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Libra domains. Fingers crossed !!

Labeled as discuss in Niche Domain Discussion started by Swag tikka, Jul 6, 2019.

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  1. jberryhill

    jberryhill Top Member John Berryhill, Ph.d., Esq. VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I find that particularly amusing. That's why my doctorate has nothing to do with law.

    It's painfully obvious from the steps the Libra Association (with an address in a shared work rental space no less) has already taken, that they intend to control and/license who may use the term.

    There are plenty of precedents for this sort of thing such as, for example, standards organizations that license certification of the goods and services of others which have been certified to comply with the standards.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
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  2. Internet.Domains

    Internet.Domains Top Member VIP

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    It wasn't meant to offend so I am glad you find it amusing.:xf.smile:
     
  3. NameSellingcom

    NameSellingcom Established Member

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    You're asking for trouble trying to sell Libra domains.
     
  4. artstar

    artstar Restricted

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    its obvious theres a tm issue with Libracoinage for example but if you reg LibraEmpowers.com which i have btw, it can simply mean that the astrology sign libra empowers. how can they prove a tm issue otherwise?

    imo any generic word used with libra not associated with fb libra is safe
     
  5. jberryhill

    jberryhill Top Member John Berryhill, Ph.d., Esq. VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Quite obviously, the Libra Association's actions, in pursuing a submarine application in Turkmenistan to be used as a priority application in other jurisdictions, suggest that their opinion differs from yours.

    So that leaves us with the job of deciding whether you know their plans better than they do.
     
  6. Internet.Domains

    Internet.Domains Top Member VIP

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    What they say and what they do are two different actions. If their plans were known, understood, and trusted they wouldn't be called to testify before U.S. Congress and other global organizations.
     
  7. Internet.Domains

    Internet.Domains Top Member VIP

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    To another point, the TM application is intended to control and is evidence of. Governments and lawmakers have expressed concerns over the possible controlled monopoly created through Libra by the Libra Association network. It is within reason to suggest that the Trademark application hurts the credibility and actions of the Libra Association more than it helps. For that reason, I remain unconvinced the Libra Association will continue to pursue the TM as they continue to get ensnarled into conflicting issues.

    Regardless, there is lots to be sorted out before domain investors, that invest in Libra domains, are labeled anything other than speculators.
     
  8. Rory Ivey

    Rory Ivey Top Member VIP

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    Libra already has different trademarks in different classes.
     
  9. jberryhill

    jberryhill Top Member John Berryhill, Ph.d., Esq. VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Because it was registered within days of Facebook’s announcement, isn’t used for any purpose having to do with astrology, and is simply offered for sale.

    So, obviously, someone thought, on June 20th of this year, that a domain with Libra in it might have value. Golly, what happened in June 2019 that could give someone that idea?

    Oh, and, get this. The registrant then posted the domain name on an Internet forum in a thread discussing Libra domains!

    And not just that. Let’s take a look at what this person DIDN’T do. Does this person have LeoEmpowers? ScorpioEmpowers? CapricornEmpowers?

    No. Just LibraEmpowers, and just registered after a ton of media frenzy over a proposed Facebook launch.

    The reason for registering that domain name is completely transparent.

    Again, you know how little children think they can “hide” by covering their face with their hands? That’s what a lot of domainers look like when they engage in silly rationalizations.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
  10. artstar

    artstar Restricted

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    really? so r u speaking from experience as a tm expert or simply speculating? sounds like some of the data being thrown around here is made up to me in some aspects. spitballing its called.
     
  11. jberryhill

    jberryhill Top Member John Berryhill, Ph.d., Esq. VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Is that a joke of some kind? Do you think I can somehow not speak from experience as an expert?

    No, nobody is going to think that someone who registered LibraEmpowers, Libraology, and LibraMobilePayments in June 2019 did so because of anything having to do with astrology.
     
  12. artstar

    artstar Restricted

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    whatever bud u r the man
     
  13. artstar

    artstar Restricted

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    btw just because a domain is regged at a certain point in time does not mean one thing has to do with another. in your mind maybe but in law u cannot prove one way or the other and its not proper evidence as intent to circumnavigate a tm issue. so what of fb libra news was released at the same time as someone regs alibra astrology related domain.

    u r simply speculating on this issue and is not an argument in law. its your assumption so dont come across like u r the tm expert on here as u not even tho u have life experience.

    and btw buddy NO thats no joke!
     
  14. Rory Ivey

    Rory Ivey Top Member VIP

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    Firstly, are you are acting on the behalf of facebook and the libra association?
    Are you saying they won't allow developers to use their platform and name for approved projects? Some already built and being built using the name libra/openly.

    They may protect against misuse and scams, but we have no evidence that they won't allow legitimate use. They may even encourage it.

    But only time will tell. If facebook decides to ban all libra names from use then folks can drop their handregs. If facebook chooses to allow/approve innovations and development using their platform and name, then the names will be highly valuable.

    Facebook and the Libra association will have the say into whats allowed.

    Everyone who is honest registered the names knowing the risk and the rewards. Knowing they may lose all the names or gain if it goes in their favor. Nothing is hidden.

    I can't speak for anyone who pretends to reg the names for astrological purposes lol, but I won't jump to conclusions either about what facebook will allow and not allow. They could easily put in place a platform for such developments and a means of approval.
     
  15. Internet.Domains

    Internet.Domains Top Member VIP

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    I will add, in favor of your point, that the lead engineer of Libra has already promoted and suggested developed websites, using the term Libra, by 3rd party developers. This evidence should not go unnoticed.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
  16. jberryhill

    jberryhill Top Member John Berryhill, Ph.d., Esq. VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Are you accusing me of unethically failing to disclose an interest in the matter?

    I would be required to disclose that I was working for them.

    But the question is really kind of silly from a broader perspective. If I was working for Facebook/Libra and I was telling people that these names may very well be problematic for obvious reasons, then that would certainly answer the question of what their enforcement plans are, now wouldn’t it.

    You can go ahead and believe some anonymous person egging you on with false statements like “it’s only for tax services”. I just thought I’d address that ridiculous point.

    You can believe whatever suits you. I have explained, on the basis of having represented domain registrants in literally hundreds of domain disputes over nearly two decades, what things a UDRP panel would consider significant here.

    Have a good weekend and enjoy the rest of the thread. Ciao.
     
  17. artstar

    artstar Restricted

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    meanwhile regging libra domains constantly!
     
  18. Rory Ivey

    Rory Ivey Top Member VIP

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    You really took that literally?

    You really thought i was accusing you of being a facebook agent?
    Like I really thought facebook would take action by sending a random dude on namepros to debate people who registered Libra names?


    Really?

    really?

    giphy (4).gif
     
  19. Internet.Domains

    Internet.Domains Top Member VIP

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    When you can't debate the facts just call them "ridiculous points" by "dumb schmucks."
     
  20. Internet.Domains

    Internet.Domains Top Member VIP

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    Here is an interesting related article and could be a possible scenario:

    "When Magellan Capital filed their trademark application they were attempting to trademark the word “Bitcoin” in the class of “[f]inancial services, namely, providing a virtual currency for use by members of an on-line community via a global computer network.” (emphasis added). Practically speaking, that means that Magellan, if they had been successful, would have had the trademark on essentially any use of the Bitcoin network, since Bitcoin is essentially a virtual currency used by members of an online community via a global network. Thinking about the current cryptocurrency space, who provides this virtual currency? Wallets, exchanges, miners, and so on. You can see why this would be a big deal.

    What happened? Well, Magellan abandoned their trademark application. Why would they do that? This should come as no surprise, but there was a public outcry when the Bitcoin community found out about the trademark application. Presumably, those at Magellan decided that it was not worth continuing to pursue the mark, so they filed an express abandonment with the USPTO, and that was that.

    One of the promises of crypto is that it is Leaderless™ and Decentralized™. That’s not strictly true, and those concepts are more properly thought of as existing on a spectrum. What is undeniable, is that there are vocal communities that can wield tremendous influence over the “brand” that surrounds these coins. That was true in 2011, and it is still true to this day."

    Source:
    https://www.theblockcrypto.com/2019/04/27/bitcoin-tm-application-abandoned/
     
  21. artstar

    artstar Restricted

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    good info but the naysayers will of course say Libra isnt bitcoin blah blah blah. im quite sure there will be tm issues in certain cases when libra comes out in 2020 but i doubt it will be as big a deal as some of np so called experts think it will be and im talking about some of these self entitled, self absorbed, self important lawyers, included in the mix of EXPERTS (yea right), who think they know it all.

    ps note that they r human (or not lol) and make errors like anyone else. many people think that what they believe is in fact reality when its usually some defacto made up reality based on what they have deduced from prior instances that have no correlation to the actual facts.

    in short we know squat what will happen until it comes about, so either u reg libra or u dont who cares? its your $ do what u will!

    btw bookmark this post and lets see who is sued by the libra group in 2020 if any cause i sure am looking forward to see what the outcome is.
     
  22. Ategy.com

    Ategy.com NameCult.com Gold Account VIP

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    Sigh .. You guys know that @jberryhill isn't an expert on the subject .. he's THE expert. Go google John Berryhill .. you'll see he's EXTREMELY experienced in intellectual property issues .. as well as such issues specifically related to domains and UDRPs! You all should be EXTREMELY grateful for his participation here .. he's given a couple thousand dollars worth of professional advice in this thread alone.


    Even if they do allow and approve associated projects .. what you guys don't seem to get is that has NOTHING to do with trademarks. Even if for example .. they are permitted to make a Libra based casino, because of copyright laws, they still will NOT be allowed to call themselves "LibraCasino" without getting explicit and written permission from the Libra Foundation .. which they will never get (even if the foundation approves their app).

    Go google all the sites that include "Wordpress". I think it's probably a very good example of what's likely to happen. Wordpress is very encouraging of people making add-ons and such. But they are extremely protective of ANY use of "WordPress" that isn't explicitly controlled by them.


    @Internet.Domains .. a few times you've mentioned things could change based on if they go decentralised .. but like with WordPress .. how the blockchain is shared or operated isn't linked to the trademark. The only reason there is no trademark for Bitcoin is because nobody owns it .. it grow unclaimed in the public domain. A much more relevant comparison here would be WordPress.

    One would argue that if Libra eventually goes decentralised, then they would actually be even more protective of the trademark to minimise fraud.

    Finally .. you are correct in that the governments could indeed stop Libra in it's tracks when it starts (I actually think there's a good chance of that if it looks like it will impact standard government currency) .. but again .. that doesn't have anything to do with the trademarks .. beyond that it doesn't really matter because the minute the governments do put a stop to it .. all those domains are worthless anyhow.


    Finally .. there is a HUGE difference between:
    1- The Libra Foundation being OK with Libra based apps and services ..
    2- The Libra Foundation being OK with external companies using the mark "Libra" within their name so as to appear to be officially part of or affiliated with the Libra Foundation.

    1- The Libra Foundation being OK with Libra based apps and services ..
    #1 is possible ... and given all the privacy, "Big Brother" and "too strong a monopoly" issues FB is facing, I think that if Libra actually does get past government issues that they will be quite open to outside involvement.

    2- The Libra Foundation being OK with external companies using the mark "Libra" within their name so as to appear to be officially part of or affiliated with the Libra Foundation.
    #2 is just never going to happen with maybe an extremely small number of exceptions that are more likely to be spun-out services by the foundation itself (who will likely actively go after the domains FAR in advance).

    What's even worse for people with Libra crypto related domains, is that in order for a trademark to keep it's legitimacy, the owner actually needs to actively defend it in the long term .. so eventually if there are offenders, they actually have to go after them!


    Anyhow .. thanks @jberryhill for your contribution to this thread! Some truly outstanding and relevant information! (Particularly the stuff about using international tricks to get retroactive dating). :)
     
  23. neyoweb

    neyoweb Established Member

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    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
  24. Internet.Domains

    Internet.Domains Top Member VIP

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    There are so many possible scenarios with this roll out. The issues are massive and have depth thats never been explored. Trying to give Libra a cookie cutter approach is unjust and unwarranted.

    To think we haven't even yet debated the possibility of the term Libra being, or becoming, generic in cryptocurrency. :xf.grin:
     
  25. Ategy.com

    Ategy.com NameCult.com Gold Account VIP

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    Honestly .. it's a big deal. The technical/legal certainly could play out many many ways ... but again .. not the trademark. In fact .. after seeing that TechCrunch primer, I'd give it a little more of a chance of making it (since it will actually have a reserve, unlike most other cryptos .. it's actually completely different in that regard to some degree) .. but it also actually made me even more sure that they will even more vigourously enforce the trademark.
     

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