when posting the sales at LLLLsales.com should we just not report them? Or should we average them out and report them that way? Such as:

IAUV $25.50
VYOE $25.50

I'm kind of against reporting them at all since one or more names in the 'bulk' will almost always be worth more than some other names in that same bulk of names. For instance I think IAUV is worth more than VYOE.

Would like to see what Russell and others think..

I think when it comes to bulk sales it really depends on the quality of the names involved. If there are big differences in quality (eg a quad premium and single premium for 200) its hard to say what price to attribute each. On the other hand a sale of 5 similar anti-premiums for $50, I don't really see a problem reporting them at $10 each, assuming you (as most likely the buyer) think the domains are of about equal value.

Completely unrelated, but I just got done adding a new right hand side bar that lists current LLLL.com auctions about to finish along with their bids and prices. Hopefully people will find this useful

 

[-REECE-]

That certainly seems like a fair way to go about doing it. Thanks again Russell, looks great! :tu:

I think when it comes to bulk sales it really depends on the quality of the names involved. If there are big differences in quality (eg a quad premium and single premium for 200) its hard to say what price to attribute each. On the other hand a sale of 5 similar anti-premiums for $50, I don't really see a problem reporting them at $10 each, assuming you (as most likely the buyer) think the domains are of about equal value.

Completely unrelated, but I just got done adding a new right hand side bar that lists current LLLL.com auctions about to finish along with their bids and prices. Hopefully people will find this useful

 

[rpanella]

Made a few small improvements to the site.

Now if you search for a certain "quality" of LLLL such as Quad Premium, all the current auctions shown along the right side will be domains of the same quality, for example quad premiums: http://www.llllsales.com/index.php?c=&n=&l1=&l2=&l3=&l4=&pr=&d=&v=&po=g&do=l&q=16&p=65535&o=0

 

[Sameh]

Made a few small improvements to the site.

Now if you search for a certain "quality" of LLLL such as Quad Premium, all the current auctions shown along the right side will be domains of the same quality, for example quad premiums: http://www.llllsales.com/index.php?c=&n=&l1=&l2=&l3=&l4=&pr=&d=&v=&po=g&do=l&q=16&p=65535&o=0

Nice update Russell ... You really doing a great job. :tu:

 

[rpanella]

Added a small new feature where the site will now show you when looking at sales data if the domain displayed is currently up auction and what the price is. Also added a checkbox on the left side to show only the sales data for domains currently "In Auction."

Let me know what you think or if you find this useful.

 

[Embrand]

I finally added the first chart to the LLLL.com Price Chart page on the site.

It plots the minimum price for a quad premium each month from Nov 2007 until now, based on all the sales data reported on the site. To calculate the "minimum price" I used the 5th percentile of all quad premium sales for each month. This means that 95% of all quad premiums sold for more than then minimum and 5% sold for less. This was done to filter out anomalies (outliers) to try to give a realistic view.

Let me know what you think.

Really cool! And I like the direction it is taking right now. Not a big improvement, but we might be on the right track.

 

[Nem0]

I finally added the first chart to the LLLL.com Price Chart page on the site.

It plots the minimum price for a quad premium each month from Nov 2007 until now, based on all the sales data reported on the site. To calculate the "minimum price" I used the 5th percentile of all quad premium sales for each month. This means that 95% of all quad premiums sold for more than then minimum and 5% sold for less. This was done to filter out anomalies (outliers) to try to give a realistic view.

Let me know what you think.

Awesome Russell, thanks again for all the work.

Would it be easy to make a chart for the low-end llll as well? Like maybe under $100..

Would be neat to see.

 

[rpanella]

It would be just as easy to chart the lower data, but the problem is that sales haven't been reported consistently enough to make it useful. Ebay is the only venue that allows sales under $20 (TDNAM opening bid plus renewal fee). This means the months with no ebay sales the minimum would be $20 while months with ebay sales reported would have the correct minimum somewhere under $20. The chart ends up showing jumps when no ebay sales were reported so its no very accurate.

Quad premiums were the one area with pretty consistently reported sales, so the data is pretty representative of the true price trends.

 

[rpanella]

Sedo and Bido sales are now automatically added to the site. Also, I have added Bido auctions for LLLL.coms to the auction column on the right side.

 

[fastadam]

First off, let me say that I am a huge fan of LLLLSales.com -- you have done a bang-up job (that's good!) and I use it all the time.

I am concerned that quite a number of the larger sales that closed (on Sedo especially) were in Euros rather than dollars, and yet the sales price listed does not reflect the difference in currency valuation, but assumes all sales were completed in dollars.

I recognize that looking up the exchange rate and doing the calculations would cause those who submit extra time (and extra work!) but it would drastically change some of the figures and shift price averages up (IMO).

Any thoughts about what to do going forward? Or fixing the past entries?

Thanks again for all of your hard work...

 

[rpanella]

All the Sedo sales that are automatically added to the site are converted from any foreign currency to USD based on current exchange rates. As far as sales submitted by contributors, these also were converted as far as I know.

Are there any specific examples you can point out?

 

[fastadam]

Good to know the automatic entries are converted...

I noticed it when I was researching some domains a couple of weeks ago. I think I can probably figure out what domain(s) I had found that were unconverted -- I will try to send you some examples by PM.

I guess it would be next to impossible to figure out which of the manually submitted domains from Sedo hadn't been converted without doing a BUNCH of fact-checking -- more than the reconciliation in posted sale prices could make up for.

Averaged out, it probably doesn't make a big difference, one way or the other. I just know that for the domain I looked up, the difference was close to $1200 -- enough that I noticed it immediately.

______________

On a slightly different subject : Would it be possible to make the list of upcoming auctions longer without changing the aesthetics? (A scroll window or "more" click-through perhaps)

Some days when one of the venues is particularly busy, it is hard to see what's up on the block for the day.

Thanks again Russell!

 

[Nem0]

Awesome, great job Russell

 

[Nem0]

I've updated the site to pull Godaddy sales data again after they made a change to their system months ago, and will hopefully be adding Flippa and possibly Dropcatch soon.

I've also added an option to filter sales (and current auctions) by Chinese Premium (no aeiouv) since many people seem to be interested in that category currently.

I hope you continue to find the site useful!

Good idea on the Chi Premium filter. And nice to see GD data being added again.

Might I suggest, in your Price Charts link, to include Chinese Premium minimum price as well? As they seemed to have overtaken even western quad premium minimum prices, I think that would be a great addition.

 

[rpanella]

You could add the "r" in the "Seach" button

Haha! Good catch, that typo must have been there since the site launched in early 2009 and apparently nobody noticed til now. Thanks.

 

[FPForum]

Site looks great man! Let me know if you'd be interested in exchanging links