LLLL.com Floor Price Project - #MyPitch

[VURG]

This is my pitch.

I am pitching the idea that the LLLL.com investor community on Namepros work together to develop a business model protocol that I call the #CatchEngineProtocol. I believe that the Namepros forum format is sufficient to build the protocol around. The objective is for a LLLL.com thread to have a continuous stream of LLLL.com buyers (Who I call the Anchors) who have a steady budget to catch all the LLLL.com that need to be liquidated by sellers. This means that we can establish a continuous public floor price for LLLL.com in the same way that the share market establishes a continuous floor price for shares. This floor price system should establish greater liquidity for the LLLL.com market. I am convinced that there is a strong enough demand for LLLL.com to have a continuous floor price for LLLL.com sellers to know how much to sell their domain collection at any point. This would cement a degree of liquidity to LLLL.com domains and would attract new investors into the LLLL.com market.

The focus is by refining the protocol so that buyers and sellers know how to navigate the thread and so they can know at any point in time how to sell their domains and what the current price for their domains are. By proving this proof of concept with the LLLL.com domains, other domain investor groups can use the experience to develop models for other domain classification groups. I am suggesting the LLLL.com investor community to develop this proof of concept first.

At this point in time, I think a core community needs to be established to see if there is enough support in Namepros to launch this. I can't afford to be an anchor and the system doesn't work with a strong enough #AnchorGroup and so I think that this discussion needs to attract a significant core group. I also don't want to be a moderator of this. I can pitch the model and explain details about the model but some moderation may be needed.

 

[VadimK]

This is my pitch.

I am pitching the idea that the LLLL.com investor community on Namepros work together to develop a business model protocol that I call the #CatchEngineProtocol. I believe that the Namepros forum format is sufficient to build the protocol around. The objective is for a LLLL.com thread to have a continuous stream of LLLL.com buyers (Who I call the Anchors) who have a steady budget to catch all the LLLL.com that need to be liquidated by sellers. This means that we can establish a continuous public floor price for LLLL.com in the same way that the share market establishes a continuous floor price for shares. This floor price system should establish greater liquidity for the LLLL.com market. I am convinced that there is a strong enough demand for LLLL.com to have a continuous floor price for LLLL.com sellers to know how much to sell their domain collection at any point. This would cement a degree of liquidity to LLLL.com domains and would attract new investors into the LLLL.com market.

The focus is by refining the protocol so that buyers and sellers know how to navigate the thread and so they can know at any point in time how to sell their domains and what the current price for their domains are. By proving this proof of concept with the LLLL.com domains, other domain investor groups can use the experience to develop models for other domain classification groups. I am suggesting the LLLL.com investor community to develop this proof of concept first.

At this point in time, I think a core community needs to be established to see if there is enough support in Namepros to launch this. I can't afford to be an anchor and the system doesn't work with a strong enough #AnchorGroup and so I think that this discussion needs to attract a significant core group. I also don't want to be a moderator of this. I can pitch the model and explain details about the model but some moderation may be needed.

Cartel monopoly? Won't work, sorry.

First, LLLLs are too different to set a floor price (unlike stocks). No one would ever agree on it.
Second, the flow is not constant. There are not that many LLLL in reality - especially not many available to buy and sell. So we end up with a situation where there are too many LLLL to set a floor price, but too few to create steady flow.
Third, who would be the anchors? Like who would take the obligation to buy constantly and why would they do that?

And generally (regardless of the idea), the whole ''members, let's do something together'' concept on NamePros is doomed unfortunately - everyone is way too different, with polar-opposite views on pretty much everything...

 

[Eric Lyon]

I'm going to tap @robosapien into the ring for this conversation regarding 4-letter .com's, as they appear to have a solid grasp on acquiring a very large portfolio of them for wholesale pricing and liquidating for retail.

If anyone was going to have an opinion on a JV (Joint Venture) regarding 4-letter .com's it would probably be them.

What say you @robosapien ?

 

[Bravo Mod Team]

https://shortnames.com/llll/sales

 

[forge]

And you're totally ignoring end user demand, the most important market?

Sorry, but this idea can't be taken seriously.

 

[bmugford]

You could probably spend a few million dollars and buy all the sub $1000 LLLL.com on the market, which would limit supply.

For instance, on SEDO there are 3,945 LLLL.com listed for $1K or below.

If the average price is $500, that's under $2 million.

However, the root issue is there is limited demand for low quality LLLL.com even if the supply is limited.

Brad

 

[VURG]

My focus was to start the discussion with a cheeky price. I am trying to wake up people to the benefits of a public lowballing auction system to secure stable floor prices. Hence, I want to start the discussion around a $50 price point for low grade LLLL.com. I think some Anchors could be found with prices that low. Is that a good starting point or does it need to go lower?

 

[Eric Lyon]

My focus was to start the discussion with a cheeky price. I am trying to wake up people to the benefits of a public lowballing auction system to secure stable floor prices. Hence, I want to start the discussion around a $50 price point for low grade LLLL.com. I think some Anchors could be found with prices that low. Is that a good starting point or does it need to go lower?

People start $1 auctions all the time (even for 4-Letter .com's) with the known risk of it selling below the current floor value for said assets (at a loss) with the least amount of demand that floats between $80 to $170 for resellers (Depending on letter-combinations).

Higher demand with better combinations, repeating letters, common acronyms, pronounceable, dictionary-words, etc... will far exceed that reseller floor value.

A few years ago I grabbed a bunch for $50 a pop in a bulk batch, but you probably won't find even the worst letters that cheap anymore (Hinse the sliding $80 to $170 wholesale scale).

@robosapien probably has a better handle on the current wholesale range and can either confirm or correct my sliding scale. The above is just from what I've been observing the last couple years.

in short: Starting a 4-letter auction with an opening bid of $50 is reasonable for most and will probably still get some traction to reach or exceed the floor value scale, but again, there's always a risk with a low-ball start auction that an asset will sell for lower than the floor guestimate.

 

[VURG]

in short: Starting a 4-letter auction with an opening bid of $50 is reasonable for most and will probably still get some traction to reach or exceed the floor value scale, but again, there's always a risk with a low-ball start auction that an asset will sell for lower than the floor guestimate.

Show attachment 290919

Just to clarify, I am not trying to start an auction. I am trying to develop a decentralised protocol that can be used for one thread where many buyers and many sellers use the thread at the same time. The goal is to have a continuous floor price existing on the thread so that anyone who knows what the floor price is can quickly liquidate their domains. This is where I am trying to grow the #RapidFlipperIndustry so flippers can focus on hunting for underpriced LLLL.com and liquidate them quickly on the #LLLL.comCatch thread.

It is a reverse auction system where buyers are bidding on LLLL.com prices before the LLLL.com are available for sale.

Thank you for sharing your intelligence on LLLL.com pricing. I am trying to raise awareness that for Anchors to learn the skill of catching to buy LLLL.com, (Assuming that enough support of my business model gets it off the ground) they have a good chance of getting LLLL.com at lower prices than LLLL.com auctions as the opportunity to rapidly sell LLLL.com for liquidators is more appealing than the waiting process of running auctions.

Based on your numbers, maybe $70 for an individual LLLL.com price and $50 for bulk sales may be more appropriate.

 

[Eric Lyon]

Okay, Let's discuss it...

Just to clarify, I am not trying to start an auction. I am trying to develop a decentralised protocol that can be used for one thread where many buyers and many sellers use the thread at the same time. The goal is to have a continuous floor price existing on the thread so that anyone who knows what the floor price is can quickly liquidate their domains. This is where I am trying to grow the #RapidFlipperIndustry so flippers can focus on hunting for underpriced LLLL.com and liquidate them quickly on the #LLLL.comCatch thread.

Okay, so, a dedicated thread for liquidating 4-letter .com domains...
That would probably have to be located in the marketplace somewhere and not in a discussion section. I don't think moderators would allow a sales thread outside the marketplace. Well, maybe if it was a paid advertisement, but then, you would need to inquire about what something like that would cost, officially. You could inquire about advertising in the NamePros Advertising forum here: https://www.namepros.com/forums/-advertising-on-namepros.186/

It is a reverse auction system where buyers are bidding on LLLL.com prices before the LLLL.com are available for sale.

Okay, a reverse auction might be interesting, but it might be hard to follow multiple dutch/reverse auctions in a single thread, especially if there are several running simultaneously, which then kills the dedicated thread idea.

Interestingly enough, NamePros does already have a dutch/reverse auction format outlined here: https://www.namepros.com/threads/domain-auctions-guide.861616/#section-010500

Maybe a dedicated thread in the marketplace to discuss and liquidate (Fixed Price) 4-letter domains and then individual dutch/reverse auctions that could be referenced in that dedicated thread in the marketplace, but managed by the sellers independently, in the auction section?

Thank you for sharing your intelligence on LLLL.com pricing. I am trying to raise awareness that for Anchors to learn the skill of catching to buy LLLL.com, (Assuming that enough support of my business model gets it off the ground) they have a good chance of getting LLLL.com at lower prices than LLLL.com auctions as the opportunity to rapidly sell LLLL.com for liquidators is more appealing than the waiting process of running auctions.

Based on your numbers, maybe $70 for an individual LLLL.com price and $50 for bulk sales may be more appropriate.

Most members are acquiring their 4-letters at floor-value or whole sale pricing within that sliding scale range I mentioned already, so it would be quite rare for them to liquidate for less than their own investment cost or at a break even point. It would probably require a motivational catalyst in their life, like financial hardship, behind on rent, debt going to collections, etc... in order to liquidate at a loss.

Alternately, someone looking to exit the industry and liquidate their entire portfolio, just to recoup some of their investment costs before leaving completely and never buying another domain, might be interested.

With the above in mind, I'm not sure how well your idea will catch on. Especially, with the majority of members looking to find end users willing to pay retail, rather than chancing a reverse/dutch auction loss.

Granted, there's lots of great floor-value deals to be found on NamePros for various niches (Even 4-Letter .com's), but I'm not convinced that there would be enough demand to drive a dedicated dutch/reverse auction thread specifically for 4-letter .com's.

Running individual dutch/reverse auction listings for single or bulk portfolios just seems like the easiest route to take for 4-Letter .com holders thinking about liquidating, rather than having to take an extra step to talk about it first in thread A, before listing it in thread B.


Question for you:
So, I have to ask, where are you thinking the bulk 4-letter sellers will come from, outside the financial hardship or exiting the industry scope, to get the pricing for 4-letter .com's below floor-value for everyone to get such a great deal on them?

 

[forge]

Secrets

 

[VURG]

Where would sales come from? People like me who have bigger LLLL.com portfolios than me. I prefer to drop names than sell them because I value my time more than the rigour of selling names. If I had a place to go where I knew what price I would get by selling instantly, I would be less likely to drop my names. (#TheShySellers)

I also think that bringing more stability to domain names by making more solid liquidation protocols and services makes domain names more attractive to superannuation fund managers. Having an instant sell now price for the share market is one of the features of the share market that makes shares as appealing investments. By stabilising floor prices for domain names there is the opportunity for new investors who care more about liquidity than end-user sale prices because they are long game players.

The vagueness in domain name floor prices presents a liquidity problem for domain names that keeps shy whales out of the picture.

Just a pointer, when I said reverse auction, I mean reverse by sellers offer before the domains are available to sell. This is my lingo. I don't want to confuse with the general meaning of the term.

 

[Eric Lyon]

Secrets

 

[Eric Lyon]

Where would sales come from? People like me. I prefer to drop names than sell them because I value my time more than the rigour of selling names. If I had a place to go where I knew what price I would get by selling instantly, I would be less likely to drop my names.

You drop 4-letter .com's?

I also think that bringing more stability to domain names by making more solid liquidation protocols and services makes domain names more attractive to superannuation fund managers. Having an instant sell now price for the share market is one of the features of the share market that makes shares as appealing investments. By stabilising floor prices for domain names there is the opportunity for new investors who care more about liquidity than end-user sale prices because they are long game players.

The vagueness in domain name floor prices presents a liquidity problem for domain names that keeps shy whales out of the picture.

Wait.... by "Feature of a share market that makes shares appealing", are you talking fractional domain shares now? Where potentially 10 people combine their funds to acquire and resell 4-letter .com's?

I'm not sure how that would play into the overall dutch/reverse liquidation auction idea that appears to be for less than floor value to get a good deal. Maybe if the shares were acquiring the 4-letter and then reselling at retail, but again, we go back to finding the demand in liquidating enough 4-letters and who's going to be letting them go for below floor value.

 

[forge]

You drop 4-letter .com's?

Heh, good question!

 

[VURG]

who's going to be letting them go for below floor value.

Show attachment 290929

My premise is that there is a lack of clarity on what the LLLL.com floor price is and that is the market failure that my business model aims to solve. The system stabilises on the market floor price and reduces the floor price volatility that we live with today.

In terms of comparisons to share market, I am referencing to the multi-trillion dollar market maker systems of the share market. I am talking about a decentralised market maker protocol that works for the domain name community. I like the name #CatchEngine. Not talking about fractional domain name shares.

 

[4L.com]

@robosapien probably has a better handle on the current wholesale range and can either confirm or correct my sliding scale. The above is just from what I've been observing the last couple years.

in short: Starting a 4-letter auction with an opening bid of $50 is reasonable for most and will probably still get some traction to reach or exceed the floor value scale, but again, there's always a risk with a low-ball start auction that an asset will sell for lower than the floor guestimate.

As many people know, I buy domains only in groups and for fixed prices. I usually buy them through middlemen on forums. These middlemen first buy the domains themselves and then resell them to me.

As already mentioned, for 4-letter domains things like abbreviations, repeated letters, and similar details can matter. If we talk about random letters, for a price of 100 USD I receive a very large number of offers to buy domains with the letters J or Q. For a price of 125 USD, I receive many offers for domains with the letters U, V, W, X, Y, Z. We are talking about hundreds of domains per month.

This means that sellers of these domains get less than 100 or 125 USD (~80-85 ... 100-110), because the middlemen also keep part of the money. At the moment, I do not buy such domains at all.

At the same time, I tried to take part in expired domain auctions on GoDaddy and Dynadot. I placed bids for similar domains at exactly the same prices that I pay to middlemen. In about 95% of cases, I always lost. Someone always placed a higher bid on these domains. This is based on hundreds of attempts.

Because of this, I do not understand why my bids are regularly outbid, even though there are hundreds or thousands of similar domains that owners are ready to sell for an even lower price.

Maybe they use stolen credit cards for bidding and do not care about the price. Or maybe sellers who are ready to sell hundreds of domains to me through middlemen at lower prices need to receive payment in some special way. Most of these offers seem to come from China, judging by the registrars and name servers. Maybe this is a way for them to move money out of the country without traces. I do not know, and honestly, I was never really interested in their motives.

 

[VURG]

As many people know, I buy domains only in groups and for fixed prices. I usually buy them through middlemen on forums. These middlemen first buy the domains themselves and then resell them to me.

As already mentioned, for 4-letter domains things like abbreviations, repeated letters, and similar details can matter. If we talk about random letters, for a price of 100 USD I receive a very large number of offers to buy domains with the letters J or Q. For a price of 125 USD, I receive many offers for domains with the letters U, V, W, X, Y, Z. We are talking about hundreds of domains per month.

This means that sellers of these domains get less than 100 or 125 USD (~80-85 ... 100-110), because the middlemen also keep part of the money. At the moment, I do not buy such domains at all.

At the same time, I tried to take part in expired domain auctions on GoDaddy and Dynadot. I placed bids for similar domains at exactly the same prices that I pay to middlemen. In about 95% of cases, I always lost. Someone always placed a higher bid on these domains. This is based on hundreds of attempts.

Because of this, I do not understand why my bids are regularly outbid, even though there are hundreds or thousands of similar domains that owners are ready to sell for an even lower price.

Maybe they use stolen credit cards for bidding and do not care about the price. Or maybe sellers who are ready to sell hundreds of domains to me through middlemen at lower prices need to receive payment in some special way. Most of these offers seem to come from China, judging by the registrars and name servers. Maybe this is a way for them to move money out of the country without traces. I do not know, and honestly, I was never really interested in their motives.

Hi @robosapien

Thank you for contributing your intelligence to my thread. I greatly appreciate your insight. It is my intension to give you a short reply and give a more in depth response on Monday.

Firstly - I have pitched the potential of developing a protocol to use the Namepros forum as a place to develop this business model. There are strengths and weaknesses to this idea. I have approached the idea that Namepros is a good #ProofOfConcept environment but my business model may be more secure if implemented through a website or app. I don't have the resources to build something at this stage.

Secondly - This is a scalable model. LLLL.com is a testing niche market for the model but the aim is to prove the concept so that I can try to build a unicorn with my team. As a domainer I am excited for what this can do to strengthen domaining but I am also very excited about what it can do outside domain names.

Thirdly - I have been working on business models for 18+ years. There has been a lot of thought and planning before I started this thread.

Lastly - The focus is to develop a system that looks after buyers. When the bear markets come, it is the floor price buyers who are the shock absorbers of the markets and my model is focused on protecting the strength of floor prices. That is why I call the floor price buyers the anchors of the market.

I will give more depth on Monday.

 

[Hashim]

https://shortnames.com/llll/sales

Just a heads up that this data doesn't include Dropcatch data where a lot of 4Ls are auctioned, such as my Ocay.com purchase a few months ago. Last reported Dropcatch sale seems to be from January 2024.

 

[Eric Lyon]

As many people know, I buy domains only in groups and for fixed prices. I usually buy them through middlemen on forums. These middlemen first buy the domains themselves and then resell them to me.

As already mentioned, for 4-letter domains things like abbreviations, repeated letters, and similar details can matter. If we talk about random letters, for a price of 100 USD I receive a very large number of offers to buy domains with the letters J or Q. For a price of 125 USD, I receive many offers for domains with the letters U, V, W, X, Y, Z. We are talking about hundreds of domains per month.

This means that sellers of these domains get less than 100 or 125 USD (~80-85 ... 100-110), because the middlemen also keep part of the money. At the moment, I do not buy such domains at all.

At the same time, I tried to take part in expired domain auctions on GoDaddy and Dynadot. I placed bids for similar domains at exactly the same prices that I pay to middlemen. In about 95% of cases, I always lost. Someone always placed a higher bid on these domains. This is based on hundreds of attempts.

Because of this, I do not understand why my bids are regularly outbid, even though there are hundreds or thousands of similar domains that owners are ready to sell for an even lower price.

Maybe they use stolen credit cards for bidding and do not care about the price. Or maybe sellers who are ready to sell hundreds of domains to me through middlemen at lower prices need to receive payment in some special way. Most of these offers seem to come from China, judging by the registrars and name servers. Maybe this is a way for them to move money out of the country without traces. I do not know, and honestly, I was never really interested in their motives.

Thanks for the added insights...